Aging Parents

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  • PigletPiglet All Saints Host, Circus Host
    Absolutely right, LC.

    @Sarasa, you're a Very Good Daughter who's doing the best possible thing for your mum.

    I wonder if the care-home was a bit premature in having you take your mum out so soon - would it maybe have been easier once she was a bit more used to the home being "home" for her?

    I'm sure they know their business far better than I do, but when Dad went into the home, we had to be very careful not to take him anywhere near his old house, in case he thought he was going home. Once he'd been there for a few months, it became easier, and he accepted that it was "home" now. AIUI, his mind was still mostly working when he went into the home (he'd had a couple of "episodes" that had caused concern and may have been down to UTIs), but I think he was with-it enough to understand that it was in his best interests.

    Still keeping you both - and your brother - in my prayers.
  • HuiaHuia Shipmate
    Sarasa you are a brilliant daughter, even if you don't feel like that is true. Your mother would be equally unhappy, as well as a danger to herself in her own home.

    I always thought the true message behind my parents were being difficult in this way was - I want my old life back which of course isn't possible. Distraction worked best with mum, while the Charge Nurse where Dad lived was a straight speaker whom he argued with, but really respected. He would listen to her when nothing anyone else said made the slightest difference.
  • @Sarasa - well done for dealing with your mum, much sympathy for how difficult it was. Just remind yourself how confused and miserable she was living on her own, her poor neighbours and the dread of something worse happening. Now she's still confused and miserable but safe.

    And at least she was so busy having goes at you about other things she forgot about the cruise. If she'd been understanding where and when she was, she'd have been shouting at you about the holiday.
  • @Sarasa , you are a brilliant daughter who has done all she could to keep her mother safe in her old home. Now that is not possible, you have really done the very best thing you can in finding a home for her.

    It will get better - one of the small ironies of life with the Dowager was the moment she turned to me and said 'it's a good thing we found this house, isn't it?' when she had not engaged with the process at all and resisted with all her might!

    But the advice everyone has given you is right. You cannot use reason with someone with confusion; it doesn't register. I used to see Mum's eyes take on that 'rabbit in the headlights' look, and then she'd go right back to averring that black was white, day night, etc.

    I also concur about 'I want my old life back' - but not the one they just left. They want to be young and happy again and it can never be like that, I'm sorry that sounds so bleak but it may help you understand. That is not your fault, you have done your utmost to make her happy and now your 'duty' is to keep her safe - safe from herself, if nothing else.

    <votive> for you and all other loving, caring children desperately trying to square this particular circle :heartbreak:
  • SarasaSarasa All Saints Host
    Thanks every one for your support, it means a lot. @lilypad, I know exactly where you are coming from, and agree that distraction is the way to go, but after two years of being ranted at by mum over various things, I was hoping I was going to be spared them, at least over the phone!
    I can understand where mum is coming from, she hates people telling her what to do, in whatever a manner however gentle or positive. She is very intelligent, but never had much schooling due to her hatred of school authority, and I can see that she feels trapped because she can't go wandering off like she used to. Oh well it's early days
    I'm trying to get more people on board to visit. Brother is out at the moment, but sister in law who has been very supportive via text and phone but too busy with brother, ten year old and demanding job to visit hopes to pop in next week (the Home is no where near where she lives or works), and mum's best friend will come over for the Home's open day in a couple of weeks and then take it from there about visiting. I don't think she has any desire to be shouted at either. I'm going to go through mum's address book when I next go to her flat and phone up her friends that I think are still capable of getting to see her as well.
  • @lilypad it works with some but not all. With Dad who only has dementia mildly a quick summary of the truth works best. We tried going along, it only made matters worse. My sister broke down and told him the truth and it brought him back to reality pretty quick.

    With Mum, as the home discovered, it only worked intermittently. If Mum got a bee in her bonnet and decided something was what she needed to do, no matter how you tried to distract she would not be distracted. Slightly problematic when it could be getting everything out of draws in someone else's room.
  • North East QuineNorth East Quine Purgatory Host
    Sarasa, you are an exemplary daughter. I am in awe of your patience and kindness.
  • Jane RJane R Shipmate
    <hugs> to Sarasa. You are doing the right thing.

    Mother-in-law was involved in a bout of fisticuffs a couple of days ago - not because of anything she did, apparently one of the other residents attacked her for no obvious reason. She wasn't seriously hurt and has probably forgotten all about it by now, but it hasn't stopped me feeling guilty about not being able to look after her ourselves.
  • Lily PadLily Pad Shipmate
    ... and if you can at all, at all, find someone--ideally several someones--who will say to you precisely what you wish your mother would say, right after you've had to interact with her. Even though you know it already. Hearing "She's in the best place for her" and "You've done everything possible" and "You are a good daughter" and so forth, can be such a comfort--even when you already know it.

    Yes, this should be on a sign on the dash of your car so that when you get back in after a visit you can be reminded. And on a poster beside the phone. And anywhere else you can put it. Don't ever let yourself think otherwise. :)
  • On a happier note, the Dowager was looking very much better when I finally made it to visit her this morning. She was delighted to see me too, so that's a big plus for everyone. Luckily they were all settling down for a good sing-song (and a dance, too, for the more mobile ones!) so I snuck off and had a good long talk to the supervisor about her condition, without her worrying about what I was doing.

    Mum will be 95 in two weeks' time, but the home will organise a big cake and a present and a party for her *phew* so I don't have to!

    @Sarasa I thought of you all day, remembering when Mum used to ring me up and wring me up (as @Wesley J might say) over something she was panicking about, utterly refusing to accept my rational explanation and simply leaving us both in pieces. Things will get better as your mother gets used to them.

    Mrs. S, very relieved
  • PS I have finally (!) submitted a request for outline planning permission, for a bungalow to be sited in the Dowager's rear garden. I'm just praying I'm not wasting her money - but even so, it's no more than a week's care home fees and I hope it's 'bread upon the waters' time! (an application for the same thing, on a smaller plot, for a nearby house, was accepted on appeal, so I am hopeful...)
  • SarasaSarasa All Saints Host
    So pleased the Dowager has perked up @The Intrepid Mrs S . The outline planning permission sounds good. Is the idea to sell the Dowager's house with the permission or sell as two separate lots?
  • PigletPiglet All Saints Host, Circus Host
    That sounds very sensible, Mrs. S - I hope the planning permission comes through.

    @Jane R - so sorry to hear about your m-i-l - what an unfortunate thing to happen! Don't beat yourself up though - she's still in the safest and most appropriate place she can be, and for that you and your family are Doing The Right Thing.

    <votive>
  • @Sarasa to sell it with the planning permission. It's only a ploy to raise the asking price, I'm afraid, and it's entirely possible that the purchasers wouldn't build on it at all! but I need to do my best for the Dowager's funds.
  • Jane RJane R Shipmate
    @Piglet - thank you. I do know she is in the best place for her really - the care home staff have saved her life at least once since she went there. Pretty sure she would have died after breaking her leg if she'd still been at home when it happened.

    @Intrepid Mrs S - hope the planning permission application goes smoothly.
  • SarasaSarasa All Saints Host
    @Jane R , Hope your mother in law is none the worse for her bust-up, and you're right she'd probably forgotten it. As you say she's in the best place.
    @The Intrepid Mrs S , hope the planning application is approved pronto and you can get on with selling the Dowager's place. Does she still mention it?
    Thank you for all your love and prayers, it means a lot. I went to see mum today and had a lovely visit. She was, if not exactly her old self, fun to be with. I risked taking her to the café round the corner where she flirted with the waiter and I practiced my ropey Italian. She seems far more aware of the other residents, and may even be making a friend. Her delusions are racking up though. She asked me if I'd seen her mum recently. Not very recently I said, she died in 1977. Mum then wondered if my dad had married again, he died 20 years ago tomorrow, and they were together till he died. If the weather is nice tomorrow I may risk taking her out to the Summer Fair at the church across the road from the Home.
  • ZappaZappa Shipmate
    Sarasa :cry:

    [oh look ... I wrote that ^^^a few days back but forgot to hit "post"]
  • PigletPiglet All Saints Host, Circus Host
    edited June 2019
    Senior moment there, Zappa? Be comforted - I've done the same thing lots of times.
  • ZappaZappa Shipmate
    :blush: My kids might write about me on this thread soon. (One was a shippie once, briefly, back in about '05).
  • OK, Dad is self-deluding to a silly level again. First, he persuades himself Mum is talking sense to him when he visits. What this actually means is she was being attentive but what she said was completely nuts but he chose to interpret it as sensible. Then he is trying to persuade me that he and Mum might set up home together. How would two incontinent elderly people who rely on pushed wheelchairs to get any distance cope with living together independently especially as Mum has severe dementia and Dad is borderline?
  • Zappa wrote: »
    :blush: My kids might write about me on this thread soon. (One was a shippie once, briefly, back in about '05).

    I was assuming that this thread was by aging parents, as well as about them...
  • JJ, I'm afraid that's the dementia breaking through. Reason just doesn't cut it any more.

    (That may sound like stating the bleedin' obvious, but looking back, if I had realised this earlier I could have saved myself a lot of heartache)

    I have no advice as to how you can handle it, but at least you know the position you are operating from :heartbreak:

    Mrs. S, wise after the event
  • Yes, we know Dad is borderline with respect to dementia. The one thing we do not need to worry about is getting him into a home as he is in one already due to physical health problems such as not being able to walk for any distance. Mum will probably die from dementia, Dad is highly unlikely to.
  • It was the Dowager's 95th birthday yesterday, so I went down with two enormous balloons, a card, photo of all the family in a frame... the home lay on a party for every birthday but sadly hers was in the afternoon, so I couldn't stay. She looked amazing, as long as she didn't smile too widely (she's lost both front teeth to falls, and the distress involved in getting a denture has deterred me) and she had loads of cards, flowers etc, plus another visitor, so she did all right, I think.

    ION she is losing the ability to express herself - the Community Psychiatric Nurse has observed this in her assessments - and is distressed at her confusion, so her anti-depressants are being increased. I find it very difficult to converse with her, as evidenced in the following conversation;

    Mum (looking at a photo of my dad, taken in his early twenties) - 'Did I ever meet him in the flesh?'

    Me - 'yes, Mum, he's my father, you were married to him'.

    Mum - 'I'll never need reminding of that.' (pause) 'What prompted you to tell me that?'

    Me - *sigh*

    Poor Mum :heartbreak: but at least she's very well looked after, and genuinely cared for.

    Mrs. S, relieved and very grateful

  • CathscatsCathscats Shipmate
    They do forget sometimes. I remember my mother-in-law asking "Was it Bill B......that I married?" I so wanted to ask who else it might have been. She was a very pretty young VAD on an RAF base in the war, so she must have had her chances!
  • To be fair to the Dowager, my father died 40 years ago - and even then, he didn't look like the young Adonis in the photo, so not surprising if she couldn't quite remember.
  • SarasaSarasa All Saints Host
    Hope the Dowager's party went well. Mum seems to be settling into the home more though she still wants to leave and thinks my 'horrible boyfriend' has all her money. Someone came to do the first part of the Deprivation of Liberty safeguarding assessment on Thursday. I was dreading mum putting on a good show and me being told that if she wanted to go home there was nothing to stop her. From what I can gather from talking to the senior carer on her floor he considered mum had lost capacity. I only found out it had happened as I took her out to the local café yesterday and she told me a garbled story about someone asking her if she knew why she was where she was. She told me that it was due to her mum not being able to keep the house clean anymore.
    Mum also isn't sure about my dad. Mostly she knows he s dead, but she asked me the other day if I knew what he was up to and if he got married again.
  • Oh Sarasa that all sounds horribly familiar! Even now I struggle with those garbled stories, like how no-one sent a car for the Dowager - eventually I worked out that one of her fellow inmates had gone to a hospital appointment in a taxi!

    Good luck with those assessments <votive>
  • ZappaZappa Shipmate
    edited June 2019
    AP turned 97 this past week. Two days later she passed out at the hairdressers', and was ambulanced off to hospital, unconscious, 50 kms away. She came round, wondered where she was, persuaded the authorities she was fine, and was sent 50 kms back again in a (paid for) taxi, arriving at an empty house long after dark.

    When subsequently quizzed she said that the last thing she remembered was telling the hairdresser that she was "turning into a canary with all the yellow clips" - humour, I suspect, rather than an LSD trip.

    Sadly the stories I am receiving differ depending which next/nextish of kin tells them. AP's other two children (i.e. my siblings) are celebrating her birthday with her today but I won't get there for many weeks.
  • PigletPiglet All Saints Host, Circus Host
    Oh dear - poor Mrs. Zappa! Hope it was a one-off and she recovers well.
  • Autenrieth RoadAutenrieth Road Shipmate
    edited June 2019
    Huh, I logged into post something else and discovered this draft I never posted. This was terrible at the time but is now absolutely trivial compared to what just happened. Post to come.

    From several weeks ago:

    We trundle along. Mum fell the other night and got a deep cut over her eye (I suspect she hit the corner of the baseboard) but refused to go get it professionally looked out. So I wiped up all the blood and (at her request) applied two bandaids and two Tylenol.
  • Piglet said awhile ago “I think it's almost in human nature to wait for a crisis: you just muddle along because you can, until suddenly you can't.”

    Well. Today’s event:

    Mum went outside with no pants or underwear on. A neighbor helped her back in the house and then called the police (to report something concerning!). Another neighbor saw the police officer come to my house, and gave him my cellphone number. He called me. I rushed right home. Mum remembers none of this, or only bits, or maybe she's just denying it all because it's embarrassing.

    I... just... I... speechless. Fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck.
  • SarasaSarasa All Saints Host
    edited June 2019
    @Autenrieth Road I'm sorry to hear that. The bashing head story sounds very much like what happened quite frequently to my mother in law a year or so ago. Mostly she didn't need to go to hospital, but it was noticeable that her cognitive abilities declined each time. She's either been lucky, or careful since as she hasn't had a fall for over eighteen months. The wandering outside naked episode does make me wonder if your mum now needs to be somewhere with 24/7 care. A hard decision I know.
    I went along with mum's best friend to see her today. Mum was fine until we went to leave when she started on about my horrible boyfriend (who apparently is different to my husband who I got rid of a while ago). She was wondering if she could employ a solicitor to get her out of there. It seems from talking to the senior carer again that the Deprivation of Liberty safeguarding order will be granted, though I thought someone was supposed to be mum's advocate and I can't do that as I don't agree with her continued demands to go home.
    Over the next few days we (husband, sister in law, nephew and I) are clearing out her flat ahead of the sale, wish us luck.
    @Zappa , hope Mrs Z enjoys her birthday, and doesn't have anymore blackout episodes.
  • Autenrieth RoadAutenrieth Road Shipmate
    edited June 2019
    @sarasa, thank you. Yes, 24/7 care is definitely on my mind. I already had vacation planned for this coming week, and now I’m also canceling the few plans for things outside the house that I had for this week (because I don’t want to leave Mum alone more than absolutely unavoidably necessary).

    And making a list of things to do come Monday: find a primary care physician for Mum up here, plead with them to get her in ASAP (new patient appointments are typically about 2-3 months out), tell pcp I want neurologist and “what assistance does this person need?” evaluation, get a copy of the police report to give the pcp so he has some evidence I’m telling the truth when Mum denies it left right and sideways, research 24/7 care (I could start this over the weekend, but I’m going to be trying to bring some sanity to my life by cleaning my pigsty of a house and my equally neglected bills).

    Oh yes, turn the house upside down to find the power of attorney for her that I have (hopefully it will turn up during the cleaning). Change my beneficiaries to protect assets in case something happens to me. (Currently she’s my main beneficiary but it turns out that given spend-down requirements for long-term care, that’s not the best plan.) Review and send back the draft will I started with a lawyer a few months ago.

    Oh, and get my mother tested ASAP for a UTI, which can cause increased confusion. I’d noticed her being increasingly confused over the past several days, although I totally was not expecting “going outside naked from the waist down” as the obvious next step.
  • Oh, and follow up on a start I had made a few months ago to get a social worker for me to help me with this. I can get eight sessions free through my employer’s confidential employee assistance program. In fact, I think that’s a call I can set in motion right now /* hares off to start taking concrete action */
  • ZappaZappa Shipmate
    Oh, Autenrieth Road, I'm sorry. These trials don't simplify, do they?
  • AR, I'm so glad you can get appointments with a social worker to help with this. That is more initiative than I've been able to summon up for months.

    I'm sorry about the episode. I had one very much the same with an elderly relative whose Alzheimer's was suddenly revealed to be much further along than I thought it was...
  • Thank you @Zappa and @Lamb Chopped . Sending you thoughts for the situation sapping your initiative, LC.

    Today has been a quiet day. Mum is sleeping and I’m taking a long nap after cleaning the living room floor. (3 trash bags of trash removed!) About to get up and tackle a few more rooms.
  • HuiaHuia Shipmate
    AR thinking of you and your mother. I hope the UTI test goes well, My mum had ended up in hospital with a UTI which caused her to be quite weird until it was treated.
  • PigletPiglet All Saints Host, Circus Host
    {{{AR and your mum}}}

    Good luck with all the legal whatnot - keeping you in my prayers.
  • @Sarasa - sorry your mother is still finding it hard to accept going into a home. Hope she accepts the inevitable soon. Would taking your husband to see her add to the confusion or reduce it? Good luck with clearing out her flat.

    @Zappa the different stories doesn't help with reassurance as to what's going on, do they? Hope you can get to see your mother

    @Lamb Chopped - hope you can resolve your problems

    @Autenrieth Road hope that things are resolved, that you find the power of attorney and get the different things in place to support your mother.
  • What @Curiosity killed said.

    I was out all day yesterday and missed all this. AR, from time to time the Dowager takes off all her clothes in public - mercifully that's confined to the home as she doesn't go out any more. When I apologised to the care staff, they said 'oh, that's all right, they all do it!'

    Stone me, what a life, as the late, great Anthony Aloysius Hancock used to say :cry:
  • PigletPiglet All Saints Host, Circus Host
    I have a feeling that something of that nature (not actually going out undressed, but IIRC going out in the middle of the night, possibly in nightclothes) was what precipitated my dad going into a home. I wonder if there's something that turns off the part of one's brain that controls that aspect of logic?
  • I think there is an element of loss of self-control, associated with the decay of the frontal lobes. That's why very old people are inclined to say whatever comes into their heads, regardless of its potential to offend!
  • @Huia, Mum was initially amenable to getting a UTI test, but now she’s not. Oh well. Maybe eventually when I get her to have a PCP.

    @Piglet, @Curiosity killed , search for legal documents held up because I had to go to work today (and will have to tomorrow). Bah, this is supposed to be my vacation. I’m going to try to take some extra days of next week to compensate.

    @The Intrepid Mrs S , it is helpful (if also mind-boggling) to know that other old people do this too. Sigh.
  • @Autenrieth Road the fact that other people travel this same path has made my own journey that much more bearable (())

    Even if you can't find the LPOA, in the UK at least you can get a duplicate from the Office of the Public Guardian for £35.

    Good luck on all counts!
  • Thanks, @The Intrepid Mrs S . I don’t think our POA’s here in the US are filed publicly, but if needed I can get my mother to call her lawyer and send another copy.

    A situation arose earlier this spring where I thought I would need it, and at that time I called the lawyer, but they didn’t want to send it on just my say-so, but wanted my mother to call to request it. (Quite how that would work if my mother HAD been completely non compos mentis (“not of sound mind”), I do not know.)

    But it would be more convenient to find the copy that’s floating around my house hiding behind a camouflage of a mountain of loose papers.
  • jedijudyjedijudy Heaven Host
    After more than half a year of struggling with my parents...well, Dad, really...they sold their car yesterday.

    Florida has hearings for elderly drivers, and suspends licenses of those who have obvious problems with health, reaction time and/or cognition. Mom was fine with it. (She has Alzheimer's.) Dad swore up and down that if he wanted to drive he'd drive. I reminded him that if he didn't have a driver's license, he also would not have car insurance, and if he got into a wreck, he could destroy the family finances.

    I'm not proud to say that for the first time in my life, I yelled at my dad.

    A man down the street from them bought the car for his grandson to drive back and forth to college. Dad didn't count the cash, just trusted that it was genuine hundred dollar bills in the correct amount! :joy: They did have wistful countenances as their 2002 Crown Victoria drove away under another person's power. (And even though I am- and have been- responsible to take them everywhere, I'm so relieved the car is gone.)
  • Lily PadLily Pad Shipmate
    Very sad transition for them, I am sure. My neighbour has been losing his eyesight and is about to lose his driver's license even though he sees very well at a distance and is cautious. It is frustrating him no end and is going to be a huge restriction on him. So hard.
  • Robert ArminRobert Armin Shipmate, Glory
    A couple of months ago I moved my mum into a home near me. It's a lovely place, and I'm sure it's right for her, but seeing her every day is exhausting. She worries so much about things that don't exist, that at times I snap - and then I feel I'm a dreadful son. It's some comfort to hear I'm not the only one who struggles with feelings like that.
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