At the same time, it did make me wonder why the writer derives no comfort from the thriving missionary churches in Africa once converted and then supported by Methodist congregations because that is the present reality
There's a tangential mention of missionary churches in the reference to Fiji, but otherwise I assume it's because he's mourning the loss of the community he knew.
@chrisstiles I was thinking of this reference in the link: 'I suppose these days they’d call the Boys’ Brigade “colonial”, but every week Captain Taylor led the singing of “We’re a mighty band of brothers, spreading out across the world”, and there were slides of smiling African boys to prove it.'
But yes, we must get into the habit of being less UK-centric.
Should that be so, shipmates might be interested in how a jurisdiction with a strong cultural agenda handles the issue of churches without resources-- to the tune of $34 million last year in grants: https://www.patrimoine-religieux.qc.ca/en . The section on prizes for conversion, upgrades etc might be of interest. English texts can be found, but might take some looking (as providing English-language material is not a local priority). In Canada there is no strict separation between church and state, so there is no constitutional barrier.
Bluntly, about 30 years ago the rocketing-downwards church attendance in Québec (from 70% of the population in the 1960s to about a tenth of that currently) coincided with growing costs of restoration and maintenance. The province was faced with a choice of seeing its architectural, community centre, and historical heritage closing down, or reaching into its pocket to pay for it. As the many pages of this thread point out, there are only a few other workable choices.
Historically, there is usually Anglican representation (currently two, including the Council's vice-president) on the Council, and Anglicans and Presbyterians have done well per capita on the grants. The curious-for-details crowd can see the 2022-2023 grants on pp 19-21 of the annual report. The majority are RC rural and small-town parishes but the Anglican cathedral in Montréal got $1,360,000 and a half-million to two other parishes (there was one evangelical recipient for $175k).
Some say that Québec is a special case-- yes, because they decided it was important for cultural policy reasons.
Was it any easier, politically, in Quebec because of the situation in France?
I do not think that there was any connexion. There are few links between Québec and France although in recent years some politicans are grasping at France's secularism policy as an anti-Muslim/anti-Semitic trope.
In 1906, France secularized the churches and then found that they had thousands of useless buildings on their hands. They were leased back to the RCC, and local government got the burden of maintaining them. Québec may have looked at that and shuddered, and preferred to leave the buildings with the churches and establishing a government-funded foundation to deal with the issue. Last fiscal they received $34million in provincial funds.
I thought the reference to 'smiling African boys' as a tangential reference to colonial mission in general. Having made the allusion I see no reason why the author would have felt the need to expand on that. Unless the purpose of the article were to contrast Methodist decline in the UK with continued growth elsewhere.
In a folk museum in Belgium I was struck by a snakes and ladders style board game with all sorts of barriers to overcome before the blond haired boy depicted in the narrative ended up as a priest with an entirely black congregation in the Belgian Congo.
We often forget how prevalent all that was. Heck, going back a wee bit further I was surprised to read about public subscriptions and collections in my native South Wales to fund Protestant mission in Portugal or to support former RC priests who'd converted to Anglicanism. It wasn't something tucked away in a corner known only to a handful of church-goers.
At the same time, it did make me wonder why the writer derives no comfort from the thriving missionary churches in Africa once converted and then supported by Methodist congregations because that is the present reality
There's a tangential mention of missionary churches in the reference to Fiji, but otherwise I assume it's because he's mourning the loss of the community he knew.
@chrisstiles I was thinking of this reference in the link: 'I suppose these days they’d call the Boys’ Brigade “colonial”, but every week Captain Taylor led the singing of “We’re a mighty band of brothers, spreading out across the world”, and there were slides of smiling African boys to prove it.'
Yes, I'm guessing his connection with Methodism was primarily mediated via his local church community - in common with a lot of us. Passing the torch is a kind of ambiguous phrase when it results in cessation on one side.
At our Easter Sunday service, the minister presented a long-service certificate to one of the Elders (starting his 41st year in the role!), and then went on to welcome 8 new members, including myself, who have just been added to the Roll. And half of those were under the age of 40... with young children! Perhaps there is life in the old Kirk yet!
At our Easter Sunday service, the minister presented a long-service certificate to one of the Elders (starting his 41st year in the role!), and then went on to welcome 8 new members, including myself, who have just been added to the Roll. And half of those were under the age of 40... with young children! Perhaps there is life in the old Kirk yet!
That's great! Thanks for sharing, it's encouraging.
We had 60-odd today - which, post covid, is a lot. And quite a few new-ish faces. But we are not at all rural, so I will shut up!
It touches on a number of threads brought up in this topic, among them the interwoven sociality supported by the church.
Now I have read the article - it's great, thanks so much for posting it. It very much echoes my own (20-years-later) experience. I count myself very lucky to have been of an age to catch it, here in the UK.
There were few of the regular congregation at parish communion this morning, ( probably away visiting families) but their absence was made up for by about 20- 30 people, including three families, whose faces were unfamiliar to me.
Comments
@chrisstiles I was thinking of this reference in the link: 'I suppose these days they’d call the Boys’ Brigade “colonial”, but every week Captain Taylor led the singing of “We’re a mighty band of brothers, spreading out across the world”, and there were slides of smiling African boys to prove it.'
Should that be so, shipmates might be interested in how a jurisdiction with a strong cultural agenda handles the issue of churches without resources-- to the tune of $34 million last year in grants: https://www.patrimoine-religieux.qc.ca/en . The section on prizes for conversion, upgrades etc might be of interest. English texts can be found, but might take some looking (as providing English-language material is not a local priority). In Canada there is no strict separation between church and state, so there is no constitutional barrier.
Bluntly, about 30 years ago the rocketing-downwards church attendance in Québec (from 70% of the population in the 1960s to about a tenth of that currently) coincided with growing costs of restoration and maintenance. The province was faced with a choice of seeing its architectural, community centre, and historical heritage closing down, or reaching into its pocket to pay for it. As the many pages of this thread point out, there are only a few other workable choices.
Historically, there is usually Anglican representation (currently two, including the Council's vice-president) on the Council, and Anglicans and Presbyterians have done well per capita on the grants. The curious-for-details crowd can see the 2022-2023 grants on pp 19-21 of the annual report. The majority are RC rural and small-town parishes but the Anglican cathedral in Montréal got $1,360,000 and a half-million to two other parishes (there was one evangelical recipient for $175k).
Some say that Québec is a special case-- yes, because they decided it was important for cultural policy reasons.
I do not think that there was any connexion. There are few links between Québec and France although in recent years some politicans are grasping at France's secularism policy as an anti-Muslim/anti-Semitic trope.
In 1906, France secularized the churches and then found that they had thousands of useless buildings on their hands. They were leased back to the RCC, and local government got the burden of maintaining them. Québec may have looked at that and shuddered, and preferred to leave the buildings with the churches and establishing a government-funded foundation to deal with the issue. Last fiscal they received $34million in provincial funds.
I thought the reference to 'smiling African boys' as a tangential reference to colonial mission in general. Having made the allusion I see no reason why the author would have felt the need to expand on that. Unless the purpose of the article were to contrast Methodist decline in the UK with continued growth elsewhere.
In a folk museum in Belgium I was struck by a snakes and ladders style board game with all sorts of barriers to overcome before the blond haired boy depicted in the narrative ended up as a priest with an entirely black congregation in the Belgian Congo.
We often forget how prevalent all that was. Heck, going back a wee bit further I was surprised to read about public subscriptions and collections in my native South Wales to fund Protestant mission in Portugal or to support former RC priests who'd converted to Anglicanism. It wasn't something tucked away in a corner known only to a handful of church-goers.
Yes, I'm guessing his connection with Methodism was primarily mediated via his local church community - in common with a lot of us. Passing the torch is a kind of ambiguous phrase when it results in cessation on one side.
That's great! Thanks for sharing, it's encouraging.
We had 60-odd today - which, post covid, is a lot. And quite a few new-ish faces. But we are not at all rural, so I will shut up!
Now I have read the article - it's great, thanks so much for posting it. It very much echoes my own (20-years-later) experience. I count myself very lucky to have been of an age to catch it, here in the UK.