Heaven: 2021 Proof Americans and Brits speak a different language

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  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate, Glory
    I've heard and used it without the "out", actually. Also used "that's a bummer". Probably from the '70s; and probably rooted in drug culture, such as "having a bum [drug] trip".
  • mousethiefmousethief Deckhand, Styx
    To be clear, you have heard "That bums me"?
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    Golden Key wrote: »
    I've heard and used it without the "out", actually. Also used "that's a bummer". Probably from the '70s; and probably rooted in drug culture, such as "having a bum [drug] trip".

    "That's a bummer" well and truly predates the 70s and drug culture; certainly in by mid-50s here.
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate, Glory
    mousethief wrote: »
    To be clear, you have heard "That bums me"?

    Mulling this over, I *think* so.
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate, Glory
    Gee D--
    Gee D wrote: »
    Golden Key wrote: »
    I've heard and used it without the "out", actually. Also used "that's a bummer". Probably from the '70s; and probably rooted in drug culture, such as "having a bum [drug] trip".

    "That's a bummer" well and truly predates the 70s and drug culture; certainly in by mid-50s here.

    ...so you're saying we learned it from our betters?
    ;)

  • mousethief wrote: »
    To be clear, you have heard "That bums me"?
    I usually hear it as “that’s a bummer” or “I’m so/really bummed.” I think the “out” got dropped around here a decade or two ago, maybe.

    Then there’s one of my favorite Far Side cartoons.

  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    Golden Key wrote: »
    Gee D--
    Gee D wrote: »
    Golden Key wrote: »
    I've heard and used it without the "out", actually. Also used "that's a bummer". Probably from the '70s; and probably rooted in drug culture, such as "having a bum [drug] trip".

    "That's a bummer" well and truly predates the 70s and drug culture; certainly in by mid-50s here.

    ...so you're saying we learned it from our betters?
    ;)

    Not sure quite what you mean, but I was at school in the 50's and early 60's. I can certainly remember it in Prep school days - they were 1952 to 1957.
  • mousethiefmousethief Deckhand, Styx
    I've heard "I'm bummed" or "That's a bummer" but never "that bums me" without the "out".
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate, Glory
    Gee D--
    Gee D wrote: »
    Golden Key wrote: »
    Gee D--
    Gee D wrote: »
    Golden Key wrote: »
    I've heard and used it without the "out", actually. Also used "that's a bummer". Probably from the '70s; and probably rooted in drug culture, such as "having a bum [drug] trip".

    "That's a bummer" well and truly predates the 70s and drug culture; certainly in by mid-50s here.

    ...so you're saying we learned it from our betters?
    ;)

    Not sure quite what you mean, but I was at school in the 50's and early 60's. I can certainly remember it in Prep school days - they were 1952 to 1957.

    All I meant was that if you and your culture (wherever you were/are) had the term before we did, then obviously you folks were wiser, smarter about trends, more with it, etc.

    Therefore, we late-comers learned it from our "betters".
    ;) :)

  • mousethief wrote: »
    I've heard "I'm bummed" or "That's a bummer" but never "that bums me" without the "out".
    To be fair, I don’t think I hear “That bums me” either. I hear “I’m bummed.” (But I used to hear “I’m bummed out.”)

    There’s also “bum” as in “I have a bum knee,” to mean “loaf” as in “I just bummed around the house,” and as a noun for one who sponges off others—“He’s such a bum.”

  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    Golden Key wrote: »
    Gee D--
    Gee D wrote: »
    Golden Key wrote: »
    Gee D--
    Gee D wrote: »
    Golden Key wrote: »
    I've heard and used it without the "out", actually. Also used "that's a bummer". Probably from the '70s; and probably rooted in drug culture, such as "having a bum [drug] trip".

    "That's a bummer" well and truly predates the 70s and drug culture; certainly in by mid-50s here.

    ...so you're saying we learned it from our betters?
    ;)

    Not sure quite what you mean, but I was at school in the 50's and early 60's. I can certainly remember it in Prep school days - they were 1952 to 1957.

    All I meant was that if you and your culture (wherever you were/are) had the term before we did, then obviously you folks were wiser, smarter about trends, more with it, etc.

    Therefore, we late-comers learned it from our "betters".
    ;) :)

    Aha, thank you for recognising our status! A problem with the new Ship is that it's impossible to know from the signature or profile just where others are from. I'm in suburban Sydney.
  • A colleague from England, who had recently stopped smoking, went into a bar in Yuma, Arizona, and announced that he was dying for a fag. The place went very quiet.

    I'm reminded of the story told by Mike Harding about the Yorkshireman who found himself in a burger bar or some such place on an Native American reservation in the USA; feeling hungry and missing the curry restaurants of Bradford, he said without thinking, 'I could murder an Indian'.
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate, Glory
    Shubenacadie--

    Did Mike Harding say what happened next???

    Thx.
  • RuthRuth Shipmate
    churchgeek wrote: »
    KarlLB wrote: »
    Golden Key wrote: »
    Just never, ever say "fag" in the US, or among Americans online.

    It gets worse. Bumming in UK slang can mean begging. Hence

    "Can I bum a fag off you?"

    We use "bum" that way in the US, too. I heard it a lot more in the 80s than I do now, but I think it's still relatively current.

    I still hear that use, most commonly as a question. Can I bum a cigarette off you? Can I bum a light? Can I bum a pen? It's always something small.
  • Golden Key wrote: »
    Shubenacadie--

    Did Mike Harding say what happened next???

    Thx.

    As far as I can remember (it was a long time ago that I heard the story on the radio), he didn't say in any detail. I think it was probably similar to Stercus Tauri's story:
    The place went very quiet.

  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate, Glory
    Shubenacadie--

    Yikes to both!
  • i remember that routine. Unlikely to be a true story. He also talked about buying a cake with a cherry on top, which then fell off, so he went back in and told them he had lost his cherry on the road outside...

    Comedian and impressionist Phil Cool used to do a similar routine which mentioned an Australian brand of sticky tape called Durex, with predictable results.
  • Gill H wrote: »
    i remember that routine. Unlikely to be a true story

    I should have said that I was passing the story on without any guarantee of its historical accuracy -- although it wouldn't surprise me if someone somewhere had actually made a similar mistake at some point. (The same applies to the Edgware Road/Edgware and Oxford Circus/Oxford confusion that I mentioned further up the thread).

  • I once knew a young British man who said that he had caused great humor by going into his college dorm lounge in the US and asking loudly if anyone had a rubber.

    (for those who don't know, USA rubber = condom. British rubber = USA pencil eraser)
  • NicoleMR wrote: »
    I once knew a young British man who said that he had caused great humor by going into his college dorm lounge in the US and asking loudly if anyone had a rubber.

    (for those who don't know, USA rubber = condom. British rubber = USA pencil eraser)

    Similarly, an Australian recently arrived in Aberdeen (long ago) asked if anyone in the lab office had any Durex (= Sellotape).
  • True story, Mr Image was looking for a warm neck piece to wear under a shirt, they are called a dickie. He was having trouble finding one in the men's wear department. He approached a sales women and said, " Can you tell me if you handle men's dickies". She laughed he grew red faced.
  • mousethiefmousethief Deckhand, Styx
    True story, Mr Image was looking for a warm neck piece to wear under a shirt, they are called a dickie. He was having trouble finding one in the men's wear department. He approached a sales women and said, " Can you tell me if you handle men's dickies". She laughed he grew red faced.

    ROFL
  • Robert ArminRobert Armin Shipmate, Glory
    What is a "dress shirt" in America? Just a shirt with buttons, or something more?
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    What is a "dress shirt" in America? Just a shirt with buttons, or something more?

    A "dress shirt" here is one worn with a dinner suit - ie, not just a plain white one.
  • Robert ArminRobert Armin Shipmate, Glory
    Where is "here"? What you've said is how I, as a Brit, understand the term. However that doesn't seem to fit the references I've seen in American novels.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    Where is "here"? What you've said is how I, as a Brit, understand the term. However that doesn't seem to fit the references I've seen in American novels.

    Here is Oz.
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    edited November 2019
    What is a "dress shirt" in America? Just a shirt with buttons, or something more?
    The easiest description might be a shirt with which a tie can (appropriately) be worn.

    A tie is not required, though, especially in these days of “business casual.” I’m wearing a white button-down dress shirt right now, but no tie.


  • TheOrganistTheOrganist Shipmate
    edited November 2019
    I'd define a dress shirt as one with a wing collar, fastened with studs, to be worn in the evening with a white tie and tails.
  • I'd define a dress shirt as one with a wing collar, fastened with studs, to be worn in the evening with a white tie and tails.

    That defines a tux. Which no one wears. A dress shirt is button up as indicated which could be worn with a necktie. Some collars are also button down (buttons on the tips). I haven't seen cufflinks for 40 years.

    Dinner suit? Probably that means a business suit. But usually just "suit" which means the jacket and pants match (they are pants, what's under them are underwear, or locally here in Sask "gotch"). A sports jacket is an unmatched colour but the same thing. I have a nice bright lemon yellow one which my wife doesn't like; I think it is cheerful.

    Speaking of gotch (underwear), perhaps it isn't cold enough to wear longjohns in most places? long underwear is another term. The ones not worn under pants are tights, sometimes with shorts worn over them, shudder. Which means, shudder, "ath-leisure wear".
  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    Isn't a tux a white version of a dinner jacket (DJ)? So it is worn with a bow tie, black or coloured and cummerbund often matching the bow tie. It ends at the waist. It definitely doesn't have tails. To me, a dress shirt tends to mean the sort of shirt one wears with a dinner jacket. It often has frills down the front, and sometimes studs in stead of buttons. Usually one would wear a turn down collar with a dinner jacket and a wing collar with white tie and tails.
  • BroJamesBroJames Purgatory Host
    In British English a suit that one might wear with shirt and tie in the office is usually a ‘lounge suit’. When I dressed this way on a regular basis for work button-down collars were extremely rare (and probably deprecated).

    ‘Dinner suit’, or often just ‘dinner jacket’ I’d take it to mean a black suit with satin detail on lapels and trouser seams. It is worn with a ‘dress shirt’ and a bow tie. Dress shirts might be worn with studs or concealed buttons and often a pleated front. Collar can be wing collar or the more normal turn down collar. The bow tie would normally be black, but sometimes coloured.

    The next step up is “white tie” which may also be referred to as “full evening dress”, “tails” or “dress suit”. For this a white bow tie is the rule. The waistcoat must be white and an evening tailcoat is required. The shirt should definitely be fastened with studs and have a wing collar.
  • I'd define a dress shirt as one with a wing collar, fastened with studs, to be worn in the evening with a white tie and tails.

    That defines a tux. Which no one wears. A dress shirt is button up as indicated which could be worn with a necktie. Some collars are also button down (buttons on the tips). I haven't seen cufflinks for 40 years.
    Some men here wear wear dress shirts with French cuffs requiring cuff links, even when not dressed in formal wear (tux, dinner jacket or tails). Definitely a minority, and often older men. I wouldn't dream of doing it.

    Dinner suit? Probably that means a business suit. But usually just "suit" which means the jacket and pants match (they are pants, what's under them are underwear, or locally here in Sask "gotch"). A sports jacket is an unmatched colour but the same thing.
    Yes, that's the usage in the States, at least in my experience—just "suit," or maybe "business suit."

  • edited November 2019
    @BroJames I have a number of button down collar shirts. Wear them frequently.

    The step-up levels of dress. These are non-existent here.

    No-one wears a bowtie here. It would be highly unusual.

    It seems we're finding differences in language and dress. I hope none of you wears a speedo on a beach.
  • I'd define a dress shirt as one with a wing collar, fastened with studs, to be worn in the evening with a white tie and tails.
    That defines a tux. Which no one wears. A dress shirt is button up as indicated which could be worn with a necktie. Some collars are also button down (buttons on the tips). I haven't seen cufflinks for 40 years.
    Not so. The shirt to go with Black tie (see below) has a normal (down) collar and has a number of very thin vertical pleats on the front between the fastening placket and (roughly) nipple level. Always worn with a black silk bow tie (never coloured) which one ties oneself (ready-made is a definite no-no); a black cummerbund is optional but only if not wearing a waistcoat.

    A tuxedo is the US term for what we would call Black Tie (some refer to it as dinner suit or dinner jacket) which is black, shaped like a normal jacket but with satin lapels and the matching trousers having a satin stripe down the sides. - as used to be de rigeur for men attending the Oscars.
    Dinner suit? Probably that means a business suit. But usually just "suit" which means the jacket and pants match (they are pants, what's under them are underwear, or locally here in Sask "gotch").
    We would just say "suit": two piece or three piece depending on choice. - oh, and never "pants" but trousers, pants are underclothes.
    A sports jacket is an unmatched colour but the same thing. I have a nice bright lemon yellow one which my wife doesn't like; I think it is cheerful.

    A sports jacket here would be in tweed and usually worn in the country, occasionally in town with cavalry twill trousers on the bottom and usually a checked shirt.
  • I hope none of you wears a speedo on a beach.

    Speedos! Never. A gentleman wears swimming shorts.

  • BroJames wrote: »
    ‘Dinner suit’, or often just ‘dinner jacket’ I’d take it to mean a black suit with satin detail on lapels and trouser seams.
    ”Dinner jacket” here would normally mean a white jacket. A black jacket (and pants) is a tux. (I hardly ever hear “tuxedo” anymore.)

    No-one wears a bowtie here. It would be highly unusual.
    Bow ties are very common in the American South, at least among some groups, and not just with formal wear. I wear them more often than I wear neckties. A navy blazer, khaki pants, white (or light blue) button-down shirt and bow tie have long been the default dress clothes for lots of college boys around here.

  • NicoleMR wrote: »
    I once knew a young British man who said that he had caused great humor by going into his college dorm lounge in the US and asking loudly if anyone had a rubber.

    (for those who don't know, USA rubber = condom. British rubber = USA pencil eraser)

    Similarly, an Australian recently arrived in Aberdeen (long ago) asked if anyone in the lab office had any Durex (= Sellotape).

    What does Durex mean to a Brit?

  • Speaking of gotch (underwear), perhaps it isn't cold enough to wear longjohns in most places? long underwear is another term. The ones not worn under pants are tights, sometimes with shorts worn over them, shudder. Which means, shudder, "ath-leisure wear".

    I've heard "longjohns" and "long underwear" here in Michigan.

    But in Michigan, we also call a long doughnut with icing on top (usually chocolate, but maple if you're lucky) and filling (creme or custard) inside a "long john." Out in California, they called it a "bar." If it had chocolate icing, it was a "chocolate bar," even though the doughnut itself was not chocolate. And it had no filling. I found that hard to comprehend.
  • churchgeek wrote: »
    NicoleMR wrote: »
    I once knew a young British man who said that he had caused great humor by going into his college dorm lounge in the US and asking loudly if anyone had a rubber.

    (for those who don't know, USA rubber = condom. British rubber = USA pencil eraser)

    Similarly, an Australian recently arrived in Aberdeen (long ago) asked if anyone in the lab office had any Durex (= Sellotape).

    What does Durex mean to a Brit?
    I’m guessing the same thing it does in the US, though “Trojans” might be better known.

    Sellotape is a new one to me though.
  • Durex in UK means condoms, probably the same as USA
  • edited November 2019
    Cellotape is an older term for what was more commonly called scotch tape here in Sask, which is from a brand name, kind of like hoover for a vacuum cleaner or thermos for a bottle which keeps tea or coffee warm.

    Swimming trunks for men, swimming suit for women. Skinny dipping if you don't wear one.

    I have a large collection of toques, some from here: link to a shopping page of toques. A beanie (which I understand is used some places) is exactly like a zuchetto. Notwithstanding that the first link uses "beanie" in some of the descriptions, no doubt foreign influence.
  • Enoch wrote: »
    To me, a dress shirt tends to mean the sort of shirt one wears with a dinner jacket. It often has frills down the front, and sometimes studs in stead of buttons.
    A dress shirt with frills down the front must be a survivor from the nineteen-seventies - or eighties, at a pinch.
  • mousethiefmousethief Deckhand, Styx
    Durex in UK means condoms, probably the same as USA

    Never heard of it.
    Nick Tamen wrote: »
    No-one wears a bowtie here. It would be highly unusual.
    Bow ties are very common in the American South, at least among some groups, and not just with formal wear. I wear them more often than I wear neckties. A navy blazer, khaki pants, white (or light blue) button-down shirt and bow tie have long been the default dress clothes for lots of college boys around here.

    I have seen them worn by high school teachers here. Presumably on the principle of "I don't have to impress anybody, so I can wear whatever the fuck I want, and the kids haven't learned that bit of snobbery cultural norms yet."
  • Swimming trunks for men, swimming suit for women.
    Swimming suits, swim suits or, perhaps more often, bathing suits for men and women here.

    mousethief wrote: »
    Nick Tamen wrote: »
    Bow ties are very common in the American South, at least among some groups, and not just with formal wear. I wear them more often than I wear neckties. A navy blazer, khaki pants, white (or light blue) button-down shirt and bow tie have long been the default dress clothes for lots of college boys around here.
    I have seen them worn by high school teachers here. Presumably on the principle of "I don't have to impress anybody, so I can wear whatever the fuck I want, and the kids haven't learned that bit of snobbery cultural norms yet."
    Are bow ties considered snobbish in the PNW?

  • Robert ArminRobert Armin Shipmate, Glory
    Nick Tamen, what are French Cuffs?
  • Nick Tamen, what are French Cuffs?
    Cuffs that are twice the length of normal cuffs, with four holes for cuff links instead of two. They're folded back and then closed with cuff links.

  • BroJamesBroJames Purgatory Host
    In UK parlance, sometimes called double cuffs.
  • Robert ArminRobert Armin Shipmate, Glory
    Ah yes, I know them, but I've never heard that term.
  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    'Longjohns' or 'combinations' are often called 'thermals' here these days. It makes them sound more modern. Also, thermals cling better, have more give in them, are usually a dark colour and look more stylish (I hesitate to say in this context 'cool') than the old fashioned longjohns.

    Bow ties for day wear are a bit unusual here these days and would look to me a bit of an affectation, the sort of thing only a young fogey would wear. 50+ years ago, they were almost an occupational badge for architects.

    Durex means condom because it's the name of a brand.

    Sellotape is also a brand name but it is also the normal generic word for the ordinary sticky tape. There isn't really any other word that means that here. 'Masking tape' is a less adhesive sort. 'Insulation tape', 'parcel tape' and 'gaffer tape' are all stronger varieties designed for specific uses. 'Duck tape' is a brand name.
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