Right at the end before the blessing.
If there is a newsletter, what is the point of notices unless something has been left out of it?
You assume that people read the newsletter.
Conversely, I have zero chance of remembering anything announced verbally unless it's also in the newsletter and for good measure on the website as well.
Honestly I don’t know if I'd have been able to function as an independent adult pre-internet.
I don't read newsletters, because people are incapable of not including ridiculous amounts of boilerplate and window-dressing. If you want to tell me that there's a fundraising dinner at church in aid of some charity or other, send an email that says that. Give it the subject "Fundraising dinner for X charity, Oct 10 2024" or something, and in the email, name the charity or appeal that funds are sought for, the meal that is on offer, the date/time, the price, and instructions for how to sign up."
I don't want to wade through a dozen pages of PDF containing clip-art of people praying, the same boilerplate that was in there last week, and a load of other nonsense just to get to the information.
I certainly agree that notices - whether spoken or printed - should be as short and concise as possible.
Emails are good, though not everyone (even these days!) uses them. At Our Place, FatherInCharge sends out an email to all those *friends and members* who have given him leave to do so, and this message always includes a great deal of information, as well as separate Word or PDF documents with yet more Stuff - the Sunday Mass readings, posters for folk to print off and put in their front windows, Food Bank wants list etc. etc.
He still produces a printed weekly A4 sheet, with readings on one side, and notices (including Mass times for the coming week) on the other - those of you in the C of E and RCC in the UK may be familiar with the Redemptorist Fathers' versions of the Sunday readings sheets (we use the C of E option).
The weekly sheet is the one handed to people on Sundays, along with the hymnbook and service booklet, and I publish an edited version of it on Our Place's website.
To add icing to the cake, two of the Faithful Few produce a neat quarterly A5 Parish News, which others of the Faithful distribute - by hand - to as many of the residences in the parish as can be managed. Whether or not this is a useful exercise is open to question, but it does sometimes result in visitors, new faces at the monthly Community Cafe/Jumble Sale, and even the occasional enquiry about baptisms...
Right at the end before the blessing.
If there is a newsletter, what is the point of notices unless something has been left out of it?
You assume that people read the newsletter.
Conversely, I have zero chance of remembering anything announced verbally unless it's also in the newsletter and for good measure on the website as well.
Honestly I don’t know if I'd have been able to function as an independent adult pre-internet.
I don't read newsletters, because people are incapable of not including ridiculous amounts of boilerplate and window-dressing. If you want to tell me that there's a fundraising dinner at church in aid of some charity or other, send an email that says that. Give it the subject "Fundraising dinner for X charity, Oct 10 2024" or something, and in the email, name the charity or appeal that funds are sought for, the meal that is on offer, the date/time, the price, and instructions for how to sign up."
I don't want to wade through a dozen pages of PDF containing clip-art of people praying, the same boilerplate that was in there last week, and a load of other nonsense just to get to the information.
Newsletters in every church I've attended have run to one side of A5.
Our Place's is one side of A4, but it includes a list of people/topics/streets to be prayed for, the schedule of services and meetings for the coming week (we have a daily Mass), and contact details for priest and churchwardens.
At one time, during our last interregnum, I was responsible for the sheet, and managed to include details of forthcoming events (the list of services was shorter!), but, even so, had to be economical with words - and careful to use a clear type face...
When I did ours, it was normally four sides of A5, but that included full lists ( hymns, readings) for the four services held each week). I was frequently complimented for the presentation and variety of other notices. People gradually realised it was worth taking home, though the faithful received it by e-mail.
Nowadays there is not enough going on to warrant a notice sheet.
Ah! If you want waffle, then FatherInCharge's weekly email is for you! Bless the man - it's his style, so it's not fair to be too critical, but it takes a bit of getting used to...sometimes, he goes on a bit too much about evil cats, evil weeds, and/or evil football teams...
The printed sheet is not too bad, but the version I put on the website is edited, to correct grammar/spelling/syntax etc., and to remove any personal details about the *sick and suffering*.
First names only, first name and initial of surname for the recently-departed - there are Malefactors who trawl church websites for names of people who have died, so that they (the Malefactors) can prey on grieving families...
I can't speak for Thomas Cranmer, of course, but I wonder if he placed the notices etc. in the Communion Service before the sermon, because he realised that (despite his hopes) not everyone would stay for the whole service?
I think that in practice that was what happened. People (who were encouraged by the long medieval tradition not to receive the sacrament unless 'shriven', and discouraged by the new regime from attending the eucharist without receiving) simply left en masse (or rather hors mass) after the sermon. Hence the tradition of Mattins, Litany and Ante-Communion which was the norm in much of the C of E for a couple of centuries.
I can't speak for Thomas Cranmer, of course, but I wonder if he placed the notices etc. in the Communion Service before the sermon, because he realised that (despite his hopes) not everyone would stay for the whole service?
I think that in practice that was what happened. People (who were encouraged by the long medieval tradition not to receive the sacrament unless 'shriven', and discouraged by the new regime from attending the eucharist without receiving) simply left en masse (or rather hors mass) after the sermon. Hence the tradition of Mattins, Litany and Ante-Communion which was the norm in much of the C of E for a couple of centuries.
Yes, that was my thought. The Prayer Books (from 1549 on, I guess) seem to assume the Lord's Supper as being the principal service on Sundays and Holy Days, with Mattins and Evensong as *extras*, but it mostly didn't quite work out that way...
Thinking back a bit to pre-Reformation days, how were folk informed of upcoming Masses, Mission Sermons, Guild Feasts, Church Ales etc. etc.? By word of mouth, I suppose!
I can't speak for Thomas Cranmer, of course, but I wonder if he placed the notices etc. in the Communion Service before the sermon, because he realised that (despite his hopes) not everyone would stay for the whole service?
I think that in practice that was what happened. People (who were encouraged by the long medieval tradition not to receive the sacrament unless 'shriven', and discouraged by the new regime from attending the eucharist without receiving) simply left en masse (or rather hors mass) after the sermon. Hence the tradition of Mattins, Litany and Ante-Communion which was the norm in much of the C of E for a couple of centuries.
Yes, that was my thought. The Prayer Books (from 1549 on, I guess) seem to assume the Lord's Supper as being the principal service on Sundays and Holy Days, with Mattins and Evensong as *extras*, but it mostly didn't quite work out that way...
Thinking back a bit to pre-Reformation days, how were folk informed of upcoming Masses, Mission Sermons, Guild Feasts, Church Ales etc. etc.? By word of mouth, I suppose!
I think it’s some sort of ancient juju personally - in deeply rural multi parish benefices the ability of sundry ageing pensioners or isolated farmers to know exactly which service is happening where (and at what time) on a Sunday is a thing that puts telepathy to shame.
I can't speak for Thomas Cranmer, of course, but I wonder if he placed the notices etc. in the Communion Service before the sermon, because he realised that (despite his hopes) not everyone would stay for the whole service?
I think that in practice that was what happened. People (who were encouraged by the long medieval tradition not to receive the sacrament unless 'shriven', and discouraged by the new regime from attending the eucharist without receiving) simply left en masse (or rather hors mass) after the sermon. Hence the tradition of Mattins, Litany and Ante-Communion which was the norm in much of the C of E for a couple of centuries.
Yes, that was my thought. The Prayer Books (from 1549 on, I guess) seem to assume the Lord's Supper as being the principal service on Sundays and Holy Days, with Mattins and Evensong as *extras*, but it mostly didn't quite work out that way...
Thinking back a bit to pre-Reformation days, how were folk informed of upcoming Masses, Mission Sermons, Guild Feasts, Church Ales etc. etc.? By word of mouth, I suppose!
I think it’s some sort of ancient juju personally - in deeply rural multi parish benefices the ability of sundry ageing pensioners or isolated farmers to know exactly which service is happening where (and at what time) on a Sunday is a thing that puts telepathy to shame.
I think all rural English parish churches were built on ley lines, onto which dioceses have unerringly but untintentionally overlaid modern benefices.
It’s the only explanation.
You may well be right. I couldn't possibly comment.
It's certainly true, I think, that it was probably easier in more settled Days Gone By to know what was going on and when - perhaps not entirely by telepathy, but certainly by custom, word-of-mouth, and how far down the Sun had sunk (to know when the bell for Vespers would be sounding...).
I can't speak for Thomas Cranmer, of course, but I wonder if he placed the notices etc. in the Communion Service before the sermon, because he realised that (despite his hopes) not everyone would stay for the whole service?
I think that in practice that was what happened. People (who were encouraged by the long medieval tradition not to receive the sacrament unless 'shriven', and discouraged by the new regime from attending the eucharist without receiving) simply left en masse (or rather hors mass) after the sermon. Hence the tradition of Mattins, Litany and Ante-Communion which was the norm in much of the C of E for a couple of centuries.
Yes, that was my thought. The Prayer Books (from 1549 on, I guess) seem to assume the Lord's Supper as being the principal service on Sundays and Holy Days, with Mattins and Evensong as *extras*, but it mostly didn't quite work out that way...
Thinking back a bit to pre-Reformation days, how were folk informed of upcoming Masses, Mission Sermons, Guild Feasts, Church Ales etc. etc.? By word of mouth, I suppose!
I think it’s some sort of ancient juju personally - in deeply rural multi parish benefices the ability of sundry ageing pensioners or isolated farmers to know exactly which service is happening where (and at what time) on a Sunday is a thing that puts telepathy to shame.
I think all rural English parish churches were built on ley lines, onto which dioceses have unerringly but untintentionally overlaid modern benefices.
It’s the only explanation.
You may well be right. I couldn't possibly comment.
It's certainly true, I think, that it was probably easier in more settled Days Gone By to know what was going on and when - perhaps not entirely by telepathy, but certainly by custom, word-of-mouth, and how far down the Sun had sunk (to know when the bell for Vespers would be sounding...).
‘Far away, across the fields, the tolling of the iron bell…’
Well yes. Since most of the population of England were country-dwellers, and few moved far from their home villages, there would be a settled routine of liturgy in the parish church which people would absorb as it were by osmosis. Bells would remind them of fixed points such as the Angelus and the elevation at Mass. There would be little need for announcements although no doubt some would be given verbally. Printed notice sheets (even had they the technology) would be pointless as most people would be illiterate.
I'm currently (re-)reading Eamonn Duffy's The Voices of Morebath, about the impact of the so-called Reformation on a remote Devon village. Fascinating and saddening. But late-medieval England was another world – the last gasp of Christendom perhaps – and today the Church has to compete in the marketplace. Hence the current discussion.
Catching up a bit here, I found the precise holy writ upon which our own church's practice has been based since the days soon after it was founded in 1880:
In January, 1882, a deliverance was given by the Session anent reading pulpit notices, which had grown to such excess that they had “a distracting tendency, when read at the close of the services, to unseat the savour of divine things produced and resting upon the mind through the ministry of the Word”. It was thereupon decided to read such as were permissible before the sermon, and these were only those bearing upon our own work as a congregation; the public press being regarded as the proper channel for all other intimations.
*...a distracting tendency, when read at the close of the services, to unseat the savour of divine things produced and resting upon the mind through the ministry of the Word and Sacrament.*
Yes indeed, and very nicely put. I've added the words in italics...
Comments
I don't read newsletters, because people are incapable of not including ridiculous amounts of boilerplate and window-dressing. If you want to tell me that there's a fundraising dinner at church in aid of some charity or other, send an email that says that. Give it the subject "Fundraising dinner for X charity, Oct 10 2024" or something, and in the email, name the charity or appeal that funds are sought for, the meal that is on offer, the date/time, the price, and instructions for how to sign up."
I don't want to wade through a dozen pages of PDF containing clip-art of people praying, the same boilerplate that was in there last week, and a load of other nonsense just to get to the information.
Emails are good, though not everyone (even these days!) uses them. At Our Place, FatherInCharge sends out an email to all those *friends and members* who have given him leave to do so, and this message always includes a great deal of information, as well as separate Word or PDF documents with yet more Stuff - the Sunday Mass readings, posters for folk to print off and put in their front windows, Food Bank wants list etc. etc.
He still produces a printed weekly A4 sheet, with readings on one side, and notices (including Mass times for the coming week) on the other - those of you in the C of E and RCC in the UK may be familiar with the Redemptorist Fathers' versions of the Sunday readings sheets (we use the C of E option).
The weekly sheet is the one handed to people on Sundays, along with the hymnbook and service booklet, and I publish an edited version of it on Our Place's website.
To add icing to the cake, two of the Faithful Few produce a neat quarterly A5 Parish News, which others of the Faithful distribute - by hand - to as many of the residences in the parish as can be managed. Whether or not this is a useful exercise is open to question, but it does sometimes result in visitors, new faces at the monthly Community Cafe/Jumble Sale, and even the occasional enquiry about baptisms...
Newsletters in every church I've attended have run to one side of A5.
At one time, during our last interregnum, I was responsible for the sheet, and managed to include details of forthcoming events (the list of services was shorter!), but, even so, had to be economical with words - and careful to use a clear type face...
Nowadays there is not enough going on to warrant a notice sheet.
The printed sheet is not too bad, but the version I put on the website is edited, to correct grammar/spelling/syntax etc., and to remove any personal details about the *sick and suffering*.
First names only, first name and initial of surname for the recently-departed - there are Malefactors who trawl church websites for names of people who have died, so that they (the Malefactors) can prey on grieving families...
I think that in practice that was what happened. People (who were encouraged by the long medieval tradition not to receive the sacrament unless 'shriven', and discouraged by the new regime from attending the eucharist without receiving) simply left en masse (or rather hors mass) after the sermon. Hence the tradition of Mattins, Litany and Ante-Communion which was the norm in much of the C of E for a couple of centuries.
Yes, that was my thought. The Prayer Books (from 1549 on, I guess) seem to assume the Lord's Supper as being the principal service on Sundays and Holy Days, with Mattins and Evensong as *extras*, but it mostly didn't quite work out that way...
Thinking back a bit to pre-Reformation days, how were folk informed of upcoming Masses, Mission Sermons, Guild Feasts, Church Ales etc. etc.? By word of mouth, I suppose!
I think it’s some sort of ancient juju personally - in deeply rural multi parish benefices the ability of sundry ageing pensioners or isolated farmers to know exactly which service is happening where (and at what time) on a Sunday is a thing that puts telepathy to shame.
It’s the only explanation.
You may well be right. I couldn't possibly comment.
It's certainly true, I think, that it was probably easier in more settled Days Gone By to know what was going on and when - perhaps not entirely by telepathy, but certainly by custom, word-of-mouth, and how far down the Sun had sunk (to know when the bell for Vespers would be sounding...).
‘Far away, across the fields, the tolling of the iron bell…’
I'm currently (re-)reading Eamonn Duffy's The Voices of Morebath, about the impact of the so-called Reformation on a remote Devon village. Fascinating and saddening. But late-medieval England was another world – the last gasp of Christendom perhaps – and today the Church has to compete in the marketplace. Hence the current discussion.
Have you ever heard one? If you thought handbells were bad, you should hear steel ones...
In January, 1882, a deliverance was given by the Session anent reading pulpit notices, which had grown to such excess that they had “a distracting tendency, when read at the close of the services, to unseat the savour of divine things produced and resting upon the mind through the ministry of the Word”. It was thereupon decided to read such as were permissible before the sermon, and these were only those bearing upon our own work as a congregation; the public press being regarded as the proper channel for all other intimations.
Yes indeed, and very nicely put. I've added the words in italics...