Haggis and Hangovers - Scotland 2024

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Comments

  • @Sandemaniac me following your link to snicker childishly at the latest Irn Bru advert silliness ended up with me stumbling upon a whole thread of photo quotes from Derry Girls’s iconic Sister Michael, so I very much enjoyed that :smiley:
  • My pleasure!
  • Talking of Irn Bru, whatever happened to its 'Made from girders' slogan? I wondered if the advertising standards people had objected on the grounds that it might possibly be untrue. I thought it was a great slogan, and was going to somehow work it into my miniature engineering website if it hadn't disappeared. I have to admit that apart from a single sip may years ago, I have never drunk the stuff and assuredly never will now. It was more sugar than girders.
  • Alan Cresswell Alan Cresswell Admin, 8th Day Host
    Research shows that the Stonehenge Altar Stone is from Scotland, specifically from somewhere in the Orcadian Basin - further work may be able to narrow that down.
  • PigletPiglet All Saints Host, Circus Host
    edited August 2024
    I knew that the Neolithic stuff in Orkney was older than Stonehenge, but the words that immediately sprang to mind when I saw that were:

    1. How?
    2. Why?

    :confused:

    It was also interesting to note that the findings were published just a couple of days before the huge dig (and World Heritage Site) at the Ness of Brodgar in Orkney is to be re-buried.
  • Alan Cresswell Alan Cresswell Admin, 8th Day Host
    My immediate thought was "how long before Neil Oliver pops up and exclaims 'I told you so!'?". Oliver has for many years been a vocal proponent of the idea that megalithic culture (stone circles and other structures utilising massive stones) originated in Orkney, taking a stone from Orkney to form part of a circle elsewhere would be a way of creating a connection with the origin of megalithic architecture. Though, if that's true it might be expected to be a fairly common practice, and there'd be Orcadian stones in megalithic structures all over the UK, but the vast majority use entirely local stones (or, maybe the occasional stone that would appear to be a glacial erratic). Though Stonehenge does have several unique features - the evidence that the stones were re-arranged on several occasions is very unusual, the other blue stones being brought from Wales is a much greater distance for sourcing stones than is common, and there aren't burials associated with most stone circles either. So, it might not mean as much that there's another unique feature to the monument.
  • Alan Cresswell Alan Cresswell Admin, 8th Day Host
    The comments in the National are, predictably, dominated by talk of the English stealing Scottish stones.
  • BroJamesBroJames Purgatory Host
    When the only tool you have is a hammer…
  • There's nothing to say that the stone went straight from the Orcadian basin area to Stonehenge. Could have spent a generation or so in another henge between-times.
  • Yes, that was my thought.
  • Alan Cresswell Alan Cresswell Admin, 8th Day Host
    There's evidence that the rest of the blue stones at Stonehenge had originally been a circle in Wales, close to the source of those stones. So, no reason why the altar stone hadn't also been part of an earlier stone circle close to the (not yet pinpointed) source in the Orcadian basin. But, that still doesn't address the challenges of moving 6 tonnes of rock 700km.
  • Promise the people moving it a deep-fried supper when they get there?
  • There's evidence that the rest of the blue stones at Stonehenge had originally been a circle in Wales, close to the source of those stones. So, no reason why the altar stone hadn't also been part of an earlier stone circle close to the (not yet pinpointed) source in the Orcadian basin. But, that still doesn't address the challenges of moving 6 tonnes of rock 700km.

    It is starting to sound like the travelling tent revival meetings of a century ago. If you get enough people chanting in a circle around the stone it will raise itself up and be translated to the next stop. The people's faith weakened at Salisbury Plain, and there it stayed.
  • DoublethinkDoublethink Admin, 8th Day Host
    Could the Orcadian stone have been moved in some way geologically before it was commandeered by humans for a henge - glacial action or something ?
  • Alan Cresswell Alan Cresswell Admin, 8th Day Host
    No, the glaciers covering the Orcadian basin originated in the Scottish Highlands and were flowing north - rocks they carried are on the sea bed of the North Sea. The glaciers that deposited erratics in southern Britain originated in Cumbria, Pennines, and North Wales flowing south (except in the east of Britain, where for some glaciations the ice originated in Scandinavia).
  • PigletPiglet All Saints Host, Circus Host
    Promise the people moving it a deep-fried supper when they get there?

    [frivolity ON]

    Don't be daft; you can't get Proper Pattie Suppers™ anywhere except Orkney, so they'd have had to have one before they left ... :mrgreen:

    [/frivolity OFF]
  • Piglet wrote: »
    Promise the people moving it a deep-fried supper when they get there?

    [frivolity ON]

    Don't be daft; you can't get Proper Pattie Suppers™ anywhere except Orkney, so they'd have had to have one before they left ... :mrgreen:

    [/frivolity OFF]

    Well that told me!
  • PigletPiglet All Saints Host, Circus Host
    :naughty:
  • EigonEigon Shipmate
    I'm just back from Glasgow, where I went for the World SF Convention. I have eaten more haggis over five days than I have in the previous five years! And everyone in Glasgow was so friendly - I want to go back now to see more of the city than the SEC!
  • PigletPiglet All Saints Host, Circus Host
    Glaswegians are friendly; I fondly remember standing at a street corner gazing stupidly at an A-Z (it was a long time ago) and a lovely gentleman came up to me and asked where I was trying to get to, followed by giving me much more sensible directions. :)
  • North East QuineNorth East Quine Purgatory Host
    Did the directions include the Latin phrases errabus, norabus, annorrbus?

    And which Scottish comedian used to do the "Glaswegian directions in Latin" skit?
  • That was good, but us non-native speakers sometimes have to be quick to get it. There was a typical Glaswegian 'wee wumman' running the refreshment cart in the Oban train one day getting annoyed at the men wanting to get past to reach the bog. Once they'd squeezed by she announced to the whole carriage: "They men - their prostates are a' gone!"
  • Which anecdote reminds me of two Glaswegian ladies, friends of my late Ma (who lived in Scotland for the last 17 years of her life).

    The two ladies were on holiday in Egypt, shortly after a terrorist bomb incident in that country, and were asked by a local TV news reporter for their reaction to this alarming occurrence.

    As far as I can remember, their response (so they told me) was somewhat along the lines of *Och, we dinna fash oorselves - we're frae Glesga...!*
    :flushed:

    I apologise for probably mangling Glaswegian, but these two did speak with a strong accent, and were not above doing a comedy double act using it...
  • Alan Cresswell Alan Cresswell Admin, 8th Day Host
    Latest news on the Stonehenge Altar Stone is that the composition has now been compared to the Orcadian Basin stones used in megalithic structures on Orkney (and, there are a few of those ...) without any matches. Which would suggest that if it was quarried from Orkney it's from a site not used for any other extant standing stones on Orkney, which would seem very unlikely. Which puts the origin of the stone somewhere else in the formation, south of the Pentland Firth.
  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    Latest news on the Stonehenge Altar Stone is that the composition has now been compared to the Orcadian Basin stones used in megalithic structures on Orkney (and, there are a few of those ...) without any matches. Which would suggest that if it was quarried from Orkney it's from a site not used for any other extant standing stones on Orkney, which would seem very unlikely. Which puts the origin of the stone somewhere else in the formation, south of the Pentland Firth.

    Or, theoretically, Shetland. Now wouldn't that be a surprise!
  • Alan Cresswell Alan Cresswell Admin, 8th Day Host
    There are outcrops of the rocks in southern Shetland, but more extensive outcrops in Caithness and also around the Moray Firth.
  • PigletPiglet All Saints Host, Circus Host
    edited September 2024
    I saw the articles about that today too; I can't help feeling just a peedie* bit disappointed!

    * little
  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    There are outcrops of the rocks in southern Shetland, but more extensive outcrops in Caithness and also around the Moray Firth.

    Yeah, I was thinking both of the relatively small amount there and the sheer how-the-fuckery of getting the stone from there.
  • There are outcrops of the rocks in southern Shetland, but more extensive outcrops in Caithness and also around the Moray Firth.

    Yeah, I was thinking both of the relatively small amount there and the sheer how-the-fuckery of getting the stone from there.

    That is a stunning turn of phrase, and I must find ways of using it. It describes the situation perfectly!
  • The answer to the second part is by water. Once it has been floated down the west coast, it doesn't have to get any further over land than with the previously mooted Welsh source. The part I don't know about is getting it round to the west coast.
  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    The answer to the second part is by water. Once it has been floated down the west coast, it doesn't have to get any further over land than with the previously mooted Welsh source. The part I don't know about is getting it round to the west coast.

    Problem is that, unlike Orkney, Shetland isn't on the coast of Scotland mainland. It's one thing to wait for a calm day and paddle slowly and carefully across the Pentland Firth (risky as heck but doable). Shetland would mean crossing 50 miles of open water just to reach Orkney, and another 50 to get to the mainland.
  • Since I (theoretically!) have more time in retirement, I was wondering what places in my home country I should make the most of for short trips.

    So I am here to crowd-source ideas!

    Here are the places I have been to and think I know pretty well already:
    Glasgow
    Edinburgh
    Dundee
    Perth (and some parts of Perthshire)
    Loch Lomond & around
    Loch Tay & around
    Loch Awe & St Conan’s Kirk
    Ayrshire
    Lanarkshire
    Fife
    Skye
    Harris & Lewis

    I know I really ought to visit Orkney and Shetland (on the list) but I am also interested in places where I could spend a couple of days in nice scenery in cosy lodgings, reachable by train (or train & short ferry). Nice running routes and local delicacies a bonus!

    Any suggestions, folks? Thanks heaps in anticipation…

  • The Moray coast. Often overlooked, but quite lovely.
  • You have nothing north of Inverness on that list. There’s a lot of country up there, and a train line.
  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    Mull and Iona would seem an obvious choice. The island bakery can be sampled in many places but they produce their tasty biscuits in Mull. Mull is reachable from Oban (which is itself accessible by fairly regular train or coach). And of course Iona is steeped in ancient and modern ecclesiastical and political history.

    I would suggest you visit us out here, but you specified short ferry rides. :D
  • BroJamesBroJames Purgatory Host
    Cathscats wrote: »
    The Moray coast. Often overlooked, but quite lovely.
    Words out of my mouth!

  • Aberdeen! No nice scenery in central Aberdeen, but Old Aberdeen is lovely and has everything - a large park for running round, a cathedral, a pretty High Street, cafes, Botanical Gardens, the view from the top of the library...



  • Stonehaven. I think you could run along the sea front, you can walk to Dunottar Castle, there's a very good sweetie / ice cream shop. In the summer there's the open air pool. Several cafes etc and an excellent Indian restaurant.
  • Dornoch. The train will only take you as far as Tain, so you'd have to get a bus from Tain to Dornoch. Glorious sweep of beach, several cosy B&Bs, picturesque centre, lots of options for eating, an interesting cathedral. Also the site of the last witch burning in Scotland. It gets quite a lot of upmarket tourists for the golf and has some nice, upmarket shops.
  • Thanks for all these brilliant suggestions so far, @Cathscats , @Arethosemyfeet , @BroJames and @North East Quine -

    I think I am going to buy a paper map of Scotland tomorrow, to mark up some routes that might put a couple of these nice places together.

    (Stonehaven had me at ‘sweetie / ice cream shop’ :smile: )
  • The Stonehaven sweetie / ice cream shop is Giulianottis, established 1899.
  • FirenzeFirenze Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    You think you know Scotland until you go north of the Grampians. The Pentland Firth coast is a must - suggest Bettyhill, though other lodgings available. Not many though, since this is genuinely wild country.
  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    I do have a liking for the far north-west, but it's really not public transport country.
  • I do have a liking for the far north-west, but it's really not public transport country.

    I'm not really sure it qualifies as
    Cameron wrote: »
    places where I could spend a couple of days in nice scenery

    either, on the grounds that it's likely to take you most of a day to get there and most of a day to get back, even if there were public transport!

    In similar vein, Dumfries & Galloway (or parts thereof) are lovely, but less accessible. you can go to Dumfries on the train, but I'm not sure how much further one can get. And it's the further bits that I enjoy!
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited September 2024
    My Ma lived (and died) in Dumfriesshire (obit:2005), and, although it's a lovely part of Scotland, it can indeed be a bit off the beaten track.

    Her house was a few miles west of Thornhill, which, although it lost its railway station many years ago, is served (IIRC) correctly by a regular stage-carriage bus service between Kilmarnock (? or more likely Glasgow) and Dumfries. The railway line itself is still open for through traffic, I think.

    Alas! the railway from Dumfries to Stranraer was also closed many years ago, along with several interesting branch lines, but wasn't rebuilding it part of Boris Johnson's fantasy of a rail/road Bridge from Scotland to Northern Ireland? He forgot (or they forgot to tell him) that railways in Ireland are not laid to the same gauge as they are here...
  • By coincidence, we are heading for a week in D&G tomorrow, with the advantage of our own transport.
  • PigletPiglet All Saints Host, Circus Host
    Cameron wrote: »
    ... I know I really ought to visit Orkney …

    You certainly should! :heart:

    If you don't mind taking a gamble with the weather, it'd probably be easier to find accommodation in the autumn/winter - it gets very booked up in the summer or during any of the several festivals that go on there.
  • Those who know know. I've just been chopping kale.
  • Stranraer is a lovely town to visit on a nice day,but for me my favourite part of Scotland is the road from Inveraray down to Lochgilphead and then down to Tarbert and over to West Loch Tarbert (Ferry to Islay ?). Continue down the Atlantic coast road where again you can take a ferry over to Gigha and then on down to Campbeltown which is at the end of the world ( and you can see Ireland).
    You can return on the other side of the Kintyre peninsula with wonderful views over to Arran and even,if you wish take the ferry from Clunaig over to Arran.
  • ps if you use your perhaps newly acquired bus pass you can do it all for nothing (apart from the optional ferry trips).
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