Water from different springs: How other faiths nourish yours
Cameron
Shipmate
in Epiphanies
If you have a faith, do you sometimes find that something(s) from other faiths or different traditions within your faith prove meaningful, or moving, for you?
Examples for me (in relation to my ‘home’ liberal Christian faith tradition) include:
The water from such wells seems to help keep my faith green. Are there general or particular sources that you have discovered, and perhaps been surprised by?
[I have posted this in epiphanies to keep this in the spirit of an appreciative inquiry - how we have felt helped or nourished - rather than to start debate on whether any faith or tradition is “better” than another].
Examples for me (in relation to my ‘home’ liberal Christian faith tradition) include:
- Writings of the Sufi mystics - especially poetry - which provide such rich imagery in relation to the mystery of God, and loving God in that mystery.
- The late Jonathan Sacks’ writing, especially ‘Not in God’s Name’ which opened up perspectives on peace between different traditions that can be found in Judaism.
- Buddhist approaches to mindfulness and meditation.
- Charismatic evangelical worship, now and again, for the sense of joy.
The water from such wells seems to help keep my faith green. Are there general or particular sources that you have discovered, and perhaps been surprised by?
[I have posted this in epiphanies to keep this in the spirit of an appreciative inquiry - how we have felt helped or nourished - rather than to start debate on whether any faith or tradition is “better” than another].
Comments
Though I think I use the physical gestures of Buddhism sometimes in Christian practice, especially kneeling or putting my hands into a meditative posture (palms up, left hand fingers flat over right, thumbs touching.) At this point it's all integrated so smoothly that I don't really know exactly where the joints are, but I generally consider myself a Christian who picked up some "East Asian" spiritual teachings.
I've also learned to dig through Paul and sometimes pick up the philosophical schools he's playing with in his own writings, especially stoicism, which meshes nicely with Zen Buddhist notions of self denial.
I have ended as a Reform Rabbi, grateful to Christianity for so many good things.
From outside Christianity, a rabbi describing what happens at a Friday evening Seder, and how he understood it. It completely change my understanding of Holy Communion. It both simplified so much and enabled me to get away from a whole lot of wrong perceptions I'd somehow imagined by osmosis growing up within my own CofE background.
From other Christian traditions, the two main things have to be Orthodoxy for how it has spoken to a less proddy version of myself, and, in contrast, the Brethren and the Moravians for a sense of what community and fellowship could be about.
The next day I bumped into first a Jewish fella and later a Muslim one who'd been at the event.
I asked them what they made of it.
'Interesting,' said the Jewish fella. 'But from a Jewish perspective, God is always personal.'
I asked the Muslim the same thing.
'Interesting,' he said. 'But from a Muslim perspective, God is always personal.'
No disrespect to Buddhism or Buddhists and fairly obvious remarks when you think about it. But it struck me at the time how all the Abrahamic faiths share that aspect in common.
Truth be told, I've never really drawn on the insights of other faiths that much. Within the Christian spectrum though, I've gained a great deal from exposure to a wide range of traditions.
The therapist suggested we look together at the myth of Inanna's descent to the Underworld. I'd been dreaming about going down stairwells to an underground railway and being unable to get off the train I boarded, waiting for a sister who was never on time or who ignored conciliatory gestures. The myth of Inanna is one of the oldest goddess narratives and there are many versions of this myth, centred on the Sumerian sky goddess Inanna who becomes Ishtar in later incarnations. The historical context or cultural readings of the myth weren't the focus: I looked only at the archetypal or intuitive associations that came up for me in this grim retelling.
Inanna decides to explore the dark shadowy realm in which her estranged sister Erishkegal lives. She wants to encounter darkness and unknowability. She goes down to comfort her sister for the loss of Erishkegal's spouse and as she goes down through the gates into the underworld, she has to give up her crown, jewels, lapis lazuli rod, cloak and clothing, losing her identity step by step. She arrives naked and helpless in the chamber where Erishkegal rules over her shadows in the realm of death. Inanna, ignorant and optimistic, has miscalculated the situation: Erishkegal turns on her the stare of death and kills her, orders that Inanna's body be hung on a meat hook to rot. The hatred shown towards Inanna arises from Erishkegals' own raging, unappeased grief.
There are helpers, little creatures formed from the dirt under fingernails and they listen to the wailing and fury of Erishkegal with sympathy. Eventually Erishkegal sprinkles the fresh water of life on her sister's body and Inanna returns to life. She has encountered her sister's murderous rage and survived, they can now respect one another's realms and differences. But Inanna can only return to her world above, the sunlight and skies, if she sends down a substitute to take her place. There is always a price to be paid for self-knowledge and trespass, somebody else gets hurt.
This journey and focus was really helpful in ways I couldn't articulate or explain directly. As adults, sisters (like mothers and daughters) downplay differences and 'act like civil grown-ups' but often the old feelings of resentment and envy are still there lurking under the surface. Some ancient myths (Eurydice and Orpheus, Persephone and Ceres) are protean and never grow old.
I enthusiastically embrace truths I find in other streams:
“If the mind works on the mind - how can anything but confusion result?” It is a Zen saying, if memory serves and I have loved it for over half a century, and it still pops into to my mind when listening to strict materialists, and other strictly-rational believers.
“All generalizations are false, including this one”. I forget the source but I know it’s not scripture.
I admit to being stongly affected by “A Course in Miracles” back in my searching days. What comes to mind is “Perfect love drives out fear”. That has always proven to be true for me. This book was a major factor in my road to Christ.
I love Siddartha’s observation of life being like a river always changing yet always the same.
I know there are a few more and I’m enjoying the exercise of bringing them to mind.
I was thinking the other day about Bede Griffiths and Raimon Pannikar who drew on both Catholic and Hindu metaphors (from the Vedas and Upanishads).
Not a spiritual discipline but amazing food!
My son had three good friends - a Hindu, a Muslim and a Sikh. They all decided they’d become Hindus when they grew up as they had the best parties!
Is that because it's Super-Cataphatic-Praxis-Ignatian-Vedas-Hocus Pocus?
Or Super-Apophatic-Praxis-Upanishads-Kenosis?
I married a Christian Scientist. She helped me understand the feminine side of God.
While not Buddist, Karl Jung, borrowed a lot from Eastern religions in his brand of psychology.
I really appreciated Victor Frankl's Man's Search for Meaning
Thanks @MaryLouise
I find the ‘lights on’ / ‘lights off’ idea interesting. I also find the use of imagination in the Ignatian tradition appealing but mostly as a way of being self-reflexive - revealing where my own unconscious is going in prayer and reflection.
Yes, I was going on to say more about the different strands of apophatic/ kataphatic along with dualistic/non-dualistic in Hindu traditions but am slightly nervous GG might be tempted to turn the post into another random punny circus event. It's also worth noting that the Mahayana path in Buddhism has both traditions found in their teachings along with studies in paradox. My feeling is that any mystical approach will move towards apophatic or 'dark night of the soul' because so much happens outside language.
For instance, I hadn't noticed the pablito1954 quote that Cameron very helpfully shared from another thread but it took my breath aware.
It's magnificent.
Yes, I cannand do act daft at times but that doesn't mean I don't appreciate the insights of those who share on these boards.
Peace be to all.
Not from other faiths.
Certainly from other world views, lived experiences. Fiction, poetry and nonfiction, particularly from African-Americans has altered me significantly. Obviously my faith as well as my critical thinking skills have been affected by all this broad, casual interest in the liberal arts that stems from work in German language studies, multicultural lit classes, critical theory classes, art/lit history and interpretation, undergrad science and math, etc.
None of this adds up to a precise, formalized theory of anything, or robust theology, but (in)forms my thinking in broad ways. Jonathan Edwards to Sonya Sanchez to Mulk Raj Anand to e.e. cummings to Franz Marc to Charles Chestnut to Max von der Grün to Kierkegaard to prison newspapers that I work with to N.T. Wright to .... You get the idea.
I'm offering conversation not argument. Hence my comments in response to @Cameron's sharing of @pablito1954's very impressive post.
Peace be to all and forgive me if I cause offence.
I wasn't talking about you or @pablito1954, it was a more general comment about posting at the moment.
This for me too, notably the fiction and essays of Toni Morrison and Claudia Rankine.
Gwai,
Epiphanies Host
Could you say a little more about the “who am I?” quest? It sounds intriguing…
He called it self-enquiry, and it really leads to the abandonment of ego, or the separate self, and the realization of Self, which pervades everything. But something like this is found in different religions. There are Zen retreats where "who am I?" and "what am I?" are the main koans. Of course, the ego hangs on for grim death.
I was recently reading Jack Kornfield's book (he's Buddhist) "After The Ecstasy, The Laundry" at the bus Interchange while while waiting for a connecting bus and a woman passing by said it sounded like Brother Lawrence of the Resurrection, a Carmelite Lay brother who lived from 1614 - 1691 and wrote "The Practice of the Presence of God." Fortunately a friend had given me the book about 40 years ago, so I knew about the simplicity of his approach.
It was a strange conversation to have while waiting for a bus.
“…even though the sound of it is something quite atrocious…” 🎶
And now that song is in my head.
Um diddle iddle iddle um diddle i
Next, to explain what I specifically mean by “Anglo-Catholic”…
Yes, I’m weird
. . .
But then, you already knew that
My partner, QuakerCub on the Ship, loved Living Buddha, Living Christ by Thich Nhat Hanh.
While not a Quaker, I did like some Quaker stuff Cubby (QuakerCub) introduced me to. Can’t remember the author but it’s 3 am here.
Was it Sartre who said, "hell is other people"? He didn't add especially those who want to read the book you haven't finished.