Many a Dead Horse
Brother Jude
Shipmate
in Dead Horses
I am Jude; brother in Christ and I am writing to describe my creed and to allow my underlying beliefs to be scrutinized. Many, if not all, of these will likely be "Dead Horses". I will provide as cogent a reasoning as possible, from my own understanding of scripture and revelations granted me by our Lord. I will not quote scripture unless requested, so as to avoid any proof-texting.
The Apostles' Creed (Ecumenical version)
I believe in God, the Father Almighty, creator of heaven and earth.
I believe in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord, who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried; he descended to the dead. On the third day he rose again; he ascended into heaven, is seated at the right hand of the Father, and will come again to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy universal church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting. Amen.
Each morning I pray, through song, the prayer of Saint Francis of Assisi. This prayer describes perfectly what I strive to live every day of my life.
I believe that, when God sits in judgment of all mankind, He will judge all sins as equal; save one, that being the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, which entails the denial of His power, the willful ignorance of His work in the lives of men (and women), or the intentional attribution of His power to something other than Him. I hold to this belief because I have personally witnessed, and had others witness to the power of our Lord to provide the sinner, no matter the sin, with unlimited forgiveness, peace with no end, and reconciliation with those who have been made victim of that sin. I also hold to this because I have seen what the separation of sins bears into the lives of those who subscribe to such. The prejudice, pre-judgments, judgments, derision, division, self-flagellation, and general air of better than thous that this belief brings with it would seem, in my humble opinion, to be contrary to all that Christ taught and stood for.
I believe in demonic possession and in widespread demonic activity in the world today. I would suggest that almost all, if not all, major diseases, disabilities, and addictions can be attributed to one of the above. Another cause in my opinion comes from the human mind itself. A person can disable, deform, sicken, or otherwise wreak havoc on their physical body simply by dwelling too intensely on things like personal tragedy, grief, hatred, etc. Then there are curses from God Himself. This one is widely spoken of biblically, especially in the OT, and I've encountered no reason why we should believe them no longer applicable. It takes discernment in the HS to determine which thing is the cause, which can only be gained through prayer and biblical study. Why do I believe these things? Aside from seeing prime examples in the bible itself I have personally encountered people who are plagued by each and have seen what God can and will do when the cause is dealt with correctly and in a spirit of humility and confidence in the redeeming power of our Lord. I do know that personal testimony and assertion is not seen as a reliable form of evidence scientifically but this is all I can offer and I am convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt.
I believe that Christian action is the truest way in which we can emulate Christ. In my opinion 1,000 words on Christ are worth less than a single action done in for others in His love, grace, humility, and passion. When I look at the story of Jesus' life I see that almost every time He sought to spread the Good News He did so by first acting, and allowing the ripples of that action to spread and move whom they would. I have been blessed by God to find myself in a position to be able to devote my life to the sole purpose of helping those that He puts in my path to help.
I believe in one universal church. Dogma and religious ideals only serve to divorce us from our bridegroom. It is my belief that when we are called to account we will be judged not on who performed baptism or communion correctly but on how closely each of us walked with our Lord and obeyed His commands.
I believe that abortion is a sin, no matter the circumstances. To note I did not always advocate this. In fact I encouraged abortion with my first and third child, admittedly with much trepidation. A brief example, if you will, concerning my third son. Before he was born we, my ex wife and I, were informed that he had an 80% chance of death, and if he were to survive the birthing there was a 50/50 chance that he would suffer from the effects of a genetic disease called Myotubular Myopathy (for full details please feel free to look it up) and 100% chance he would be a carrier. If he suffered it would be from an inability to breathe alone, an inability to eat alone........suffice to say it deforms the muscle cells and causes extreme dysfunction in them. I agrred with my ex at first to abort but something made me change my mind, likely the desire to not suffer the death of yet a third son. He was born fully effected. They gave him a month to live, then a year, then 5, then 15. He is still here 5 years later. In my humble opinion, though my original motives were undeniably selfish, to abort a child is to deny God's plan for that child's life. No one except God can tell where that child will be in 15 years, who's lives he or she will effect, how they may bring glory to Him. Don't worry I'm prepared to be ripped apart for this but there it is.
I believe that homosexuality is a choice and a sin. Each homosexual person I've known can trace their desires back to prior instances and factors in their lives. The choice may be so buried that it has become subconscious but as far as I have seen it is there. Besides that if homosexuality weren't a sin why is God's Word so against it? Because it was written by bigoted man? Because God is a bigot? Some other reason?
I believe that the bible is literal, metaphorical, allegorical, living, and true all at one time. No reasoning here. I just feel it in my soul.
Last but not least I believe that as a Christian it is my duty and my blessing to walk in step with Christ. Where there is hate, I will combat it with love, where there is fear, with hope. All are my brothers and sisters. Will I weep for those lost in sin? Yes, at times uncontrollably. Will I judge them unworthy? No for how can I, when Christ could love one such as I? Will He punish those who choose the wide path? No, for they punish themselves, He only grants what is asked for.
I could go on but it has taken enough time to write this and I am tired.
Thanks for reading
Brother Jude
The Apostles' Creed (Ecumenical version)
I believe in God, the Father Almighty, creator of heaven and earth.
I believe in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord, who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried; he descended to the dead. On the third day he rose again; he ascended into heaven, is seated at the right hand of the Father, and will come again to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy universal church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting. Amen.
Each morning I pray, through song, the prayer of Saint Francis of Assisi. This prayer describes perfectly what I strive to live every day of my life.
I believe that, when God sits in judgment of all mankind, He will judge all sins as equal; save one, that being the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, which entails the denial of His power, the willful ignorance of His work in the lives of men (and women), or the intentional attribution of His power to something other than Him. I hold to this belief because I have personally witnessed, and had others witness to the power of our Lord to provide the sinner, no matter the sin, with unlimited forgiveness, peace with no end, and reconciliation with those who have been made victim of that sin. I also hold to this because I have seen what the separation of sins bears into the lives of those who subscribe to such. The prejudice, pre-judgments, judgments, derision, division, self-flagellation, and general air of better than thous that this belief brings with it would seem, in my humble opinion, to be contrary to all that Christ taught and stood for.
I believe in demonic possession and in widespread demonic activity in the world today. I would suggest that almost all, if not all, major diseases, disabilities, and addictions can be attributed to one of the above. Another cause in my opinion comes from the human mind itself. A person can disable, deform, sicken, or otherwise wreak havoc on their physical body simply by dwelling too intensely on things like personal tragedy, grief, hatred, etc. Then there are curses from God Himself. This one is widely spoken of biblically, especially in the OT, and I've encountered no reason why we should believe them no longer applicable. It takes discernment in the HS to determine which thing is the cause, which can only be gained through prayer and biblical study. Why do I believe these things? Aside from seeing prime examples in the bible itself I have personally encountered people who are plagued by each and have seen what God can and will do when the cause is dealt with correctly and in a spirit of humility and confidence in the redeeming power of our Lord. I do know that personal testimony and assertion is not seen as a reliable form of evidence scientifically but this is all I can offer and I am convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt.
I believe that Christian action is the truest way in which we can emulate Christ. In my opinion 1,000 words on Christ are worth less than a single action done in for others in His love, grace, humility, and passion. When I look at the story of Jesus' life I see that almost every time He sought to spread the Good News He did so by first acting, and allowing the ripples of that action to spread and move whom they would. I have been blessed by God to find myself in a position to be able to devote my life to the sole purpose of helping those that He puts in my path to help.
I believe in one universal church. Dogma and religious ideals only serve to divorce us from our bridegroom. It is my belief that when we are called to account we will be judged not on who performed baptism or communion correctly but on how closely each of us walked with our Lord and obeyed His commands.
I believe that abortion is a sin, no matter the circumstances. To note I did not always advocate this. In fact I encouraged abortion with my first and third child, admittedly with much trepidation. A brief example, if you will, concerning my third son. Before he was born we, my ex wife and I, were informed that he had an 80% chance of death, and if he were to survive the birthing there was a 50/50 chance that he would suffer from the effects of a genetic disease called Myotubular Myopathy (for full details please feel free to look it up) and 100% chance he would be a carrier. If he suffered it would be from an inability to breathe alone, an inability to eat alone........suffice to say it deforms the muscle cells and causes extreme dysfunction in them. I agrred with my ex at first to abort but something made me change my mind, likely the desire to not suffer the death of yet a third son. He was born fully effected. They gave him a month to live, then a year, then 5, then 15. He is still here 5 years later. In my humble opinion, though my original motives were undeniably selfish, to abort a child is to deny God's plan for that child's life. No one except God can tell where that child will be in 15 years, who's lives he or she will effect, how they may bring glory to Him. Don't worry I'm prepared to be ripped apart for this but there it is.
I believe that homosexuality is a choice and a sin. Each homosexual person I've known can trace their desires back to prior instances and factors in their lives. The choice may be so buried that it has become subconscious but as far as I have seen it is there. Besides that if homosexuality weren't a sin why is God's Word so against it? Because it was written by bigoted man? Because God is a bigot? Some other reason?
I believe that the bible is literal, metaphorical, allegorical, living, and true all at one time. No reasoning here. I just feel it in my soul.
Last but not least I believe that as a Christian it is my duty and my blessing to walk in step with Christ. Where there is hate, I will combat it with love, where there is fear, with hope. All are my brothers and sisters. Will I weep for those lost in sin? Yes, at times uncontrollably. Will I judge them unworthy? No for how can I, when Christ could love one such as I? Will He punish those who choose the wide path? No, for they punish themselves, He only grants what is asked for.
I could go on but it has taken enough time to write this and I am tired.
Thanks for reading
Brother Jude
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
--I'm sorry re your experiences with your sons.
(votive)
--AIUI, homosexuality is rarely mentioned in the Bible. Other things are condemned far more often.
How can you possibly know who is forgiven ? Or are you assuming forgiveness is evident solely from people's experience in this life ? Where does this leave the allegory of Job, or the mercy of god after death ?
Because we have much better explanations of these phenomena that we can test empirically. (It is not logically possible to prove the absence of something, so no one will ever be able to prove to you that demonic activity is not occurring.) Rather I am suggesting, per occam's razor, there are better and simpler explanations.
This boils down to "this is my opinion and I think I'm right". All I can say to that is, consider it possible that you are mistaken, a great deal of harm has been done by those utterly convinced they are right.
Writing is also an action, the bible didn't fall into your head. But broadly speaking I'd agree with that.
You say this and then the rest of the post is you asserting various dogma, do you see why this is internally inconsistent ?
I am sorry for the difficulties you have lived with, I don't believe that disabled people shouldn't be born (eugenics is a whole issue).
However, I believe the debate over abortion primarily centers on a) when potential life becomes a person and the balance of rights between the unborn and the mother - and you have addressed neither of these points. You instead seem to be asserting a kind of fatalism or predetermination philosophy based on I am not sure what.
Please explain why non-humans have same sex relationships, do you believe they have consiciousness and make this choice based on trauma ? Or that they weren't created by God ? Or what ?
People say this about all sorts of things, like astrology, there is no reason why it would convince anyone else.
Where you promote actions and views that cause people serious harms, your tears will be of little help.
Thank you to the former, to the later; I find six direct condemnations. Are you implying that it's being less often mentioned means we need not stress it as much?
This kind of thing seems incredibly dangerous. For example, most modern thinking attributes cholera to contaminated drinking water, and vast amounts of effort has been expended to insure safe drinking water supplies in most places able to fund such projects. Your claim is that this is wasted effort and that cholera (and other diseases like polio and smallpox) is actually caused by demons, not microbes, so public sanitation and vaccination efforts are pointless.
Just out of curiosity, what is your explanation for the apparent effectiveness of such measures?
So God's plan is for your son to suffer demonic possession? I have to say I'm troubled by your literal demonization of anyone with a disability or disease.
That last explanation is possible. Perhaps they're like Steve the Uncreated:
Technically you are correct, however, if we search for passages related to the formation of and birth of a child we can paint a fairly convincing picture of God's idea on abortion.
First let's look at Exodus 21: 22-25. In this passage we are introduced to a very specific scenario; that being, two people fighting who accidentally injure a pregnant woman and cause a miscarriage. If only the fetus is injured, there is a fine, thus equating the loss of the child to that of property. However, if the mother is also injured we see that equal injury must be dealt. As such we can conclude that under the law the child is not of equal status with the mother. At first glance we might, reasonably, deduce that such law also would apply to the case of abortion, by indicating the fetus as property. However, a why seems needed here. Why did God designate the unborn child as property? I would posit that it may have been the nature of injury to a fetus. One would have a much harder time determining the exact harm done to an unborn child than to an adult female. To get as clear a picture as possible I'll have to do some Talmudic legwork.
That bit of legal interpretation aside there are several verses which would seem to indicate God having a plan for each of us, even from before conception. Jeremiah 1:5, Galatians 1:15, and Psalms 139:13-16 are just a few. Would God's plan include forced death? Given Psalms 127:3 I would say no, but yet again that's just my opinion.
Then there are the matters of conception by rape and known deformities or disabilities. These are covered in Deuteronomy 24:16 and Exodus 4:11, Isaiah 45:9-11, and 1st Corinthians 1:27 respectively.
You are certainly correct to state that the word abortion is not used biblically but as we can see the underlying concepts are.
Not entirely. Numbers 5 offers instructions for how a priest is to perform an abortion in the tabernacle.
Not really. If the woman miscarries the fetus is dead. That's pretty clear. What's interesting is that the very recent turn against abortion has altered the way some Protestants translate scripture.
I hope your "Talmudic legwork" includes taking into account politically motivated translations.
Given the way God is willing to deal out death (the flood in Genesis, the earth swallowing Korah and his followers, etc.) the God of the Bible seems to have no problem with forced death.
There's also the case where the pregnancy threatens the life of the mother. The fact that you consider a woman saving her own life to be sinful also speaks against a general prohibition against "forced death".
Please don't encourage other posters to stray from the Dead Horse topics on the Dead Horse board. If you check the Guidelines pinned thread, the permitted topics are: biblical inerrancy, homosexuality, the role of women in church and Christian households, creation and evolution, abortion, closed communion and bitching about church music.
This is not a board for chatting about what someone believes in general.
Thanks,
Louise
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As a result, I'm dubious about how helpful this "fetus-as-property-not-person" notion is to our contemporary abortion debate, as it leaves the status of the woman herself unclear.
Does she have any agency whatever? Is she a person or is she property? Note that elsewhere in the OT, married women are expected to engage in business on their husbands' behalf.
Since the poster who started this thread personalised it so much and is no longer responding, I think it's best if this thread is closed. Please move any discussion of abortion to one of the open threads on that topic.
Thanks
Louise
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