Heaven 2023: April Book Group - Rebecca
"Last night I dreamt I went to Manderley again" is surely one of the most famous and evocative opening lines in literature.
April's pick of the month is Daphne du Maurier's classic gothic novel, Rebecca.
Working abroad as a lady's companion, the unnamed narrator of the novel meets the recently widowed Maxim de Winter. Reader, she marries him. On returning with him to his beautiful West Country estate she finds it haunted by the presence of his first wife, Rebecca. With suspense and surprises, the truth about Rebecca unfolds.
I hope everyone enjoys the read!
April's pick of the month is Daphne du Maurier's classic gothic novel, Rebecca.
Working abroad as a lady's companion, the unnamed narrator of the novel meets the recently widowed Maxim de Winter. Reader, she marries him. On returning with him to his beautiful West Country estate she finds it haunted by the presence of his first wife, Rebecca. With suspense and surprises, the truth about Rebecca unfolds.
I hope everyone enjoys the read!
Comments
It is an incredibly powerful book. Loved it. Noir fiction at its best.
Is this your first reading or a reread?
Did you enjoy the book? Any particularly striking passages?
Did you find it convincing, both in terms of the story and the depictions of the characters?
What would you say are some of the key themes of the book?
Did you see what I did there?
Other thoughts and topics for discussion?
Is this your first reading or a reread?
This was my first read, but I have watched the most recent T.V. adaption.
Did you enjoy the book? Any particularly striking passages?
I enjoyed the book. I found it much easier to engage with the story than when I watched the movie, because the book has more background information and the second Mrs. de Winter's thought processes. The second Mrs. de Winter was also too attractive in the movie - Hollywood can't seem to choose a genuinely plain or dowdy actress for leading roles.
I can't pick out any individual striking passages, but the Gothic descriptions of the house, gardens and coast added to the atmosphere and made the novel a lot more unsettling than the story itself.
I'm a bit conflicted that Maxim got away with murder, even if goaded into it by Rebecca, who wanted to die. But he was punished in the long run. I did understand why he wanted to murder Rebecca, and feeling trapped by fears that Rebecca would charm and convince everybody he was the bad one if he separated or divorced her. However many men of that era acted exactly like Rebecca, including fathering illegitimate children, and their wives were just expected to put up with it.
Did you find it convincing, both in terms of the story and the depictions of the characters?
I found the first half of the story more convincing than the second. As someone who also suffers from social awkwardness and anxiety, especially when I was younger, I found Mrs. de Winter's experiences too relatable. I am extremely glad to never have married a rich man and been expected to manage a manor house and be a society lady.
It was also creepy, but sadly realistic, how Maxim married his second wife because he wanted an innocent, child-like wife, who had been sheltered from worldly matters. The way he treated her when she broke the cupid was cruel and not at all justified by his trauma over his bad marriage to and eventual murder of Rebecca. I actually found this part of the novel more stressful and horrific than the second half!
The second half was a bit melodramatic for real life (though stranger things have happened). I also couldn't believe that Mrs. d.W. didn't tell anyone about Mrs. Danver's attempt to get her to jump out the window and that she and Maxim just let her continue working at Manderley, even after Maxim was accused of murdering Rebecca! She was great at the practical side of the job, but it seemed extremely unrealistic that they trusted her in the role after all that. I wonder if she lit the fire or if it was Rebecca from beyond the grave? Or organised by cousin Jack? At least Mrs. d.W. took a more adult, equal role in the marriage afterwards and it seemed Maxim treated her as such in the future.
I have been to the part of Cornwall where the book is set, and even stayed in Penquite House, near Fowey, which was a YHA hostel at the time. I slept in the old servants' quarters. The area is certainly not quite as Gothic in reality, even on rainy, stormy days. I walked the coastline near Menabilly, on which Manderley is based, on a lovely sunny day. I also visited the Lost Gardens of Heligan, which is probably the closest I got to Manderley's gardens. I do remember that I knew Daphne De Maurier had set some of her books there and had lived in the region. However I went there because I have Cornish ancestry and vaguely knew some of my ancestors were from St Austell (since then I have traced that branch of the family tree). It sounded like a more scenic area than Sithney, where my other Cornish ancestors came from and not having a car I had to choose one locality. Definitely one of my favourite holidays.
What would you say are some of the key themes of the book?
Some key themes were inter-class and age-gap marriage, class code switching, gas-lighting, infidelity, the role of women and morality, Gothic mystery, narcissism and obsession.
Did you see what I did there?
I picked up on this too. Rebecca being akin to Bertha Rochester, but set in a more recent time where Maxim didn't lock his inconvenient wife in the attic and Rebecca was able to live her life as she liked. Although Rebecca was able to hide her immorality and stayed beautiful, charming and loved by many until the end of her life. Both Jane and Mrs. de Winter refused to stay childlike and innocent and had their own agency, despite marrying older men. In fact Rochester's temporary blindness and Maxim's emotional struggles and his wife knowing he murdered Rebecca gave their wives more power in relation to their husbands than when they began their relationships. And of course both ancient manor houses burnt to the ground.
Other thoughts and topics for discussion?
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I assume everybody escaped from Menabilly during the fire. Even though only minor characters were there at the time it would be nice to know they were safe.
I also would have liked to know what happened to Frank Crawley and Mrs. Danvers afterwards. Did Frank continue managing the estate even though the main house was gone? Did he move on and make a life elsewhere? Did Mrs. Danvers ever get over Rebecca's death and where did she end up?
A reread. I've loved this book and reread it regularly since I first encountered it as a teenager.
Did you enjoy the book? Any particularly striking passages?
Yes, as always I enjoyed it. I found all the descriptions striking: particularly, this time, the way Manderley is so central and so beloved by the characters - including the second Mrs de Winter - and yet it is sinister and foreboding as well.
Did you find it convincing, both in terms of the story and the depictions of the characters?
Yes; the book carries me along and while I'm reading it I usually find it convincing. For the first time this time I got frustrated with the narrator - why didn't she tell Maxim how she was feeling and how Mrs Danvers was behaving towards her? And why hadn't Maxim divorced Rebecca? I'd skated over it before but I did find myself wondering what was behind his statement that "She was not even normal" and that she'd told him things about herself that were so awful he'd never reveal them to a living soul. I also, for the first time, had very mixed feelings about a murderer who got away with it, while at the same time being pleased that he did and he and the second Mrs de Winter were free. Well - sort of free. They sound happy at the beginning of the book ("I... would willingly give my five senses if they could ensure our present peace and security") but they didn't have a home and I wonder if they ever did have the children that were mentioned more than once.
I very much liked some of the more minor characters who clearly knew - or suspected - more than they let on: Frank, Beatrice, Giles, Ben.
What would you say are some of the key themes of the book?
I'd say jealousy is one: Mrs Danvers is jealous of the new Mrs de Winter and she is jealous of Rebecca. I'd also say identity. Rebecca is dead but she dominates the book; the narrator is unnamed apart from occasionally being Mrs de Winter, although Maxim comments that she has a beautiful and unusual name which he manages to spell correctly (clearly not many other people do). Also, home. Manderley means so much to Maxim and after its loss it comes into his thoughts and memories and the second Mrs de Winter's dreams.
Did you see what I did there?
I think it's an interesting parallel. Jane was pretty feisty for her time, in a way that Rebecca's narrator doesn't seem to be. Although I did want to cheer at the end when she finally came into her own a bit: "I'm afraid it does not concern me very much what Mrs de Winter used to do... I am Mrs de Winter now, you know."
We have friends in Cornwall and I want to go to Menabilly, and the Jamaica Inn museum.
I found myself pretty irritated with Maxim at times, particularly the way he treated his new wife like a child - virtually patting her on the head and sending her out to play; as for his proposal - "No, I'm asking you to marry me, you little fool" - I'd tell him where to shove it. Except that I say that as a mature *cough cough* woman of my time... maybe as a desperately in love 21 year old of her time I would have reacted as she did.
-First Reading
Did you enjoy the book? Any particularly striking passages?
I enjoyed the book although it took awhile for me to get some traction in reading it. Ms. C. is reading it at the moment at a quicker pace. I found the scenes with Danny striking, the scene where the second Mrs. de Winter descends the stairs, the recounting of the murder and the inquest to all be striking. It is clear how this could be turned into a movie only two years after being published. In some ways, I think it would work better as a movie than as a book.
Did you find it convincing, both in terms of the story and the depictions of the characters?
The plot was convincing. Some of the characters were more convincing than others although most were drawn vividly. Danny was drawn as your typical ill, Hitchcockean villain.
What would you say are some of the key themes of the book?
-love, obsession, class
Did you see what I did there? Parallels have been drawn between this book and Jane Eyre which we discussed last year. Is it an interesting or useful parallel?
I have never read Jane Eyre.
Other thoughts and topics for discussion?
-Not at this time.
First reading, but it was a bit coloured by my memory of Hitchcock’s 1940 film version, even though it’s several years (though not decades!) since I saw that so I’ve forgotten much of the detail.
Did you enjoy the book? Any particularly striking passages?
Yes, though the first third or so dragged a bit for me . That may not have been helped by my being busy with w—k when I was attempting to read it, albeit in short bursts ( only a chapter or sometimes two at a time). After about halfway (after the ball and its aftermath) the pace really hots up and pulled me in much more. Before that, it read like the reflections of a silly young girl, and I only persisted because I knew (from the film) that the action hotted up after that. (Perhaps that’s a masculine view!?)
The scene that had really stuck in my memory from the film was when the narrator explores the bedroom that had been Rebecca’s and is found there by Mrs Danvers, played chillingly and memorably in the 1940 film by Judith Anderson. That’s also the scene when the book started to bite on me, as it was also chilling in du Maurier’s prose.
Particularly in the second half of the book, it struck me how the ending of each chapter read like the ending of an episode of a serial, as some big turn in the plot started to appear. I half-expected such chapters to end with the classic teaser of a serialised tale “read on in the next exciting episode”.
Did you find it convincing, both in terms of the story and the depictions of the characters?’
For me, the least convincing aspect of the story was why would the obviously worldly and well-heeled Mr de Winter want to marry such a naïve unworldly and otherwise not particularly attractive young girl. Sure, it emerges that she is different in all those aspects from his recently deceased wife (Rebecca), but I would have thought that the experience of being married to Rebecca would have put him off marriage to anyone for at least a year or two more.
Of the minor characters, Frank the kindly estate manager struck me as a type I know, while the more bumbling Beatrice also seemed convincing in her way. The chilling Mrs Danvers was convincingly portrayed in the book, though perhaps even more so by Judith Anderson in the film. The rich fusspot Mrs Van Hopper was also an interesting character in her own way – though atype which is fortunately rare these days.
The unfolding in the second half of the book of the character and death of Rebecca was well told and convincing in its way.
What would you say are some of the key themes of the book?
Be careful of rushed marriages; people are not always what they seem to be like on first acquaintance.
Parallels have been drawn between this book and Jane Eyre which we discussed last year. Is it an interesting or useful parallel?
Although I led last year’s study on Jane Eyre, no parallel occurred to me while I was reading Rebecca. But, as several have pointed out upthread there are some, including the first marriage hidden from sight, the naïve young girl (more so in Rebecca), and the burning down of the mansion.
Other thoughts and topics for discussion?
The device of never naming the narrator is striking. I’m not sure that it helps the plot along, though it does add a bit of mystery early on. What do other readers think? It reminds me of a sporting club that I once belonged to ; when I returned after a few years absence, they were running a new custom that everyone had to be given a club nickname and be referred to only by that name. So I was given the nickname “No Name”!
What do shipmates think of the very abrupt ending to the book? It almost seemed to me that, having reached the number of pages she’d contracted to write, the author stopped dead. However a comment above reminds me that the story actually continues in chapter 1 , after which it’s in flashback. But my reading the book intermittently meant that by the time I got to the end I had forgotten that the events afterward (i.e. the world-wandering couple) are described early on in the book.
Like Mili, I am a bit concerned that despite the body turning up, de Winter has got away with murder. I have read that such an ending would have been too much for the film censors in the 1940s, which is why the 1940 film makes Rebecca’s death a ‘fortunate’ accident. But the murder did not stop the book being a best-seller at the time. I would be interested to discuss how does the death of Rebecca unravel in other film/ TV versions.
I too find it interesting that the second Mrs de Winter is never named - the names she does have belong to someone else: to Rebecca or, briefly, to Caroline de Winter at the fancy dress ball. Is it to emphasise her lack of lustre next to other female characters in the book? Although, having said that, her voice in the narrative is strong. I was continually struck by her descriptions and her vivid imaginations, such as her unborn children cluttering up the house and her telling them to move their things to another room, and Maxim and Rebecca unpacking the cupid ornament as a wedding present: she sees these things so clearly and enables us to do so as well. And they never actually happened.
I read somewhere (probably on the internet) that the reason the heroine doesn't have a name is because Daphne du Maurier couldn't think of a suitable one; which is quite likely, if a bit banal!
It had not struck me that the ending of the book is abrupt. It moves very fast at the end, and the journey back to Manderley is described in some detail, and then we're left with the questions. Who started the fire? Did Mrs Danvers (I believe one of the films portrays it that way, but the book isn't clear) and if so did she die with the house? Why are Maxim and his new wife in hotel accommodation and not in their own home?
I'm interested in why, towards the end when everything seems to be falling apart, Maxim calls on Colonel Julyan - knowing that could potentially mean trouble for him. I really appreciate the tension those scenes (I still feel tense and nervous reading them, even though I know the outcome) and am glad Maxim called Favell's bluff and wrong-footed him, but it could have ended badly much earlier. Was Maxim at that stage sensing that he was a doomed man and wanting to deal with it with as much dignity and control of the situation as possible?
I read Mrs de Winter years ago and was appalled by it and how it ruined my mental pictures of Rebecca and what came after. I tried very hard to forget it and seem to have succeeded.
Actually... that was me...
My apologies! You are right. Although I did read the book and remember an extensive discussion, my own contribution to that discussion was small.
Did you enjoy the book? Any particularly striking passages?
I tried reading it a couple of years ago, and couldn't get into it. When I read it last summer I enjoyed it, maybe because I'd just watched the most recent film.
Did you find it convincing, both in terms of the story and the depictions of the characters?
I was carried along by the story, and thought the characters were well drawn, and it all made sense at the time. On closer analysis it is all slightly fairytale like, but the writing helped me suspend believe.
What would you say are some of the key themes of the book?
I thought there was quite a lot about people not being what they seem. Rebecca seemed like the perfect wife, but wasn't. The second Mrs de Winter seemed to be shy and retiring, but had a core of steel in the end.
Other thoughts and topics for discussion?
Was the relationship between Mrs Danvers and Rebecca sexual, at least on Danny's part, or just a lot of hero worshipping.
I'm still not sure Maxim should have got away with murder.
My version of the book has an introduction by Sally Beauman in which she says that Daphne du Maurier is wrestling with her own demons here: that to her both her lesbianism and her art were a form of aberrance and that she gave aspects of herself to both women: her shyness and social awkwardness to Mrs de Winter and "her independence, her love of the sea, her expertise as a sailor, her sexual fearlessness, and even her bisexuality (strongly hinted at in the novel, if not spelled out) to Rebecca."
I am more uncomfortable than I have been hitherto about Maxim getting away with murder; even more so when considering that when he killed Rebecca he believed she was pregnant so he was also killing her unborn child.
I do think it is unfair that we don't get Rebecca's side of the story from du Maurier, just what Maxim thought of her.
Is this your first reading or a reread? The first time, though I’m not sure how I missed it earlier. I remember reading Jamaica Inn as a teenager
Did you enjoy the book? Any particularly striking passages? I enjoyed it very much. The descriptions, both of Monte Carlo and Manderley are lush, the narrative style is compelling – it's one of those books you stay up late to finish!
Did you find it convincing, both in terms of the story and the depictions of the characters? It draws you in. Looked at dispassionately, some elements may be a bit implausible – the rush of the proposal and the narrator’s marriage, what Maxim sees in such an innocent (though this becomes clearer as the story progresses) - but the narrative strength is such that this doesn’t much matter. I found most of the characters convincing, especially the minor ones; Mrs Van Hooper, Frank, Beatrice. I found it harder to get a handle on Rebecca herself – some like Frank and Beatrice seem to have realised all was not as it seemed with her gracious façade, but most were fooled. As Sarasa says, it’s perhaps unfair that we only get Maxim’s version of her (and Beatrice’s a bit) And was rampant infidelity her main flaw? – there seem to be hints other things might have been involved.
What would you say are some of the key themes of the book? The unreliability of appearances. As well as an examination of gender and age disparities, the nature of obsession, class – and the awkward matter of guilt and responsibility. Maxim has committed murder, but the reader is deliberately caught up in the attempt to avoid responsibility. In retrospect several of us are concerned about the issue, but while reading it I know I was backing Maxim and the narrator. This moral ambiguity is rather unusual in a novel of that era – and I think it adds much to the novel. While the 1940 film may have avoided it (because of censorship, I assume) the text doesn’t, and that doesn’t seem to have done any damage to its popularity (amongst us, too!).
Parallels have been drawn between this book and Jane Eyre which we discussed last year. Is it an interesting or useful parallel? There are obvious parallels, but I think the similarities lie more in a matter of tone and suspense.
Other thoughts and topics for discussion? The unnamed narrator is unusual, and I’m not sure why Du Maurier did this. It does make the book a bit difficult to discuss, though Du Maurier can’t be expected to have consideration for book clubs 80 yrs later!
I've read Jamaica Inn as well - another book I reread from time to time - and, a long time ago, My Cousin Rachel. This last I don't recall revisiting in the same way as the others, though I am not sure why as I know I was very struck by it at the time. I've also quite recently read Frenchman's Creek which is a nice read with, as usual, beautiful descriptive and evocative passages; as @Sarasa and I agreed, though, it's a tad silly in places.
Is this your first reading or a reread?
This was my first reading.
Did you enjoy the book? Any particularly striking passages?
Our unnamed child bride irritated the snot out of me for the first part of the book. All the horriblizing she did constantly was wearing on my nerves. Maybe that's because I can be guilty of that too, if I'm tired or grouchy! When Maxim finally tells her about his real relationship with Rebecca, that seems to stop those thoughts that was a constant part of her information to us readers.
It was so well written, though, that I kept reading the book!
Did you find it convincing, both in terms of the story and the depictions of the characters?
The descriptions were very convincing. A man asking a girl half his age to marry him without giving her any options to think about it really didn't seem very realistic.
What would you say are some of the key themes of the book?
In some cases, crime does pay? Wealthy people will get the benefit of the doubt? I'm trying not to let my cynical side take over here, but am having a hard time with that!
Other thoughts and topics for discussion?
The thing that keeps crossing my mind is how our child bride suddenly seemed to grow up when she found out her husband killed her 'rival'.
I read it and found the first bits incredibly uncomfortable because I can identify with those feelings from my own young adulthood too well. Ugh. I liked the description of Manderley the best, and really wouldn't mind more landscape porn like that. Key themes--well, there's appearances vs. reality, and probably some stuff about identity going on, with all the play on who exactly is "Mrs. de Winter" and not knowing the narrator's name. I'm not super happy with the ending which makes him a murderer, even though this was really something like "suicide by wronged husband." Still, not good.
I sort of wonder whether we'd have had more balance if Rebecca hadn't turned out to be Teh Evilz of All Evilz, if you know what I mean. Give her some excuse for her behavior, or some explanation for it at least--not just that she's some sort of bad seed from the beginning. Similarly, I'd like to see Mrs. Danvers a bit better motivated besides "she worships the ground R walked on, and always did." Maybe make her the woman's unacknowledged mother or something?
Don't get me wrong, I think the novel was excellent--but I think it could have been more. And I'd like to see some sort of redemption for Max etc. rather than just having them rattle around Europe in hotels for the rest of eternity. Make him a bit more complicated, too.
By the sound of it Rebecca's Tale reframes Rebecca's character so that she isn't evil personified; having not read it I don't know for sure. I did see a copy of it in one of our local charity shops and a brief leaf-through convinced me that I don't want to read it.
It seemed to me that the narrator was deeply in love with Maxim de Winter; I'm sure she could have refused his offer had she been so minded but she wasn't. It also gave her an escape route from her life with the unspeakable Mrs Van Hopper.
The introduction to my copy suggests that the story actually resurrects Rebecca and makes her unforgettable whereas the "pale, ghostly and timid narrator, fades from our view; it is she who is the dying woman in this novel." I can see how the case can be made for this, but I don't agree. I think the narrator is portrayed as someone gifted with words, deep-thinking and vividly imaginative. I love the way she's empowered once she discovers the truth about Max and Rebecca's relationship.