For what can God be trusted?
Over in Kerygmania the following exchange occurred:
So, crew, what can God actually be trusted for? What does it mean?
MPaul wrote:KarlLB wrote:MPaul wrote:Very true. Could it be that trust is a corollary of faith? Faith is given via the ‘word’
“Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God” Ro 10:17
But then you trust in that.
Why though? I hear things all the time. Many of them are rubbish. What more do we get than hearing that tells us the thing being said is true, as opposed to all the opposing views and voices?
I do grasp this "faith equals trust" thing; honest I do. I have faith in my bike's steering tube and brakes. But that's not because I've decided to - it's because it's tried and trusted technology and I maintain it so know it will work.
This is where the problem is with religious calls for faith. In what sense is there a reliable evidence base? People believe they'll be healed and they die. People trust God for provision and end up destitute.
Perhaps this is a different question - what actually can we trust God for? Clearly not health, food or shelter because everywhere his followers are sick, hungry and homeless.
Tx for this but it touches on the Purgatorial and this thread has been threatened with extinction. If you want we could pursue the question of what we can trust God for on a different thread.
So, crew, what can God actually be trusted for? What does it mean?
Comments
But it seems to me that we can rely on God for two things: the recognition that this is a problem, and the motivation to do something about it. God's love is nothing if it is not practical.
Best wishes, 2RM.
He can also be trusted to behave in accord with his character. Which is more than I can say for anybody else I know--including me.
God did not magic me better. God gave me the gift of knowing that there was a force for good in the world: that there was hope. That knowledge empowered me to help myself over time.
Because I know I am loved by God, I am able to tackle other behaviors I know are wrong without being overwhelmed with guilt and feelings of futility. I continue to try to stop them. I have spent years praying for help about one problem in particular, becoming distressed about it, and trying different ways to stop. Then a few months ago I stopped. It was wonderful. I was filled with joy about it, so grateful that I finally managed it.
Early on, drunk, I did it again, but I felt that this was circumstantial, a reminder to be careful about the booze. But over the last week, I've picked it up again. I'm disappointed, but I have a new perspective because of that month or two of freedom. I know I can stop. I know because God has shown me my capacity. I just have to avoid the guilt trap and make the right decision at that critical juncture. I have hope, hope from my foundational faith experience, and hope because of my experiences with other compulsive behavior.
God can be trusted because God did what God said God would do using the methods God said God would use. I can't witness to God's intervention in large scale change. I don't think it's possible because we don't have God's perspective. Because I have this fundamental salvific experience to ground me, I find it easy to place my trust in God's love and faithfulness over the long term.
God does not and will not magic Creation into its fulfilment, just as he has not magicked me into mine.
That pretty well sums it up for mine.
The thing is that it begs the question of why evil is allowed; and then you have to trot out the usual suspects. To be honest, I just accept the dissonance here. I refuse to let evil talk me out of faith. I know others have very different reactions but to me, personally, God’s character is sacrosanct.He is creator, he says he is good, he redeemed me, He IS good.
Many people have quoted this in some form or other but probably first attributed to Theodore Parker in the mid 1800s. Parker was a Universalist minister.
I would say that God can be trusted to bring about justice.
Do I get a new Feat or an Ability Score Increase? How many spell slots do I have now? Is it d8 for hitpoints?
Who says we're playing D&D? We're clearly in something a bit grubbier like Unknown Armies or WFRP. Actually probably the latter - I'm trying to switch careers and not sure I have the necessary pre-requisites, nor do I have a small but vicious dog. Though I suppose you could read parts of the Bible, as "rocks fall, everyone dies".
It's one of Clifford Simak's beautiful novels (tho' he wrote one of the nastiest short stories), is it City? Dogs, ants and robots. Where humanity starts to disappear on Jupiter. A man gets there and goes out on a swirling 'surface' and an old friend who'd disappeared long before is there. Beckoning.
What a dreadful, stupid and economically disastrous idea that is.
For whom?
Life in what sense before? From what I can see believers and non-believers are alive just the same before death.
I believe that without God none of us would be alive at all, whether or not we believe that this is true.
I wish I knew where you find the confidence to believe such things.
Everyone.
When it's in, I have hope there might just be something in. When it is out I have none.
Why so? How does economics apply in Heaven? We don't even get to Ian M. Banks post-scarcity levels there? Of intellectual development too? The whole quality of existence?
And if it's a dreadful, stupid and economically disastrous idea for pre-mortem life, what is twelve men owning a quarter of Scotland and half the world living on less than six bucks a day where the average income is $17,000 pa per head?