What do you believe about God and such?
ChastMastr
Shipmate
in All Saints
I've been wondering what fellow Shipmates currently believe about God and such (and to a degree, what might have changed over the years). This can be general, or detailed if someone wants to be more detailed. Some will be Christians (traditional/orthodox or otherwise, and of course of all denominational stripes), some will be other faiths, some will be agnostics or atheists. All are welcome to say what they believe. I'll comment after a few other people comment.
Note: This is not a thread for argument or debate--just sharing what our current general positions are on religious matters, maybe the history of our beliefs, etc. I don't want this thread to wind up in Purgatory or Epiphanies.
Note: This is not a thread for argument or debate--just sharing what our current general positions are on religious matters, maybe the history of our beliefs, etc. I don't want this thread to wind up in Purgatory or Epiphanies.
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It took 4 years from the first dip of a toe into the water to the immersion of baptism and confirmation, and regular church attendance.
I have grown ever deeper in faith year by year.
Not sermons, though. O dear me, no...
In terms of belief, I can imagine an omnipotent deity quite happily. It's just humanity I can't believe in.
I can, however, make one clear and unequivocal statement of belief.
I believe I will have a beer.
The people who ran the station asked for a 'statement of faith' before they agreed to broadcast anything.
The priest and parish council were a bit puzzled by this but faxed over a copy of the Nicene Creed.
When it arrived the proprietors of the radio station, independent evangelicals of some kind, looked at it and scratched their heads.
Eventually one piped up, 'I've not seen this before but it looks pretty orthodox...'
Give me 'Mere Christianity' wheresoever it may be found. That's sufficient for me.
Oh, and let's be 'maximalist' about it while we are at it.
😉
As an elder, I’ve taken vows that I “sincerely receive and adopt the essential tenets of the Reformed faith as expressed in the confessions of our church as authentic and reliable expositions of what Scripture leads us to believe and do, [that I] will [] be instructed and led by those confessions as [ I ] lead the people of God[, and that I will] fulfill [my] ministry in obedience to Jesus Christ, under the authority of Scripture, and be continually guided by our confessions.” I take those vows seriously, confessionally speaking.* I sometimes describe myself as more on the “Reformed Catholic” end of the Reformed spectrum, and that includes a stronger liturgical bent than some Presbyterians.
Music is a primary way that my faith is nourished and expressed.
*For those wondering, the confessions in question are the Nicene Creed; the Apostle’s Creed; the Scots Confession; the Heidelberg Catechism; the Second Helvetic Confession; the Westminster Confession of Faith, Shorter Catechism, and Larger Catechism (as amended by the predecessor bodies of the PC(USA)); the Theological Declaration of Barmen; Confession of 1967; the Confession of Belhar: and A Brief Statement of Faith of the PC(USA).
From Oxford Languages:
maximalist
/ˈmaksɪməlɪst/
noun
(especially in politics) a person who holds extreme views and is not prepared to compromise.
Make of that what you will!
Nick Tamen, you remind me that I'm one of the very rare laywomen in my synod sworn to the same standards our pastors are, as the result of a liturgical not-quite-mix-up at a joint installation, 25 years ago. Though for us it's the Scriptures and the Lutheran Confessions, which include the ecumenical creeds.
I was actually imagining something like the opposite of minimalism in the way the home is set up, so lots of baroque decorations everywhere covering every square inch…
I’m not sure what Maximalism is in this specific context, but the rest of this is definitely my core theological stuff as well.
https://www.livius.org/articles/theory/maximalists-and-minimalists/#:~:text=Maximalist scholars assume that the,it can be confirmed archaeologically.
I'll go with 'love your neighbor' as a creed.
In the spirit of this thread and what the OP asks for, I’ll share the statement I’ve used the last two times I was installed on our congregation’s Session: FWIW.
😉
I'll get me coat ...
No, seriously, I don't mean inflexibility but a capacity to take a whole load of things on board, including paradox or multiple 'takes' on scriptural texts or on symbols, sacraments etc.
So, for instance, let's have both the more Alexandrian 'allegorical' approach and the Antiochian 'plain meaning' approach at one and the same time.
That sort of thing.
So was I, being rather inclined towards minimalism within church buildings, as well as within the liturgy!
Don't get me wrong. I can be 'moved' by plain and simple non-conformist chapels as well as starry-eyed over icons and all the trimmings.
I'm thinking of 'maximalism' in terms of belief rather than 'presentation' as it were, but the two are connected of course - lex orandi, lex credendi as I think the saying goes.
I've thought a lot about this question.
I've been a Christian all my life and have had experience of a variety of church traditions with their different theological emphases.
For me it's like there are two constant bookends in my faith, the Incarnation and the Resurrection, and everything else stored on that "shelf" between those bookends is movable and there have been all sorts of things I've put there, removed and even restored.
There is so much beauty and mystery to be explored in this life of faith!
Of all the stories of the gods, the one about the greatest one coming to live among the humblest of humanity is the most beautiful.
But it doesn't alter the fact that we live on a planet which is indifferent, and which we are altering to become actively hostile. Given the track record overall I can't regret the extinction of humanity.
The little bit of pagan sometimes thinks there's another Place where the beloved dead dwell, but I'm not counting on it.
This works for me too.
Less is more.
Lovely post
Worth a lot IMO
Fixed coding - Nenya, All Saints Host
I would describe myself as an agnostic atheist, meaning I don't believe in God or gods (or in my case, anything supernatural), but I am not dogmatic about it. I've been trying to figure out my path ever since.
I'm still a member of many Christian groups on Facebook because that's what my whole life has been centered around for 44 years; it's what I know best. And I can keep naughty Christians in line if they say something unbiblical, because my knowledge of the Scriptures is (if I may say so) (and I may) pretty strong.
Also all my closest friends are Christians, God bless 'em.
Well, it seems less important, and I have a sense of life carrying on. Well, why would it not, but I keep experiencing life flowing through everything without beginning or end, or point of view.
Thanks!
It's not a view I share personally, but I see what you mean.
I began working in more traditional music ministry during college, with my first couple/few jobs being Children's & Youth Choir oriented in UMC congregations. Along the way I served as a long-term sub in a paid Episcopal Church Choir, and a spark was kindled. I became a public school music teacher, moved out of state, got married, moved back, and in addition to teaching I took a part time job as the Director of Music at UMC. A former classmate was now at the ECUSA Parish in which I had subbed as a singer, and he asked me to join him as his Assistant. I did, even though on paper if was a slightly backwards move. Fully embraced the ECUSA. He went off to grad school. I ascended to become the part-time, then full-time DM. Left school teaching. Did that for five years -- best five years I've had, frankly. Formally joined the ECUSA. Left that position to become the FT Director of Worship Arts at a corporate sized, well-moneyed church out of state. After 18 months it was understood as a mutually "bad fit." Was released. Left church altogether for a while. Replaced church music with directing the local Civic Chorus. Worked for a landscaper as I completed coursework to reinstate my teaching license. Got a Catholic school position. Stuck with the Civic Chorus. Added a part-time role as Dir. of Christian Ed. at an ECUSA parish where Mrs. The Riv had gravitated after the "big" church job disintegrated. Settled for a bit. Went through discernment for Episcopal priesthood. Made it to the very end, but withdrew. Went down the rabbit hole of Christian/Atheist YouTube debates. Discovered Christopher Hitchens. Branched out from there. Read a fair bit of Bart Ehrman. Christian Ed. job got absorbed by a new Youth Minister position. Got a long-term sub position as parish musician at a large RC parish (still there after nine years). Left the Civic Chorus. Changed school jobs. Accepted that I no longer had religious faith. Have been adjusting ever since. Mrs. The Riv maintains her faith. Both of our two adult children think they believe in some higher power, but both aren't really interested in planting a flag right now.
I joke that I'm a lapsed Episcopalian, but at this point I'm closer to being agnostic.
I was brought up in a nominally Christian household, non-churchgoing, and by the time I was a teenager I was a solid atheist. I continued in this belief until I was about 25 when my second long term relationship (engaged both times) dissolved when my partner cheated on me. I realised that there was something missing from my life and I had substituted men for it.
I was reading up on various beliefs when my Christian friend invited me to a Discovering Christianity course at her church, St Helen’s Bishopsgate. 4 months later, I had a sudden conversion experience and an urge to pray (not at church but at home alone). I still know the date, 8th February 1994. I was baptised a few months later.
My faith was strengthened when I faced the hardest time in my life, when I had a mental breakdown and was diagnosed with manic depression, and 2 weeks later I was told my father was terminally ill. I learnt to trust in God when I could no longer trust in anything else, even my own mind.
St Helen’s left me with a love of 40 minute sermons, lol. And it was a great place to learn the bible from scratch. But I was one of the few working class people there and was more liberal than most. I have been to a variety of churches; evangelical Baptist, middle of the round Baptist, conservative evangelical Anglican, trad Anglican village church… Two of these had rather destructive church splits while I was there (started before I got there so not my fault!). We landed at our New Frontiers church whilst seeking a community to take refuge in and have been here 20 years. I don’t consider myself charismatic, I have never prophesied or spoken in tongues, but it is loving, kind, and has the all important 40 minute sermons
Then moved to Orkney where there was a Baptist church to which I was taken every Sunday; Mum and Dad were regular attenders, but not "active members", I think because they weren't TT, and didn't want to embarrass the members ...
Then I discovered Proper Church Music™ and started attending St Magnus Cathedral (Church of Scotland), where I was "confirmed", joined the choir and married the organist (who was an Anglican but loved all things Scottish including metrical psalms ...). Confirmed in the Church of Ireland (properly, by a bishop this time), and have been an Anglican/Piskie ever since. (My parents became disillusioned with the Baptists, who had become very cliquey, and transferred their allegiance to St Magnus Cathedral too, where my dad became an elder).
I do mean it when I say the Creed; apart from anything else, it confirms my hope that David is in Heaven and I'll see him again when I get there.
TT = teetotalers?
Megachurches?
My father was a children’ evangelist, working in villages at the invitation of local churches, so I got to experience many denominations when we accompanied him at weekends. We also lived opposite a RC church.
At university I went to the traditional low Anglican church packed with students every Sunday evening and felt I had ‘come home’.
I was nourished by the liturgy and the music. The sermons were memorable. I was baptised and confirmed by a bishop. I also studied Theology as a subsid. to my French degree. I became a Curate’s wife, very involved in parish life. The marriage lasted 11 years.
I have remained an Anglican, though have moved very much in ecumenical settings. Music and liturgy still nourish me.
My second husband was technically URC but by nature an Anglican. A painful split in our MOR parish church ( where I was on the PCC and produced the weekly news sheet) resulted in 45 leaving, some of us migrating to a neighbouring village church where we sing in the robed RSCM choir. I don’t get involved in anything else much at church these days. The deaths of my parents in 2001 and my husband in 2023 have each strengthened my belief in life after death.
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Yes - Mum and Dad definitely weren't - and neither am I!
Thanks for that memory and for the joy of seeing words of so many folks who are no longer on the Ship!
I do very much believe that God is involved in my life and has been helping and loving me always. However, my views on the Church are not as clear, and in many ways are downright negative.
My belief in the Bible has also changed throughout my life. The parts that are full of love and beauty stick with me, and are a guide to me. However, after many decades of consideration, I think the children of Israel biases, especially in the Old Testament, are pretty much hogwash. In my very puny, human opinion, I think that all the times that the OT says that God told the Israelites to kill every adult and child and all the livestock was just their way of giving themselves permission to be evil and violent and cruel, and to steal their property.
Yes, I consider myself a Christian and if asked (like I was on Tuesday this week) I will readily say so. I certainly don't believe God is happy with the evil, violent cruelty that is happening now, or throughout history.
I have to say I am very sorry to hear that sir. Something must have happened no?
Not entirely conventional beliefs, I know, but ones that I hold onto strongly.
Once I would have said I definitely had no trouble with either of the main creeds - the Nicene and the Apostles, but both make me uncomfortable now and I'm not sure whether I have stopped believing or whether in some respects I think creeds don't really matter, just trying to live justly, love mercy and being humble is enough.
Like @jedijudy said, I find bit of the Old Testament to be so awful and probably made up to justify horrible deeds the only takeaway message for me is that God loves and forgives really awful people, but if I were to revise the OT I'd have a red pen crossing out a lot of stuff.