Psalm 50 (51):19. A broken spirit

Verse 19 of Psalm 50 - or 51 depending on which Bible we use - states that, 'A sacrifice to God is a broken spirit, A broken and a humbled heart God will not despise.'

The context of course is that God appears to be more interested in inner motivation and attitude rather than outward or ceremonial sacrifices. The inner reality of such sacrifices or ritual actions.

What does this mean for us in practice within our own worshipping communities, if we are involved with those?

How can we avoid extremes that might seek to 'break' the human will in an abusive or harmful way? I'm thinking of cultic practices or the way some Christian traditions sought to 'break the will of the child' and so on - or extreme forms of self-abnegation.

What does it mean to have 'a broken and a humbled' - or 'contrite' heart - and if we knew we had one would that mean that we were no longer humble and contrite?

False humility and spiritual pride are treacherous foes.

How do you interpret these verses and how can we practice them unselfconsciously and with integrity?

Comments


  • Given the Psalm that occurs in, and the events that brought it on (David's adultery and murder, and God sending Nathan to call him to repentance), I think the "broken and contrite heart" (ESV version, see below) is an attitude only the Holy Spirit brings about. I rather doubt any human efforts to "break" someone's spirit (another's or their own) are going to have much effect. We can of course pray...

    The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit;
    a broken and contrite heart, O God, you will not despise.
  • I think that verse needs to be taken in context with at least the two preceding verses:
    O Lord, you will open my lips
    and my mouth will proclaim your praise.

    For if you wanted sacrifice, I would have offered it,
    but you take no pleasure in whole-burnt offerings.

    A sacrifice to God is a ground-down spirit;
    a ground-down and humbled heart
    God will not treat with contempt

    The grinding down is our own task, not someone else's.
    As in "Not my will, but yours, O God."
  • What I'm about to say is I know a personal application rather than a scholarly analysis (for the record I am a Classics graduate so do have some understanding of such things!).

    This verse was salvation to me at a very dark time in my life many years ago.
    I was almost completely broken because of something that had happened to me. I was still managing to go to work as a teacher but I was really suffering. Because of this I was asked to step down from all the church lay ministry that I was involved in at the time. I think it was meant kindly but the result was that I felt a failure and useless, even punished in the outward working of my spiritual life.
    Then in my daily devotions came this verse, as balm and healing.
    I still had something of value to contribute- I could offer my brokenness and humbling to God.

    And it really was enough and saved me from completely imploding.
  • I can understand that @MrsBeaky.

    Meanwhile, we appear to have two conflicting - or are they complementary? - positions on the 'mechanics' as it were.

    One is that it is only the Holy Spirit who can bring about the 'broken and contrite spirit.' Which begs the question through what agency? A directly 'supernatural' one or through force of circumstances, various methods and 'means' etc?

    The other, as expressed by @cgichard is that it is something we do to or for ourselves. Which also raises the question of how and by what means?

    Could we run the risk of spiritual pride here? 'Look at me, Lord. Look how humble I'm being...'

    What does any of this mean in practice? Regular confession and communion, if we are in a tradition that values and practices those?

    Forms of self-denial?
  • The other, as expressed by @cgichard is that it is something we do to or for ourselves. Which also raises the question of how and by what means?
    By continually subduing our innate tendency to pride.
    Establishment of Truth depends on destruction of Falsehood continually,
    On Circumcision, not on Virginity, O Reasoners of Albion.
    Blake, Jerusalem III.55
  • I see it as our being ready and willing to say ‘yes’ to God, allowing God’s will to be of higher priority than our own.
  • Meanwhile, we appear to have two conflicting - or are they complementary? - positions on the 'mechanics' as it were.

    One is that it is only the Holy Spirit who can bring about the 'broken and contrite spirit.' Which begs the question through what agency? A directly 'supernatural' one or through force of circumstances, various methods and 'means' etc?

    The other, as expressed by @cgichard is that it is something we do to or for ourselves. Which also raises the question of how and by what means?

    Or both (;-?) Perhaps the Holy Spirit gives us strength and support to face our limitations while we go through the voluntary process of
    cgichard wrote: »
    continually subduing our innate tendency to pride.

  • The village idiot weighing in here.

    @cgichard rightly observed that we need to view the full context, but I think it is interesting to expand even further. What we are discussing is Psalm 51. But it flows naturally from the preceding Psalm 50, which I loosely interpret as God saying: "Look, you are really good at doing the burnt offerings (verse 8)...but you are forgetting the POINT of the offerings. I don't actually need or want dead bulls or goats. (vv. 9 -13) What I really want is the sincere heart: for you to thank me (v. 14) and turn to me in times of trouble (v. 15). In other words, just doing sacrifices by rote but without a faithful heart are meaningless.

    Then we get Psalm 51 which, as @Lamb Chopped rightly observed, needs to be read in context of David's actions. But David realizes that just doing sacrifices by rote are not enough (v. 16). Clearly David has learned the lesson of Psalm 50. What is need is a sincere heart--sincere repentance, not just going through the motions. What is needed is an honestly contrite spirit (a "broken" one) (v. 17). A recognition (a) that one has violated God's law, and (b) that one needs forgiveness.

    I love C.S. Lewis' phrase about confession. He observes that so many, in "confessing," only offer God excuses for their conduct rather than truly seeking forgiveness. Lewis observes that conduct that is truly "excusable" is, by God's grace, automatically excused. What we need to bring to God is the bit that is left over: the conduct that is "inexcusable but not, thank God, unforgivable." (I think that is a paraphrase, but I am sure it is pretty accurate.) That is what David is doing in Psalm 51: admitting that his actions were inexcusable, but asking for forgiveness with a truly contrite heart and not an arrogant heart demanding to be "excused" rather than "forgiven."

    As for the Holy Spirit's influence in all of this, that is beyond me. But the fact that David does seem to understand what he needs to do to be forgiven suggests the Holy Spirit guided his mind to the proper path, overcoming human arrogance to submit oneself, broken and repentant, to God.
  • St John Climacus, one-time abbot of the monastery at Mt Sinai, quotes the not pleasing God with sacrifices and having a humble and contrite heart, not unexpectedly, in his step (chapter) on humility. Earlier I think he explains what this means practically well:
    And one said: ‘[Humility] means constant
    oblivion of one’s achievements.’ Another: ‘It is the acknowledgement of oneself as the last of all and the greatest sinner of all.’ And another: ‘The mind’s recognition of one’s weakness and impotence.’
    Another again: ‘In fits of rage it means to forestall one’s neighbour and be first to stop the quarrel.’ And again another: ‘Recognition of divine grace and divine mercy.’ And again another: ‘The feeling of a
    contrite soul, and the renunciation of one’s own will.’
  • ClimacusClimacus Shipmate
    edited November 2024
    Sorry...hit Post early.

    Though he is clear it is a gift from God
    It is unspeakable wealth, a name and gift from God, for it is said: Learn not from an angel, not from man, and not from a book, but from Me, that is, from Me indwelling, from My illumination and action in you, for I am meek and humble in heart and in thought and in spirit, and your souls shall find rest from conflicts and relief from arguments.
  • MaryLouiseMaryLouise Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    Every now and again, I think many of us go through major upheavals or traumas where the carpet is pulled from under our feet and it feels as if we have to start all over again from scratch. I can identify very much with @MrsBeaky here because my partner's unexpected death and the loss of my home earlier this year signalled a kind of wilderness for me -- as if I have been stumbling around in the dark, clueless, inadequate and broken. Psalm 50/51 has been a prayer I have come back to over and over.
  • Ok. Some excellent points by many posters and I think we'd all agree on the contextual aspects. Again, some personal application too from both @MrsBeaky and @MaryLouise about times of trauma and stress. 😞

    I can understand the emphasis @cgichard brings on subduing our pride etc but how do we do that and in doing so how do we avoid 'false humility' and a kind of Uriah Heep spirituality?
  • ClimacusClimacus Shipmate
    edited November 2024
    I may be misunderstanding, sorry, but I think false humility/pride may be something we can struggle with our entire lives.

    As several priests have told me, just get on with it. Even if our mind is saying something else or it is a major effort, acts of humility (and other acts) demonstrate our love. A good examination of our conscience can help root out any false humility, of which we should not despair: like any struggle, it takes time -- maybe til our dying breath as above.
  • You can always ask the Lord to handle your pride problem (which I do) though it’s a bit dangerous, as he can and will arrange embarrassing pratfalls for me when needed!
    Seriously, though, he knows when things are getting out of hand and can think of much more effective antidotes than i can. And the mere remembrance of that fact (😳 🤣) has kept me on the straight and narrow more than once!
  • Hmmm ... 'humble yourselves under the mighty hand of God and he will exalt you in due time.'

    I'm sure the Lord is perfectly capable of arranging banana-skins for us to skid on but generally I imagine he'd expect us to work on our 'pride problem' ourselves, with the help of his grace of course.

    Synergia and all that.

    I think the priestly advice that @cgichard cites is on the money. Just keep going. I have a tendency to overthink things. So attending Vespers and the Liturgy regularly, whether anything clicks or zings or not, is probably what I need to do. Otherwise we get a bit like the elder brother in the parable of the Prodigal Son. 'Hey, what about a fatted calf or a goat for me?'
  • I once went to an event in which Richard Rohr was speaking. He said that he asks God every morning to embarrass him during the course of the day to keep him from pride, and God never lets him down.
  • Hmmm ... 'humble yourselves under the mighty hand of God and he will exalt you in due time.'

    I'm sure the Lord is perfectly capable of arranging banana-skins for us to skid on but generally I imagine he'd expect us to work on our 'pride problem' ourselves, with the help of his grace of course.

    Synergia and all that.

    I think the priestly advice that @cgichard cites is on the money. Just keep going. I have a tendency to overthink things. So attending Vespers and the Liturgy regularly, whether anything clicks or zings or not, is probably what I need to do. Otherwise we get a bit like the elder brother in the parable of the Prodigal Son. 'Hey, what about a fatted calf or a goat for me?'

    Very frankly, if the Lord left me to arrange my own banana peels, I'd screw it up. Most likely I'd go too lightly on myself, though there have been occasions when I've been astonished to discover God thought it was too much. That's why I prefer to leave him to handle it (I ask, just as Richard Rohr does, though I don't specify a timeframe, why not let God handle that too?).

    Notice that the verse you quote supports my view--the mighty hand of God is involved in your situation (and the resulting humbling) and so also for exaltation. This isn't a human-led thing, though there's certainly a human responding!
  • I didn't say it was a 'human led' thing. If anything we could say that Rohr asking God to embarrass him is a human-led thing. It's not as if God is asking him each morning, 'Now then, how would you like me to humiliate or embarrass you today?'

    I'm saying it's a synergia thing. Both/and, remember? 😉
  • Raptor Eye wrote: »
    I once went to an event in which Richard Rohr was speaking. He said that he asks God every morning to embarrass him during the course of the day to keep him from pride, and God never lets him down.

    If he's anything like me there's no need to pray for that any more than I need pray for traffic lights to turn red as I approach.
  • Sure. I'm pretty sure we are all more than capable of embarrassing ourselves without asking the Almighty to do it for us.

    There is the Apostle Paul's 'thorn in the flesh' thing, though, which will have been the subject of a few Kerygmania threads I imagine.

    But then it appears he had all sorts of revelations and so on. Spiritual pride is a deadly thing

    An Anglican 'spiritual director' told me the other day that she invites retreatants when using the Ignatian 'examen' to ask God to show them what they've done well or badly that day rather than trying to think it through themselves. 'That way we take the ego out of it,' she said. 'We take the ego out of the way.'

    But do we?

    How do we know we aren't simply projecting our own thoughts onto the Almighty?

    I feel good about such and such, therefore God must approve.

    I feel bad about such and such, therefore he mustn't.

    These are tricky areas for discernment.

    Perhaps I'm over-reacting to my pietistic Protestant days, but I don't tend to think or operate like that any more. I'm learning more towards the exsmple @cgichard gave of priests who say, 'just get on with it.'

    I know that as soon as I start to analyse I'll over-think and get bogged down in ifs, buts, whys and wherefores. People recommend spiritual journaling, for instance but I can't see how I could do that without meandering off down solipsistic rabbit holes.

    That's not to disparage those who find that helpful.
  • I'm learning more towards the exsmple @cgichard gave of priests who say, 'just get on with it.
    Nothing in either of my posts is or was attributed to a priest.
  • Apologies. It was @Climacus who alluded to priestly advice, not you @cgichard. Many apologies for the mistaken identity.

    'Just get on with it,' is good advice though.

    I've been thinking - over-thinking? - about these things and whilst it is a very 'human' thing to read patterns into whatever happens, I can certainly think of times when I've had pratfalls that involved loss of status or influence and prestige - not that I ever had lofty amounts of those. That have been painful and humiliating.

    Looking back, I'm not sure I've come to any lasting harm through these but neither can I say with confidence that I'm the better behaved for them.

    I do think that what seemed like a major issue at the time prevented even worse things befalling me had things continued as they were.

    But that's all speculative and we'll never know for sure. As @Lamb Chopped has said elsewhere, it behoves us all to act in a Christlike fashion in each and every circumstance, whatever the outcome.
  • It's very likely I have a much bigger problem with pride than you do. The reason I ask for God to deal with it (amount, time and means left unspecified) is because I'm aware that this is THE number one issue in my spiritual life, and the one thing most likely to fuck me up permanently if not kept a constant eye on. And better God do that than me, because I've had any number of proofs that I don't know what the hell I'm doing, maybe and especially when I think I do know.
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