Are Just Stop Oil being paid by the oil companies?

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Comments

  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    Point taken about the science.
  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    And yeah, if there's no damage to the stones or the life on them, I guess I don't have any real objection to the action, beyond the usual that I'd have to petty vandalism. Still kind of a goofy choice of target.
  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    All the discussion on this thread about the mathematics of what changes are and are not more environmental than what others simply demonstrates to me the validity of what I said earlier today about Just Stop Oil, simplistic solutions, gesture politics and their being the Reform Party of the environmental movement.

  • EirenistEirenist Shipmate
    But who is going to be converted to the Cause by this sort of action? I suspect these folk of seeking the glory of martyrdom.
  • Enoch wrote: »
    All the discussion on this thread about the mathematics of what changes are and are not more environmental than what others simply demonstrates to me the validity of what I said earlier today about Just Stop Oil, simplistic solutions, gesture politics and their being the Reform Party of the environmental movement.

    Reform - like UKIP before them - are quite successful at their goal (driving politics further to the right - with a lot of assistance from the media). So I'm not sure that comparison says what you want it to.

    Meanwhile what have the politics of moderation delivered? Half of all historical emissions have been created in the last 30 years. You could hardly get less effective.
  • There does seem to be an air of desperation about Just Stop Oil's activities. Maybe it is almost too late, after all, to do anything effective...
  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    Enoch wrote: »
    All the discussion on this thread about the mathematics of what changes are and are not more environmental than what others simply demonstrates to me the validity of what I said earlier today about Just Stop Oil, simplistic solutions, gesture politics and their being the Reform Party of the environmental movement.

    The interesting question is whether we would be talking about this if JSO hadn't acted? It seems to me that they're forcing the issue to the top of the agenda, and I'm not sure there is a more effective means of doing that.
  • TelfordTelford Shipmate
    Caissa wrote: »
    Those "who protest climate disaster" by defacing historical sites.

    The paint is water soluble. The Stonehenge account was tweeting furiously about damage to the lichen. I wonder what sort of damage a 2.5 degree rise in temperature will cause.
    I am gratified that these heros have prevented a 2.5 degree in temperature
  • chrisstileschrisstiles Hell Host
    edited June 2024
    Telford wrote: »
    Caissa wrote: »
    Those "who protest climate disaster" by defacing historical sites.

    The paint is water soluble. The Stonehenge account was tweeting furiously about damage to the lichen. I wonder what sort of damage a 2.5 degree rise in temperature will cause.
    I am gratified that these heros have prevented a 2.5 degree in temperature

    When climate emissions more than doubled during your lifetime what did you do to protest?
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited June 2024
    Good question.

    If we're honest, many of us (myself included) might answer *Not much* - but, with public awareness of the pending cataclysm now so much more prominent, we would do well to consider what more we could do, as individuals.

    @Telford's cynical and offensive remark does him no credit.
    :disappointed:
  • CaissaCaissa Shipmate
    We seem to be having a very unhelllike discussion in Hell. Telford's comments seem to be quite in keeping with the Hell venue.
  • Caissa wrote: »
    We seem to be having a very unhelllike discussion in Hell. Telford's comments seem to be quite in keeping with the Hell venue.

    Indeed, but they still do him no credit.
  • Good question.

    If we're honest, many of us (myself included) might answer *Not much* - but, with public awareness of the pending cataclysm now so much more prominent, we would do well to consider what more we could do, as individuals.

    @Telford's cynical and offensive remark does him no credit.
    :disappointed:

    Have to say I took the remark to be wit or irony.
  • So private jets are part of the *national infrastructure*?

    No, but airport buildings and runways are. Just like roads and motorways are part of the national infrastructure even though they are overwhelmingly used by private cars, buses, lorries, etc.
  • TelfordTelford Shipmate
    Telford wrote: »
    Caissa wrote: »
    Those "who protest climate disaster" by defacing historical sites.

    The paint is water soluble. The Stonehenge account was tweeting furiously about damage to the lichen. I wonder what sort of damage a 2.5 degree rise in temperature will cause.
    I am gratified that these heros have prevented a 2.5 degree in temperature

    When climate emissions more than doubled during your lifetime what did you do to protest?

    I considered writing to the leaders of the USA. India and China but I thought it would be a waste of time

  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited June 2024
    So private jets are part of the *national infrastructure*?

    No, but airport buildings and runways are. Just like roads and motorways are part of the national infrastructure even though they are overwhelmingly used by private cars, buses, lorries, etc.

    Yes, that is so, and the point has already been made.
  • Although they only cut a hole in a fence!
  • Telford wrote: »
    Telford wrote: »
    Caissa wrote: »
    Those "who protest climate disaster" by defacing historical sites.

    The paint is water soluble. The Stonehenge account was tweeting furiously about damage to the lichen. I wonder what sort of damage a 2.5 degree rise in temperature will cause.
    I am gratified that these heros have prevented a 2.5 degree in temperature

    When climate emissions more than doubled during your lifetime what did you do to protest?

    I considered writing to the leaders of the USA. India and China but I thought it would be a waste of time

    Presumably you've stopped buying anything from any and all companies that have moved their manufacturing to one of those countries and are dressed and fed entirely on local produce.
  • TelfordTelford Shipmate
    Telford wrote: »
    Telford wrote: »
    Caissa wrote: »
    Those "who protest climate disaster" by defacing historical sites.

    The paint is water soluble. The Stonehenge account was tweeting furiously about damage to the lichen. I wonder what sort of damage a 2.5 degree rise in temperature will cause.
    I am gratified that these heros have prevented a 2.5 degree in temperature

    When climate emissions more than doubled during your lifetime what did you do to protest?

    I considered writing to the leaders of the USA. India and China but I thought it would be a waste of time

    Presumably you've stopped buying anything from any and all companies that have moved their manufacturing to one of those countries and are dressed and fed entirely on local produce.
    We get all our shopping from Morrisons. They deliver once a week
  • Telford wrote: »
    Telford wrote: »
    Telford wrote: »
    Caissa wrote: »
    Those "who protest climate disaster" by defacing historical sites.

    The paint is water soluble. The Stonehenge account was tweeting furiously about damage to the lichen. I wonder what sort of damage a 2.5 degree rise in temperature will cause.
    I am gratified that these heros have prevented a 2.5 degree in temperature

    When climate emissions more than doubled during your lifetime what did you do to protest?

    I considered writing to the leaders of the USA. India and China but I thought it would be a waste of time

    Presumably you've stopped buying anything from any and all companies that have moved their manufacturing to one of those countries and are dressed and fed entirely on local produce.
    We get all our shopping from Morrisons. They deliver once a week

    So the answer is 'no' then.
  • TelfordTelford Shipmate
    Telford wrote: »
    Telford wrote: »
    Telford wrote: »
    Caissa wrote: »
    Those "who protest climate disaster" by defacing historical sites.

    The paint is water soluble. The Stonehenge account was tweeting furiously about damage to the lichen. I wonder what sort of damage a 2.5 degree rise in temperature will cause.
    I am gratified that these heros have prevented a 2.5 degree in temperature

    When climate emissions more than doubled during your lifetime what did you do to protest?

    I considered writing to the leaders of the USA. India and China but I thought it would be a waste of time

    Presumably you've stopped buying anything from any and all companies that have moved their manufacturing to one of those countries and are dressed and fed entirely on local produce.
    We get all our shopping from Morrisons. They deliver once a week

    So the answer is 'no' then.

    The answer is what you have just quoted.
  • Although they only cut a hole in a fence!

    Well, yes - but it was a GOVERNMENT fence!
    :scream:
  • No, it's owned by Manchester Airports Group.
  • :lol:

    Still, it's part of the *national infrastructure*, and damaging it, therefore, is not in accordance with True British Values™ - cutting a hole in it is surely heinous enough to warrant a jail sentence of at least 100 years.
    :wink:
  • EirenistEirenist Shipmate
    They have had their fun, and should be prepared to pay for it.
  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    edited June 2024
    :lol:

    Still, it's part of the *national infrastructure*, and damaging it, therefore, is not in accordance with True British Values™ - cutting a hole in it is surely heinous enough to warrant a jail sentence of at least 100 years.
    :wink:

    I know stopping the course of a plane can land you some relatively hefty penalties(google Nut Rage Incident), but I wonder what you get for just vandalizing planes that are being housed on government-affiliated property you illegally entered.
  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    edited June 2024
    No, it's owned by Manchester Airports Group.

    I assume, though, that the Manchester Airports Group is not a private sector operation in the same way that, for example, your local McDonalds is.
  • stetson wrote: »
    No, it's owned by Manchester Airports Group.

    I assume, though, that the Manchester Airports Group is not a private sector operation in the same way that, for example, your local McDonalds is.

    It's both; the largest shareholders (35% each) are Manchester City Council and IFM Investments of Australia, the remaining share of the company is divided across the other 9 local authorities in Greater Manchester.
  • stetson wrote: »
    :lol:

    Still, it's part of the *national infrastructure*, and damaging it, therefore, is not in accordance with True British Values™ - cutting a hole in it is surely heinous enough to warrant a jail sentence of at least 100 years.
    :wink:

    I know stopping the course of a plane can land you some relatively hefty penalties(google Nut Rage Incident), but I wonder what you get for just vandalizing planes that are being housed on government-affiliated property you illegally entered.

    If Deform ever get into power, death by hanging.
  • EigonEigon Shipmate
    I see that some Just Stop Oil protesters have thrown orange paint over some private jets, possibly including the one belonging to Taylor Swift?
    A much better target than Stonehenge!
  • Eigon wrote: »
    I see that some Just Stop Oil protesters have thrown orange paint over some private jets, possibly including the one belonging to Taylor Swift?
    A much better target than Stonehenge!

    That was some days ago, IIRC, and it was probably the same sort of paint (which washes off without leaving any damage).

    What caused Outrage was the fact that they cut a hole in the airport fence, and this crime alone seems (according to some of the Hangers and Floggers) to warrant 1000 years in Jail.
  • BroJames wrote: »
    The carbon emissions of manufacture of an EV are about 0.88 tonnes (https://www.acea.auto/figure/co2-emissions-from-car-production-in-eu/). So the manufacturing environmental cost would be wiped out by the first 9,300 km or 5,780 miles (about 7 months at our current mileages).

    This is the big difference between our numbers - your figure for CO2 produced by car production is about a tenth of the one I found. Part of the difference is US vs EU (US vehicles tend to be larger, and so presumably cost more energy to make), but I wonder whether there's also a difference between direct energy use by auto manufacturers vs all-in costs that include the energy cost to refine the steel, mine the lithium and so on.

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