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Heaven: 2021 Proof Americans and Brits speak a different language

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  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    Rossweisse, I can't recall the last time I saw the orchestra in white tie.

    When I started at the Bar, required dress in superior courts was wing collar and bibs under that. The bib tied at the back, so was difficult. Then came the invention of velcro, and at the same time jabots came on the scene. Out with wing collar and bib, in with velcro-secured jabots. Some jabots were extremely frilly indeed, excessively so.
  • Nick Tamen wrote: »
    I am reminded of the prominent local lawyer who never wore a short-sleeved shirt and dressed as you describe with sleeves rolled up. He did this because he didn’t want people to see the tattoo he got while in the navy and later regretted. People didn’t see the tattoo, but they regularly wondered why in the world he had a long-sleeves shirt on.

    And usually, when you see arms that are fully tattooed, the tattoos end where the edge of the cuff of a long sleeve.
  • Indeed. My children tell me that a full arm tattoo is known as a Sleeve.
  • Right, but the tattoo in question wasn’t a sleeve. It was a tattoo on the upper arm, gotten in the navy in the 1950s. A short sleeve might cover it, but with movement it might not.

  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    edited November 2019
    Here is an article that says Appalachian English is closest to Elizabethan I English.
  • RossweisseRossweisse Hell Host, 8th Day Host, Glory
    I'd say more like 17th century English. But it's an interesting piece.

    The dialect of the Gullah people of the Carolinian-Georgia barrier islands is an interesting mix of antique English, Scottish dialect, and various African languages.
  • Rossweisse wrote: »
    I'd say more like 17th century English. But it's an interesting piece.

    The dialect of the Gullah people of the Carolinian-Georgia barrier islands is an interesting mix of antique English, Scottish dialect, and various African languages.

    And very endangered, sadly.
  • that's a bummer or a real bummer was a common enough phrase around here even in the 50s.Haven't read everything on this thread but has anyone mentioned the Scottish expression 'heid bummer' ? as in' he's the heid bummer' (he is the top man who gives the orders)
  • mousethief wrote: »
    Rossweisse wrote: »
    I'd say more like 17th century English. But it's an interesting piece.

    The dialect of the Gullah people of the Carolinian-Georgia barrier islands is an interesting mix of antique English, Scottish dialect, and various African languages.

    And very endangered, sadly.
    Both the Gullan dialect and the old Appalachian dialect are very endangered, I’m afraid, as is the "high tider" brogue of the NC Outer Banks.

  • I read an article some while back which said the Gullah are being forced out of their homes by real estate developers. They scatter into the hinterlands (the Gullah not the r.e.d.), breaking up their language community and ensuring the rapid death of their language/dialect.
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    edited December 2019
    Given what's been happening all along the Carolinas-Georgia-Florida coast for the last several decades, I wouldn't be at all surprised. It's beyond sad.
  • Wet Kipper wrote: »

    I went to a school for forces children, and can remember the time when "short sleeved order" was called (presumably co-inciding with the same for the soldiers/air force ) and that was when the school uniform permitted the wearing of short sleeves.

    You reminded me that that happened in my school; it meant ties off too, and was the only time we were meant to take our jackets off while eating. I never got the hang of that - it seemed so natural to hang your jacket on the back of your chair and roll your sleeves up so as not to get them in your gravy (or sponge-and-custard).
  • RossweisseRossweisse Hell Host, 8th Day Host, Glory
    mousethief wrote: »
    I read an article some while back which said the Gullah are being forced out of their homes by real estate developers. They scatter into the hinterlands (the Gullah not the r.e.d.), breaking up their language community and ensuring the rapid death of their language/dialect.
    My late uncle, who grew up and spent his adult life in Charleston, spoke fluent Gullah. I always found it fascinating. It will be a major cultural loss when it dies out.

  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate, Glory
    Re ties between Appalachian English (and that of other remote places) and Elizabethan (and other old forms):

    Back in the '70s, IIRC, country singer Mel Tillis was on a TV talk show. He brought this up. Unfortunately, the other people on stage didn't believe him.

    That stuck with me, for some reason. Maybe because I like languages. Maybe because I like (seemingly) odd little connections like that.

    Catherine Marshall's beloved novel, Christy, had characters living in the mountains of the Southern US. (Might not have been Appalachians.) They also spoke in ways that had very old connections. Christy may've opened more eyes than Mel did.
  • Leorning CnihtLeorning Cniht Shipmate
    edited December 2019
    You reminded me that that happened in my school; it meant ties off too, and was the only time we were meant to take our jackets off while eating. I never got the hang of that - it seemed so natural to hang your jacket on the back of your chair and roll your sleeves up so as not to get them in your gravy (or sponge-and-custard).

    Chair? We had benches - there's nowhere to hang your clothes on a bench!
  • You reminded me that that happened in my school; it meant ties off too, and was the only time we were meant to take our jackets off while eating. I never got the hang of that - it seemed so natural to hang your jacket on the back of your chair and roll your sleeves up so as not to get them in your gravy (or sponge-and-custard).

    Chair? We had benches - there's nowhere to hang your clothes on a bench!

    Ah, what we would have given for a bench. We sat on rough boulders, and liked it.

    </monty python>
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate, Glory
    "Sat"? We only stood...or walked...or ran.

    {Muttering: Lazy kids. Get off my lawn!}
  • Robert ArminRobert Armin Shipmate, Glory
    You stood? You had LEGS?!
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    edited December 2019
    Golden Key wrote: »
    "Sat"? We only stood...or walked...or ran.

    {Muttering: Lazy kids. Get off my lawn!}

    In my neck of the woods, you may have gotten shot with rock salt if you did not get of the lawn.

    Yes, they had shotgun shells loaded with rock salt. Stung like the dickens
  • KarlLB wrote: »
    Pigwidgeon wrote: »
    Wet Kipper wrote: »
    I'd imagine if you are a pilot, police officer or prison officer, or in the armed forces there are times of the year when your uniform consists of a tie and and short-sleeved shirt.

    A recent Chief of Police in Phoenix, Arizona decreed that his uniformed officers wear long-sleeved shirts all year. In Phoenix -- where the summer temperature can go as high as 122F (50C). He was not popular.

    What is with people like this? Are they stupid, sadistic, or what?
    In very intense sunlight I frequently wear long sleeves. Better than sun guck (which is one of the names for sunscreen lotion).
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate, Glory
    NP--

    "Guck", rather than "gunk" (US)?

    Thx.
  • edited December 2019
    Yes, guck. Because it is liquidy. Gunk is more like the dirt under your fingernails, not a liquid. Though when you open a crab up by taking off its head shell, there is a mix of what the crab has been eating, partly digested inside it and between the gills and in the body cavity. It is apparently more properly called "tamale" I think, but we called it "gunk" which my father claimed was from New Brunswick in the 1950s. It's quite tasty actually.

    While leads me to greeblies which are things that float in your drink that shouldn't be there.
  • Gramps49 wrote: »
    Golden Key wrote: »
    "Sat"? We only stood...or walked...or ran.

    {Muttering: Lazy kids. Get off my lawn!}

    In my neck of the woods, you may have gotten shot with rock salt if you did not get of the lawn.

    Yes, they had shotgun shells loaded with rock salt. Stung like the dickens

    Amazing how we blithely used to accept physical violence against children isn't it?

  • While leads me to greeblies which are things that float in your drink that shouldn't be there.

    Those are "floaters" - especially when referring to saliva left behind from someone with whom you have shared your drink

    person A : Cavva swally o yer ginger, pal ?
    Person B : Aye, nae floaters, mind!

    (and in the spirit of the Ship's rule of using English translations

    Person A: I say, old chap, might I be able to consume some of your carbonated beverage ?
    Person B: why of course, but do be careful not to contaminate it with excess saliva!
  • Coud someone please explain to a confused elderly Brit: What is a Ball Park? and Where is Left Field? I'm stumped!
  • Eirenist wrote: »
    Coud someone please explain to a confused elderly Brit: What is a Ball Park? and Where is Left Field? I'm stumped!
    A ballpark is a field or stadium where baseball is played. Left field is the left side of the field from the perspective of a batter facing the pitcher’s mound, particularly the area beyond third base. This article might help that all make sense, but I offer no guarantees.

    To “hit it out of the park” literally means for a batter to score a home run by hitting the ball beyond the edge of the park, so that it can’t be caught. Figuratively, it means to do something really, really well.

    To say that something “came out of left field” means it was unexpected, odd or strange—something you didn’t see coming.
  • edited December 2019
    Wet Kipper wrote: »

    While leads me to greeblies which are things that float in your drink that shouldn't be there.

    Those are "floaters" - especially when referring to saliva left behind from someone with whom you have shared your drink

    person A : Cavva swally o yer ginger, pal ?
    Person B : Aye, nae floaters, mind!

    (and in the spirit of the Ship's rule of using English translations

    Person A: I say, old chap, might I be able to consume some of your carbonated beverage ?
    Person B: why of course, but do be careful not to contaminate it with excess saliva!
    The saliva thing is "back wash". Greeblies are not that.

    It would be said here:

    Person A: can I have a sip of your pop? (you might hear bud or man for pal, but probably not)
    Person B: okay, no back wash though!
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    Eirenist wrote: »
    Coud someone please explain to a confused elderly Brit: What is a Ball Park? and Where is Left Field? I'm stumped!

    No stumps in baseball, you're talking of another game.
  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    Nick Tamen wrote: »
    ... This article might help that all make sense, but I offer no guarantees. ...
    And people claim cricket is mysterious.

  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate, Glory
    TBH, I don't understand (cross Pond) how anyone wields a seemingly unwieldy cricket bat--especially with such a short handle.

    And yes, I know it's used differently than in baseball.
  • A cricket bat can be wielded as a sword or a shield - to attack the ball or to defect it.

    On another topic, as an ex-legal person, may I point out that in this country, judges do not 'hand down' decisions, they deliver judgments and pass sentences. And in a trial, evdence is given from a witness box, not a witness stand, while the accused sits or stands in the dock. Even our journalists, these days, tend to use Americanese, much to the disgust of the legal profession.
  • Sorry, that should have read 'deflect'.
  • Golden Key wrote: »
    TBH, I don't understand (cross Pond) how anyone wields a seemingly unwieldy cricket bat--especially with such a short handle.

    And yes, I know it's used differently than in baseball.
    While on this side of The Pond many of us don't understand why you have grown men playing a version of a game that over here is played by girls, especially those under 12.

    As for a cricket bat being "unwieldy"!!! You have a large, flattish surface to hit a big, shiny red ball: as people on the West side of The Pond might say "what's not to like?" It certainly beats trying to hit a small, grey ball with a round, elongated wooden milk bottle such as this.


  • Golden Key wrote: »
    TBH, I don't understand (cross Pond) how anyone wields a seemingly unwieldy cricket bat--especially with such a short handle.

    And yes, I know it's used differently than in baseball.
    While on this side of The Pond many of us don't understand why you have grown men playing a version of a game that over here is played by girls, especially those under 12.

    As for a cricket bat being "unwieldy"!!! You have a large, flattish surface to hit a big, shiny red ball: as people on the West side of The Pond might say "what's not to like?" It certainly beats trying to hit a small, grey ball with a round, elongated wooden milk bottle such as this.


    Indeed. Rounders (as we call it; it's essentially the same thing) is an almost impossible game to play for that reason. In my experience only the most athletic can actually hit the ball; I certainly never managed it.
  • I could never mange to hit the ball in rounders either: did mange to whack a teacher with the bat though. He was off work for the rest of the week 😁
  • Enoch wrote: »
    Nick Tamen wrote: »
    ... This article might help that all make sense, but I offer no guarantees. ...
    And people claim cricket is mysterious.
    My experience leads me to believe that baseball and cricket are mutually mysterious.

  • LydaLyda Shipmate
    KarlLB wrote: »
    Golden Key wrote: »
    TBH, I don't understand (cross Pond) how anyone wields a seemingly unwieldy cricket bat--especially with such a short handle.

    And yes, I know it's used differently than in baseball.
    While on this side of The Pond many of us don't understand why you have grown men playing a version of a game that over here is played by girls, especially those under 12.

    As for a cricket bat being "unwieldy"!!! You have a large, flattish surface to hit a big, shiny red ball: as people on the West side of The Pond might say "what's not to like?" It certainly beats trying to hit a small, grey ball with a round, elongated wooden milk bottle such as this.


    Indeed. Rounders (as we call it; it's essentially the same thing) is an almost impossible game to play for that reason. In my experience only the most athletic can actually hit the ball; I certainly never managed it.

    Is that why girls play it?
  • Lyda wrote: »
    KarlLB wrote: »
    Golden Key wrote: »
    TBH, I don't understand (cross Pond) how anyone wields a seemingly unwieldy cricket bat--especially with such a short handle.

    And yes, I know it's used differently than in baseball.
    While on this side of The Pond many of us don't understand why you have grown men playing a version of a game that over here is played by girls, especially those under 12.

    As for a cricket bat being "unwieldy"!!! You have a large, flattish surface to hit a big, shiny red ball: as people on the West side of The Pond might say "what's not to like?" It certainly beats trying to hit a small, grey ball with a round, elongated wooden milk bottle such as this.


    Indeed. Rounders (as we call it; it's essentially the same thing) is an almost impossible game to play for that reason. In my experience only the most athletic can actually hit the ball; I certainly never managed it.

    Is that why girls play it?

    I have no idea. I never thought of it as a girls' game; it was more offered to the less sporty or e.g. cub and brownie packs as a fun activity; why I don't know considering how incredibly difficult it is to actually play.
  • In my yoof we didn't have a bat for rounders - we used the flat of our hands - usually with a tennis ball or something like that.
  • Penny SPenny S Shipmate
    edited December 2019
    Having been the one always chosen last for the rounders teams, I am incredibly impressed by people who can not only hit a baseball with a bat which is narrower than a rounders bat, but make it go where they want it to go.
    And when teaching, with the year group I worked with, I started them off with the flat of the hand and a tennis ball. They got on to the bats at a greater age.
  • Penny SPenny S Shipmate
    edited December 2019
    I have only recently had time to spend on this thread, which I have enjoyed tremendously. But it has meant that where I have thought "Oh, I could post that", I haven't been able to, because it is months past when the subject was raised.
    However, something reminded me of my Grandad, who spoke good Sussex, a type of speech now seldom heard, since Sussex has become a dormitory for London. He had a book on the hymenoptera, which he pronounced as "Aunts, Bees and Wassps.
    And something else reminded me of a book by Diana Wynne Jones, called "Archer's Goon", which was made into a TV programme, and which I therefore bought for my class book corner. To my horror, though it is set in a British environment, it was full not only of American spellings, but American usages, and I had to go through with Tippex and a very fine pen getting rid of tires, trunks, sidewalks, curbs and similar things not suited to a British educational environment.
  • DafydDafyd Hell Host
    Wynne Jones was a UK author. Had you got a US edition?
  • While on this side of The Pond many of us don't understand why you have grown men playing a version of a game that over here is played by girls, especially those under 12.

    Because (a) it's fun, and (b) we're not sexist shits?
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate, Glory
    And c) it's a deep part of our US mythos. (See the film "Field Of Dreams". Really good.)
  • I know Wynne Jones was UK. And the publisher was UK. Goodness knows why they had sent out to UK bookshops something so blatantly US.
    I did get hold of a US edition of the book called in the UK "Wilkin's Tooth", for comparison. In Wilkin's Tooth, the swearing of some of the children was shown by using colour words, such as blue, indigo, purple. In "Witch's Business", the US version, it was shown by using offal words such as liver, stomach - can't remember exactly. This meant that when the author had described the air turning blue as the gang came down the road, which was left for the US, it didn't work nearly as well as in the UK edition, where it is an expression which has been used more generally.
  • Robert ArminRobert Armin Shipmate, Glory
    This happens a lot on Kindle, and annoys me. Narnia with American spellings? Pass me my sal volatile!
  • Because I have read a lot of science texts, spelling sometimes pass me by - color, traveler and such like. But terminology doesn't.
    After the Archer's Goon episode, I had a look at some American authors in books available over here, and found that they had been adapted for us. I can't remember why Judy Blume referred to aluminium, but she did, not aluminum.
    (That was supposed to be a quid pro quo in sorting out science terms, so we switched to sulfur, but the corresponding change was not done, so I understand.)
  • When the Harry Potter books were first being published I ordered all of mine from England. No one was going to make Americans of us residents of Hogwarts.

    (Well, of course I had them delivered by fellow mail owls!)
  • In Canada the publisher of Harry Potter books was Raincoast. A Canadian publishing house. The general understanding is that we didn't get Americanized editions.
  • If the first book was Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone, it was the original. If it was Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone it was the American edition.
    :angry:
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