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Heaven: 2021 Proof Americans and Brits speak a different language

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  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    edited October 2020
    'An haitch' is quite widespread round here, but is widely also regarded as incorrect. I hear both 'glǎ-see- ǝ' and 'glay-see-ǝ' here, with a slight preponderance of the former and would regard either as correct. I don't think I've ever heard 'glah-see-ur' and would probably notice as it would sound very affected.

    I can't comment on 'absurd' as I don't know what's normal in Canada. I think the first syllable here is usually a ǝb with the emphasis on the 'surd'.

  • "Glay-shur" here. Yeah, yeah, go ahead and laugh...
  • That’s what I heard in Alaska as well. Heard it so often that now I have to remember not to say it myself (and it was nearly 30 years since I spent a few months there). Hereabouts it is Glah-see-ir.
  • "Glay-shur" here. Yeah, yeah, go ahead and laugh...
    I'm not sure I've ever heard anything other than GLAY-shur or GLAY-zhur, which Merriam-Webster gives as the two primary (and certainly American) pronunciations. M-W does also note the three-syllable pronunciation as British, but I think pronouncing it as "glay-see-ur" would be heard as affected here.

  • Nick Tamen wrote: »
    I'm not sure I've ever heard anything other than GLAY-shur or GLAY-zhur, which Merriam-Webster gives as the two primary (and certainly American) pronunciations. M-W does also note the three-syllable pronunciation as British, but I think pronouncing it as "glay-see-ur" would be heard as affected here.

    How do you pronounce the occupation of a person who repairs your windows?
  • Interesting. I'm reminded of the three syllable version of diaper. We say die-per, the affected version is die-ă-per to my ears. Also cuneiform, which is kewn-ih-form, which I hear as "kewn-ay-ih-form" in some speech.

    @Lamb Chopped's glacier reminds me of the TV show "Frasier" and the word "nausea". Not sure how it gets from Fray-zur to Frājz-shur. And naw-zee-ah to nawz-shuh. (I didn't like the TV show, and I really hate being nauseated.)
  • Nick Tamen wrote: »
    I'm not sure I've ever heard anything other than GLAY-shur or GLAY-zhur, which Merriam-Webster gives as the two primary (and certainly American) pronunciations. M-W does also note the three-syllable pronunciation as British, but I think pronouncing it as "glay-see-ur" would be heard as affected here.

    How do you pronounce the occupation of a person who repairs your windows?
    The window guy?

    Seriously, I don’t think I’ve ever heard a person in real life refer to a person who does windows as a glazier. I’ve only heard Glazier used as a surname, in which case it’s pronounced GLAY-zhur.

    And yes, in these parts, Frasier and Fraser are pronounced FRAY-zhur.

  • Nick Tamen wrote: »
    Nick Tamen wrote: »
    I'm not sure I've ever heard anything other than GLAY-shur or GLAY-zhur, which Merriam-Webster gives as the two primary (and certainly American) pronunciations. M-W does also note the three-syllable pronunciation as British, but I think pronouncing it as "glay-see-ur" would be heard as affected here.

    How do you pronounce the occupation of a person who repairs your windows?
    The window guy?

    Seriously, I don’t think I’ve ever heard a person in real life refer to a person who does windows as a glazier. I’ve only heard Glazier used as a surname, in which case it’s pronounced GLAY-zhur.

    And yes, in these parts, Frasier and Fraser are pronounced FRAY-zhur.

    What if the window guy is a woman?

    Fray-zer for the latter.
  • Nick Tamen wrote: »
    Nick Tamen wrote: »
    I'm not sure I've ever heard anything other than GLAY-shur or GLAY-zhur, which Merriam-Webster gives as the two primary (and certainly American) pronunciations. M-W does also note the three-syllable pronunciation as British, but I think pronouncing it as "glay-see-ur" would be heard as affected here.

    How do you pronounce the occupation of a person who repairs your windows?
    The window guy?

    Seriously, I don’t think I’ve ever heard a person in real life refer to a person who does windows as a glazier. I’ve only heard Glazier used as a surname, in which case it’s pronounced GLAY-zhur.

    And yes, in these parts, Frasier and Fraser are pronounced FRAY-zhur.

    What if the window guy is a woman?
    The window repair person, I suppose.

  • Nick Tamen wrote: »
    I'm not sure I've ever heard anything other than GLAY-shur or GLAY-zhur, which Merriam-Webster gives as the two primary (and certainly American) pronunciations. M-W does also note the three-syllable pronunciation as British, but I think pronouncing it as "glay-see-ur" would be heard as affected here.

    How do you pronounce the occupation of a person who repairs your windows?

    "The window guy is here, darling!" :mrgreen:
  • Gee D wrote: »
    Both pronunciations are used here.

    ADD-ress for the noun only; a-DRESS for either noun or verb.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    That is the more common usage, but you do hear ADD-ress as a verb, not often ADD-ressed, though I've heard it from time to time.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    I heard someone say for the letter H, "haych" this week. Took a bit to understand. Same person said glacier as glah-see-ur. Glay-see-ur is usual. Perhaps this was merely the pronunciation of one person. Not sure but she also seemed to say "observe" for "absurd".

    "Haych" or "haitch" used be a strong indicator of a parochial Catholic school education when I was growing up.
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate, Glory
    "Haitch" = putting an "H" sound at the beginning of naming the letter "H"?

    Like saying "'Hi' is spelled 'haitch eye'"?

    Thx.
  • ah-dress with slightly more uh-dress if clothing. Very similar.

    ROBINhood is very odd to my ears. The rob is drawn out as rawb. robinHOOD is normal here.

    Continue as cunTINyou here. CONtinyou by a UK transplant priest of my acquaintance.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    More like kn-tin-you here.
  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    'Glazier' is used as a word here, and pronounced 'glay-zi-ǝ'
  • A slight tangent, but is the expression 'A good loser', as a term of mild approbation, known in the USA? Your present President, on current form, would be termed a 'bad loser' in the UK, and that is not a good thing to be here. Unsprtsmanlike!
  • Eirenist wrote: »
    A slight tangent, but is the expression 'A good loser', as a term of mild approbation, known in the USA? Your present President, on current form, would be termed a 'bad loser' in the UK, and that is not a good thing to be here. Unsprtsmanlike!
    I’m not familiar with it. We would say someone is “a sore loser,” “a good sport” or “a bad sport.”

  • A bad loser is what you would call a sore loser. I don't think I can think of another way to put a good loser. Maybe it is not an American concept.
  • BroJamesBroJames Purgatory Host
    Presumably just the opposite of a sore loser - even if there’s no name for it.
  • Given the propensity of Americans to use "loser" as an insult, it seems unlikely to me that you'd find any kind of loser being used approvingly.
  • Given the propensity of Americans to use "loser" as an insult, it seems unlikely to me that you'd find any kind of loser being used approvingly.
    Yes, as I said I think the closest American equivalent would be a good sport—someone who loses gracefully.

  • Given the propensity of Americans to use "loser" as an insult, it seems unlikely to me that you'd find any kind of loser being used approvingly.

    That’s Trump, not Americans in general. Get it right.
  • A good loser on a nice team. Which means we enjoyed playing them.
  • Item from Canada... Listened to a minister today discoursing on the subject of balms and bombs. The pronunciation of both words was the same.
  • Yes, they generally sound the same, though as I say them both, the vowel sound is more O than A in bomb. I get that it may not be heard that way by all.
  • "Bad loser" is known in Canada. (But we apologise when we win.)
  • Found this on the Book of Faces:

    In the UK, candidates just have to stand for election. In America, they have to run. Mind you, if they win, American candidates get an office - British ones only get a seat.
  • FirenzeFirenze Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    Well you need a seat after all that standing.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    edited October 2020
    Item from Canada... Listened to a minister today discoursing on the subject of balms and bombs. The pronunciation of both words was the same.

    That's weird to my ears. Balm had the ah sound, Bomb has the hot, top, wok sound. Mouth considerably more open for 'ah'.

    Balm also contains a long vowel*, bomb a short.

    *technical meaning of 'long vowel' - still a pure single vowel but long in duration, as opposed to popular meaning where what are called long vowels in English are often diphthongs.
  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    mousethief wrote: »
    Found this on the Book of Faces:

    In the UK, candidates just have to stand for election. In America, they have to run. Mind you, if they win, American candidates get an office - British ones only get a seat.
    Thinking about it,, that's correct. I hadn't noticed it before. Only the winning party that forms the government is 'in office', and the only individuals who are, are those who are some sort of minister or sub- minister. Backbenchers even of the ruling party are not.

    'Getting an office', though, as distinct from 'in office' refers to succeeding in being allocated a room or a share of one, in the House of Commons.

    Although there has been a tendency among the more ignorant journalists recently to use the word, it's quite a serious misunderstanding of Westminster type constitutions to call the MPs 'lawmakers'. Unlike the US, where the Executive is not directly answerable to the Legislature, ours is. MPs do a lot more than just pass laws.

  • KarlLB wrote: »
    Item from Canada... Listened to a minister today discoursing on the subject of balms and bombs. The pronunciation of both words was the same.

    That's weird to my ears. Balm had the ah sound, Bomb has the hot, top, wok sound. Mouth considerably more open for 'ah'.

    Balm also contains a long vowel*, bomb a short.

    *technical meaning of 'long vowel' - still a pure single vowel but long in duration, as opposed to popular meaning where what are called long vowels in English are often diphthongs.

    Regional (and perhaps class) difference in Canada. But yes, I have heard people pronounce 'balm' and 'bomb' with the vowel so descending to a schwa that they're almost indistinguishable.

    Here distinguishing long/short vowels have nothing to do with duration or being diphthongs. Here it's a phoneme question: 'note' vs 'not' -> same duration, neither a diphthong. Allowing for regional differences.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    edited October 2020
    KarlLB wrote: »
    Item from Canada... Listened to a minister today discoursing on the subject of balms and bombs. The pronunciation of both words was the same.

    That's weird to my ears. Balm had the ah sound, Bomb has the hot, top, wok sound. Mouth considerably more open for 'ah'.

    Balm also contains a long vowel*, bomb a short.

    *technical meaning of 'long vowel' - still a pure single vowel but long in duration, as opposed to popular meaning where what are called long vowels in English are often diphthongs.

    Regional (and perhaps class) difference in Canada. But yes, I have heard people pronounce 'balm' and 'bomb' with the vowel so descending to a schwa that they're almost indistinguishable.

    Here distinguishing long/short vowels have nothing to do with duration or being diphthongs. Here it's a phoneme question: 'note' vs 'not' -> same duration, neither a diphthong. Allowing for regional differences.

    The 'note' vowel in UK English, at least in the South of the country, is a diphthong. It's also longer in duration.
  • The term "nuisance ground" came up today. It means a garbage dump. We used the term to specifically mean where you would go to watch the bears rip through the trash.

    The other two regionalisms is that a "nip" is a hamburger in some parts of Manitoba, and "chop" is oatmeal porridge.
  • LeafLeaf Shipmate
    The other two regionalisms is that a "nip" is a hamburger in some parts of Manitoba, and "chop" is oatmeal porridge.
    The first part is true, but not the second. At all. Never heard oatmeal porridge referred to as "chop." Oatmeal porridge may be called simply "porridge". Chop is a mixture of grains fed to pigs.

    I usually don't bother trying to clean up after your postings, as it would be as time-consuming and laborious, and possibly as pointless, as trying to fact-check Donald Trump. But you might consider posting more accurately and more circumspectly. In many of your posts, you refer to "we" and "here", giving rise to misunderstandings as to the number and area of people using - what seems to me to be often - your own idiolect.

  • Don't compare me to Donald Trump. Don't respond to who and what you dislike? Which is apparently me.
  • LeafLeaf Shipmate
    I can't say whether or not I'd like you, because I don't know you. I was referring to your posting.

    Do you remember that shipmate who used to refer to bishops as "mateys"? If that shipmate had claimed that "we" "here" refer to bishops as mateys, it would have caused puzzlement about this usage. Either someone would have come along to say "no, that's not right, that's just you" or people would have been left with the assumption that the shipmate's claim was accurate. It certainly would have produced confusion and hilarity at the next Lambeth Conference.
  • jedijudyjedijudy Heaven Host
    *sigh*
    lighting hostly lightsaber...again


    This is Heaven. Remember? It's getting a bit too snarky Leaf and NOprophet_NØprofit. Please stop.

    powering down lightsaber
    jedijudy-Heaven Host

    It's the full blue Hallowe'en moon, isn't it...that has to be it.
  • Robert ArminRobert Armin Shipmate, Glory
    This is a bit of a tangent, but there's a phrase I often come across in American action novels: "It is easier to beg forgiveness than ask permission". Is this a widespread attitude?

    In terms of keeping the plot moving, it's jolly useful. In terms of real life, I can think of few things that would destroy a relationship faster than someone deliberately doing something and keeping it from me until too late, because they knew I wouldn't approve.
  • GwaiGwai Epiphanies Host
    I have only heard it used lightly. For instance, I know someone who stole his husband's food (from his plate) and used that as an excuse when he was caught and mock glared at.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    I've heard it in the UK, mostly from hobbyists of one kind or another concerning buying new and expensive hobby related kit.

    Related is a t-shirt I saw which says "If I die my biggest fear is that my wife will sell my bikes for what I told her they cost"
  • Gwai wrote: »
    I have only heard it used lightly.
    Same here. I’ve heard it fairly often, but rarely about anything that matters.

  • This is a bit of a tangent, but there's a phrase I often come across in American action novels: "It is easier to beg forgiveness than ask permission". Is this a widespread attitude?

    In terms of keeping the plot moving, it's jolly useful. In terms of real life, I can think of few things that would destroy a relationship faster than someone deliberately doing something and keeping it from me until too late, because they knew I wouldn't approve.

    I first heard that term in the military when we were uncertain if we could do something without orders. I had a sarge who used that expression all the time.
  • KarlLB wrote: »
    KarlLB wrote: »
    Item from Canada... Listened to a minister today discoursing on the subject of balms and bombs. The pronunciation of both words was the same.

    That's weird to my ears. Balm had the ah sound, Bomb has the hot, top, wok sound. Mouth considerably more open for 'ah'.

    Balm also contains a long vowel*, bomb a short.

    *technical meaning of 'long vowel' - still a pure single vowel but long in duration, as opposed to popular meaning where what are called long vowels in English are often diphthongs.

    Regional (and perhaps class) difference in Canada. But yes, I have heard people pronounce 'balm' and 'bomb' with the vowel so descending to a schwa that they're almost indistinguishable.

    Here distinguishing long/short vowels have nothing to do with duration or being diphthongs. Here it's a phoneme question: 'note' vs 'not' -> same duration, neither a diphthong. Allowing for regional differences.

    The 'note' vowel in UK English, at least in the South of the country, is a diphthong. It's also longer in duration.

    Interesting. I've lived in London, but when you say 'south of the country' are you pointing at Kent, or Sussex, or elsewhere? And when you say the the 'o' becomes a diphthong, is it kind of "no-owt"? (Sorry - I can't do the linguistic alphabet easily.)
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    edited November 2020
    KarlLB wrote: »
    KarlLB wrote: »
    Item from Canada... Listened to a minister today discoursing on the subject of balms and bombs. The pronunciation of both words was the same.

    That's weird to my ears. Balm had the ah sound, Bomb has the hot, top, wok sound. Mouth considerably more open for 'ah'.

    Balm also contains a long vowel*, bomb a short.

    *technical meaning of 'long vowel' - still a pure single vowel but long in duration, as opposed to popular meaning where what are called long vowels in English are often diphthongs.

    Regional (and perhaps class) difference in Canada. But yes, I have heard people pronounce 'balm' and 'bomb' with the vowel so descending to a schwa that they're almost indistinguishable.

    Here distinguishing long/short vowels have nothing to do with duration or being diphthongs. Here it's a phoneme question: 'note' vs 'not' -> same duration, neither a diphthong. Allowing for regional differences.

    The 'note' vowel in UK English, at least in the South of the country, is a diphthong. It's also longer in duration.

    Interesting. I've lived in London, but when you say 'south of the country' are you pointing at Kent, or Sussex, or elsewhere? And when you say the the 'o' becomes a diphthong, is it kind of "no-owt"? (Sorry - I can't do the linguistic alphabet easily.)

    "Long O" is a diphthong in most of the UK. If you look here https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/both for the pronunciation of "both" you'll see the IPA which is a dipthong - RP for example is /əʊ/. London accents are mostly pretty close to that RP dipthong. In my area the opening vowel is closer to a short o, but it still ends in
    ʊ.

    Most English speakers never notice that "long" a, i, o, u are diphthongs. It's only when you start learning foreign languages and really listen and concentrate on how your mouth is moving you realise how odd and diphthongy the English vowel system is.

    The only "long vowel" in English which is a non-dipthong is "long e" but even then it's much closer to being long version of short i than it is short e - wheech eez why a stereotypical Romance accent confuses these two sounds.
  • I should add - to confuse things further, digraphs in English not infrequently represent pure vowels:

    Loose
    Route
    Aught
    Should
    Ah
    Air
  • KarlLB wrote: »
    Most English speakers never notice that "long" a, i, o, u are diphthongs. It's only when you start learning foreign languages and really listen and concentrate on how your mouth is moving you realise how odd and diphthongy the English vowel system is.
    Or when you start learning something like, say, singing. Trained singers have to be very aware of vowels.

  • Nick Tamen wrote: »
    KarlLB wrote: »
    Most English speakers never notice that "long" a, i, o, u are diphthongs. It's only when you start learning foreign languages and really listen and concentrate on how your mouth is moving you realise how odd and diphthongy the English vowel system is.
    Or when you start learning something like, say, singing. Trained singers have to be very aware of vowels.

    There aren't very many of those. Even within the music industry.
  • KarlLB wrote: »
    Nick Tamen wrote: »
    KarlLB wrote: »
    Most English speakers never notice that "long" a, i, o, u are diphthongs. It's only when you start learning foreign languages and really listen and concentrate on how your mouth is moving you realise how odd and diphthongy the English vowel system is.
    Or when you start learning something like, say, singing. Trained singers have to be very aware of vowels.

    There aren't very many of those. Even within the music industry.
    Well, I have a Bachelor of Music degree and have always sung in choirs (except for now, of course), so there are lots of them in my world, both trained soloists and trained choral singers. And I have rarely encountered a church choir director or school choral director who didn’t at least introduce his or her singers to the basic concepts of pure vowels and diphthongs so as to get consistent and appropriate vowel sounds from the group.

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