This move is probably not just Trump or Musk. 'Public education' has long been a conservative bug bear (for various reasons, including religious fundamentalism and racism).
One trouble with posturing is that it assumes an audience, and I think Trump, akin to the base he has carefully cultivated over the past decade or so, is very narcissistic. He is his own audience, and his audience is him, and they're both wrapped in this circle of mutual gratification where they are all in love with the odor of their own emissions.
And the emissions are so thick right now that it's really hard for them to smell anything else.
And so I think he really does not care about anyone else in the world. And neither do his voters, as they've been trained.
I just tried to engage in a few conversations and started blocking people (not my usual approach) when I realized I was dealing with people who were simply immune to factual information. They just plain couldn't see anything that wasn't already codified for their preexisting worldview.
I keep darkly hoping that some disaster may happen, like Sodom and Gomorrah, or more mercifully, that God will strike them all down from heaven with a blinding light, but I think that's what they call "putting God to the test."
It's really weird. I think Trump is radicalizing me into some kind of fundamentalism.
I just tried to engage in a few conversations and started blocking people (not my usual approach) when I realized I was dealing with people who were simply immune to factual information. They just plain couldn't see anything that wasn't already codified for their preexisting worldview.
I spoke to a Trump supporter recently. This particular person's bugbear was the supposed gay indoctrination that goes on in public schools.
This person's viewpoint was that any mention of gay people was inherently sexual and perverted, and shouldn't be allowed in schools. When I pointed out that some people are gay, that some people who are gay have children, and that those children will talk about their parents just as much as any other child, and that these things are facts that don't alter whatever your opinion of homosexuality is, I got a fairly incoherent rant about how being gay shoudn't be allowed, gay people having children shouldn't be allowed, and so on. They seemed to be of the opinion that if you didn't mention same-sex attraction in schools, then their children would automatically grow up straight.
Look at, for example, Ryan Walters in Oklahoma, and then dial up the paranoia by a factor of several, and you'd get a reasonable picture of this person.
One of my pet favorites is when people say things like "but did you see what he actually said or what was reported in the media?
As if people think they're getting brain waves straight from the source! Or they're personal friends with RFK Jr!
It's a truly strange rhetorical flourish that I see a lot. And it makes me realize how much people really do depend on some kind of "medium" if they want to understand anything about the larger world.
One of my pet favorites is when people say things like "but did you see what he actually said or what was reported in the media?
As if people think they're getting brain waves straight from the source! Or they're personal friends with RFK Jr!
It's a truly strange rhetorical flourish that I see a lot. And it makes me realize how much people really do depend on some kind of "medium" if they want to understand anything about the larger world.
It's not so strange in a world of widespread video recordings and internet access to them. Reading a print account that paraphrases the general meaning is different than watching the video of RFK, Jr. [ testifying before / lying to ] Congress. This is an important distinction in an era when a lot of legacy press will spend a lot of effort sanewashing this administration. There's a big difference between generalizing descriptions like Marco Rubio advocates prison reform and Rubio's actual words"We can send them [ prisoners ] and he [ El Salvador's president Nayib Bukele ] will put them in his jails" or "he's also offered to do the same for dangerous criminals currently in custody and serving their sentences in the United States even though they're U.S. citizens or legal residents."
I am really wondering how much of a market their would be in Palestine, Israel, and the USA, respectively, for the idea that Gaza should become an American territory.
I am really wondering how much of a market their would be in Palestine, Israel, and the USA, respectively, for the idea that Gaza should become an American territory.
I'm unselfishly wishing everyone in the US well and praying even though I know many are praying for Trump's success.
On top of everything I fear the enemies Trump is making and the deliberate weakening of US intelligence will lead to a high risk of terrorist attacks on US soil.
As to why many Trump supporters don't believe the more extreme things Trump says, I have seen some of his supporters online claiming he just says things to 'own the libs' or is just trolling. But who wants a troll for president? He definitely doesn't follow through on everything he says, but he and Musk are carrying out some unhinged and cruel plans and nobody knows exactly what will happen next.
There definitely seems to be the use of some start up strategies- find loopholes in the law or just plunge ahead and hope your company is too established to fail once people, governments and the law abiding companies start challenging you in court.
I am really wondering how much of a market their would be in Palestine, Israel, and the USA, respectively, for the idea that Gaza should become an American territory.
Even the BBC this morning used the word "solution" this morning (as in "is this a solution?"). I'm seriously wondering when Netanyahu and Trump let their true colours be seen by all and say that they're going to implement a final solution to the problem (as they see it) of Palestinians living in their own homes.
The use of the words “final solution” make me shiver.
At any rate, there does seem to be a failure by Trump to understand that compulsory resettlement of millions of people in 1948ish is at the heart of the ongoing emnity and conflict.
I’m sure his proposal as worded is against international law. That’s important enough. But the fact that it ignores or seems unaware that resettlement is at the heart of the conflict shows just how moronic the proposal is.
I am really wondering how much of a market their would be in Palestine, Israel, and the USA, respectively, for the idea that Gaza should become an American territory.
Even the BBC this morning used the word "solution" this morning (as in "is this a solution?").
Shame on the BBC for not calling out 'ethnic cleansing' very clearly and loudly.
I saw the press announcement on the BBC this morning. Netanyahu said he was the best US leader Israel has ever known. His idea is to create a Middle Eastern Riviera apparently. Attracting people from all over the world. The US will own the area and rebuild it. Besides the very valid arguments on here about re settlement there is a smaller but important argument. Saudi relies very heavily on tourism. I can’t see them being happy about Trumps idea.
The use of the words “final solution” make me shiver.
I chose the words deliberately. Though my mental debate about whether to capitalise them (obviously) opted against that ... at the moment. But, I genuinely fear that that's the direction of travel at the moment, with clear support for ethnic cleansing among both some Israeli Zionists and some US Zionists including (sadly) some who profess the Christian faith what's the next step after that?
And there is the historical point that every one of Palestine's neighbour governments that has receiled displaced Palestinians has found them to be a source of trouble.
Besides the very valid arguments on here about re settlement there is a smaller but important argument. Saudi relies very heavily on tourism. I can’t see them being happy about Trumps idea.
Sorry, but I'm not clear how Saudi Arabia having a big tourism industry connects to their opposing Trump's annexationist schemes for the West Bank.
(Overall, I agree his plan is ridiculous, not least because it can't possibly have any support from the major actors in the region.)
And there is the historical point that every one of Palestine's neighbour governments that has receiled displaced Palestinians has found them to be a source of trouble.
Gee, why might people forced to spend decades in refugee camps not be happy with their lot?
Oh. I see Pam Bondi has been confirmed as Attorney General.
During the hearing she confirmed that she would maintain the independence of the DoJ and, in particular, would not allow the FBI to pursue a Trump enemies list. That’s according to the UK Guardian newspaper.
I admit to not having read her exact words but if she didn’t give herself some wriggle room I’d be surprised. I think Trump has now got the DoJ effectively in his pocket.
A serious question - how large is the US military (army, navy, and air force)? Is it large enough to conquer Panama, Greenland (perhaps Canada as well), and also to take over Gaza? Not to mention liberating the UK from the iron hand of the evil Starmer...
Why would she need to leave herself wriggle room? It's not like there are any consequences to lying through her teeth.
I’ve now read, quickly, the transcript and she wriggled. The best example is when she was asked if she thought the 2020 election was rigged and the answer, on more than one occasion, was “Joe Biden is(was) the President of the United States.”
Trying to forcibly move 2 million people against their will, to nations who refuse to support ethnic cleansing by accepting them, is likely to result in combat against members of the population who take up arms rather than be forced from their homes and quite possibly against the nations who vehemently disagree with ethnic cleansing and possibly genocidal acts. Syria and Lebanon are in no state to fight a war against anyone (though in the circumstance of US and Israeli ethnic cleansing of Gaza I'd be surprised if Hezbollah stand by the cease fire agreement with Israel), but Jordan and Egypt have functional militaries and governments, as does Iran.
Trying to forcibly move 2 million people against their will, to nations who refuse to support ethnic cleansing by accepting them, is likely to result in combat against members of the population who take up arms rather than be forced from their homes and quite possibly against the nations who vehemently disagree with ethnic cleansing and possibly genocidal acts. Syria and Lebanon are in no state to fight a war against anyone (though in the circumstance of US and Israeli ethnic cleansing of Gaza I'd be surprised if Hezbollah stand by the cease fire agreement with Israel), but Jordan and Egypt have functional militaries and governments, as does Iran.
This. A frightening enough scenario, without the threats to Panama, Greenland, and Canada.
It really would be *breaking things* on the grand scale...
Trying to forcibly move 2 million people against their will, to nations who refuse to support ethnic cleansing by accepting them, is likely to result in combat against members of the population who take up arms rather than be forced from their homes and quite possibly against the nations who vehemently disagree with ethnic cleansing and possibly genocidal acts. Syria and Lebanon are in no state to fight a war against anyone (though in the circumstance of US and Israeli ethnic cleansing of Gaza I'd be surprised if Hezbollah stand by the cease fire agreement with Israel), but Jordan and Egypt have functional militaries and governments, as does Iran.
This. A frightening enough scenario, without the threats to Panama, Greenland, and Canada.
It really would be *breaking things* on the grand scale...
Just stop it. He's not going anywhere. He's just talking shit for his adoring base with the added bonus that he's doing it publicly as the most powerful man on Earth, showing there's no limit whatsoever to his 'thinking' out loud, which one simply doesn't do in polite society. It's like Nixon & Kissinger's Mutt & Jeff routine. Vaudeville. With nukes. Everyone knows it's bullshit. But is it?!
The threats to Panama and Greenland are more 'real' than to Gaza and Canada, which are complete fantasy. I.e. barely more threatening in reality and in actuality either. If he did take them out (Panama, December 20, 1989 – January 31, 1990, 1 month, 1 week and 4 days last time), what's frightening about it? Disturbing, yes. But frightening? Only if you're in the densely populated barrio of El Chorrillos... I doubt there's a Greenland equivalent. Total population <1/10th% of the UK.
It's signalling to Putin, you play in your little back yard, I can play in mine. And hey, Europe, pay your dues. Or learn Russian.
Welcome to Mafia World. One ideology, dog eat dog.
And there is the historical point that every one of Palestine's neighbour governments that has receiled displaced Palestinians has found them to be a source of trouble.
Gee, why might people forced to spend decades in refugee camps not be happy with their lot?
And a lot of those governments are kinda dictatorial, and Palestinians have a long history now of fighting for their own freedom.
On top of everything I fear the enemies Trump is making and the deliberate weakening of US intelligence will lead to a high risk of terrorist attacks on US soil.
The Central Intelligence Agency on Tuesday became the first major national security agency to offer so-called buyouts to its entire workforce, a CIA spokesperson and two other sources familiar with the offer said, part of President Donald Trump’s broad effort to shrink the federal government and shape it to his agenda.
The offer — which tells federal employees that they can quit their jobs and receive roughly eight months of pay and benefits — had up until Tuesday not been made available to most national security roles in an apparent cognizance of their critical function to the security of the nation.
CIA Director John Ratcliffe personally decided he also wanted the CIA to be involved, one of the sources said.
The spokesperson said that the move is part of Ratcliffe’s efforts to “ensure the CIA workforce is responsive to the Administration’s national security priorities,” adding that is “part of a holistic strategy to infuse the Agency with renewed energy.”
Ratcliffe's MBA technobabble at the end is *chef's kiss*. I'm just surprised he didn't go on about dynamically leveraging the synergies.
As to why many Trump supporters don't believe the more extreme things Trump says, I have seen some of his supporters online claiming he just says things to 'own the libs' or is just trolling. But who wants a troll for president? He definitely doesn't follow through on everything he says, but he and Musk are carrying out some unhinged and cruel plans and nobody knows exactly what will happen next.
A lot of Trump's support comes from sources that don't fit well with various theories of democratic governance. The basic theory is that governments that enact policies or take actions which make their citizens' lives better are re-elected and retained, while those who fail at this task are voted out of office. A sizable number of Trump supporters, however, do not expect him to improve their lives in any way. Their support is based on the idea that Trump will harm their enemies. That he'll punishes transgender people (any non-straight person, really) and immigrants (or any non-white person, really) and feminists (any woman, really) is the sum total of what they expect Trump to deliver. Of course, every so often the leopards also eats their face.
So the Big Orange says he will take over Gaza, clear it of the living inhabitants and redevelop it as Trump Riviera. But how will he get rid of the ghosts?
So the Big Orange says he will take over Gaza, clear it of the living inhabitants and redevelop it as Trump Riviera. But how will he get rid of the ghosts?
So the Big Orange says he will take over Gaza, clear it of the living inhabitants and redevelop it as Trump Riviera. But how will he get rid of the ghosts?
He has various USCCB members in his pocket. I'm sure they'll lend him an exorcist or three.
So the Big Orange says he will take over Gaza, clear it of the living inhabitants and redevelop it as Trump Riviera. But how will he get rid of the ghosts?
Saw a stranger on the internet with "live free or die" on their profile, a red white and blue skull.
And I think there's a certain "toxic male" ideology that says that they'd literally rather die and know that they died on their on terms, without taking help from anyone than live in a state where they were supported.
And that's one faction that will cheerfully watch the social welfare state collapse. And then if the leopards come for them, maybe they figure they'll have earned it and can finally die as they so dearly wished, maybe even in a glorious hail of bullets like something out of a stupid action flick.
I just wish they wouldn't drag the rest of us down with them.
That is all, of course, a bit speculative, though I think I might know some men like that. And often they're rather self-deluded about their own professed independence.
Jeremy Bowen on BBC News perceptively points out that Trump's proposal effectively puts the skids under Phase 2 of the cease-fire agreement (the IDF is reportedly preparing a plan to 'enable' any Palestiians who want to leave Gaza' to do so). When the agreement collapses, Trump's friend Netanyahu will be off the hook, and can resume his war and remain in power. So much for Trump the Peacemaker.
Besides the very valid arguments on here about re settlement there is a smaller but important argument. Saudi relies very heavily on tourism. I can’t see them being happy about Trumps idea.
Sorry, but I'm not clear how Saudi Arabia having a big tourism industry connects to their opposing Trump's annexationist schemes for the West Bank.
(Overall, I agree his plan is ridiculous, not least because it can't possibly have any support from the major actors in the region.)
Saudi sees itself as the big Middle East tourist draw. Over this side of the pond there are a lot of adverts for it. If Trump wants to turn Palestine in to the Middle Eastern Riviera then that will challenge Saudis tourism dominance. As oil becomes less and less of a money maker Saudi is looking to tourism as a replacement over time.
Comments
https://edition.cnn.com/2025/02/04/politics/education-department-trump-executive-order/index.html
This move is probably not just Trump or Musk. 'Public education' has long been a conservative bug bear (for various reasons, including religious fundamentalism and racism).
And the emissions are so thick right now that it's really hard for them to smell anything else.
And so I think he really does not care about anyone else in the world. And neither do his voters, as they've been trained.
I just tried to engage in a few conversations and started blocking people (not my usual approach) when I realized I was dealing with people who were simply immune to factual information. They just plain couldn't see anything that wasn't already codified for their preexisting worldview.
I keep darkly hoping that some disaster may happen, like Sodom and Gomorrah, or more mercifully, that God will strike them all down from heaven with a blinding light, but I think that's what they call "putting God to the test."
It's really weird. I think Trump is radicalizing me into some kind of fundamentalism.
I spoke to a Trump supporter recently. This particular person's bugbear was the supposed gay indoctrination that goes on in public schools.
This person's viewpoint was that any mention of gay people was inherently sexual and perverted, and shouldn't be allowed in schools. When I pointed out that some people are gay, that some people who are gay have children, and that those children will talk about their parents just as much as any other child, and that these things are facts that don't alter whatever your opinion of homosexuality is, I got a fairly incoherent rant about how being gay shoudn't be allowed, gay people having children shouldn't be allowed, and so on. They seemed to be of the opinion that if you didn't mention same-sex attraction in schools, then their children would automatically grow up straight.
Look at, for example, Ryan Walters in Oklahoma, and then dial up the paranoia by a factor of several, and you'd get a reasonable picture of this person.
As if people think they're getting brain waves straight from the source! Or they're personal friends with RFK Jr!
It's a truly strange rhetorical flourish that I see a lot. And it makes me realize how much people really do depend on some kind of "medium" if they want to understand anything about the larger world.
No, but @Leorning Cniht was using "reasonable" in the sense of "accurate".
It's not so strange in a world of widespread video recordings and internet access to them. Reading a print account that paraphrases the general meaning is different than watching the video of RFK, Jr. [ testifying before / lying to ] Congress. This is an important distinction in an era when a lot of legacy press will spend a lot of effort sanewashing this administration. There's a big difference between generalizing descriptions like Marco Rubio advocates prison reform and Rubio's actual words "We can send them [ prisoners ] and he [ El Salvador's president Nayib Bukele ] will put them in his jails" or "he's also offered to do the same for dangerous criminals currently in custody and serving their sentences in the United States even though they're U.S. citizens or legal residents."
In Israel, zilch. Israel wants the whole thing.
On top of everything I fear the enemies Trump is making and the deliberate weakening of US intelligence will lead to a high risk of terrorist attacks on US soil.
As to why many Trump supporters don't believe the more extreme things Trump says, I have seen some of his supporters online claiming he just says things to 'own the libs' or is just trolling. But who wants a troll for president? He definitely doesn't follow through on everything he says, but he and Musk are carrying out some unhinged and cruel plans and nobody knows exactly what will happen next.
There definitely seems to be the use of some start up strategies- find loopholes in the law or just plunge ahead and hope your company is too established to fail once people, governments and the law abiding companies start challenging you in court.
At any rate, there does seem to be a failure by Trump to understand that compulsory resettlement of millions of people in 1948ish is at the heart of the ongoing emnity and conflict.
I’m sure his proposal as worded is against international law. That’s important enough. But the fact that it ignores or seems unaware that resettlement is at the heart of the conflict shows just how moronic the proposal is.
Shame on the BBC for not calling out 'ethnic cleansing' very clearly and loudly.
Sorry, but I'm not clear how Saudi Arabia having a big tourism industry connects to their opposing Trump's annexationist schemes for the West Bank.
(Overall, I agree his plan is ridiculous, not least because it can't possibly have any support from the major actors in the region.)
Gee, why might people forced to spend decades in refugee camps not be happy with their lot?
During the hearing she confirmed that she would maintain the independence of the DoJ and, in particular, would not allow the FBI to pursue a Trump enemies list. That’s according to the UK Guardian newspaper.
I admit to not having read her exact words but if she didn’t give herself some wriggle room I’d be surprised. I think Trump has now got the DoJ effectively in his pocket.
But we’ll see …..
I’ve now read, quickly, the transcript and she wriggled. The best example is when she was asked if she thought the 2020 election was rigged and the answer, on more than one occasion, was “Joe Biden is(was) the President of the United States.”
Fighting China in the Pacific and Russia in Europe at the same time.
This. A frightening enough scenario, without the threats to Panama, Greenland, and Canada.
It really would be *breaking things* on the grand scale...
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/feb/05/donald-trump-gaza-plan-global-stability-us-soldiers
Just stop it. He's not going anywhere. He's just talking shit for his adoring base with the added bonus that he's doing it publicly as the most powerful man on Earth, showing there's no limit whatsoever to his 'thinking' out loud, which one simply doesn't do in polite society. It's like Nixon & Kissinger's Mutt & Jeff routine. Vaudeville. With nukes. Everyone knows it's bullshit. But is it?!
The threats to Panama and Greenland are more 'real' than to Gaza and Canada, which are complete fantasy. I.e. barely more threatening in reality and in actuality either. If he did take them out (Panama, December 20, 1989 – January 31, 1990, 1 month, 1 week and 4 days last time), what's frightening about it? Disturbing, yes. But frightening? Only if you're in the densely populated barrio of El Chorrillos... I doubt there's a Greenland equivalent. Total population <1/10th% of the UK.
It's signalling to Putin, you play in your little back yard, I can play in mine. And hey, Europe, pay your dues. Or learn Russian.
Welcome to Mafia World. One ideology, dog eat dog.
And a lot of those governments are kinda dictatorial, and Palestinians have a long history now of fighting for their own freedom.
The monsters!
Speaking of which:
Ratcliffe's MBA technobabble at the end is *chef's kiss*. I'm just surprised he didn't go on about dynamically leveraging the synergies.
A lot of Trump's support comes from sources that don't fit well with various theories of democratic governance. The basic theory is that governments that enact policies or take actions which make their citizens' lives better are re-elected and retained, while those who fail at this task are voted out of office. A sizable number of Trump supporters, however, do not expect him to improve their lives in any way. Their support is based on the idea that Trump will harm their enemies. That he'll punishes transgender people (any non-straight person, really) and immigrants (or any non-white person, really) and feminists (any woman, really) is the sum total of what they expect Trump to deliver. Of course, every so often the leopards also eats their face.
However, as @Martin54 so eloquently points out, he's unlikely to actually go anywhere. It's all piss and wind...
Hand it over to Israel.
He has various USCCB members in his pocket. I'm sure they'll lend him an exorcist or three.
Hand it over or sell it?
And yet, even that is immensely disturbing in itself.
And I think there's a certain "toxic male" ideology that says that they'd literally rather die and know that they died on their on terms, without taking help from anyone than live in a state where they were supported.
And that's one faction that will cheerfully watch the social welfare state collapse. And then if the leopards come for them, maybe they figure they'll have earned it and can finally die as they so dearly wished, maybe even in a glorious hail of bullets like something out of a stupid action flick.
I just wish they wouldn't drag the rest of us down with them.
That is all, of course, a bit speculative, though I think I might know some men like that. And often they're rather self-deluded about their own professed independence.
Saudi sees itself as the big Middle East tourist draw. Over this side of the pond there are a lot of adverts for it. If Trump wants to turn Palestine in to the Middle Eastern Riviera then that will challenge Saudis tourism dominance. As oil becomes less and less of a money maker Saudi is looking to tourism as a replacement over time.