Fifty Shades along with Dan Brown's The Da Vinci Code are two books that you are guaranteed to find in a charity bookshop. I haven't read the former, but I must confess to a soft spot for the latter. It is one of the most badly written books I've ever read and Robert Langdon one of the most useless heroes I've ever come across but it did keep me entertained
There are several Langdon books following The DaVinci Code. They are universally terrible and should be ignored by all right reading people.
Just saying.
Dan Brown has made his money - rather like E L James - by being scandalous and getting people to pick up on the scandal, rather than actually being even halfway decent writers.
I read - or tried to read - the Da Vinci code, and gave up on it - it was so dreadful.
I read it so that if any of my colleagues mentoiond it, I would have some warning of what they were talking about,
Dan Brown has made his money - rather like E L James - by being scandalous and getting people to pick up on the scandal, rather than actually being even halfway decent writers.
Well, okay, but I think we do have to wonder why previous writers of female-oriented erotica didn't have anywhere near the same degree of success that E.L. James did.
I mean, did James just happen to find a publicist who knew how to sell that kinda stuff better than anyone had managed to do before?
Fifty Shades along with Dan Brown's The Da Vinci Code are two books that you are guaranteed to find in a charity bookshop. I haven't read the former, but I must confess to a soft spot for the latter. It is one of the most badly written books I've ever read and Robert Langdon one of the most useless heroes I've ever come across but it did keep me entertained
There are several Langdon books following The DaVinci Code. They are universally terrible and should be ignored by all right reading people.
Just saying.
The first Langdon book, Angels and Demons, came before The DaVinci Code. They’re all drek, but I found them to be fun drek.
Fifty Shades along with Dan Brown's The Da Vinci Code are two books that you are guaranteed to find in a charity bookshop. I haven't read the former, but I must confess to a soft spot for the latter. It is one of the most badly written books I've ever read and Robert Langdon one of the most useless heroes I've ever come across but it did keep me entertained
There are several Langdon books following The DaVinci Code. They are universally terrible and should be ignored by all right reading people.
Just saying.
The first Langdon book, Angels and Demons, came before The DaVinci Code. They’re all drek, but I found them to be fun drek.
And, arguably, if the writer is writing to provide the reader with a fun reading experience, and he succeeds in this endeavour, the book, by definition, is NOT drek.
(Though of course this gets us into the precise definition of "drek" and related terms.)
Fifty Shades along with Dan Brown's The Da Vinci Code are two books that you are guaranteed to find in a charity bookshop.
I used to say that you could always find at least one copy of an Adrian Mole book in every charity shop. You don't see so many of them now, though; after that it was The Da Vinci Code and then it was Fifty Shades. I wonder what the next big thing will be?
(I should add that I am NOT suggesting that Adrian Mole was bad, merely that all three were the big bestsellers of the time. I've not read Da Vinci or Fifty Shades.)
A few years ago when we were trawling the charity shops, the book we saw everywhere was Thornyhold by Mary Stewart (I think it was given away free with a magazine or something).
A few years ago when we were trawling the charity shops, the book we saw everywhere was Thornyhold by Mary Stewart (I think it was given away free with a magazine or something).
Her last book I think, and a huge let down from some of her earlier novels (though even though most of those are very dated nowadays).
I can thoroughly recommend Fifty Sheds of Grey however. Who would have thought you could get so much mileage out of shed-related double-entendre and innuendo?
Obviously having a sense of humour like a malfunctioninng septic tank helps, too.
I have a quandry, I am battling with a book that was gifted to me by a dear friend. I am not enjoying this book one iota but I feel deeply obliged to finish it, and then equally want to say something positive when I next speak to her. Any tips?
Skim read it and then say, "I have read it but don't think I appreciated it as I should have. Perhaps I was missing something. Have you read it? What did you like about it?"
We were staying with family friends in Scotland, I was in a plaster cast, I'd read every book I'd taken, I'd even ploughed through The art of deer-stalking published in the 1830s, so it was the Duchess of Windsor's oeuvre or nothing.
We were staying with family friends in Scotland, I was in a plaster cast, I'd read every book I'd taken, I'd even ploughed through The art of deer-stalking published in the 1830s, so it was the Duchess of Windsor's oeuvre or nothing.
I have a quandry, I am battling with a book that was gifted to me by a dear friend. I am not enjoying this book one iota but I feel deeply obliged to finish it, and then equally want to say something positive when I next speak to her. Any tips?
I'd drop it and not raise the subject personally. If they raise the subject say you've not finished it yet.
Or just be honest - "sorry, it just wasn't my kind of thing".
I have a quandry, I am battling with a book that was gifted to me by a dear friend. I am not enjoying this book one iota but I feel deeply obliged to finish it, and then equally want to say something positive when I next speak to her. Any tips?
If you tell us what it is, some of us might be able to suggest suitably ambiguous positive comments.
As regards radio programmes, I fall back on: "it's a bit too Radio 3 for my simple brain" but that reference will be wasted on non-Brits.
We were staying with family friends in Scotland, I was in a plaster cast, I'd read every book I'd taken, I'd even ploughed through The art of deer-stalking published in the 1830s, so it was the Duchess of Windsor's oeuvre or nothing.
So how was the book?
Pretty dull though it did deliver one nugget of information that made my jaw drop.
Apparently the Windsors wanted someone to play the Wedding March and O, perfect love at their wedding in the Chateau de Candé and the only name they could come up with was Marcel Dupré, so possibly the greatest ever organist played at the wedding of the ex-king.
The art of deer-stalking was ... interesting in it's own way.
We were staying with family friends in Scotland, I was in a plaster cast, I'd read every book I'd taken, I'd even ploughed through The art of deer-stalking published in the 1830s, so it was the Duchess of Windsor's oeuvre or nothing.
So how was the book?
Pretty dull though it did deliver one nugget of information that made my jaw drop.
Apparently the Windsors wanted someone to play the Wedding March and O, perfect love at their wedding in the Chateau de Candé and the only name they could come up with was Marcel Dupré, so possibly the greatest ever organist played at the wedding of the ex-king.
Thanks.
I think to truly appreciate the jaw-dropping nature of the anecdote, one has to be familiar with the now-common image of the Edward and Wallis as sleazoids. If you had told me about that thirty years ago, before I had heard about their nazi sympathies and adulterous shenanigans, I woulda just thought "Well, makes sense that a world-class organist would play at a high-society wedding."
Elton John played at Donald Trump's wedding. And when President Trump issued a pardon for Conrad Black, one of the people cited as testifying to Black's good character was Elton John.
I have a quandry, I am battling with a book that was gifted to me by a dear friend. I am not enjoying this book one iota but I feel deeply obliged to finish it, and then equally want to say something positive when I next speak to her. Any tips?
If you tell us what it is, some of us might be able to suggest suitably ambiguous positive comments.
As regards radio programmes, I fall back on: "it's a bit too Radio 3 for my simple brain" but that reference will be wasted on non-Brits.
The book is Still Life by Sarah Winman - Sunday Times bestseller. I've sort of got into it but I am struggling to connect with any of the characters - I'm not sure if that is because of the lack of inverted commas around speech (!) or what.
It will be marked in my view a book I shouldn't have read but did - purely because it was a gift and I know my friend will want to chat about it.
I appreciate the thoughts of what to say to my friend - would that I had the oomph to say that I didn't like it (in a nice way) - and anyone who has read it and has any beautiful insights please do let me know.
Given it's Sunday Times status, I may well be inundated with comments about how great it was !
I visit Goodreads if I want some informed reviews and you may find the section on "Still Life" interesting. There are a couple of less-than-enthusiastic reviews on that first page: one from Polly (about halfway down) and one from Sophie (near the bottom). I find other people can sometimes express what I feel better than I can myself, particularly if it's a book I'm not getting on with.
the lack of inverted commas around speech (!) or what.
Steinbeck used the same technique in The Grapes Of Wrath, but only in certain chapters, where the speech was not meant to be the reported words of a particular character, but rather a synechdoche for sentiments that were being expressed across the USA during the Depression.
When the men from the banks came to take the farms, the farmers talked back. How can they take this land from me? My family's been here forever. My grandaddy cut this land out of the bush. I ain't goin' nowhere. But the men from the banks didn't listen.
(That's not a verbatim quote, just going from memory.)
I picked up a book called "The Republic of Trees" in a charity shop. It is sort of Lord of the Flies, but less well written. And less well plotted. And just - less good, but a long way.
Also, I publish on Lulu, so I thought I would check out a few of the free books people have published there.
Hugely grateful for the input on Still Life by Sarah Winman. It remains consigned to the pile of "Books I shouldn't have read but did". Despite the mostly rave reviews and accolades it received, it never did it for me. It felt too chaotic and random and I never really understood the whole caboodle. I will tactfully say something to my friend who gave it to me - she is going to read it this month for her book club and it will be good to get her take on it as well.
Hugely grateful for the input on Still Life by Sarah Winman. It remains consigned to the pile of "Books I shouldn't have read but did". Despite the mostly rave reviews and accolades it received, it never did it for me.
I don't know it, but I just read a review in 'The Guardian' which was enthusiastic but not in a way that made me feel I had to put it on my library list, still less buy it.
It's funny how one can read a book about on a subject one knows nothing about (thinking of, say, 'Longitude' by Dava Sobel) and it's fine - maybe because the author works hard to help the reader understand. But books on Art and Music (especially Opera), present a real problem for me, perhaps because the author assumes I know or at least care enough. Well, at least with Art, one can look at images online.
I suppose I might fall back on "I guess I'm just too much of a peasant...." but (apart from being unfair to peasants) that's perhaps not a fair response to a friend's enthusiasm. I might say, "I just couldn't get my head around it, and maybe that's because I don't really know enough about..." which is essentially saying the same thing, I suppose, but maybe sounds more polite.
I am so grateful for all the comments about what to say - Miss Manners has never really covered the response to a gifted book that you can't get on with.
IMHO that's because you're not supposed to inquire closely into the response of the book's recipient, just in case this very thing happens. The inquiry itself is improper.
I've learned to say things like "It's certainly an unusual book," or "It's not quite like anything I've come across before." Rather like what you say about ugly babies--"My, that certainly is a baby!"
IMHO that's because you're not supposed to inquire closely into the response of the book's recipient, just in case this very thing happens. The inquiry itself is improper.
As someone who does occasionally give books as gifts, I think this is exactly right -- you give the gift and hope the recipient enjoys it, but knowing how subjective taste in books is, it's impolite to ask what they thought of it unless they offer an opinion.
IMHO that's because you're not supposed to inquire closely into the response of the book's recipient, just in case this very thing happens. The inquiry itself is improper.
As someone who does occasionally give books as gifts, I think this is exactly right -- you give the gift and hope the recipient enjoys it, but knowing how subjective taste in books is, it's impolite to ask what they thought of it unless they offer an opinion.
I have lent books to people and asked them what they thought of it - the idea basically being "I think you will enjoy this, and if you enjoy this then I have a pile of other things you'll probably also enjoy, but if you don't enjoy this, then let's talk about why because you might not like the rest of my pile either."
I could certainly see doing the same with a gift instead - if you live some distance away, or mistreat books, I might be better off buying you your own copy rather than lending mine. And if I ask, it's because I want to know what I should buy for you / recommend to you next, and not because I'm angling for gratitude.
If someone gives me a book, I am happy to give unsolicited positive responses, but I'm not going to tell them that I hated the book unless they ask. Because telling you unsolicited that I hate your book looks ungrateful and mean-spirited.
I find Dickens too verbose by three quarters. He reminds me of Victorian newspaper accounts of railway openings that speak of linking the Great Emporium of the North to the Metropolis, and describe the exact material and colour of the dresses worn by the Directors' wives.
Mrs RR had to read 'Portnoy's Complaint' at college. I decided it would be a good husbandly thing to do to read it with her (I was very young). I really wish I hadn't. I could never look at liver the same afterwards. Just horrid. Oh yes, 'Catcher in the Rye' as well. Ugh!
Fortunately she then introduced me to the Narnia books ......
That's generally been my experience with Virginia Woolf, although I found Mrs. Dalloway a bit easier to follow on my second read than on my first several decades earlier. Like a lot of Great Writers, Woolf is not someone I'd pick up to read for pleasure.
I find Dickens too verbose by three quarters. He reminds me of Victorian newspaper accounts of railway openings that speak of linking the Great Emporium of the North to the Metropolis, and describe the exact material and colour of the dresses worn by the Directors' wives.
Mrs RR had to read 'Portnoy's Complaint' at college. I decided it would be a good husbandly thing to do to read it with her (I was very young). I really wish I hadn't. I could never look at liver the same afterwards. Just horrid. Oh yes, 'Catcher in the Rye' as well.
I don't read a lotta fiction, so I never got around to reading my copy of Portnoy's Complaint, or anything else by Roth. I've seen a few movies based on his works, it seemed like they were trying to make the stereotypical male midlife-crisis thing seem profound.
As for Catcher In The Rye, I worshipped that book in high-school, until one of my teachers made the argument that all the book really does is reflect the viewpoint of its intended teenaged audience back to them(aka preaching to the converted). I still think it's a well-written book, and "nobody ever gets your message" has become my personal mantra(though I mean it more literally than Salinger probably intended; examples available upon request).
As for Catcher In The Rye, I worshipped that book in high-school, until one of my teachers made the argument that all the book really does is reflect the viewpoint of its intended teenaged audience back to them(aka preaching to the converted).
While that is true, it was radical because it did that. No other book of the time reflected a teenagers worldview back to them as valid.
As with so many ground-breaking books, it feels tame now, but only because of what it did. Because so many others have followed the idea.
That's generally been my experience with Virginia Woolf, although I found Mrs. Dalloway a bit easier to follow on my second read than on my first several decades earlier. Like a lot of Great Writers, Woolf is not someone I'd pick up to read for pleasure.
I would agree, while also commenting that there are more reasons than just pleasure to read - expansion of the mind, education. To require everything we read - even fiction - to be "pleasurable" is to diminish the power of fiction. And I am not suggesting Trudy that you are doing this, but it is a danger.
Having said that - Dickens, I can never get on with. I find the visual adaptions far more engaging.
Dickens is one that I have found has grown on me with age -- I have a lot more patience with his style now than I did when I was younger. And I agree, there are lots of books I read that aren't read primarily for pleasure; Virginia Woolf would definitely be in that category.
I really liked Mrs Dalloway, which I studied during my first degree. Whereas I hated Dickens’ Hard Times with a passion and never finished it, relying on the Cliff notes for the exam (as mentioned previously, I think). It was parodied by other students in a revue during the module residential (I studied my degree via distance learning) so the loathing was clearly shared.
George Orwell is very good on Dickens; his critique of the overblown writing Dickens is addicted to seems to me spot on. But it was the 'soap' of the day, as equally absurd as, say, 'Eastenders', I (and Mrs RR) can leave 'em both out, don't you know.
On another topic, recuperating from Covid 19, I tried to reread John Buchan. It was, alas, impossible.
Perhaps we need a heavenly thread on 'comfort reading'?
One of mine is 'The History of Mr Polly'.
<snip>On another topic, recuperating from Covid 19, I tried to reread John Buchan. It was, alas, impossible.<snip>
I’m curious to know which Buchan. I find him a very varied author with a great aptitude for place. His Hannay ‘shockers’ are different from his Dickson McCunn (Gorbals Diehards) stories, and different again from his historical novels.
(I do find his ‘scientific racism’ difficult, though, in which respect Kipling (ten years Buchan’s senior) comes out rather better - though his vocal support of Empire made/makes Kipling much more politically unpopular.)
<snip>On another topic, recuperating from Covid 19, I tried to reread John Buchan. It was, alas, impossible.<snip>
I’m curious to know which Buchan. I find him a very varied author with a great aptitude for place. His Hannay ‘shockers’ are different from his Dickson McCunn (Gorbals Diehards) stories, and different again from his historical novels.
(I do find his ‘scientific racism’ difficult, though, in which respect Kipling (ten years Buchan’s senior) comes out rather better - though his vocal support of Empire made/makes Kipling much more politically unpopular.)
It was the Richard Hannay collection. I found the writing inspissated.
As for Catcher In The Rye, I worshipped that book in high-school, until one of my teachers made the argument that all the book really does is reflect the viewpoint of its intended teenaged audience back to them(aka preaching to the converted).
While that is true, it was radical because it did that. No other book of the time reflected a teenagers worldview back to them as valid.
As with so many ground-breaking books, it feels tame now, but only because of what it did. Because so many others have followed the idea.
That's a valid point. The context of the debate with my teacher was whether or not the book should be taught in schools. Not sure what the teacher thought about the book in general.
And yeah, it's hard to imagine the canons of eg. Paul Zindel and Robert Cormier being written without Salinger as a forerunner.
Comments
There are several Langdon books following The DaVinci Code. They are universally terrible and should be ignored by all right reading people.
Just saying.
I read it so that if any of my colleagues mentoiond it, I would have some warning of what they were talking about,
Well, okay, but I think we do have to wonder why previous writers of female-oriented erotica didn't have anywhere near the same degree of success that E.L. James did.
I mean, did James just happen to find a publicist who knew how to sell that kinda stuff better than anyone had managed to do before?
And, arguably, if the writer is writing to provide the reader with a fun reading experience, and he succeeds in this endeavour, the book, by definition, is NOT drek.
(Though of course this gets us into the precise definition of "drek" and related terms.)
I used to say that you could always find at least one copy of an Adrian Mole book in every charity shop. You don't see so many of them now, though; after that it was The Da Vinci Code and then it was Fifty Shades. I wonder what the next big thing will be?
(I should add that I am NOT suggesting that Adrian Mole was bad, merely that all three were the big bestsellers of the time. I've not read Da Vinci or Fifty Shades.)
Her last book I think, and a huge let down from some of her earlier novels (though even though most of those are very dated nowadays).
Obviously having a sense of humour like a malfunctioninng septic tank helps, too.
We were staying with family friends in Scotland, I was in a plaster cast, I'd read every book I'd taken, I'd even ploughed through The art of deer-stalking published in the 1830s, so it was the Duchess of Windsor's oeuvre or nothing.
So how was the book?
I'd drop it and not raise the subject personally. If they raise the subject say you've not finished it yet.
Or just be honest - "sorry, it just wasn't my kind of thing".
As regards radio programmes, I fall back on: "it's a bit too Radio 3 for my simple brain" but that reference will be wasted on non-Brits.
Pretty dull though it did deliver one nugget of information that made my jaw drop.
Apparently the Windsors wanted someone to play the Wedding March and O, perfect love at their wedding in the Chateau de Candé and the only name they could come up with was Marcel Dupré, so possibly the greatest ever organist played at the wedding of the ex-king.
The art of deer-stalking was ... interesting in it's own way.
Thanks.
I think to truly appreciate the jaw-dropping nature of the anecdote, one has to be familiar with the now-common image of the Edward and Wallis as sleazoids. If you had told me about that thirty years ago, before I had heard about their nazi sympathies and adulterous shenanigans, I woulda just thought "Well, makes sense that a world-class organist would play at a high-society wedding."
Elton John played at Donald Trump's wedding. And when President Trump issued a pardon for Conrad Black, one of the people cited as testifying to Black's good character was Elton John.
EJ - DJT - CB That really is a rather unsavoury daisy chain.
The book is Still Life by Sarah Winman - Sunday Times bestseller. I've sort of got into it but I am struggling to connect with any of the characters - I'm not sure if that is because of the lack of inverted commas around speech (!) or what.
It will be marked in my view a book I shouldn't have read but did - purely because it was a gift and I know my friend will want to chat about it.
I appreciate the thoughts of what to say to my friend - would that I had the oomph to say that I didn't like it (in a nice way) - and anyone who has read it and has any beautiful insights please do let me know.
Given it's Sunday Times status, I may well be inundated with comments about how great it was !
Steinbeck used the same technique in The Grapes Of Wrath, but only in certain chapters, where the speech was not meant to be the reported words of a particular character, but rather a synechdoche for sentiments that were being expressed across the USA during the Depression.
(That's not a verbatim quote, just going from memory.)
Also, I publish on Lulu, so I thought I would check out a few of the free books people have published there.
Wow, there is some trash available.
It's funny how one can read a book about on a subject one knows nothing about (thinking of, say, 'Longitude' by Dava Sobel) and it's fine - maybe because the author works hard to help the reader understand. But books on Art and Music (especially Opera), present a real problem for me, perhaps because the author assumes I know or at least care enough. Well, at least with Art, one can look at images online.
I suppose I might fall back on "I guess I'm just too much of a peasant...." but (apart from being unfair to peasants) that's perhaps not a fair response to a friend's enthusiasm. I might say, "I just couldn't get my head around it, and maybe that's because I don't really know enough about..." which is essentially saying the same thing, I suppose, but maybe sounds more polite.
I've learned to say things like "It's certainly an unusual book," or "It's not quite like anything I've come across before." Rather like what you say about ugly babies--"My, that certainly is a baby!"
As someone who does occasionally give books as gifts, I think this is exactly right -- you give the gift and hope the recipient enjoys it, but knowing how subjective taste in books is, it's impolite to ask what they thought of it unless they offer an opinion.
I have lent books to people and asked them what they thought of it - the idea basically being "I think you will enjoy this, and if you enjoy this then I have a pile of other things you'll probably also enjoy, but if you don't enjoy this, then let's talk about why because you might not like the rest of my pile either."
I could certainly see doing the same with a gift instead - if you live some distance away, or mistreat books, I might be better off buying you your own copy rather than lending mine. And if I ask, it's because I want to know what I should buy for you / recommend to you next, and not because I'm angling for gratitude.
If someone gives me a book, I am happy to give unsolicited positive responses, but I'm not going to tell them that I hated the book unless they ask. Because telling you unsolicited that I hate your book looks ungrateful and mean-spirited.
Fortunately she then introduced me to the Narnia books ......
I couldn't bear it from start to finish and mercifully it was a short book. I never understood what was going on, or who was who.
This is how all the "classics" read to me.
I don't read a lotta fiction, so I never got around to reading my copy of Portnoy's Complaint, or anything else by Roth. I've seen a few movies based on his works, it seemed like they were trying to make the stereotypical male midlife-crisis thing seem profound.
As for Catcher In The Rye, I worshipped that book in high-school, until one of my teachers made the argument that all the book really does is reflect the viewpoint of its intended teenaged audience back to them(aka preaching to the converted). I still think it's a well-written book, and "nobody ever gets your message" has become my personal mantra(though I mean it more literally than Salinger probably intended; examples available upon request).
While that is true, it was radical because it did that. No other book of the time reflected a teenagers worldview back to them as valid.
As with so many ground-breaking books, it feels tame now, but only because of what it did. Because so many others have followed the idea.
I would agree, while also commenting that there are more reasons than just pleasure to read - expansion of the mind, education. To require everything we read - even fiction - to be "pleasurable" is to diminish the power of fiction. And I am not suggesting Trudy that you are doing this, but it is a danger.
Having said that - Dickens, I can never get on with. I find the visual adaptions far more engaging.
On another topic, recuperating from Covid 19, I tried to reread John Buchan. It was, alas, impossible.
Perhaps we need a heavenly thread on 'comfort reading'?
One of mine is 'The History of Mr Polly'.
For Dickens I think you have to be in the right mood. Quite often the overblown writing style is supposed to be funny.
Which would be fine if it actually were.
(I do find his ‘scientific racism’ difficult, though, in which respect Kipling (ten years Buchan’s senior) comes out rather better - though his vocal support of Empire made/makes Kipling much more politically unpopular.)
It was the Richard Hannay collection. I found the writing inspissated.
That's a valid point. The context of the debate with my teacher was whether or not the book should be taught in schools. Not sure what the teacher thought about the book in general.
And yeah, it's hard to imagine the canons of eg. Paul Zindel and Robert Cormier being written without Salinger as a forerunner.