I expect he will turn out to be the best PM so far this decade.
If we start the decade from 2021 he stands a good chance of being the best PM of the last decade as well.
It's also humbling that a Goldman Sachs alumnus can reach the apex of British society. Let me add that I have a Co-op bank account, so I am not far behind.
It's an interesting fact that Sunak is the first PM of colour, and the first practising Hindu PM, but it's something not especially worthy of remark (as I think Grant Shapps has said), given the ethnic and cultural diversity of England.
Whether the right-wing antipathy to Horrid Brown Foreign People Not Like Us will be affected remains to be seen.
It's an interesting fact that Sunak is the first PM of colour, and the first practising Hindu PM, but it's something not especially worthy of remark (as I think Grant Shapps has said), given the ethnic and cultural diversity of England.
And nor can his manner of accession be separated out from its fact.
It's quite funny that Tory members rejected Sunak a few weeks ago, but then he has been neither rejected or accepted by voters, unless you are a Tory MP.
Amazing you want to consign Rishi Sunak to hell even before he does something deserving of hell. We Americans were able to keep the thread of our former president in Purgatory for the whole four years. And we are able to continue a thread of his troubles there the last two years. I am in agreement with Alan, let him do something first; though, ultimately, I know it will be reduced services and higher taxes at least in the short term. I have also heard some right wing Tories consider him too pro EU. He just might save your island kingdom.
Is anyone planning to celebrate the fact that we now have a PM who isn't white?
So representation is important now?
You tell me. Is representation important, or is it only important if it wears the right colour rosette?
It's important in the aggregate, but not so much at the individual level.
I like to phrase it this way...
"I'm glad we live in a country where it is now possible for a PoC to ascend to the top, but I am not happy about this particular person ascending to the top."
Is anyone planning to celebrate the fact that we now have a PM who isn't white?
So representation is important now?
You tell me. Is representation important, or is it only important if it wears the right colour rosette?
It's important in the aggregate, but not so much at the individual level.
I like to phrase it this way...
"I'm glad we live in a country where it is now possible for a PoC to ascend to the top, but I am not happy about this particular person ascending to the top."
Is anyone planning to celebrate the fact that we now have a PM who isn't white?
So representation is important now?
You tell me. Is representation important, or is it only important if it wears the right colour rosette?
It's important in the aggregate, but not so much at the individual level.
I like to phrase it this way...
"I'm glad we live in a country where it is now possible for a PoC to ascend to the top, but I am not happy about this particular person ascending to the top."
Wrong party ?
Well, people choose their parties based on how the party's principles align with theirs, so it's not like it's arbitrary.
Amazing you want to consign Rishi Sunak to hell even before he does something deserving of hell
I'm struggling to see "consign to Hell" on the thread.
Johnson had one. Truss had one immediately she took the job, just in case it be needed. Just being fair to Sunak giving him one too.
I want to be clear...
I started both the Johnson and Truss threads. In neither case was I forming a premature judgement on either. I was predicting, on the basis of a very clear record, over several years, what a government led by those two would look like. The OP for the Johnson thread was specific on why such a thread would be needed. Eleven thousand comments and two hundred thousand views support my position. Similarly, for Truss, I indicated (although without the justification being spelled out) an expectation that it would fulfil a need.
Sunak does not have Johnson's record of dishonesty noñr Truss's of incompetence. That is only a matter of scale. Is he better than the last two Prime Ministers? Almost certainly. But his record ain't all that great either.
Is anyone planning to celebrate the fact that we now have a PM who isn't white?
So representation is important now?
You tell me. Is representation important, or is it only important if it wears the right colour rosette?
It's important in the aggregate, but not so much at the individual level.
I like to phrase it this way...
"I'm glad we live in a country where it is now possible for a PoC to ascend to the top, but I am not happy about this particular person ascending to the top."
Wrong party ?
Well, people choose their parties based on how the party's principles align with theirs, so it's not like it's arbitrary.
I don't have a party. I try and make the most logical choice every time I vote. Rishi has good principles. I guess thats why Rishi is a Conservative.
Re representation, the past two Home Secretaries have been women of colour - yet have both been enthusiastically pushing racist policies that particularly negatively affect women of colour. In the same way, I doubt Sunak will be responsible for policies that support British Asian communities but I do expect cuts for services that marginalised groups rely on.
It's more than possible that at least two of the three great offices of state will be held by British Asians. Yes, that's significant - and it is fair to say that people of colour have been far more visible and more senior within the Tory party than within other UK parties (and certainly, Labour has a serious racism problem). But while visibility matters, policy matters more.
Re representation, the past two Home Secretaries have been women of colour - yet have both been enthusiastically pushing racist policies that particularly negatively affect women of colour. In the same way, I doubt Sunak will be responsible for policies that support British Asian communities but I do expect cuts for services that marginalised groups rely on.
It's more than possible that at least two of the three great offices of state will be held by British Asians. Yes, that's significant - and it is fair to say that people of colour have been far more visible and more senior within the Tory party than within other UK parties (and certainly, Labour has a serious racism problem). But while visibility matters, policy matters more.
Re representation, the past two Home Secretaries have been women of colour - yet have both been enthusiastically pushing racist policies that particularly negatively affect women of colour. In the same way, I doubt Sunak will be responsible for policies that support British Asian communities but I do expect cuts for services that marginalised groups rely on.
It's more than possible that at least two of the three great offices of state will be held by British Asians. Yes, that's significant - and it is fair to say that people of colour have been far more visible and more senior within the Tory party than within other UK parties (and certainly, Labour has a serious racism problem). But while visibility matters, policy matters more.
Re representation, the past two Home Secretaries have been women of colour - yet have both been enthusiastically pushing racist policies that particularly negatively affect women of colour. In the same way, I doubt Sunak will be responsible for policies that support British Asian communities but I do expect cuts for services that marginalised groups rely on.
A materialist analysis can be helpful, coupled with some biographic information about background as well as the kinds of people recruited to certain parties. In most societies, it's a rare person of privilege who has much practical empathy with those who are less fortunate, and there's no solidarity gene that goes along with ethnicity.
Re representation, the past two Home Secretaries have been women of colour - yet have both been enthusiastically pushing racist policies that particularly negatively affect women of colour. In the same way, I doubt Sunak will be responsible for policies that support British Asian communities but I do expect cuts for services that marginalised groups rely on.
It's more than possible that at least two of the three great offices of state will be held by British Asians. Yes, that's significant - and it is fair to say that people of colour have been far more visible and more senior within the Tory party than within other UK parties (and certainly, Labour has a serious racism problem). But while visibility matters, policy matters more.
Agreed.
Evidence?
The reports from many Asian (particularly Muslim) and Black members, not to mention the disgusting leaked Whatsapp messages from party staff, certainly indicate it's widespread. Of course the latter were centrists so the media don't care.
Re representation, the past two Home Secretaries have been women of colour - yet have both been enthusiastically pushing racist policies that particularly negatively affect women of colour. In the same way, I doubt Sunak will be responsible for policies that support British Asian communities but I do expect cuts for services that marginalised groups rely on.
It's more than possible that at least two of the three great offices of state will be held by British Asians. Yes, that's significant - and it is fair to say that people of colour have been far more visible and more senior within the Tory party than within other UK parties (and certainly, Labour has a serious racism problem). But while visibility matters, policy matters more.
Agreed.
Evidence?
Why are you asking me? Why aren't you asking the person who's post I quoted ?
Rishi Sunak married the daughter of a billionaire, but his wife isn't a billionaire either ... net worth is only about £700m if I remember the details of her wealth from the stories about what tax she paid earlier this year. Though, when her father dies and she inherits some of his fortune that will change radically.
Rishi Sunak had a career in finance, hedge funds and the like, and was a multi-millionaire before he got married. I don't know how his personal wealth independent of his wife works out (they own several properties, but I expect it's more the case that she owns them), but needless to say someone who hasn't got a few million quid in the bank isn't going to meet someone like Akshata Murty - except as an ignored member of staff. Even if he'd never met and married someone spectacularly wealthy he'd still be a multi-millionaire and the richest PM in modern times.
Re representation, the past two Home Secretaries have been women of colour - yet have both been enthusiastically pushing racist policies that particularly negatively affect women of colour.
It’s generally said around here that what counts as racist should be defined by people of colour. Do you agree with that, or is it something that only applies when the people of colour say something is racist and not when they say something isn’t?
Is anyone planning to celebrate the fact that we now have a PM who isn't white?
So representation is important now?
You tell me. Is representation important, or is it only important if it wears the right colour rosette?
It's important in the aggregate, but not so much at the individual level.
I like to phrase it this way...
"I'm glad we live in a country where it is now possible for a PoC to ascend to the top, but I am not happy about this particular person ascending to the top."
Wrong party ?
Not neccessarily. I could imagine a situation where I like the party overall, but am distraught that one particular unsuitable individual made it to the top of government with that party as his vehicle.
But they'd probably be few and far between. As @KarlLB implies, if you like the party, it's prob'ly the case that you will like any candidate from that party, at least compared to candidates from rival parties.
(Abour an hour ago, I voted in my first Ottawa municipal election. My choice for mayor was someone I know next-to-nothing about, beyond that she was once a member of Canada's main left-wing party, and still holds left-wing views. And that was the entire basis for my decision.)
Abour an hour ago, I voted in my first Ottawa municipal election. My choice for mayor was someone I know next-to-nothing about, beyond that she was once a member of Canada's main left-wing party, and still holds left-wing views. And that was the entire basis for my decision.
Re representation, the past two Home Secretaries have been women of colour - yet have both been enthusiastically pushing racist policies that particularly negatively affect women of colour. In the same way, I doubt Sunak will be responsible for policies that support British Asian communities but I do expect cuts for services that marginalised groups rely on.
It's more than possible that at least two of the three great offices of state will be held by British Asians. Yes, that's significant - and it is fair to say that people of colour have been far more visible and more senior within the Tory party than within other UK parties (and certainly, Labour has a serious racism problem). But while visibility matters, policy matters more.
Agreed.
Evidence?
The reports from many Asian (particularly Muslim) and Black members, not to mention the disgusting leaked Whatsapp messages from party staff, certainly indicate it's widespread. Of course the latter were centrists so the media don't care.
Thanks for the reply. I won't take it further in this thread as I don't want to derail it here; but do you have a link? Thanks.
Re representation, the past two Home Secretaries have been women of colour - yet have both been enthusiastically pushing racist policies that particularly negatively affect women of colour. In the same way, I doubt Sunak will be responsible for policies that support British Asian communities but I do expect cuts for services that marginalised groups rely on.
It's more than possible that at least two of the three great offices of state will be held by British Asians. Yes, that's significant - and it is fair to say that people of colour have been far more visible and more senior within the Tory party than within other UK parties (and certainly, Labour has a serious racism problem). But while visibility matters, policy matters more.
Agreed.
Evidence?
The reports from many Asian (particularly Muslim) and Black members, not to mention the disgusting leaked Whatsapp messages from party staff, certainly indicate it's widespread. Of course the latter were centrists so the media don't care.
Thanks for the reply. I won't take it further in this thread as I don't want to derail it here; but do you have a link? Thanks.
Comments
If we start the decade from 2021 he stands a good chance of being the best PM of the last decade as well.
Hey, perhaps it'll sink without trace. Cynical optimism if you like.
Yes:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/oct/24/rishi-sunak-becomes-first-british-pm-of-colour-and-also-first-hindu-at-no-10
Good luck to him - he's going to need it...
So representation is important now?
You tell me. Is representation important, or is it only important if it wears the right colour rosette?
I am celebrating that the best person for the job won this time.
It's important in the aggregate, but not so much at the individual level.
Whether the right-wing antipathy to Horrid Brown Foreign People Not Like Us will be affected remains to be seen.
And nor can his manner of accession be separated out from its fact.
Quite right - but don't forget his underwhelming performance as Chancellor not so very long ago...
Compared to Truss and Kwarteng, "underwhelming" is a big step up.
Are you on about all that money spent on that furlough scheme ?
True enough.
I'm struggling to see "consign to Hell" on the thread.
Johnson had one. Truss had one immediately she took the job, just in case it be needed. Just being fair to Sunak giving him one too.
I like to phrase it this way...
"I'm glad we live in a country where it is now possible for a PoC to ascend to the top, but I am not happy about this particular person ascending to the top."
Wrong party ?
Well, people choose their parties based on how the party's principles align with theirs, so it's not like it's arbitrary.
There were lots of Trump threads during those four years, including some in Hell.
I want to be clear...
I started both the Johnson and Truss threads. In neither case was I forming a premature judgement on either. I was predicting, on the basis of a very clear record, over several years, what a government led by those two would look like. The OP for the Johnson thread was specific on why such a thread would be needed. Eleven thousand comments and two hundred thousand views support my position. Similarly, for Truss, I indicated (although without the justification being spelled out) an expectation that it would fulfil a need.
Sunak does not have Johnson's record of dishonesty noñr Truss's of incompetence. That is only a matter of scale. Is he better than the last two Prime Ministers? Almost certainly. But his record ain't all that great either.
AFZ
I don't have a party. I try and make the most logical choice every time I vote. Rishi has good principles. I guess thats why Rishi is a Conservative.
It's more than possible that at least two of the three great offices of state will be held by British Asians. Yes, that's significant - and it is fair to say that people of colour have been far more visible and more senior within the Tory party than within other UK parties (and certainly, Labour has a serious racism problem). But while visibility matters, policy matters more.
Evidence?
A materialist analysis can be helpful, coupled with some biographic information about background as well as the kinds of people recruited to certain parties. In most societies, it's a rare person of privilege who has much practical empathy with those who are less fortunate, and there's no solidarity gene that goes along with ethnicity.
First, like all children he didn't choose the school, his parents did. And they got the money to send him to Winchester through hard work.
Second, he isn't a billionaire, his wife is the child if a billionaire. Most people now accept that women have their own property rights.
The reports from many Asian (particularly Muslim) and Black members, not to mention the disgusting leaked Whatsapp messages from party staff, certainly indicate it's widespread. Of course the latter were centrists so the media don't care.
I heard tonight that there are 167 billionaires in the UK....Source...Eggheads
Buying advantages for ones children over ordinary folk whose equally hard work has been less lucrative always sticks in my craw.
Of course, but he's hardly going to be living a life of economic hardship while his missus is loaded, is he?
It's all money, contacts, influence. Those who have none of those are squeezed out.
Rishi Sunak had a career in finance, hedge funds and the like, and was a multi-millionaire before he got married. I don't know how his personal wealth independent of his wife works out (they own several properties, but I expect it's more the case that she owns them), but needless to say someone who hasn't got a few million quid in the bank isn't going to meet someone like Akshata Murty - except as an ignored member of staff. Even if he'd never met and married someone spectacularly wealthy he'd still be a multi-millionaire and the richest PM in modern times.
It’s generally said around here that what counts as racist should be defined by people of colour. Do you agree with that, or is it something that only applies when the people of colour say something is racist and not when they say something isn’t?
Not neccessarily. I could imagine a situation where I like the party overall, but am distraught that one particular unsuitable individual made it to the top of government with that party as his vehicle.
But they'd probably be few and far between. As @KarlLB implies, if you like the party, it's prob'ly the case that you will like any candidate from that party, at least compared to candidates from rival parties.
(Abour an hour ago, I voted in my first Ottawa municipal election. My choice for mayor was someone I know next-to-nothing about, beyond that she was once a member of Canada's main left-wing party, and still holds left-wing views. And that was the entire basis for my decision.)
Salve Green-eyed monster
My candidate lost.
At least your billionaire is a billionaire, and he is educated. Our "billionaire" could not string a coherent sentence together for the life of him.
Call for justice and fairness and someone will always accuse you of envy. It is human nature; I am resigned to it.
Thanks for the reply. I won't take it further in this thread as I don't want to derail it here; but do you have a link? Thanks.
AFZ
The Guardian published this a few weeks back before it was allowed to sink without trace:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/oct/02/labour-party-racism-allegations-prejudice-keir-starmer
The Forde Report, which describes the unpunished racism of senior staff (particularly directed at Diane Abbott) is here:
https://www.fordeinquiry.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/The-Forde-Report.pdf