Sorry to hear that, Sarasa. Do you think she would agree to a request for a Social Care assessment as a way of assessing what she needs to remain in her home safely? The other thing we've talked about on the Difficult Relatives thread is hoping that the incident that shows her she's not safe living alone isn't too bad.
That you @Curiosity killed and @The Intrepid Mrs S for your support and sympathy. I'm wondering about a social servcies assessment too. Mum has too much money for them to provide any services themselves, but hopefully they might give us some pointers as to how to proceed. On the other hand I emailed them five years ago when mum's eyesight started to decline and they didn't want to know (it's a Borough that has slashed all but essential services). I think using terms usch as 'vunerable adult' would make them have to act.
Mum certainly needs something. Her paranoia about the neighbours is all consuming and she is re-writing past incidents in her mind. Now she says they DID steal the money that was lost (and found) the day the police were called. She is suggesting that they stay in all day listening to her every move and she can hear them doing it. Added to my brother spotting a lightbulb shaped burn on her wardrobe door where it had been open again a naked bulb for a long while and both of us are very worried about her safety.
Mum is supposed to be having a brain scan next week. The nurse at the memory clinic said we could go ahead with that as a diagnosis doesn't have to be done in a particular order. Any clever ideas for getting her to agree?
Oh Sarasa, I feel for you. This right to refuse all help is a bit of a problem isn't it?
If your social services is anything like the two lots who can't/won't do anything round here, you may be unlucky. But I hope they aren't.
And the financial thing about having enough money isn't good, either.
I don't think D would consent to the assessment. As for me as carer, she was robust in declaring to the doctor that I didn't need respite. For robust read vituperative.
Looking at that list, she can manage 2 & 3, could but won't manage 4 unless expecting a visit from someone to impress, or to watch a royal wedding. She has clean clothes but is slovenly about changing into them. 1, 5 & 6 no. Possibly 7, but most people are dead. Thinks she can manage 8 and 9. Wants to do 10, but he doesn't want her to, and she couldn't, anyway. But she would have to be self funding for care, and she won't assent to it.
I don't want to be a recognised and assessed carer. Or any sort of carer. It would benefit me if it were recognised by the social services that there is a hydra-headed safeguarding issue that could only be resolved by getting her away from me. It's recognised by the doctor, the dietician and the nurses (or a sufficient tranche of them). But there is no action.
She has capacity. She gets to choose. It's mad.
I am composing a missive to the social services department.
Mum is supposed to be having a brain scan next week. The nurse at the memory clinic said we could go ahead with that as a diagnosis doesn't have to be done in a particular order. Any clever ideas for getting her to agree?
Tell her it's something everyone has to have done once they turn 90?
Tell her it's part of a research project and she is part of a control group that DON'T have Alzheimer's?
Tell her her favourite tour guide has retrained as a brain scanner?
Sorry - that's all I can think of on the spur of the moment!
Mrs. S, fervently wishing good fortune on all posting here
Many years ago, we were concerned about my grandmother, who was being cared for by my grandfather. My grandfather was very independent and adamant that he was coping, but he wasn't coping as well as he thought, and it was Gran who was suffering. I made an appointment with their GP (same practice as my own GP), to tell him about the family concerns and he "dropped in" on them claiming that it was official policy at age whatever to provide home visits.
Thank you for your suggestions @The Intrepid Mrs S, the last one really made me laugh. I phoned up the radiography department at the hospital to ask for ideas on getting mum to the appointment. They suggested just saying her GP wants it done. I'll have a go with that to start off with.
My brother and I have been mulling over yesterday. We think the practice nurse at the clinic could have got mum's consent for the tests, if rather than backing off when mum refused, she'd just sat down and began a general chat about things, mum does love to chat about herself. Oh well, maybe next time.
The phone just rang, and I was dreading I being mum with another series of complanits against the neighbours, and dreading broaching the subject of the scan. Instead it was my lovely mother in law just phoning to say how much she is looking forward to seeing me tomorrow. MIL is much more confused about day to day things than my mum, but unlike mum she still seems genuinely interested in other people. Strange how aging affects people differently.
I don't think D would consent to the assessment. As for me as carer, she was robust in declaring to the doctor that I didn't need respite. For robust read
I don't want to be a recognised and assessed carer. Or any sort of carer. It would benefit me if it were recognised by the social services that there is a hydra-headed safeguarding issue that could only be resolved by getting her away from me. It's recognised by the doctor, the dietician and the nurses (or a sufficient tranche of them). But there is no action.
She has capacity. She gets to choose. It's mad.
I am composing a missive to the social services department.
You seem to have no legal obligation to care for her. As I said a year ago, just kick her out.
I should think that's a lot more easily said than done, especially as Penny's been caring for her for such a while. I think it's a bit thick for D. to tell the GP that Penny doesn't need a bit of respite though - what a nerve!
I think we've probably said all that should be said in AS about whether or not Penny can evict her "guest". As Curiosity Killed said, anything further on that particular aspect of Aging Parents would probably be better suited to either Difficult Relatives or Bad Samaritans in Hell.
Down to see the Dowager today - it sounds heartless, but I've more or less given up on phoning her. She only really seems to benefit from F2F interactions. But they were all out in the sun, having a quiz and a party today, which was lovely. She told my dear cousin-by-marriage that she was happy at the home HOORAY, HALLELUJAH who would have guessed that a few weeks ago?
But oh, she is frail, and weary, and dozing off too readily. She made me think of Housman's 'when he shall hear the stroke of eight, but not the stroke of nine' - i.e. that she will probably see her 94th birthday but likely not her 95th.
Sadly, her garden looks like a meadow as the young chap who was cutting the grass has given up (too much college work etc) and the radiator in the sitting room has started to leak. I can see that we need to sell the house sooner rather than later, and I had hoped for a break first!
The final time Dad visited me I organised a train trip for him. We met him and had a picnic beside a beautiful lake, then drove him home. I only learned how much he enjoyed that day when I spoke to my youngest brother, some weeks later who was sick of hearing about it.
Before doing the silence thing again, on Sunday, I had a discussion with Friends at the Meeting House. Not during Meeting, nor yet a formal Meeting for Clearness, but I told them of the advice from social services (evict, taxi to unfit home, contact local social services, in that order and with no active support), and with one voice they chorused "You can't do that!"
Their advice - keep harrying social services.
So you take the advice of your Quaker meeting over qualified and experienced people here? Then perhaps you should stop posting here and stick to the echo chamber of your Friends.
Before doing the silence thing again, on Sunday, I had a discussion with Friends at the Meeting House. Not during Meeting, nor yet a formal Meeting for Clearness, but I told them of the advice from social services (evict, taxi to unfit home, contact local social services, in that order and with no active support), and with one voice they chorused "You can't do that!"
Their advice - keep harrying social services.
Why can't you? Any reasons for this brilliant advice? And "keep harrying social services" to do what exactly?
You know, although I realize that people are well intentioned for the most part, it is coming off like a gang of bullies. I've tried not to get involved but this last round is just too much. Penny S, obviously you have worn out the sympathy of most of the folks here and being quiet about it is pretty much the only option until you find a resolution that you can live with. I too struggle with doing what everyone says I should but I am trying to do something. Social services may or may not help. I feel like you are a victim in your household and that one day you will realize it but I am not the one who has to live in your circumstances.
Have any of these idio - Friends - actually worked in the public sector?
Didn’t you used to teach? Mrs Brown harasses you continually about little Erasmus, who is indeed a problem child - but one among hundreds you are obliged to concern yourself with. You offer her all the avenues of assistance that are yours to proffer. She refuses - she knows Rasi and there is no way he will accept, or she can compel him. But nevertheless she importunes you to do that something that she KNOWS you could do if you wanted, and if she just keeps on, and on, and on...
Penny S - I promised never to say anything more about your situation and as I don't know you in real life I think it ought to remain that way. I do hold you in the light though.
I'm off to my mother's in a bit, where I will meet my brother to take her for an appointment for a brain scan. I hope it goes better than the memory clinic visit last week.
Thank you @Piglet and @The Intrepid Mrs S . It went a lot better than last week, mainly because I think my brother and I are getting better at lying about what's happening, she bought the idea that the GP had phoned my brother and suggested the scan. Mum had had a brain scan before when the hospital were trying to rule out various things when she had a persistant earache. She was told that time there was nothing there, which made her laugh. She was fine with it all, though she was hoping they were going to tell her the results there and then.
We then went to a nice pub for lunch afterwards which was very pleasant. Mum loves chatting though her stories now switch in mid-stream and she gets very muddled.
There was another stand-off with the neighbours on Monday. Mum accussed them of smearing make-up all over her bed linen. Well there are signs of make-up on the bed, but I assume mum had some sort of 'accident' and can't remember. Brother and I feel another appology to the neighbours is due.
Sarasa, when you have to persuade your Mother into another visit/assessment, could you say it is to help discuss what is going on with the neighbours? (It has the merit of being true, in a way!)
(I am full of admiration for all of you here. My aged relative was difficult, but had no memory loss.)
@Landlubber - I tried that, but my mum thought it was ridiculous as it is obvious that the neighbours come in and do the things she claims. A friend of hers had a better idea and told mum that a 'memory clinic' has nothing to do with forgetting things, but is to do with helping mum remember things in her past that might be the cause of the neighbours problem now. A clever idea, and mum now says that she wishes she had talked to the nurse, so maybe next time.
The trouble is I'm a lousy liar, and no good at thinking on my feet, but I guess I'll learn.
@Sarasa, it's really hard to know what will fly with our APs; they aren't logical and that's partly why we struggle with their care. Often it's who makes the suggestion, as well, that determines their response to it, so don't blame yourself for not coming up with a successful proposal every time. In my experience, the Dowager would take advice/suggestions from any one but me!
Now, though, she will praise me to the skies to her visitors, for everything I've done for her (even though she's also aware she's got on my nerves!) Risperidone, which I see is used for treatment of paranoid schizophrenia, has worked wonders for her, praise be.
In other news, when I last visited, they were all out in the courtyard in the sunshine, having a little party (beer, wine, G&T!) and a quiz! Some were having their nails done, some were just rejoicing in unlikely sunhats - it was lovely.
@The Intrepid Mrs S - that's such good news that the Dowager is settled, safe and happy, and has accepted your interventions.
We have students on risperidone, it's an anti-psychotic medication. Fantastic that it's working for the Dowager.
@Sarasa - well done for getting your mother to some of the appointments. A suggestion from someone in her friendship group is sure to sound more friendly than one from you, just because peer groups.
I just wanted to share this with you-all - I sometimes wonder, when I have to tell Mr. S for the third time when something is happening (for example) whether he's beginning to go downhill. I'm quite sure he thinks the same about me sometimes!
We have a very dear friend J who is looking after his wife of 60 years, with severe Alzheimer's, at home. I don't know anyone else who would have stuck it out so long - but my point is that when she first started, a very distressing aspect of it was that in her mind, it was J who had the problem. 'I have such trouble with him' she'd say, 'I really think he's losing it altogether'. I suppose, like Sarasa's Mum,she knew something was wrong, but couldn't bear the thought that it was her herself
Bless you Mrs S. and all others going through this difficult period. My friend is going through it with her Mum. It’s a slow decline and it’s the not knowing that’s the hard bit. With a baby they make small improvements all the time. At the other end of life we lose a little bit at a time, physically and mentally.
I remember when Mum was going through it I often questioned my own abilities ‘am I getting it?’ This worry has diminished with time.
Then I think about another friend’s daughter who is 30 and has never been able to move, speak or think and I am thankful for the long, healthy life Mum did have until her last years.
What makes you think that Quakers may not know what they are talking about? Seems a bit odd to jump to that conclusion.
@Penny S - I don't think people were saying that Quakers didn't know what they were talking about, just that they weren't being as helpful as they might be, which to me doesn't sound like the Quakers I know. Most of the ones I know work in the caring professions in some capacity or another and would have insight into what you are going through. Rather than a casual chat before Meeting how about asking for a Meeting for Clearness and go through the issues thoroughly with people in real life?
I just wanted to share this with you-all - I sometimes wonder, when I have to tell Mr. S for the third time when something is happening (for example) whether he's beginning to go downhill. I'm quite sure he thinks the same about me sometimes!
Ditto with Mr Nen and me, and I know I do forget things at times, but we all do that, don't we? (Someone please say yes!) I'm holding on to the idea that as long as I'm thinking it could be me, then - it isn't.
(I did send you a PM a couple of weeks back, Mrs S... don't know whether you've seen it...?)
@Landlubber - I tried that, but my mum thought it was ridiculous as it is obvious that the neighbours come in and do the things she claims. A friend of hers had a better idea and told mum that a 'memory clinic' has nothing to do with forgetting things, but is to do with helping mum remember things in her past that might be the cause of the neighbours problem now. A clever idea, and mum now says that she wishes she had talked to the nurse, so maybe next time.
The trouble is I'm a lousy liar, and no good at thinking on my feet, but I guess I'll learn.
It's much easier to join in a discussion about someone else's aging parent than it was to know what to say to my own.
Ditto with Mr Nen and me, and I know I do forget things at times, but we all do that, don't we? (Someone please say yes!) I'm holding on to the idea that as long as I'm thinking it could be me, then - it isn't.
Nen, I sometimes think that if a week that goes by when I haven't misplaced something - the truth will be that I have, but am unaware of it. My sole reason for still having a landline phone is that it is actually plugged into something that is plugged into a wall.
Ditto with Mr Nen and me, and I know I do forget things at times, but we all do that, don't we? (Someone please say yes!) I'm holding on to the idea that as long as I'm thinking it could be me, then - it isn't.
Nen, I sometimes think that if a week that goes by when I haven't misplaced something - the truth will be that I have, but am unaware of it. My sole reason for still having a landline phone is that it is actually plugged into something that is plugged into a wall.
I'm in this boat too. I keep on realising that my brain doesn't work nearly as well as it used too.
Mum's latest neighbours' gripe is that they poured Benelyn into her leggings, but didn't bother to take her rubbish down for her when they were in the flat. You really couldn't make it up. My brother has also had to phone the local locksmith after mum had been in enquiring about installing a £7,000 security system. They were very understanding, and won't try to sell her one.
I think I should be doing a lot more for my mother than I am, but as I think that would mean moving in with her, and there is no way I'm doing that we'll muddle along as we are and try and get more help for her. As for drugs, which I guess is what might be suggested the next time we see someone about mum's behaviour I'm a bit concerned about her taking anything without close supervision. She's been known to have very adverse reactions to antibiotics and I don't want to make things worse than they already are. Well, I guess we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.
Signing in to report that Mother-in-law is still doing well at her care home. So well, in fact, that we have had to buy her new trousers because she has put on so much weight. This is really good news - she was seriously underweight when she went in - and in spite of the broken leg last year and another fall more recently, she is very healthy for her age and seems to be thriving, although the dementia is still progressing. She does still remember who we are, but conversations are becoming ever more difficult...
When my mother was in the Hospice some women came offering make up. She was delighted and it lifted her spirits. Dad was horrified, he made some comment about it "Not being necessary". I don't think he actually used the phrase "painted woman" but I think it was in his mind. Not liking the smell of most cosmetics, I've never really used them, so I didn't realise he held such old-fashioned views.
My mother-in-law's home has a hairdresser who comes in regularly and someone who does manicures and pedicures. It's amazing how much difference it makes to your self-esteem, even if you're a confused old lady in her 90s.
I hate to disagree with Douglas Adams, but hairdressers should NOT have been on the 'B' Ark. They create happiness.
Thanks for the good wishes, everyone. I was a bit hesitant about sharing the good news, after all the horrible things other people have been going through, but hearing about the Dowager Mrs S inspired me.
Comments
Mrs. S, wishing that a nap would solve all issues 90 years on...
Mum certainly needs something. Her paranoia about the neighbours is all consuming and she is re-writing past incidents in her mind. Now she says they DID steal the money that was lost (and found) the day the police were called. She is suggesting that they stay in all day listening to her every move and she can hear them doing it. Added to my brother spotting a lightbulb shaped burn on her wardrobe door where it had been open again a naked bulb for a long while and both of us are very worried about her safety.
Mum is supposed to be having a brain scan next week. The nurse at the memory clinic said we could go ahead with that as a diagnosis doesn't have to be done in a particular order. Any clever ideas for getting her to agree?
If your social services is anything like the two lots who can't/won't do anything round here, you may be unlucky. But I hope they aren't.
And the financial thing about having enough money isn't good, either.
@Penny S From the same document: The threshold is: (I'm paying attention because my daughter currently qualifies for care under this criteria. The hope is that the right medication cocktail will help.)
Looking at that list, she can manage 2 & 3, could but won't manage 4 unless expecting a visit from someone to impress, or to watch a royal wedding. She has clean clothes but is slovenly about changing into them. 1, 5 & 6 no. Possibly 7, but most people are dead. Thinks she can manage 8 and 9. Wants to do 10, but he doesn't want her to, and she couldn't, anyway. But she would have to be self funding for care, and she won't assent to it.
I don't want to be a recognised and assessed carer. Or any sort of carer. It would benefit me if it were recognised by the social services that there is a hydra-headed safeguarding issue that could only be resolved by getting her away from me. It's recognised by the doctor, the dietician and the nurses (or a sufficient tranche of them). But there is no action.
She has capacity. She gets to choose. It's mad.
I am composing a missive to the social services department.
Tell her it's something everyone has to have done once they turn 90?
Tell her it's part of a research project and she is part of a control group that DON'T have Alzheimer's?
Tell her her favourite tour guide has retrained as a brain scanner?
Sorry - that's all I can think of on the spur of the moment!
Mrs. S, fervently wishing good fortune on all posting here
My brother and I have been mulling over yesterday. We think the practice nurse at the clinic could have got mum's consent for the tests, if rather than backing off when mum refused, she'd just sat down and began a general chat about things, mum does love to chat about herself. Oh well, maybe next time.
The phone just rang, and I was dreading I being mum with another series of complanits against the neighbours, and dreading broaching the subject of the scan. Instead it was my lovely mother in law just phoning to say how much she is looking forward to seeing me tomorrow. MIL is much more confused about day to day things than my mum, but unlike mum she still seems genuinely interested in other people. Strange how aging affects people differently.
You seem to have no legal obligation to care for her. As I said a year ago, just kick her out.
I think we've probably said all that should be said in AS about whether or not Penny can evict her "guest". As Curiosity Killed said, anything further on that particular aspect of Aging Parents would probably be better suited to either Difficult Relatives or Bad Samaritans in Hell.
Thanks,
Piglet, AS host
Sounds like the name of a punk rock group.
But oh, she is frail, and weary, and dozing off too readily. She made me think of Housman's 'when he shall hear the stroke of eight, but not the stroke of nine' - i.e. that she will probably see her 94th birthday but likely not her 95th.
Sadly, her garden looks like a meadow as the young chap who was cutting the grass has given up (too much college work etc) and the radiator in the sitting room has started to leak. I can see that we need to sell the house sooner rather than later, and I had hoped for a break first!
Mrs. S, taking up estate agency in her spare time
Some of the best news I've read on this thread!
The final time Dad visited me I organised a train trip for him. We met him and had a picnic beside a beautiful lake, then drove him home. I only learned how much he enjoyed that day when I spoke to my youngest brother, some weeks later who was sick of hearing about it.
Their advice - keep harrying social services.
Yes, marvellous
So you take the advice of your Quaker meeting over qualified and experienced people here? Then perhaps you should stop posting here and stick to the echo chamber of your Friends.
Why can't you? Any reasons for this brilliant advice? And "keep harrying social services" to do what exactly?
Have any of these idio - Friends - actually worked in the public sector?
Didn’t you used to teach? Mrs Brown harasses you continually about little Erasmus, who is indeed a problem child - but one among hundreds you are obliged to concern yourself with. You offer her all the avenues of assistance that are yours to proffer. She refuses - she knows Rasi and there is no way he will accept, or she can compel him. But nevertheless she importunes you to do that something that she KNOWS you could do if you wanted, and if she just keeps on, and on, and on...
Long may it last.
Penny S - I promised never to say anything more about your situation and as I don't know you in real life I think it ought to remain that way. I do hold you in the light though.
I'm off to my mother's in a bit, where I will meet my brother to take her for an appointment for a brain scan. I hope it goes better than the memory clinic visit last week.
We then went to a nice pub for lunch afterwards which was very pleasant. Mum loves chatting though her stories now switch in mid-stream and she gets very muddled.
There was another stand-off with the neighbours on Monday. Mum accussed them of smearing make-up all over her bed linen. Well there are signs of make-up on the bed, but I assume mum had some sort of 'accident' and can't remember. Brother and I feel another appology to the neighbours is due.
(I am full of admiration for all of you here. My aged relative was difficult, but had no memory loss.)
The trouble is I'm a lousy liar, and no good at thinking on my feet, but I guess I'll learn.
Now, though, she will praise me to the skies to her visitors, for everything I've done for her (even though she's also aware she's got on my nerves!) Risperidone, which I see is used for treatment of paranoid schizophrenia, has worked wonders for her, praise be.
In other news, when I last visited, they were all out in the courtyard in the sunshine, having a little party (beer, wine, G&T!) and a quiz! Some were having their nails done, some were just rejoicing in unlikely sunhats - it was lovely.
Mrs. S, praying for all supporters of APs.
We have students on risperidone, it's an anti-psychotic medication. Fantastic that it's working for the Dowager.
@Sarasa - well done for getting your mother to some of the appointments. A suggestion from someone in her friendship group is sure to sound more friendly than one from you, just because peer groups.
We have a very dear friend J who is looking after his wife of 60 years, with severe Alzheimer's, at home. I don't know anyone else who would have stuck it out so long - but my point is that when she first started, a very distressing aspect of it was that in her mind, it was J who had the problem. 'I have such trouble with him' she'd say, 'I really think he's losing it altogether'. I suppose, like Sarasa's Mum,she knew something was wrong, but couldn't bear the thought that it was her herself
Mrs. S, hoping the issue isn't with her <eeeek>
I remember when Mum was going through it I often questioned my own abilities ‘am I getting it?’ This worry has diminished with time.
Then I think about another friend’s daughter who is 30 and has never been able to move, speak or think and I am thankful for the long, healthy life Mum did have until her last years.
((Hugs))
@Penny S - I don't think people were saying that Quakers didn't know what they were talking about, just that they weren't being as helpful as they might be, which to me doesn't sound like the Quakers I know. Most of the ones I know work in the caring professions in some capacity or another and would have insight into what you are going through. Rather than a casual chat before Meeting how about asking for a Meeting for Clearness and go through the issues thoroughly with people in real life?
Ditto with Mr Nen and me, and I know I do forget things at times, but we all do that, don't we? (Someone please say yes!) I'm holding on to the idea that as long as I'm thinking it could be me, then - it isn't.
(I did send you a PM a couple of weeks back, Mrs S... don't know whether you've seen it...?)
Nen, I sometimes think that if a week that goes by when I haven't misplaced something - the truth will be that I have, but am unaware of it. My sole reason for still having a landline phone is that it is actually plugged into something that is plugged into a wall.
I'm in this boat too. I keep on realising that my brain doesn't work nearly as well as it used too.
Mum's latest neighbours' gripe is that they poured Benelyn into her leggings, but didn't bother to take her rubbish down for her when they were in the flat. You really couldn't make it up. My brother has also had to phone the local locksmith after mum had been in enquiring about installing a £7,000 security system. They were very understanding, and won't try to sell her one.
I think I should be doing a lot more for my mother than I am, but as I think that would mean moving in with her, and there is no way I'm doing that we'll muddle along as we are and try and get more help for her. As for drugs, which I guess is what might be suggested the next time we see someone about mum's behaviour I'm a bit concerned about her taking anything without close supervision. She's been known to have very adverse reactions to antibiotics and I don't want to make things worse than they already are. Well, I guess we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.
Here is a lovely news story, all strength to his elbow. Golden Girls.
I hate to disagree with Douglas Adams, but hairdressers should NOT have been on the 'B' Ark. They create happiness.
Thanks for the good wishes, everyone. I was a bit hesitant about sharing the good news, after all the horrible things other people have been going through, but hearing about the Dowager Mrs S inspired me.