Strikes

Today in England teachers, train drivers and some civil servants are going on strike.
Are you striking? Are you affected by it? Do you support it? What do Shippies think?

My son is in Year 10 and doing Drama for GCSE. His class had a long planned trip to the theatre booked for today. Their teacher is striking but will still be taking them on the trip as she didn't want them to miss out. To me that sums up that it's not about inconveniencing those in their care but about longer term issues of how that care is funded and supported.

Comments

  • My son in law (who with my daughter doesn't have a car by choice) commutes to work by train. The bus drivers are also striking so he loses a day's holiday plus a well known public service in a small town is likely to close too. Knock on effect.

    Another daughter works and has a child at school. She has to take a day off, losing more parental leave and in the meantime a specialist medical team already down to 4 out of 14 has lost it's acting lead (daughter) with a potential impact across 2000 beds.

    None of us disagree with strikes but ...
  • I’m out as a member of UCU (university and college staff).

  • None of us disagree with strikes but ...

    ... the government shouldn't be forcing workers to take massive pay cuts.
  • DoublethinkDoublethink Admin, 8th Day Host
    edited February 1
    I voted to strike in the ballot at our trust, as did 84% of those who voted - but we weren’t quorate under the law as it currently stands. Interestingly, the standards for a strike ballot are more rigorous than the standards for electing an mp - I can’t think why ….
    Under the law, all industrial action ballots must reach a 50% turn out with a majority voting in favour of strike action. For members in 'important public services, such as the ambulance service, 50% must turn out and vote with at least 40% of all those entitled to vote, voting in favour.

    Whereas the last by-election held had a turnout of around 26%.
  • I seems to me that the unions have no choice. And the govt is clearly refusing to negotiate, and then cynically asking why the unions won't.
  • EirenistEirenist Shipmate
    There is always a choice. Choices come with a moral price, as well as a monetary one.
  • HugalHugal Shipmate
    I seems to me that the unions have no choice. And the govt is clearly refusing to negotiate, and then cynically asking why the unions won't.

    The ministers for each department say they have an open door but only for things they want to talk about
  • Hugal wrote: »
    I seems to me that the unions have no choice. And the govt is clearly refusing to negotiate, and then cynically asking why the unions won't.

    The ministers for each department say they have an open door but only for things they want to talk about

    Yes, prison has a door.
  • Alan Cresswell Alan Cresswell Admin, 8th Day Host
    Eirenist wrote: »
    There is always a choice. Choices come with a moral price, as well as a monetary one.
    Yes, and the choice of workers who are striking is to do what they don't (no one wants to go on strike, especially at times of increasing costs when loss of wages will be felt harder) because the choice of negotiation for a better deal has been denied them by an intransigent government determined to force acceptance of yet another real term pay cut for already over worked and under paid staff.
  • Eirenist wrote: »
    There is always a choice. Choices come with a moral price, as well as a monetary one.

    Well, "having no choice" here means that the alternative is horrible. Quite close to Hobson's choice.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    Eirenist wrote: »
    There is always a choice. Choices come with a moral price, as well as a monetary one.

    I am reminded of Judge Dredd pointing out that the person he'd just arrested for damaging a cleaning 'droid to hide from a Block War had the alternative of jumping out of the window. "40 floors? It would have been suicide!" "Maybe, but it's legal".

    Some choices aren't real ones.
  • Shades of the door in Lord Vetinari's Oblong Office - *all you have to do is to walk through that door, and I will never bother you again...* (or words to that effect).
  • Martin54Martin54 Deckhand, Styx
    Then vote for more tax.
  • Alan29Alan29 Shipmate
    Martin54 wrote: »
    Then vote for more tax.

    When was that ever on a manifesto?
  • TelfordTelford Shipmate
    Alan29 wrote: »
    Martin54 wrote: »
    Then vote for more tax.

    When was that ever on a manifesto?
    LibDems have often had it on their manifesto.
  • Martin54Martin54 Deckhand, Styx
    Alan29 wrote: »
    Martin54 wrote: »
    Then vote for more tax.

    When was that ever on a manifesto?

    Quite. There are other methods of redistributing the tragic commons of course.
  • Alan29Alan29 Shipmate
    Telford wrote: »
    Alan29 wrote: »
    Martin54 wrote: »
    Then vote for more tax.

    When was that ever on a manifesto?
    LibDems have often had it on their manifesto.

    Who?
  • Alan Cresswell Alan Cresswell Admin, 8th Day Host
    The SNP and SGP have not only had increasing top rates of income tax on manifestoes, but have even managed to get that in place (though the resulting tax rates aren't that much higher than the rest of the UK - but it does show that the rich can pay more in tax without them fleeing to nations with lower tax rates). The sums gained from raising income tax rates are modest, it is only one strand of taxation available to governments, but can be sufficient if wisely used to benefit society. More important would be to actually collect tax, there's a massive amount that the UK government fails to collect (something like £3b pa) almost all from the extremely wealthy.
  • Martin54Martin54 Deckhand, Styx
    I suggested to Al that he consolidate his hold on power for the next ten years by introducing the 0.05% (five pee on a hundred quid) Robin Hood Tax on all electronic financial transactions. Perhaps he knew that even that couldn't save him from Partygate. It's only £20 bn peanuts after all. Whereas taxing the misappropriated commons of six hundred times that, by charging backdated rent for, oooooh, a thousand years and more. That would take an evolutionary leap we can't possibly ever make.
  • It's a LOT more than £3Bn.... was that a typo?

    Official Treasury estimates put it at £32Bn. It would be unrealistic to expect it all to be collected but some of it clearly is. And the Government is against even trying.

    Moreover the economic illiteracy is bloody annoying. If the Government met and negotiated appropriate settlements because of the knockon economic effects and increased revenue, the actual cost in cash terms to the government would probably be negligible.

    I am in the odd position of being inconvenienced by strikes (train, primarily) and being balloted for strike action at the same time.

    It would be silly to suggest that all strikes are always justified, but right now, I strongly support the strikes that inconvenience me.

    AFZ
  • Alan Cresswell Alan Cresswell Admin, 8th Day Host
    It's a LOT more than £3Bn.... was that a typo?
    Yes, sorry, dropped a '0' - should have been "something like £30b pa"
    Official Treasury estimates put it at £32Bn. It would be unrealistic to expect it all to be collected but some of it clearly is. And the Government is against even trying.
    Indeed, even if they tried a little and got 10%, that £3b pa of my original typo would be enough to give a half decent pay rise across the public sector.
    Moreover the economic illiteracy is bloody annoying. If the Government met and negotiated appropriate settlements because of the knockon economic effects and increased revenue, the actual cost in cash terms to the government would probably be negligible.
    It serves the government's purpose to quote the gross amount they'd need to pay rather than the net. Even the fact that about 25% of a salary increase will come straight back to the Treasury through income tax and NI doesn't get a mention, much less the knock on economic effects that generate even more revenue indirectly.

    It's that £350m per week on the side of a bus all over again ... convenient to give the biggest number for political capital even though in that case it was incorrect as well as misleading.
  • Jane RJane R Shipmate
    edited February 10
    I see that MPs are getting a pay rise in April. Presumably this will be paid in special non-inflationary money. After all, the government has spent several months earnestly assuring us that pay rises for public sector workers will cause more inflation.

    ...of course, given the large number of MPs with second jobs, describing them as public sector workers is perhaps over-generous.
  • PomonaPomona Shipmate
    Jane R wrote: »
    I see that MPs are getting a pay rise in April. Presumably this will be paid in special non-inflationary money. After all, the government has spent several months earnestly assuring us that pay rises for public sector workers will cause more inflation.

    ...of course, given the large number of MPs with second jobs, describing them as public sector workers is perhaps over-generous.

    MPs also don't get to decide their own pay. I'm also not sure why having more than one job makes someone not a public sector worker - if someone has a job as a teaching assistant and a second job as a cleaner, are they suddenly not public sector workers? It's very common for low-paid public sector workers to have multiple jobs.
  • Alan Cresswell Alan Cresswell Admin, 8th Day Host
    MPs are getting a (just under) 3% pay rise - which at least isn't something close to what public sector unions are asking for. In Scotland, MSPs will get a 1.5% pay rise.

    Also, note that since 2009 Scottish government ministers (who will also be entitled to a 1.5% pay rise) have refused to accept a pay rise with what they would have received being added to the pot available for services to the public - this is fairly symbolic, because the amount concerned is a drop in the ocean compared to the overall budget (it'll be a total of about half a million quid a year now), but an important symbol.

    If MPs refuse to take their pay rise, that would be a similar symbolic move - it would only free up a million, but that's a step in the right direction.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    Pomona wrote: »
    Jane R wrote: »
    I see that MPs are getting a pay rise in April. Presumably this will be paid in special non-inflationary money. After all, the government has spent several months earnestly assuring us that pay rises for public sector workers will cause more inflation.

    ...of course, given the large number of MPs with second jobs, describing them as public sector workers is perhaps over-generous.

    MPs also don't get to decide their own pay. I'm also not sure why having more than one job makes someone not a public sector worker - if someone has a job as a teaching assistant and a second job as a cleaner, are they suddenly not public sector workers? It's very common for low-paid public sector workers to have multiple jobs.

    I think @Jane R might be alluding to those MPs for whom the vast majority - by orders od magnitude - of their income does not come from their MP salary.
  • Alan Cresswell Alan Cresswell Admin, 8th Day Host
    The point about 2nd jobs is that low paid public sector workers need them because they're not paid enough to live on a single salary. An MP on £84k (plus for ministers and others who have extra responsibilities) doesn't need the extra income.
  • MPs are getting a (just under) 3% pay rise - which at least isn't something close to what public sector unions are asking for. In Scotland, MSPs will get a 1.5% pay rise.

    Though unlike other public sector jobs, their pay hasn't been frozen for large parts of the last decade.
  • Jane RJane R Shipmate
    Pomona wrote: »

    MPs also don't get to decide their own pay. I'm also not sure why having more than one job makes someone not a public sector worker - if someone has a job as a teaching assistant and a second job as a cleaner, are they suddenly not public sector workers? It's very common for low-paid public sector workers to have multiple jobs.

    You think MPs are low-paid? I am well aware that many public sector workers have to take second or third jobs to make ends meet. Most of them would get the sack if they were in the habit of swanning off to their other jobs in the middle of their normal working hours. Most of them would also be expected to refrain from taking jobs that involved conflicts of interest.
  • Wanderer wrote: »
    [...]

    it's not about inconveniencing those in their care but about longer term issues of how that care is funded and supported.

    That has always been my impression of local strikes.
  • PomonaPomona Shipmate
    Jane R wrote: »
    Pomona wrote: »

    MPs also don't get to decide their own pay. I'm also not sure why having more than one job makes someone not a public sector worker - if someone has a job as a teaching assistant and a second job as a cleaner, are they suddenly not public sector workers? It's very common for low-paid public sector workers to have multiple jobs.

    You think MPs are low-paid? I am well aware that many public sector workers have to take second or third jobs to make ends meet. Most of them would get the sack if they were in the habit of swanning off to their other jobs in the middle of their normal working hours. Most of them would also be expected to refrain from taking jobs that involved conflicts of interest.

    Where did I say that MPs were low-paid? Although actually compared to equivalent private-sector positions, MP pay is comparatively low.

    Surely the solution is to raise wages for everyone, not lower MPs' pay? It's like the subsidised food thing - the issue is that other workplaces don't usually have that and they should, not that it's morally wrong for MPs to have that.
  • PomonaPomona Shipmate
    Also as long as a second job doesn't cause a conflict of interest and doesn't interfere with their Parliamentary work, I have no issue with an MP taking a second job. I know a lot of freelancers for instance who choose to have more than one job because they enjoy the variety, or they freelance on the side of an office job for eg. If an MP has a side hustle selling paintings or selling knitted socks on Etsy I don't think that should be a problem - not all second jobs can be a problem, surely?

    I'm fully aware that some second jobs do create a conflict of interest and/or interfere with Parliamentary work, I'm just saying it can't be all of them.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    According to https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-13638310 being an MP - or at least doing the job properly - involves long hours.

    A second job can only take time out of that.

  • KarlLB wrote: »
    According to https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-13638310 being an MP - or at least doing the job properly - involves long hours.

    A second job can only take time out of that.

    Only if the "job" involves any work rather than being a thinly disguised bribe.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    edited February 13
    KarlLB wrote: »
    According to https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-13638310 being an MP - or at least doing the job properly - involves long hours.

    A second job can only take time out of that.

    Only if the "job" involves any work rather than being a thinly disguised bribe.

    Well, yes. Nice little earners like non-executive directorships.
Sign In or Register to comment.