Of Organ Grinders and Worship Bands
Mavis Grind
Shipmate
I was just saying in another place that in seeking a church to attend I am a sucker for a well-maintained and well-played organ along with a good tradition of liturgical music. Conversely, I said, if I enter a church and see a guitar or a drum kit (or both) at the front I am minded to make a hasty exit. Apart from anything else I do think there's something very wholesomely early-60s about a "worship band", whereas a good organ-centred service is timeless. But each to her own of course.
[Also, not to put too fine a point on it, as a Queer – for want of any more satisfactory label – person I have discerned a strong correlation between the use of worship bands and hostility towards the LGBTQ+ community, although at this moment I wouldn't want to press that too hard]
What is the general view among shipmates? What are the advantages and disadvantages of formal and informal worship and which to others prefer?
[Also, not to put too fine a point on it, as a Queer – for want of any more satisfactory label – person I have discerned a strong correlation between the use of worship bands and hostility towards the LGBTQ+ community, although at this moment I wouldn't want to press that too hard]
What is the general view among shipmates? What are the advantages and disadvantages of formal and informal worship and which to others prefer?
Comments
My music collection runs from Steeleye to Metallica via Fairport and Tull, so you might expect I'd fall in with the worship band end. But the truth is I react in much the same way to you to the sight of guitars and drums at the front of the church.
Your paragraph in square parentheses is actually core to this. I'm not personally affected by regressive views on sexuality, but I'm an ex-Evangelical, ex-Charismatic and for me worship bands are inextricably linked with conservative theology from the Evos* and the writing of cheques in the name of God by the Charismatics* which bounced when I came to cash them in. I start twitching when someone decides to use Be still for the presence of the Lord as a communion hymn in an otherwise liturgical and hymns and organ service; it's too associated with people holding quivering hands over emotionally distressed people muttering prayers over them, often in tongues. Or so it was said. I often had my doubts.
So I end up with liturgy and traditional music by default really. It doesn't actually float my boat particularly, but I suspect my boat is badly holed below the waterline anyway. Aesthetically I like performing almost any style so you tend to find me in the choir. Ironically, if by some strange quirk of fate you did find me in a guitar and drums church, I'd survive it by being one of the people with a guitar hung around my neck. It's unlikely to happen. And it's unlikely my survival strategy would last long, although it does provide a defence against being expected to stick my hands in the air.
*Not automatically the same people, I know, but the ones I encountered were.
There is much more to a service than the music.
My background is similar to KarlLB's but I've moved from happy clappy to bells and smells and am now Orthodox.
Now I've settled, I tend to be less critical of my former affiliations and modus operandi than I was during my lengthy transition period. I sat on the fence so long I lost all feeling in my backside.
These days, I think 'each to their own' and if people want to do drum and bass that's up to them.
I will say, though, that so-called 'informal worship' is often far less spontaneous and far more programmed than its practitioners imagine it to be.
I've not been to a 'worship band' led service for a good while. I wouldn't object to it particularly but it no longer floats my boat. If it floats other people's then fair enough.
It's never been part of the English tradition that we'd expect the congregation to sing in parts - that's the choir's job. Ability to read music is not something that's ever been widespread either, IME.
I'd be far more likely to hear people in the congregation harmonising in a worship band led service.
That said, I’m quite happy for a guitar, or even a mandolin or banjo or fiddle, to be used when appropriate to the music. Ditto conga drums or djembes.
And I’m very happy for the praise bands and praise music to be there for those who do like them.
I Was Full Of Joy
They Will Know We Are Christians By Our Love
The Spirit Is A Movin' All Over This Land
While the first one is directly taken from a Psalm, they all somehow evoke the feeling and imagery(granted, via subjective impressions) of the early xtian church.
And while they all work as stand-alone tunes, they also, unfortunately, have a correlative connection in my mind with dreary, unpleasant services. One problem, I think, with the folk-mass was that the people in the pews often didn't quite understand the vibe, if you will, that the music was going for(*).
The Unitarian church I attend now has a guitarist, a pianist, and a choir, plus music from the internet. The songs range from what I'd call standard hymns from roughly the late 19th to late-20th centuries, plus pop songs that are familiar and user-friendly to the majority of worshippers, eg. Here Comes The Sun.
(*) For example, suburban Catholics singing an African American spiritual, when I'm pretty sure very few of them had any idea how the genre was generally supposed to sound. I experienced this more than a few times, and it was absolutely painful.
I'm in two minds as to how much of a problem this is. There is a cultural appropriation question, of course, but apart from that does it matter if it doesn't sound how it originally did? Consider how many different ways Amazing Grace gets sung - even between England and Scotland the rather plunky version of NEW BRITAIN I grew up with is very different from the slower, twiddlier arrangement (which has at least half an eye on the pipes) that I've become familiar with since migrating north. I've heard other versions from (if memory serves) rural Virginia that are probably closer to the "original" but as different again from both those with which I'm familiar.
When I use "Were you there when they crucified my Lord?" split across Good Friday and Easter Sunday with my lily-white congregation I don't think the poignancy is obliterated because I sing like the overgrown English choirboy that I am. My attempting to sound like a Gospel singer would be far, far worse in my view. I think there is more of an issue when the lyrics of the Spiritual speak particularly to the culture shaped by enslavement and racism - Swing low, sweet chariot for example - and it is used by those of us far outside that culture.
I would rather have a couple of decent guitarists playing simpler music well, than an organ and choir over-reaching themselves and setting my teeth on edge.
I simply cannot abide music badly done in Church. It is unworthy. Style etc are totally secondary.
Oh yes indeed.
Unfortunately it's not that simple as most of the contemporary instruments music (guitars etc.) comes from a particular narrow theological band. You'd have to spend hours tweaking stuff to make many of the lyrics appropriate for a non-evangelical community.
There have been attempts to create broader contemporary stuff but it's always been a bit of a damp squib (Dance on Injustice songbook springs to mind)
There is a stack of RC stuff for guitars etc.
How much of it requires the Singing Nun of legend?
Hahaha.
It varies in difficulty and depth of thought.
Volunteer Two is also happy to play either instrument, but has a much greater background in classical music (Volunteer One comes from an *Open Evangelical* tradition). Volunteer Two is Dutch, and therefore from a country with a very long and distinguished history of organs, and composers of organ music.
We have in the past had Taize services, with instruments played by the Vicar of our neighbouring parish (flute) and her husband (classical guitar). Those days are gone
Those who choose the hymns for Our Place's Sunday Mass do seem to be quite good at selecting a wide variety, accompanied by piano or organ as most appropriate. Having recently watched online videos of *folksy* sort of services from Foreign Parts (Norway/Denmark/Sweden), I rather like the sound of fiddle/guitar and accordion in church...and there are, of course, English hymns and songs that really lend themselves to this sort of thing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvMwOKFfa6Y
Praise ye the LORD. Praise God in his sanctuary: praise him in the firmament of his power.
Praise him for his mighty acts: praise him according to his excellent greatness.
Praise him with the sound of the trumpet: praise him with the psaltery and harp.
Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs.
Praise him upon the loud cymbals: praise him upon the high sounding cymbals.
Let every thing that hath breath praise the LORD. Praise ye the LORD.
Psalm 150
Praise the Lord!
Praise God in his sanctuary;
praise him in the sky, which testifies to his strength!
2 Praise him for his mighty acts;
praise him for his surpassing greatness!
3 Praise him with the blast of the horn;
praise him with the lyre and the harp!
4 Praise him with the tambourine and with dancing;
praise him with stringed instruments and the flute!
5 Praise him with loud cymbals;
praise him with clanging cymbals!
6 Let everything that has breath praise the Lord!
Praise the Lord!
Notice how the KJV translators just had to include "organ." I think the Hebrew word literally means "pipe."
Regardless, I think any instrument can be used in the Lord's Service--even the didgeridoo
I know I like SATB, four part harmonies, which I grew up with, but I can go with some praise songs.
At this point in our church year, my congregation is using a liturgy that has an Arabic flavor, but we throw in African Drums. It comes out very well. We currently have a student from Tanzania who says the music is very much like the liturgy they use in his home.
I wonder what the heavenly orchestra sounds like.
"With harps and with viols, there stand a great throng
in the presence of Jesus, and sing this new song:
'Unto Him who hath loved us and washed us from sin,
unto Him be the glory forever. Amen!'"
The Hebrew denotes a hollow bored instrument, maybe a reed pipe, or a group of such into something like pan-pipes. The KJV translators were probably following the lead of the Septuagint or the Vulgate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiNbLm7AUPI
I'm not sure what instrument is being played (a lute, perhaps?), but this would sound wonderful as the Psalm (between OT and NT readings) at Mass.
The comparison with different versions of Anazing Grace doesn't work for me, and as the one who heard with his own ears the performance in question, I am tempted to pull rank here. But since that's not gonna convince anyone...
I think the transfer of the same song from one part of the British Isles to another is a little more..."organic", let's say, and involves mostly most word-of-mouth, and, most importantly SOUND of mouth.
But in the case of my church, most of the people had probably never heard an authentic African American spiritual before(outside of mass-media popularizations(*), and they likely did not in any way connect it to what they were singing from the hymnal.
Now. THE BATTLE HYMN OF THE REPUBLIC, there is a song that can be sung pretty much by anyone and sound great, or at least enjoyable. But most people in my parish probably already heard that, either in the media, schoolyard parodies etc. Plus, the tune on its own is pretty user friendly.
(*) eg. the theme from Maude, which is actually pretty good.
The comparison with different versions of Anazing Grace doesn't work for me, and as the one who heard with his own ears the performance in question, I am tempted to pull rank here. But since that's not gonna convince anyone...
I think the transfer of the same song from one part of the British Isles to another is a little more..."organic", let's say, and involves mostly most word-of-mouth, and, most importantly SOUND of mouth.
But in the case of my church, most of the people had probably never heard an authentic African American spiritual before(outside of mass-media popularizations(*), and they likely did not in any way connect it to what they were singing from the hymnal.
Now. THE BATTLE HYMN OF THE REPUBLIC, there is a song that can be sung pretty much by anyone and sound great, or at least enjoyable. But most people in my parish probably already heard that, either in the media, schoolyard parodies etc. Plus, the tune on its own is pretty user friendly.
(*) eg. the theme from Maude, which is actually pretty good.
Not that it wouldn't be a good topic, but a little too complicated for my tastes right now, and it definitely puts us in epiphanic territory.
That's fair, though I'm honestly not sure what the mode of transfer would have been in different cases. I don't know when the practice of learning from a hymn book (even if it's only organist and minister who then teach the congregation by ear) became common.
b) a service of thanksgiving in church in a few weeks time. Classical music and “ strong” hymns will be my choice, with maybe some Taizé. I will need to give clear orders to the tech guy that Mr Puzzler would not want any “ worship songs” or “praise music” of any sort before and after the service. Nor do I.
But each to their own.
https://hymnsocietygbi.org.uk/1972/09/treasure-no-37-two-notes-from-scotland-1-amazing-grace/
About 30 years ago the master of music of our local cathedral asked me to arrange some spirituals for unaccompanied choir for a Good Friday evening meditation service. I spent a good number of hours on the project only to have it cancelled after representations from the local Afro-Caribbean community who didn't want their music appropriated in that way. That was the first time I had come across that way of thinking.
Of course it works the other way too, where music of European heritage has been imposed on people of other cultures by churches in their worship. I have had several discussions on-line with traddie RC types who are completely blind to the issue and want everyone to sing Gregorian Chant from China to the Amazon. Inculturalisation of the liturgy has barely got off the ground.
Of course you could go down the road of removing everything that might be difficult for some people and make the service totally bland. Many do go down that road, of course, and the result is in itself a stumbling block for me. As Jesus once said, and I agree with him¹, worship isn't meant to be easy.
¹ This is a very old Quaker joke.
A recent Welsh National Opera performance of "Blaze of Glory", a semi-musical all about the trials and tribulations of a Welsh choir, ended with both chorus and audience singing "Arglwydd Dyma Fi " ... which is actually a translation of an American hymn!
See https://wno.org.uk/whats-on/blaze-of-glory - and you can still catch it at Birmingham and Southamption.
Of course you could go down the road of removing everything that might be difficult for some people and make the service totally bland. Many do go down that road, of course, and the result is in itself a stumbling block for me. As Jesus once said, and I agree with him¹, worship isn't meant to be easy.
¹ This is a very old Quaker joke.
The implications of a predominantly white congregation singing African American spirituals, which come out of experiences of enslavement and racism, is an interesting and complex issue that we have actually spent some time talking about in my congregation. I think it likely is a topic for Epiphanies. As part of the conversation at my church, I spent some time pulling together some resources on the subject, so perhaps I’ll see if I can come up with an appropriate OP for Epiphanies. For now, I’ll simply note this article that highlights at least one of the issues—royalties—and how the publisher of our denominational hymnal is dealing with it.
I will also say it’s likely an understatement to say that I was dumbfounded when I first learned—on the Ship, I think—how “Swing Low, Sweet Chariot” is used in English rugby.
Tippett was drawing illuminating parallels between the oppression of the Jews with that of the slaves, as the slaves themselves did when they used Exodus themes in their worship.
That's a whole nother thing from using spirituals to get a nice glow and a bit of sadness.
We also sometimes sing songs with African words but we have a very international congregation and it is done alongside consultation with African members of the church, who teach us the meanings of the words.
Fair enough about my probably slapdash(and embarassingly so) classifications. However...
Looking at a list of African American Spurituals, even Sometimes I Feel Like A Motherless Child, or even a more popular song with its same trappings, is something NOT many people in that parish woulda had any familarity with.
(Though I suppose Michael Row The Boat Ashore is one that they'd all have known, but via 1960s folk music, and not in a way that would instruct them in how Were You There was broadly supposed to sound.)
We are very fortunate in that we are able to have multiple services with different styles. Our first morning service has traditional hymns with organ. The mid morning family service has a mix, one children's song (with or without actions), two or three "modern" (i.e. late C20th / C21st) praise songs and a traditional hymn to finish. Music provided by a small band and usually an organist, not only for the final hymn but also part of the band - often just providing the base notes. The evening service has a band and often includes truly modern praise songs only a couple of years old.
To the issue of cultural appropriation, take Jazz. It is a combination of African Rhythms with European Harmonic Structure. It was developed originally by African Americans, but by late 20s whites began to embrace it, especially the swing style. It came out of the Byou and has evolved to a number of local styles using instruments that also come from a mix of cultures.
To use the above arguments against cultural appropriation, one would have to say Jazz should not have been allowed to develop.
For that matter, much of our music comes from African American tradition: jazz, blues, country, bluegrass, rock, rock and roll, R&B, pop, hip hop, soul, funk, gospel, disco, ragtime, doo-wop, just to name a few.
Other music styles come from other traditions.
Do we give them all up?
You'd be lucky.
After all, Miles Davis had no problem having Bill Evans and John McLoughlin as his sidemen.