March Book Discussion - "Orbital" by Samantha Harvey
March's book is Orbital by Samantha Harvey - the 2024 Booker Prize winner.
Over the course of 24 hours, six astronauts orbit the earth 16 times and contemplate the earth, humanity and the meaning of life.
I was given my copy by a friend who loved it and has read it twice. I've read it once, am not at all sure what I think of it and look forward to the reread and to hearing how other people find it.
Over the course of 24 hours, six astronauts orbit the earth 16 times and contemplate the earth, humanity and the meaning of life.
I was given my copy by a friend who loved it and has read it twice. I've read it once, am not at all sure what I think of it and look forward to the reread and to hearing how other people find it.
Comments
Sorry!
As in my youth I was someone interested in space , like my uncle (who was a test pilot by profession, and he tried to get on the NASA program), so the subject looked worth reading with the group. Another advantage for me the book is short, but as its wide publicity as prize winner, all 20 copies in our city library is currently out. But fortunately I got a copy from my wide-reading daughter. So now even my slow reading has read it, so I look forward to the discussion. Overall I agree with Nenya's comment above.
I bought an actual real copy of the book so will look forward to the discussion. I read the online sample first, that covers the first 14 pages and am wondering how it becomes controversial or polarising based on the beginning. I will soon find out.
Was this your first time of reading or a reread?
Did you enjoy the book?
The book covers a period of 24 hours. Were you made very aware of this during the course of the narrative? Did it feel like a longer period of time?
Were there specific characters or situations you related to?
I'm indebted to the website Bookclubs.com for the following interesting question:
In a review for The New Yorker, James Wood writes that ‘Orbital is the strangest and most magical of projects, not least because it’s barely what most people would call a novel but performs the kind of task that only a novel could dare. It’s barely a novel because it barely tells a plotted set of human stories, and the stories it does tell barely interact with one another.’ Do you agree Orbital is ‘barely a novel’? Discuss the absence of conventional plot and how this affects the reading experience. And if it’s not really a novel, what is it?
If there are any other questions on that page that you find interesting, please use them as a springboard for another question.
Any other matters you'd like to discuss about the book?
Was this your first time of reading or a reread?
A reread, which I actually still haven't finished and am struggling with. I was given the book for my birthday in December and read it then. The friend who gave it to me loved it and had read it twice.
Did you enjoy the book?
I find that a hard question to answer, particularly on this reread as I'm realising quite how much of it I'd forgotten, and am left wondering whether that's because there's actually not much to remember! I had, for example, remembered about the death of Chie's mother. I had completely forgotten about Pietro's relationship with the Philippine fisherman. I was fascinated to learn that the boundary line between day and night is called the Terminator... but had completely forgotten that when I came to reread.
The book covers a period of 24 hours. Were you made very aware of this during the course of the narrative? Did it feel like a longer period of time?
I felt it was made clear from the original premise of the book, and the chapter headings, but reading it made it feel like much longer - to me at least. As I originally commented on the other book thread when we were talking about books to include in this year's list, it's a short read but not necessarily a quick one. On this reread I'm sorry to say I'm finding myself bored by it...
Were there specific characters or situations you related to?
I was sad for Chie - my own mother died over 12 years ago and I miss her every day.
I'm indebted to the website Bookclubs.com for the following interesting question:
In a review for The New Yorker, James Wood writes that ‘Orbital is the strangest and most magical of projects, not least because it’s barely what most people would call a novel but performs the kind of task that only a novel could dare. It’s barely a novel because it barely tells a plotted set of human stories, and the stories it does tell barely interact with one another.’ Do you agree Orbital is ‘barely a novel’? Discuss the absence of conventional plot and how this affects the reading experience. And if it’s not really a novel, what is it?
I agree it's barely a novel. It's more like prose written poetically. I wonder whether the author should turn her hand to poetry. Maybe the lack of plot contributes to my boredom. I think I'd describe it as a lyrical piece of writing; written in the present tense, which is always a big challenge for me. I wouldn't describe it as "magical".
Any other matters you'd like to discuss about the book?
Well, some of the things that have already been raised here. Are astronauts the sort of people who really think like that...?
One of the things it brought home to me is how space travel affects the human body; another was how tedious and confining it must be orbiting the earth like that...
I didn't re-read it for this month's book club as I read it not that long ago for another book group. I had no desire to re-read it again so soon.
Did you enjoy the book?
There were bits I did enjoy. The writing was beautiful and I liked the descriptions. However I do like a story or at least some character development and couldn't really find that.
The book covers a period of 24 hours. Were you made very aware of this during the course of the narrative? Did it feel like a longer period of time?
It certainly felt longer, but I think I was vaguely aware of it. I read it on my Kindle. The person from my other book group who'd read the book spent a long time looking at the charts of their orbit, something that isn't very easy to do on a Kindle. If I'd done that I might have been more aware of the time frame.
Were there specific characters or situations you related to?
The death of Chie's mother and her not being and her memories of her mother were something I could relate to. Also the family in the Philippines, I was glad we found out they were relatively OK. Seeing the storm develop from a birds-eye view was interesting.
In a review for The New Yorker, James Wood writes that ‘Orbital is the strangest and most magical of projects, not least because it’s barely what most people would call a novel but performs the kind of task that only a novel could dare. It’s barely a novel because it barely tells a plotted set of human stories, and the stories it does tell barely interact with one another.’ Do you agree Orbital is ‘barely a novel’? Discuss the absence of conventional plot and how this affects the reading experience. And if it’s not really a novel, what is it?
I think it is more of a long prose poem. My discussion with my other book group was interesting. We usually don't spend that much time discussing the actual book, but this time we did. We met when we were members of a writing group and I think we all found the writing and the emotions it engendered interesting, some of us more than others. One of our members writes very similar prose poems so I could see how the book interested her, me not so much.
Having said all that I'm glad I read it. I know very little about space travel but I can imagine that astronauts probably don't think in the ways described , or not very many of them do. In lots of ways the characters were almost different facets of the same person. Maybe it was more Harvey's reflections on what she would feel if in space.
I think the scenes set on Earth may have worked better and felt more grounded than those on the space station, it is true. At the same time I don't think you could do the scenes on Earth in the same way without the space station.
I hadn't registered before I looked her up that she's the author who wrote The Western Wind, which was also interesting and slightly at an angle to normal novelistic storytelling.
Was this your first time of reading or a reread?
This was my first time reading 'Orbital'.
Did you enjoy the book?
I enjoyed the book in small bites and took the month to read it (in between reading other books) despite it being short. This may be due to my taste synesthesia where I taste certain words, shapes, letters etc. but I liken it to eating buttered or margarined toast. Sometimes it was a bit bland, but others comforting and tasty with the bits I found more interesting tasting of toast with margarine and Vegemite. Although I enjoyed some of the descriptions, sometimes I found them boring and preferred the thoughts and experiences of the astronauts and cosmonauts.
The book covers a period of 24 hours. Were you made very aware of this during the course of the narrative? Did it feel like a longer period of time?
I forgot it was set over 24 hours. It seemed much longer due to the number of orbits and also all the flashbacks to past events in the space travellers' lives. I think also because there was the side story of the astronauts who were travelling to the moon on the same day and their story seemed to take place over a number of days too.
Were there specific characters or situations you related to?
I related to Nell's story of the Challenger disaster, even though it inspired her to become an astronaut and made me immediately change my goal of being an astronaut. (Though sadly I found Reagan era America pretty arrogant and considered being a Cosmonaut instead, since that was the only other option at the time and I didn't understand world politics or see much of Soviet political views of the West on T.V. Am thankful I don't want to travel in space given the politicians in both countries today).
I was almost 7, the same age Nell was, when the disaster happened, but already was interested in the reality of space flight and dreamed of going into space. I didn't realise space travel was dangerous and assumed scientists and engineers etc. made perfectly safe spaceships, so it the disaster was a real shock for me and impacted my views. Reading the end of the book just as the group of astronauts was returning to Earth from the ISS (International Space Station) was an interesting contrast. I was relieved when they were safely back on Earth, given all that is going on with NASA, Space X and US politics at the moment.
In a review for The New Yorker, James Wood writes that ‘Orbital is the strangest and most magical of projects, not least because it’s barely what most people would call a novel but performs the kind of task that only a novel could dare. It’s barely a novel because it barely tells a plotted set of human stories, and the stories it does tell barely interact with one another.’ Do you agree Orbital is ‘barely a novel’? Discuss the absence of conventional plot and how this affects the reading experience. And if it’s not really a novel, what is it?
I don't know how I would classify the book. It is obviously fictional and may have become a standard novel if it continued and the ominous crack in the space station caused problems for the occupants that needed solving. Sometimes it seemed more of a series of essays rather than a novel. I agree that some of the characters blended together in my mind and had similar thoughts and philosophies and I struggled to differentiate the two cosmonauts from each other.
Any other matters you'd like to discuss about the book?[/quote]
Even though it wasn't central to the book, I found the discussion of Christianity interesting and though Samantha Harvey didn't seem to be a Christian, she didn't seem anti-religion so I looked up her opinions on religion. I was interested to find that when interviewed she said the book that most challenged her world view as a non-Christian with no formal faith was 'Miracles' by C. S. Lewis. Scroll down to see the full quote on the Booker Prize website https://thebookerprizes.com/the-booker-library/features/the-2024-shortlistees-on-the-book-that-challenged-their-worldview
This then reminded me of the space series by C. S. Lewis, 'The Space Trilogy' also known as 'The Ransome Trilogy' or 'The Cosmic Trilogy'. Books written before the advent of space travel. I have read at least the first two quite a number of years ago, but I don't think I read the third book in the series. Like the Narnia series each book combines fantasy with Biblical history and mythology. They might be interesting reads for future discussions.
That's also interesting. I don't feel inclined to read another by her any time soon, unfortunately. I'm surprised at how much I've struggled with the reread and I've probably tried to read it again too soon. I relate to Mili's comment about how it seems a bit bland and much as I like buttered toast I don't want too much of it.
In the dream the moon was being mined and my potential boyfriend was possibly going to move there and the relationship suddenly seemed more attractive with the possibility of space travel 😄. My heart leapt at the opportunity to go to the moon. I'm happily single now and not looking to date so maybe my mind was exploring past dreams and life paths that didn't eventuate.
Yes. And as several others found, Library copies in my region are all in use, which presumably implies there is much to discuss. I got a borrowed copy from my daughter, who is a big reader.
Did you enjoy the book?
So, so. But I did manage to read it right through, especially as the topic of working in spaceis of interest to me.
The book covers a period of 24 hours. Were you made very aware of this during the course of the narrative? Did it feel like a longer period of time?
Right near the front page in the version I read there was a map showing the time frame of one days orbits. That was clear enough, and I took it as the astronauts would be doing many more orbitals. (The reference to the mice getting adjusted to ‘walk’ in space was clearly stated to take the first week, and the fact that the book made no talking of the take up or down also implied there would many more orbits of this crew.
.
Were there specific characters or situations you related to?
As a long-term residence in a substantial tropical island with often cyclones, I too related to one of the crew who friends who lived in such circumstances.
As a (now retired) scientist myself, I was interested in the various experiments they werer working on.
Do you agree Orbital is ‘barely a novel’? Discuss the absence of conventional plot and how this affects the reading experience. And if it’s not really a novel, what is it?
It’s certainly not much of the type of story which straight on from one time to another , as with most thrillers. Though, it’s not the main feature of the book, there is a time sequence of some events, such as what changes on the Earth (e.g. that cyclone) or the pair that goes on a spacewalk to the outside of the ship. Rather the book goes most markedly from one crew member to another and its experience. That does not make it unreadable, but I’m not an academic that labels such books. In structurer it’s more like “Girl, Woman, Other” by Bernadino Evaristo, which I think our group read some time ago.
Any other matters you'd like to discuss about the book?
Yes, the prose style.
Style is heavy on adjectives and purple prose, especially in the first few chapters. Style is so richly adjectival and frequent in this to become almost unencouraging and unreadable, but becomes more workable though still bursts of adjectives galor splatter in some later chapters, but and some good (more isolated) and phrasing as the book goes on !This density reminds me of some advanced mathematics textbooks or research papers that requires to read very slowly, to get make sense. For example in the very first chapter, which nearly nearly made me put the book away unread:
“Sometimes they dream the same dreams – of fractals and blue spheres and familiar faces engulfed in dark, and of the bright energetic black of space that slams their sentence”.
(I have read somewhere that the author put book aside after a few words before he found he needed to get more bare facts to do the rest of the book. I suspect the first one or two chapters ) On some chapters (e.g. OB13 about ‘history’ of Earth) put in long single sentences – though the descriptions are good but I noticed the spread, unlike I did in one earlier SOF which had an occasional sentence which reached of several pages [“Austerlitz” by W.G. Sebald].
Did you enjoy the book?
Yes I did. While I agree the prose is dense and adjectivally (over)rich in places, I did not find that off-putting. The link between the humans and the planet earth was portrayed as profound; I found this moving, though I wonder whether astronauts really see it that way. RockyRoger suggests not, and he may be right about many; I don’t know any astronauts, and anyway I assume they don’t all think the same way. On the other hand people who have been in space have expressed these reactions of awe, and I know of astrophysicists who are in wonder at the depths they observe. The six on the spacecraft know that they are lab rats, so that data on their bodies’ reactions to space can be collected and analysed for the benefit of other space explorers. But in spite of all this they are enchanted by the planet they watch. They see the lights of every city in Europe, and the relative darkness of Africa. They see the ravages of mining and industry, they watch a hurricane form. The descriptions of space life are fascinating – I hadn’t realised they ‘hung’ to sleep – and the complex dance of avoidance and collegiality necessary for everyone to keep sane and moderately happy.
The book covers a period of 24 hours. Were you made very aware of this during the course of the narrative? Did it feel like a longer period of time?
Actually, I was very aware that this was all on one day and that the orbits were quick (this is Puck putting a girdle round the earth in forty minutes (or thereabouts) – over and over again). And over the day they see just about everywhere on earth and the planet rotates under them.
Were there specific characters or situations you related to?
I related to Chie’s mother’s death; my own mother had a health crisis when I was on the other side of the world and I had a mad dash back to England. Fortunately I was in time to see her, but can imagine how it would be to miss that. The description of the spacewalk Nell and Pietro did was awe-inspiring and scary.
I'm indebted to the website Bookclubs.com for the following interesting question:
In a review for The New Yorker, James Wood writes that ‘Orbital is the strangest and most magical of projects, not least because it’s barely what most people would call a novel but performs the kind of task that only a novel could dare. Discuss the absence of conventional plot and how this affects the reading experience. And if it’s not really a novel, what is it?
I agree with others that it’s closest to a prose poem. It doesn’t have much plot – but that’s not its point. On the other hand it’s not a scientific account of the journey, or a memoir, or even that new category ‘creative non-fiction’. At least I don’t think so – but perhaps it’s a new form of creative non-fiction? So I guess ‘novel’ is the nearest description.
It was might first read of it.
Did you enjoy the book?
I am still struggling with my answer to that question. The parts that had plots and dealt with stories about the characters lives, I liked best. The very purple prose and philosophizing, I liked less. I was surprised it won a best book award. I do not want to read the competition.
The book covers a period of 24 hours. Were you made very aware of this during the course of the narrative? Did it feel like a longer period of time?
It felt like a long period of time because I read it over several days and it kept coming back to the storm's progression. I think if I read it in one sitting, I would have got a better feel for the 24 hour time period.
Were there specific characters or situations you related to?
Chie and the death of her mother I probably felt closest to. My mother died during Covid lockdown and I did not see her during her last days.
I'm indebted to the website Bookclubs.com for the following interesting question:
In a review for The New Yorker, James Wood writes that ‘Orbital is the strangest and most magical of projects, not least because it’s barely what most people would call a novel but performs the kind of task that only a novel could dare. It’s barely a novel because it barely tells a plotted set of human stories, and the stories it does tell barely interact with one another.’ Do you agree Orbital is ‘barely a novel’? Discuss the absence of conventional plot and how this affects the reading experience. And if it’s not really a novel, what is it?
A serious of reflections with novel like sections interposed?
First time of reading.
Did you enjoy the book?
Yes, it is slight but I enjoyed learning about life on the space station and the people there. I loved the descriptions of earth as they passed over it.
The book covers a period of 24 hours. Were you made very aware of this during the course of the narrative? Did it feel like a longer period of time?
I actually hadn’t twigged this till I read your question. As I was still reading the book I realised that of course it described a day’s activities. It was particularly clear once I looked at the chart of orbits at the start.
Were there specific characters or situations you related to?
How one character was inspired by the Challenger mission. I was never inspired in the same way but was extremely moved by the tragedy at the time. I have Christa McAuliffe’s autobiography and was fascinated by the training she undertook and the tasks she had planned to carry out.
I'm indebted to the website Bookclubs.com for the following interesting question:
In a review for The New Yorker, James Wood writes that ‘Orbital is the strangest and most magical of projects, not least because it’s barely what most people would call a novel but performs the kind of task that only a novel could dare. It’s barely a novel because it barely tells a plotted set of human stories, and the stories it does tell barely interact with one another.’ Do you agree Orbital is ‘barely a novel’? Discuss the absence of conventional plot and how this affects the reading experience. And if it’s not really a novel, what is it?
It’s an artistic snapshot of an extraordinary experience that few people undergo.
Any other matters you'd like to discuss about the book?
The descriptions are so vivid and I believe their authenticity. I wondered throughout what research the author had done to be able to inhabit the situation in such a way.
Mr Bee commented that he liked the jacket for its feel! His fingertips are smooth due to chemo treatment and he appreciated that the cover wasn’t slippery.
Thank you for all the responses. I'm actually still in the process of my reread and trying to get as much out of it I can. I did smile (very wryly) at the on board "wars" of the use of the toilets between the Russian Space Agency and the other nations, and how they're flagrantly disregarded by the crew. "If we have any single thing in common it's our acceptance of belonging nowhere and everywhere... What does a toilet have to do with anything?... We are one... We can't be divided, this is the truth. We won't be because we can't be."
I'm fascinated by the mindset of those (some of them here) to whom space travel seems appealing. It's always sounded completely terrifying to me, and even more so after reading this.
But I wanted to share one thing that really strikes me about the book, which others may have talked about too, or it may just be more influenced by my own perspective on life, I don't know. It seems not to really be about space, but rather to be using space as a way to illustrate disconnection in society, a sense of the loss of societal structures that give people a sense of groundedness. A look beyond these, a sense of the vastness of life in which it can be easy to get lost, and particularly losing a sense of time, along with the realisation of how artificial a structure time is. Which I think is more and more of a thing in today's society, and particularly after Covid, where one's usual societal structures and boundaries were broken down, and a sense of time got broken down.
So when I see these characters having to have certain routines to keep them grounded in time, and to keep their bodies strong, this seems to me a more extreme version of everyday life on earth. And the sense of life being a mix of the two extremes of the very mundane tiny things and the vast wonder of the universe seems to me how I experience life. So it seems to me to be using the extreme, unfamiliar to most of us, setting of travelling through space to express in a new way something we all increasingly experience. Or maybe we don't, maybe it's just me, I don't know, but this is how I am reading this book.
First time. I had heard of it, as it won the Booker Prize, but I hadn't intended to read it, as I didn't feel interested in astronauts. But since I came onto Ship of Fools yesterday and saw it was the book club read, I looked it up and saw it was very short, so I bought it to read on my Kindle.
Did you enjoy the book?
I don't know if enjoy is the right word. I found it interesting, and surprising, because it felt it was not really about space, and I could relate to it a lot.
The book covers a period of 24 hours. Were you made very aware of this during the course of the narrative? Did it feel like a longer period of time?
I think what I was made very aware of was that earthly notions of time don't really apply to these astronauts. They don't have the same markers. They are spinning round the earth many times in 24 hours. They don't have the same dark and light, they don't have external structure, they are in a little capsule hurtling round space, their sleep is odd and disrupted, they can't lie down. It didn't feel like a longer period or time or a shorter period of time because it didn't feel like time. I did think about how James Joyce's Ulysses is also a 24 hour period and much longer, and also very much inside the minds of the characters.
Were there specific characters or situations you related to?
Yes, a lot of it. The sense of being separate from the world, not having the usual sense of external structure, life being many moments, not having a consistent sense of time, switching between memories and present, the sense of life either being incredibly mundane or incredibly awe-inspiring, the sense of needing to do things to take care of your body, along with the fact that over time the body deteriorates anyway - it's just all sped up for these astronauts. When I was reading it, it felt like it was representing how I experience the world in many ways.
In a review for The New Yorker, James Wood writes that ‘Orbital is the strangest and most magical of projects, not least because it’s barely what most people would call a novel but performs the kind of task that only a novel could dare. It’s barely a novel because it barely tells a plotted set of human stories, and the stories it does tell barely interact with one another.’ Do you agree Orbital is ‘barely a novel’? Discuss the absence of conventional plot and how this affects the reading experience. And if it’s not really a novel, what is it?
No, I don't agree it is barely a novel, because lots of novels are like this, attempting to show life experience in an alternative way. It is a slice of life. Many novels are a slice of life. It is representing the consciousness of these characters in space. I'd say there is in fact more plot than one would expect for the average day in space - one character's mother dies, and they witness a typhoon.
It's stream of consciousness, the inner lives - present consciousness and memories - of different characters, who are brought together because they're in a spacecraft together, so of course that is the only way their stories interact. I do agree it lacks the kind of conventional plot that is most common in popular novels, but there are so many experimental novels, so many novels which are mainly the inner world of a character or several characters, that the structure of this novel doesn't feel out of place among novels. Perhaps I am biased by the fact that I mostly read more stream of consciousness stuff and prefer inner world to action.
Any other matters you'd like to discuss about the book?
I identified with Nell's husband when he says he needs his outer life to be simple and stable because his inner life is too complicated, feeling too much at once. So he couldn't live Nell's life, in space. Whereas Nell can simplify her inner life, so her outer life can be complex, limitless and ambitious. I wonder if the author also has the same perspective as Nell's husband, and is maybe using space in this novel as an external way of representing this kind of inner complexity.
James Wood's comment is very interesting, and of course many readers who expect a conventional novel with a conventional plot will be disappointed. I am interested in fiction that pushes the boundaries of the genre, and so I loved it. As with many experimental things, I think if readers are told beforehand not to expect the conventional plot/stakes/climax/resolution etc type of novel, they'll enjoy it more.
I'm delighted that this sort of fiction, barely classifiable as a 'novel' but clearly not anything else because of all the fictional elements, has been so successful and even won the Booker.
Which of the two books, Dear Thief and Orbital , did you prefer?