What was the sermon about today?

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  • Ours was based on the story of Jonah and the repentance of Nineveh... which highlighted a few interesting themes; God's concern for those outside 'His chosen people', the notion of God 'changing His mind', but centrally our attitudes to God's call to do uncomfortable things which don't always fit our theology, character or preferences.
  • NenyaNenya All Saints Host, Ecclesiantics & MW Host
    Prayer. God's nature never changes but we can influence what God does by praying.
  • BoogieBoogie Heaven Host
    Following Jesus. Very good it was too. Reminded me of the way WW used to pray - ‘the living, loving light’.
  • Matthew 6:14-15

    The Lord's prayer is an invitation to pray for forgiveness.
    We need to be forgiving others, and God will empower us to do this
    We need to forgive ourselves as well.
  • DardaDarda Shipmate


    Our rector used Ephesians 5: 1-7 as the hook on which to hang his talk about Prayers of Love & Faith (C of E speak for same sex blessings). As expected, he took a "conservative" approach and stated that Our Place would not be offering same sex blessings. He used the Bible's "clobber verses" to justify his view and also the hate the sin, love the sinner line.
    Not sure how this is going to affect the life of our church going forward.
  • DardaDarda Shipmate
    Our reading (Ephesians 5: 8-20) was about “living in the light”. This is not just about being illuminated, but actually being “the light” so that the fruit of that light can shine out to others.
  • Paul's teaching about food offered to idols. Not to allow our 'superior' theology or church practice to be a stumbling block to those who come to Christ without our grounding in historical church tradition. To be open to new ways and insights, and able to discern what is really important in our faith, and what is just 'how we've always done it' - but not essential to other people from other backgrounds, or to the future of the church. This was linked to Jesus' words about allowing the little children to come to Him (enthusiastic, naive and without preconceptions) and the judgement on those who would prevent them or do them harm - damaging their fledgling faith by religious prejudice, rules, regulations and human requirements.
  • NenyaNenya All Saints Host, Ecclesiantics & MW Host
    Psalm 145 . What is prayer? It can be a task; a shopping list; but is also about nearness to God and about getting God's perspective on things.
  • Matthew 6 16-18

    Fasting is a spiritual discipline that releases God's power. We ought to be doing more of it! But only if our motives are right.
  • Alan29Alan29 Shipmate
    No idea. We had another visiting Indian priest with an impenetrable accent.
    I wish the diocese would provide classes for these clergy to iron out the worst of their pronunciation.
  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    Alan29 wrote: »
    No idea. We had another visiting Indian priest with an impenetrable accent.
    I wish the diocese would provide classes for these clergy to iron out the worst of their pronunciation.

    But that would require thought and effort, much like giving thought to why they have such a dearth of vocations in their own diocese that they need to poach clergy from half a world away.
  • Alan29Alan29 Shipmate
    Quite.
  • DoublethinkDoublethink Admin, 8th Day Host
    edited January 2024
    Alan29 wrote: »
    No idea. We had another visiting Indian priest with an impenetrable accent.
    I wish the diocese would provide classes for these clergy to iron out the worst of their pronunciation.

    Have you considered watching some Bollywood films in Indian English with subtitles ? It would help you get your ear in so you can benefit from the preaching, and it would help you in making your visiting priests feel welcome and appreciated if you could converse with them effectively.
  • Alan29Alan29 Shipmate
    Alan29 wrote: »
    No idea. We had another visiting Indian priest with an impenetrable accent.
    I wish the diocese would provide classes for these clergy to iron out the worst of their pronunciation.

    Have you considered watching some Bollywood films in Indian English with subtitles ? It would help you get your ear in so you can benefit from the preaching, and it would help you in making your visiting priests feel welcome and appreciated if you could converse with them effectively.

    The thing is one-to-one there is no problem. But at the microphone this one gabbles and puts the stresses on the wrong parts of the sentence so the meaning gets lost. One of the others just shouts down the mike despite being asked (very nicely) several times to lower his voice. They really do need some training. Its unrealistic to expect an entire congregation to watch Bollywood movies.
  • DoublethinkDoublethink Admin, 8th Day Host
    Is it more unrealistic than expecting someone to be able to modify their accent, or whoever does the sound for you folks to adjust the mike to take account of the speaker’s volume ?

    It does also read as if you are lumping these folk together and not really thinking about them as individuals - I presume that is not your intention ?
  • The intonation of Indian English is not intelligible to most British English speakers. Priests, who are there to serve the congregations, can reasonably be expected to be able to communicate effectively. As a verbal medium, Indian English is not of itself sufficient preparation for this task.
  • DoublethinkDoublethink Admin, 8th Day Host
    I think that is not true. I say this on the basis of working with two Indian born and one Pakistani born doctor on a daily basis.

    Not do I accept that the Indian English intonations is somehow uniquely difficult to get your ear into - over, say, a strong Glaswegian, Tyneside or Cockney accent.
  • What I do to deal with the wrong-stressed-syllable problem is take the manuscript and mark it up for the preacher. Each stressed syllable gets an accent mark (or underline, or what you please) so they can see where to put the emphasis. We print it in double or triple space 12 point type, so there's room to see the handwritten marks. Sometimes I put parentheses around the phrases so the preacher knows to take his breaths between the phrases and not in the middle of one.

    It comes out looking rather like this:

    (Grace to you) (and PEACE) (from GOD our FAther) (and from the LORD JEsus CHRIST.)

    It makes a huge difference in people's ability to understand the preacher, we've had many comments afterward on how clear it was.
  • DoublethinkDoublethink Admin, 8th Day Host
    That seems like a really practical approach @Lamb Chopped
  • We keep a wedding service in a binder that's marked up this way specially! Just swap out the names...
  • DoublethinkDoublethink Admin, 8th Day Host
    Neat !
  • I think that is not true. I say this on the basis of working with two Indian born and one Pakistani born doctor on a daily basis.

    Not do I accept that the Indian English intonations is somehow uniquely difficult to get your ear into - over, say, a strong Glaswegian, Tyneside or Cockney accent.

    Indian intonation is typically far faster than either, from my observations. In any case, the onus should always be on the priest, and indeed ultimately on the church, not on the congregation. It is the priest who has the resources of the institution behind him, and both sides - priest and congregation - can reasonably expect the institution to prepare him to serve the congregation.
  • DoublethinkDoublethink Admin, 8th Day Host
    edited January 2024
    I disagree - it’s meant to be a community.
  • GwaiGwai Epiphanies Host
    When we say the organization and institution should support the priest, the church itself is part of that. We don't get improved priests by telling seminaries to make better ones. We get improved priests by helping the ones we have.
  • Alan29Alan29 Shipmate
    Were the situation reversed and I found myself public speaking in a foreign language I would feel duty bound to make sure I was intelligible. At least I would ask the organisation that sent me there for professional help.
  • Alan29Alan29 Shipmate
    Gwai wrote: »
    When we say the organization and institution should support the priest, the church itself is part of that. We don't get improved priests by telling seminaries to make better ones. We get improved priests by helping the ones we have.

    It isn't either/or.
  • DoublethinkDoublethink Admin, 8th Day Host
    edited January 2024
    A variant of English is not really a foreign language though, is it - it is not as if the sermon was given in Hindi or Urdu*

    I think what @Lamb Chopped outlined above would be a good work around.

    (*Of course they could do that then the church fund a translator - but bear in mind the translator will probably have an accent.)
  • That seems like a really practical approach @Lamb Chopped

    IME, the liturgy is easy enough to follow, even with a priest with a difficult accent, because I know what he's supposed to be saying. Sermons are more of a challenge.
  • The thing about professional help is ... well, there often isn't any. Have you ever looked into the cost of accent reduction, for instance? Not to mention the difficulty of finding someone qualified to work with you on it in your area, if you're not in a major metro area. We did look into it for Mr Lamb, and had a single session (all we could afford) but at least we got the book, so we could try to move forward. And I can't imagine your Indian priests are paid scads of money.
  • SpikeSpike Ecclesiantics & MW Host, Admin Emeritus
    Hostly cotta on

    OK this is straying way off the subject. If you want to discuss the intelligibility (or otherwise) of the person leading worship, please start a new thread.

    Spike
    Ecclesiantics host
  • Thank you Spike - I was starting to get hot under the collar reading thro!
  • We had a family service today, for Candlemas/Snowdrop Sunday, led by some of the children and their parents. The talk - from one of the dads - was on Snowdrops - small signs of purity, light and hope in a time of darkness.
  • NenyaNenya All Saints Host, Ecclesiantics & MW Host
    Baptisms at our place today so a fairly standard (for us) talk on who's justified before God and who isn't, though also made clear it's not for us to judge.
  • Matthew 6 19-34

    Don't worry about your need for food and clothes.
    Don't love money.
    Do keep your eyes fixed on Jesus
  • Visiting speaker from Serbia, a much loved friend of our church. He spoke on Luke 17 with an emphasis on culture, forgiveness and faith.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    edited February 2024
    Mark 6: 1-31

    A riff on "Prepare Ye the Way of the Lord" in Godspell. Really was pretty good.

  • MaryLouiseMaryLouise Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    Mark 1:29-39, Fifth Sunday in Ordinary Time, guest preacher. How Jesus healed the mother-in-law of Simon so she could return to her calling as home manager and host.
  • We had a family service today, for Candlemas/Snowdrop Sunday, led by some of the children and their parents. The talk - from one of the dads - was on Snowdrops - small signs of purity, light and hope in a time of darkness.
    What, please, is Snowdrop Sunday?


    MaryLouise wrote: »
    Mark 1:29-39, Fifth Sunday in Ordinary Time, guest preacher. How Jesus healed the mother-in-law of Simon so she could return to her calling as home manager and host.
    Our sermon also dealt at some length with Simon’s mother-in-law getting up and serving, but as a different kind of calling. It was noted that forms of the Greek word used— διηκόνει/diēkonei, which is, of course, the root of our word deacon—is used only two other times in Mark: when the angels minister to/serve Jesus after his time in the wilderness and when Jesus says he came not to be served but to serve. So, it’s used by Mark to refer to the ministrations of angels, the service of Jesus and the service of Simon’s mother-in-law.

    Coupled with what comes next—bringing many sick people to the house for healing—we were invited to see Simon’s mother-in-law’s service less in household, women’s roles terms, and more in terms of an outward-focused response to grace. She responded to Jesus’s healing by ministering to others.

  • Alan Cresswell Alan Cresswell Admin, 8th Day Host
    I had the privilege of a Shipmate preaching. So, probably better not to show how little of the sermon I recall!
  • Baptist TrainfanBaptist Trainfan Shipmate
    edited February 2024
    [Wipes brow] Well, it wasn't me - I was many leagues further south!
  • Visiting priest preached about prayer.
  • MaryLouiseMaryLouise Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    edited February 2024
    Nick Tamen wrote: »
    MaryLouise wrote: »
    Mark 1:29-39, Fifth Sunday in Ordinary Time, guest preacher. How Jesus healed the mother-in-law of Simon so she could return to her calling as home manager and host.
    Our sermon also dealt at some length with Simon’s mother-in-law getting up and serving, but as a different kind of calling. It was noted that forms of the Greek word used— διηκόνει/diēkonei, which is, of course, the root of our word deacon—is used only two other times in Mark: when the angels minister to/serve Jesus after his time in the wilderness and when Jesus says he came not to be served but to serve. So, it’s used by Mark to refer to the ministrations of angels, the service of Jesus and the service of Simon’s mother-in-law.

    Coupled with what comes next—bringing many sick people to the house for healing—we were invited to see Simon’s mother-in-law’s service less in household, women’s roles terms, and more in terms of an outward-focused response to grace. She responded to Jesus’s healing by ministering to others.

    @Nick Tamen that sermon would have been much more appropriate and I like that particular reading of a calling to service. This, though, is the same preacher who once referred to Martha as the Ultimate Home Executive. Without irony.
  • Nick Tamen wrote: »
    We had a family service today, for Candlemas/Snowdrop Sunday, led by some of the children and their parents. The talk - from one of the dads - was on Snowdrops - small signs of purity, light and hope in a time of darkness.
    What, please, is Snowdrop Sunday?

    A new one on me too!

  • Today's readings were about Elijah and the fiery chariot, and the Transfiguration of Jesus.
    The sermon was centred on the latter and talked about moments of divine illumination in our lives, and the dilemmas of making sense and living out the implications of unexpected revelations.
  • Why Jesus ordered the Transfiguration disciples to say nothing (the "Messianic Secret") ... and his post-Resurrection command to tell the world!
  • NenyaNenya All Saints Host, Ecclesiantics & MW Host
    Wrestling in prayer. For how long do we wrestle? Until an answer is reached, until God says stop, or until our desires are changed.
  • Guest speaker, come to speak about church planting. We had Acts 11 on unity and reaching out to diverse people.
  • Matthew 7: 1-6
    Don't judge.
    Jesus shows us how to remove our own planks.
    We still have the right to discern.
  • MaryLouiseMaryLouise Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    Mark 1:40-45 on Jesus healing the leper. A lay Franciscan on sabbatical from Zimbabwe and I spoke about the leper colony at Mtemwa and the ministry of John Bradburne during the war years. I met John as a child and it still amazes me he is now up to be canonised as a saint. I suspect he would have hated it.
  • The best saints always do
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