I paid my usual Monday visit to Tesco this morning, and noticed a few more maskless people (mostly in the age group that's catching the Plague at the moment) than were evident last week.
The store wasn't especially busy - I tend to go at off-peak times if I can - so it didn't feel unsafe...
I haven't been to church for some time (apart from a visit to my local Place), but I hear that attendance at Our Place since *Freedom Day* has dropped quite significantly. There may be various reasons for this, but I do wonder if perhaps more people than before are wary of the effect of lifting virtually all restrictions.
Masks are mandatory on public transport here (according to the law) but under 50% wear them. Scanning QR codes. or signing in at shops and libraries likewise, I get strange looks when I scan at the local supermarket so I say I'm practicing for the arrival of the delta variant.
Actually I do want to keep in the habit because situations can change rapidly, besides it being strongly advised. I thing many people here have become complacent.
My Pilates instructor (aka The Torturer) told me today that she had recently had a client who was a fully paid-up Covid Denier. She (The Torturer) still wears a mask during session, and carefully cleans the Reformer machine and other equipment in between clients.
Covid Denier pooh-poohed all this, saying it was all a waste of time, and that they found it *offensive* to have equipment sprayed after use. The Torturer's reply included the observation that washing of hands and cleaning of equipment was simply basic hygiene, and that she preferred her clients NOT to be lying in one another's sweat...
I said that as far as I was concerned, her wearing of a face covering showed consideration for me, and that I was appreciative of this, so I think that cheered her up a bit. She had been somewhat spooked by Covid Denier's attitude...
Covid Denier pooh-poohed all this, saying it was all a waste of time, and that they found it *offensive* to have equipment sprayed after use.
I think it's all this manufactured outrage that gets to me the most. The idiot brigade has noticed people getting offended by actually offensive (usually racist etc.) things that they say and do, and so has decided that they can claim to be offended, and this trumps actual facts.
So it's all "I'm offended by your cleaning" and "your mask makes me feel unsafe", as though that was some kind of actual real argument for anything.
It's a cynical attempt to undermine people with actual real reasons to feel unsafe.
Of course, your Pilates instructor (or anyone else running their own business) is entirely within their rights to say "no mask, no join" and bar anyone from their activity who isn't masked (may fall foul of anti-discrimination legislation for someone with a genuine medical reason why they can't wear a mask, but no one really objects to people in such a position not wearing one - I know of people who have genuine medical conditions who still wear a mask as much as possible).
Of course, your Pilates instructor (or anyone else running their own business) is entirely within their rights to say "no mask, no join" and bar anyone from their activity who isn't masked (may fall foul of anti-discrimination legislation for someone with a genuine medical reason why they can't wear a mask, but no one really objects to people in such a position not wearing one - I know of people who have genuine medical conditions who still wear a mask as much as possible).
Indeed she would, along with the rest of the practitioners at the clinic.
AFAIK, they all continue to wear face-coverings and other PPE when dealing with patients (osteopathy is rather a hands-on thing!), although the reception staff (behind their perspex screen) don't. The practitioners don't insist on clients/patients wearing face-coverings (to be honest, the Pilates exercises make me huff and puff rather a lot - my specs would steam up instantly...).
My feeling is that they are all being considerate towards their patients, as well as careful of themselves, and I really can't see why anyone would object.
Yes, a salutary tale. What is perhaps even more frightening is what was said by a registrar:
...a senior intensive care registrar said she had come across only one patient in critical care who had received both vaccination doses, and that the “vast majority” of people she was seeing were “completely unvaccinated”.
By the time she sees them, it's very often too late.
I paid my usual Monday visit to Tesco this morning, and noticed a few more maskless people (mostly in the age group that's catching the Plague at the moment) than were evident last week.
It was my turn this week do do the supermarket shopping (under our rules, only 1 person per household is allowed to at the moment) and there were no maskless people amongst staff and customers. Almost everyone we see when out walking is wearing them also.
I'm coming across a mix of people wearing masks and not wearing masks, now that they're no longer compulsory. On the bus, in the supermarket, and in various shops. The people not wearing them tend to be young people, who looks to be in their twenties or thirties, mostly men, the kind that sit in a manspreading way, and they look at you with a kind of defiant look when you get on the bus wearing your mask, as if daring you to challenge them.
My youngest brother is refusing to be vaccinated, and he too is very fit. I no longer argue with him, but at least I did get him to agree that our oldest brother who is in care should be vaccinated (my middle bro and I ganged up against him).
Oldest is no longer able to decide on his own medical care.
It feels like I have lost two brothers, and the third is living in the US.
I haven't been to a big supermarket yet but my experience of smaller shops is that people are mostly still masking and, on my walks, still distancing as well.
I only know one real life person who has refused vaccination and fortunately she isn't in my close circle of friends so I don't have to make decisions about seeing or not seeing her.
I'm going to do in-person church on Sunday for the first time since March 2020 and feel a tad apprehensive about it.
I'm seeing fewer and fewer masks out and about, in the shops and everywhere. Most of the supermarkets are telling everyone to continue being safe, but half their staff have stopped wearing masks, and the younger customers have pretty much stopped wearing masks since "Freedom Day". Current case numbers aren't great here, just beginning to plateau after a steady hike over the last few weeks.
We're currently boycotting Holland & Barrett (a health food store) that has told everyone that it's fine - no more masks required for staff or customers.
Another ICU surgeon who reports regularly on Twitter said of the latest 12 cases, 10 were unvaccinated, 3 have died, 3 are on life support and 3 recovered (and no, I can't remember the last group and I can't find his tweet again.)
I realised how selectively people process information when a neighbour's son, in his 50s (who works in home care, so should have had some awareness training on covid) expressed disbelief in the dangers of covid, and laughed at the idea that I was taking it seriously. He said to me 'Do you actually know anyone who's had covid?' and looked surprised and disbelieving when I said yes. So I pointed out 'So do you,' and reminded him of our neighbour who had it. He then said dismissively, 'Oh, but she didn't have it properly- she didn't die.' I reminded him that she was hospitalised for a couple of weeks and nearly died, and is still living with disabling after-effects, and he still acted as if that wasn't significant.
The only person I know personally who isn't taking the vaccine is worried about allergies. She's not stupid, or an anti-mask type - just worried that she might react to one of the ingredients in it.
I noticed much less mask wearing on my trips by train this week. Yesterday when I went to London about 75% were mask less. Interestingly though many of those were in their twenties and thirties, the teenagers seemed to be wearing them on the whole.
On London transport most people had masks on as that is still mandatory, and most were practicing social distancing too.
My son, who owns and operates a small tavern in a small town is saying this is the second week he will not get his full order of groceries in for the weekend from his supplier. And it is not a matter of switching suppliers, since they all seem to be having the same problem. Has to do with Covid coming back, lack of employees at distribution centers, and shortages caused by the drought. When farmers can't get the water they need to grow crops, things don't get to market.
I have yet to again return to in-store grocery shopping, I plan to continue to have it delivered. The 10 dollar tip I give is about 1/2 what I would be paying in gas anyway. It also is much easier on my older body not to have to carry bags up my steps. I did have to go to the bank, and drug store for Mr. Image and it was masks all around even though not required. This morning's paper said all children who will be returning to school in September must be masked as well as teachers.
I have just returned from my usual quick trip to A-di. I go every week at this tine, about 8.40 pm. It is usually very quiet, but tonight the two trolleys in front of me were full to overflowing so I had a long wait. The man in front of me and the two men behind me and another man still shopping were all unmasked.
I'm just seeing it that I need to wear an FFP3 mask (which are now generally available to buy) on the bus. I've been doing that as soon as I was able to buy these kind of masks, as there have always been people not wearing masks on the bus, and it's impossible to distance on the bus, unless there are only a couple of passengers. I just wear a regular cloth mask in the supermarket, as it's a very big supermarket, relatively easy to distance, and you're not in close vicinity of the same people for any length of time like you are on the bus.
I just turned down an event I really wanted to be part of because I didn't feel safe. They want to have either 15 or 30 people in a room speaking (depending on social distancing rules). I might have chanced that as they were going to have windows open but it's in a bit of an out of the way place, which would mean train and cabs to get there and my experience of public transport is that there's always the intimidating folk who don't mask and you can't guarantee it won't be crowded and while I think a partitioned black cab is safe, the local cabs are effectively getting into a stranger's car - no partition.
I am fully vaccinated but understand it doesn't work so well against the new variant and I'm frightened of getting long covid and not being able to work. I don't know if I'm being overcautious or not.
My son, who owns and operates a small tavern in a small town is saying this is the second week he will not get his full order of groceries in for the weekend from his supplier. And it is not a matter of switching suppliers, since they all seem to be having the same problem. Has to do with Covid coming back, lack of employees at distribution centers, and shortages caused by the drought. When farmers can't get the water they need to grow crops, things don't get to market.
I saw a report just a few minutes ago that the BNSF railway has about 30 trains a day delayed unloading containers due to lack of resources at the intermodal depots, both men and equipment.
I just turned down an event I really wanted to be part of because I didn't feel safe. They want to have either 15 or 30 people in a room speaking (depending on social distancing rules). I might have chanced that as they were going to have windows open but it's in a bit of an out of the way place, which would mean train and cabs to get there and my experience of public transport is that there's always the intimidating folk who don't mask and you can't guarantee it won't be crowded and while I think a partitioned black cab is safe, the local cabs are effectively getting into a stranger's car - no partition.
I am fully vaccinated but understand it doesn't work so well against the new variant and I'm frightened of getting long covid and not being able to work. I don't know if I'm being overcautious or not.
If you don’t have to go then don’t.
I don’t know what is your line of work and how much f2f contact is entailed. Agree crowded venue and need to use public transport is an issue.
FWIW if you are fully vaccinated the evidence suggests that if infected with delta variant clinical illness is likely not to be severe.
BTW IAAD and face this every day but this is about you not me so fair enough to make up your own mind.
I just turned down an event I really wanted to be part of because I didn't feel safe. They want to have either 15 or 30 people in a room speaking (depending on social distancing rules). I might have chanced that as they were going to have windows open but it's in a bit of an out of the way place, which would mean train and cabs to get there and my experience of public transport is that there's always the intimidating folk who don't mask and you can't guarantee it won't be crowded and while I think a partitioned black cab is safe, the local cabs are effectively getting into a stranger's car - no partition.
I am fully vaccinated but understand it doesn't work so well against the new variant and I'm frightened of getting long covid and not being able to work. I don't know if I'm being overcautious or not.
I think you are wise. I am all for trusting your gut as they say. If something does not feel right do not do it. I would think if you are worried the whole time you are going you would not enjoy it anyway.
BTW IAAD and face this every day but this is about you not me so fair enough to make up your own mind.
It's about what is necessary, really. You're right, of course, that vaccinated people are unlikely to have a severe case of Covid, but they can still spread it to other people (including kids who are too young to be vaccinated yet, and so on), which I think places a moral duty on people to eliminate unnecessary exposure from their lives.
Which means if you can do your job remotely, you should. If you can have a successful meeting on zoom, it should not be in person.
15-30 random strangers (so you don't know anything about how responsible they are) in a room you don't know, where you don't know what precautions the organizers are going to take? I can see why @Louise is concerned. It definitely looks a bit marginal.
I suspect that taxis or ubers are probably pretty OK (assuming the driver masks, and you can always open a window), but nothing would persuade me to get on a bus or train at the moment.
Yes, I was surprised they insisted on it going ahead in person because I can't see anything there that couldn't be done by zoom and where I've been an organiser of similar, I've insisted on doing things remotely to make sure everyone could feel safe.
Does the data say anything yet on the chances of an otherwise non severe infection in a vaccinated person causing long covid? That's something I haven't been able to work out.
... nothing would persuade me to get on a bus or train at the moment.
Some of us don't have that luxury. When mask-wearing became mandatory, I did it out of a sense of duty, to protect others. Now, as I see more people not bothering*, I feel that I'm doing it to protect myself, even though I'm fully Pfizered.
* I've even seen someone on the bus with a mask sticking out of his breast-pocket; I can only assume he put it on while boarding the bus in case the driver pointed out that they're still mandatory here. What a doofus.
Does the data say anything yet on the chances of an otherwise non severe infection in a vaccinated person causing long covid? That's something I haven't been able to work out.
The data seems to be unclear. There are estimates that up to 30% of unvaccinated people who developed covid symptoms also developed some form of long-covid. There is some data from Israel with vaccinated health care workers who developed covid, with some developing mild long term symptoms. The number of vaccinated people developing symptoms is small, and so the subset of them who also develop long-covid is also small - that makes determining whether long-covid is more or less prevalent in vaccinated people, or whether this is a more or less severe set of symptoms than in non-vaccinated people somewhat difficult. But, people who are vaccinated can still develop covid19 (with vastly reduced chance of severe illness) and they can still go on to develop long-covid.
Piglet, I can't understand why the government doesn't make the transport companies employ extra staff to enforce masking and check ventilation and crowding. If they genuinely can't afford it, then there needs to be public funds or nationalisation.
People who can't work remotely deserve all the protection they can get when they travel. I'm currently thinking I'll have to go back to driving which I'd rather not do for environmental reasons, but if the government won't do anything to actually make public transport consistently safe for users and expect people to put up with numpty roulette where masks are concerned, then I don't feel safe on buses and trains for long trips.
Does anyone know whether Long Covid is a more common result of Covid than post-viral conditions generally?
I had chickenpox in my mid thirties, followed by six months of post-viral issues. A friend who also had chicken pox as an adult went onto to have severe post-viral symptoms.
Obviously Covid is far more common than adult chickenpox, but is the percentage incidence similar?
I don't know but suspect that there isn't good data given how poorly understood post-viral syndromes and their possible links to auto-immune conditions are.
Chickenpox ( aka herpes zoster) is one if the group of viruses known as herpes viruses which stay hidden in the body ( usually lymphoid tissue or central nervous system) and all can recur despite formation of antibody. Chickenpox tends to recur as the dreaded shingles in older people ( and the immunosuppressed such as people with untreated HIV)and thank God is at least treatable although post-shingles pain can drag on for months.
I am not a virologist and would guess that even the virology gurus could answer your question re long COVID-yet.
I think it must vary quite a bit between different virus infections. As I mentioned, the data suggests about 30% of people who get covid develop long-covid. West Nile Virus also seems to produce an approximate 30% post viral syndrome rate. On the other hand, if most strains of 'flu and the common cold produce post viral syndrome at that rate we'd all be more or less permanently suffering fatigue and feeling generally under par, with one or more of the common additional symptoms such as headaches, swollen or aching joints etc.
I still have long covid after having suspected covid 17 months ago and my symptoms fit in with a common post-viral syndrome, a dysautonomia called postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome. I suspect that long covid is much like other post-viral syndromes, it’s just more noticeable as we have a known cause and loads of cases. I assume an increase in cases of post-viral syndrome in covid would fit with the idea that we have no prior exposure so auto-immune responses might be heightened but I’m no immunologist; my public health teaching is health promotion for general health care workers.
However, I’m not convinced of the (up to) 30% rate; a study of health care workers would include people with high rates of exposure and also groups at high risk of auto-immune disorders such as middle aged females. Men are more likely to die of covid but women are more likely to develop long covid due to different autoimmune responses between men and women. I must look at the trial data in greater detail when there are more hours in the day (much as I love reading medical papers there is no time to do so at present).
Thanks HA. No studies re documented long COVID here in Oz to date: right now ICU admissions and deaths the talk of the town. Anecdotally my ( 33 year old) nephew who contracted COVID somewhere between Sydney and NYC ( where he lives) early last year recovered quickly without sequelae.
Piglet, I can't understand why the government doesn't make the transport companies employ extra staff to enforce masking and check ventilation and crowding. If they genuinely can't afford it, then there needs to be public funds or nationalisation.
Of course they can't afford it. If you're asking for a Covid monitor on each bus, you're asking to double the number of staff, and so double the staffing costs. Almost no business can afford that.
I'm currently thinking I'll have to go back to driving which I'd rather not do for environmental reasons, but if the government won't do anything to actually make public transport consistently safe for users and expect people to put up with numpty roulette where masks are concerned, then I don't feel safe on buses and trains for long trips.
"Numpty roulette" is a nice way of summing it up.
At the moment, I have the ability to choose not to go to the places that I'd usually access by bus or train, so I choose that. But if I had to go, I'd be driving, too. Even if I could guarantee that bus drivers would enforce mask wearing, I'm not sure I'd want to spend an hour on a bus with a bunch of random strangers. It's a risk that I can avoid, so I do.
One of my otherwise smart friends told me yesterday that because the government is lifting restrictions, she too has decided that COVID is over. In her words: "I wouldn't stay home for a cold, so why would I stay home for COVID?" So yeah, there's going to be a lot of COVIDy, unmasked people wandering around.
I am double-vaxxed so have low (but not zero) concern for myself, but my God, this thing will go on forever with that sort of attitude.
Chickenpox tends to recur as the dreaded shingles in older people ( and the immunosuppressed such as people with untreated HIV)and thank God is at least treatable although post-shingles pain can drag on for months.
Just a note for those who have had chickenpox - there is a vaccination against developing shingles. It's routine here for people here when turning 65 as is a booster shot for tetanus.
The second Pfizer jab is currently being given here 3 weeks after the first. The Director General of Health has just publicly informed the Government that the recommended gap between the two jabs is longer (I already knew this due to my own reading of reputable medical sites. I've read up to 10 to 12 weeks). I'm tempted to postpone my already booked second jab, but will check with my GP first as she has better knowledge of local systems,
Buses and trams for decades had conductors as well as drivers so they certainly used to be able to afford it. This used to be the norm. Trains generally used to have both guards and ticket collectors, instead of the guard doing both. Usage fell as people got cars and privatisation encouraged cost-cutting for profit which led to using technology for staffing reductions. But if we need, because of climate change, to get people out of cars and back onto public transport in large numbers, we have to make it safe and accessible. That may need public money or nationalisation to improve staffing to provide public health inspection so long as Covid is an issue.
I've watched bus drivers on the few short trips I've taken deal with non-mask wearing numpties and it required stopping the bus and quite some courage from the driver who didn't have back up. I think it's unfair to drivers to expect them to double as security staff. And also before Covid, travelling for work as a woman alone late at night on trains, I didn't see the withdrawal of staff as a change for the better. I've seen train guards having to deal solo with aggressive drunks and think especially on night trains and trains with a lot of football support on them there needs to be more staff to make trains safe and pleasant and that's before considering anti-maskers...
I've watched bus drivers on the few short trips I've taken deal with non-mask wearing numpties and it required stopping the bus and quite some courage from the driver who didn't have back up. I think it's unfair to drivers to expect them to double as security staff.
And, quite often you'll see ads on the back of a bus saying they're hiring with rates of pay "from £10 per hour". That's basically the living wage, barely more than the minimum wage. If the bus companies expect their drivers to drive the bus and enforce the requirement to wear a mask or deal with a crowd from the football match or just out the pub at last orders then they need to pay them a decent wage rather than barely more than they're legally required to do so.
I got yelled at by some bozo who took exception to my mask. He was on the street corner with two dogs. I was more than happy to say hi to the dogs, but he hollered that they could give me covid. I said that people could do that, too. He said something about "look at Sweden" but I didn't have the energy to run down the stories. One of the first links on my search was to a story on rt.com (the Kremlin's favored mouthpiece) and I didn't want to go down that rathole.
I went to San Francisco the other day for a museum trip with friends. The train was nearly empty and so were the buses. Everybody around here wears masks on public transit -- in my county the drivers won't let maskless passengers ride. The museum was a little more crowded, but everyone was masked.
I travel on local buses almost every day. Masks are supposedly mandatory, but few of us are wearing them as the official line is not to challenge people as they may have a medical reason for not wearing them. There is no requirement for people to prove that though. Some of the drivers don't wear masks either.
Scanning the QR codes used by the track and trace system is at a very low level too.
I think New Zealanders have become very lax, especially in the South Island as there hasn't been a case in the community this year. What is often overlooked is that there are cases in Managed Isolation and it would only take a small slip up for it to get loose in the community, especially with the more virulent strains around.
Comments
The store wasn't especially busy - I tend to go at off-peak times if I can - so it didn't feel unsafe...
I haven't been to church for some time (apart from a visit to my local Place), but I hear that attendance at Our Place since *Freedom Day* has dropped quite significantly. There may be various reasons for this, but I do wonder if perhaps more people than before are wary of the effect of lifting virtually all restrictions.
Actually I do want to keep in the habit because situations can change rapidly, besides it being strongly advised. I thing many people here have become complacent.
Covid Denier pooh-poohed all this, saying it was all a waste of time, and that they found it *offensive* to have equipment sprayed after use. The Torturer's reply included the observation that washing of hands and cleaning of equipment was simply basic hygiene, and that she preferred her clients NOT to be lying in one another's sweat...
I said that as far as I was concerned, her wearing of a face covering showed consideration for me, and that I was appreciative of this, so I think that cheered her up a bit. She had been somewhat spooked by Covid Denier's attitude...
I think it's all this manufactured outrage that gets to me the most. The idiot brigade has noticed people getting offended by actually offensive (usually racist etc.) things that they say and do, and so has decided that they can claim to be offended, and this trumps actual facts.
So it's all "I'm offended by your cleaning" and "your mask makes me feel unsafe", as though that was some kind of actual real argument for anything.
It's a cynical attempt to undermine people with actual real reasons to feel unsafe.
Indeed she would, along with the rest of the practitioners at the clinic.
AFAIK, they all continue to wear face-coverings and other PPE when dealing with patients (osteopathy is rather a hands-on thing!), although the reception staff (behind their perspex screen) don't. The practitioners don't insist on clients/patients wearing face-coverings (to be honest, the Pilates exercises make me huff and puff rather a lot - my specs would steam up instantly...).
My feeling is that they are all being considerate towards their patients, as well as careful of themselves, and I really can't see why anyone would object.
But objecting has now been elevated to an art form
https://theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/04/fit-and-healthy-man-42-from-southport-who-rejected-vaccine-dies-of-covid
I came here to post the same link.
One to show vaccine skeptics 😢
...a senior intensive care registrar said she had come across only one patient in critical care who had received both vaccination doses, and that the “vast majority” of people she was seeing were “completely unvaccinated”.
By the time she sees them, it's very often too late.
It was my turn this week do do the supermarket shopping (under our rules, only 1 person per household is allowed to at the moment) and there were no maskless people amongst staff and customers. Almost everyone we see when out walking is wearing them also.
Oldest is no longer able to decide on his own medical care.
It feels like I have lost two brothers, and the third is living in the US.
I haven't been to a big supermarket yet but my experience of smaller shops is that people are mostly still masking and, on my walks, still distancing as well.
I only know one real life person who has refused vaccination and fortunately she isn't in my close circle of friends so I don't have to make decisions about seeing or not seeing her.
I'm going to do in-person church on Sunday for the first time since March 2020 and feel a tad apprehensive about it.
We're currently boycotting Holland & Barrett (a health food store) that has told everyone that it's fine - no more masks required for staff or customers.
Another ICU surgeon who reports regularly on Twitter said of the latest 12 cases, 10 were unvaccinated, 3 have died, 3 are on life support and 3 recovered (and no, I can't remember the last group and I can't find his tweet again.)
All the more surprising, perhaps, that the message does not seem to have sunk in.
Nice one, Boris.
The prospect of many people having to live shortened and miserable lives because of the disabling after-effects is also frightening.
On London transport most people had masks on as that is still mandatory, and most were practicing social distancing too.
Some shops have staff wearing masks and signs on the door requesting that customers do too.
Other shops? Not a mask in sight. No social distancing from the staff. People everywhere.
Shame , as I really really fancied an ice cream tonight .
I am fully vaccinated but understand it doesn't work so well against the new variant and I'm frightened of getting long covid and not being able to work. I don't know if I'm being overcautious or not.
I saw a report just a few minutes ago that the BNSF railway has about 30 trains a day delayed unloading containers due to lack of resources at the intermodal depots, both men and equipment.
I’d say you’re being very sensible!
I don’t know what is your line of work and how much f2f contact is entailed. Agree crowded venue and need to use public transport is an issue.
FWIW if you are fully vaccinated the evidence suggests that if infected with delta variant clinical illness is likely not to be severe.
BTW IAAD and face this every day but this is about you not me so fair enough to make up your own mind.
I think you are wise. I am all for trusting your gut as they say. If something does not feel right do not do it. I would think if you are worried the whole time you are going you would not enjoy it anyway.
It's about what is necessary, really. You're right, of course, that vaccinated people are unlikely to have a severe case of Covid, but they can still spread it to other people (including kids who are too young to be vaccinated yet, and so on), which I think places a moral duty on people to eliminate unnecessary exposure from their lives.
Which means if you can do your job remotely, you should. If you can have a successful meeting on zoom, it should not be in person.
15-30 random strangers (so you don't know anything about how responsible they are) in a room you don't know, where you don't know what precautions the organizers are going to take? I can see why @Louise is concerned. It definitely looks a bit marginal.
I suspect that taxis or ubers are probably pretty OK (assuming the driver masks, and you can always open a window), but nothing would persuade me to get on a bus or train at the moment.
Does the data say anything yet on the chances of an otherwise non severe infection in a vaccinated person causing long covid? That's something I haven't been able to work out.
* I've even seen someone on the bus with a mask sticking out of his breast-pocket; I can only assume he put it on while boarding the bus in case the driver pointed out that they're still mandatory here. What a doofus.
Piglet, I can't understand why the government doesn't make the transport companies employ extra staff to enforce masking and check ventilation and crowding. If they genuinely can't afford it, then there needs to be public funds or nationalisation.
People who can't work remotely deserve all the protection they can get when they travel. I'm currently thinking I'll have to go back to driving which I'd rather not do for environmental reasons, but if the government won't do anything to actually make public transport consistently safe for users and expect people to put up with numpty roulette where masks are concerned, then I don't feel safe on buses and trains for long trips.
I had chickenpox in my mid thirties, followed by six months of post-viral issues. A friend who also had chicken pox as an adult went onto to have severe post-viral symptoms.
Obviously Covid is far more common than adult chickenpox, but is the percentage incidence similar?
Chickenpox ( aka herpes zoster) is one if the group of viruses known as herpes viruses which stay hidden in the body ( usually lymphoid tissue or central nervous system) and all can recur despite formation of antibody. Chickenpox tends to recur as the dreaded shingles in older people ( and the immunosuppressed such as people with untreated HIV)and thank God is at least treatable although post-shingles pain can drag on for months.
I am not a virologist and would guess that even the virology gurus could answer your question re long COVID-yet.
Just my 2 bob’s worth
However, I’m not convinced of the (up to) 30% rate; a study of health care workers would include people with high rates of exposure and also groups at high risk of auto-immune disorders such as middle aged females. Men are more likely to die of covid but women are more likely to develop long covid due to different autoimmune responses between men and women. I must look at the trial data in greater detail when there are more hours in the day (much as I love reading medical papers there is no time to do so at present).
I am continuing to watch this space
"Numpty roulette" is a nice way of summing it up.
At the moment, I have the ability to choose not to go to the places that I'd usually access by bus or train, so I choose that. But if I had to go, I'd be driving, too. Even if I could guarantee that bus drivers would enforce mask wearing, I'm not sure I'd want to spend an hour on a bus with a bunch of random strangers. It's a risk that I can avoid, so I do.
I am double-vaxxed so have low (but not zero) concern for myself, but my God, this thing will go on forever with that sort of attitude.
Just a note for those who have had chickenpox - there is a vaccination against developing shingles. It's routine here for people here when turning 65 as is a booster shot for tetanus.
The second Pfizer jab is currently being given here 3 weeks after the first. The Director General of Health has just publicly informed the Government that the recommended gap between the two jabs is longer (I already knew this due to my own reading of reputable medical sites. I've read up to 10 to 12 weeks). I'm tempted to postpone my already booked second jab, but will check with my GP first as she has better knowledge of local systems,
I've watched bus drivers on the few short trips I've taken deal with non-mask wearing numpties and it required stopping the bus and quite some courage from the driver who didn't have back up. I think it's unfair to drivers to expect them to double as security staff. And also before Covid, travelling for work as a woman alone late at night on trains, I didn't see the withdrawal of staff as a change for the better. I've seen train guards having to deal solo with aggressive drunks and think especially on night trains and trains with a lot of football support on them there needs to be more staff to make trains safe and pleasant and that's before considering anti-maskers...
I went to San Francisco the other day for a museum trip with friends. The train was nearly empty and so were the buses. Everybody around here wears masks on public transit -- in my county the drivers won't let maskless passengers ride. The museum was a little more crowded, but everyone was masked.
Scanning the QR codes used by the track and trace system is at a very low level too.
I think New Zealanders have become very lax, especially in the South Island as there hasn't been a case in the community this year. What is often overlooked is that there are cases in Managed Isolation and it would only take a small slip up for it to get loose in the community, especially with the more virulent strains around.
Welcome to Baumol's cost disease. People are more expensive now.