I was teasing about the 'outrage' thing of course.
In Orthodoxy we don't go in for musical accompaniment, even though that is mentioned in the Psalms and elsewhere in scripture of course.
Some parishes have a reasonable choir. Others rely on a single cantor.
Our hymnody can be uplifting. It can also be execrable.
My question though - and joking aside I'm by no means attempting to legislate what other churches do - is how prevalent is the use of pre-recorded backing tracks?
It's only something I've come across twice to my recollection.
Given how many Shipmates have mentioned it on the Coffee thread then I assume it must be more prevalent than I supposed and across a range of churches and denominations.
I can imagine it happening in some Anglican and 'Free Church' settings, but how about the RCs?
Is it something we might encounter in the RCC?
I'm not trying to make or score any points. Just curious.
I think the main problem is that it is "insensitive" and cannot help if the congfregation is singing too slowly or quickly. It is also, by its nature, "inhuman".
Having said that, most contemporary dance is performed to recorded music or soundscapes, so is some classical ballet (although that definitely loses out).
Recorded music is not allowed during services in the RCC.
Interesting.
So how do RC churches manage the kind of issues that @Arethosemyfeet describes?
No organist or musicians in the congregation.
Those RC services I've attended have had a pianist or organist, but I have attended one which had some very moving acapella chant in English and Latin by people who knew what they were doing.
It may be disallowed but it does happen on the ground sometimes, as Alan indicated.
I was very surprised when I learned some years ago that an RC church in my city used recording backing tracks for the hymns, especially as it’s an Opus Dei parish. Not what I would have expected from them liturgically, but that probably says more about my preconceptions than anything else.
'They have killed your prophets and torn down your altars. And now they are introducing recorded music even in Opus Dei parishes ...'
Are we Orthodox the only ones left? 🤔 😉
Once Rome falls, what chance is there for the rest of us?
I'll get me coat ...
It would be interesting to see how recorded chant might work in an Orthodox parish which didn't have a choir. The mischievous part of me wonders whether it would make that much difference in practical terms as in most parishes the choir do all of the singing.
But I can't see that happening any time soon.
There's been a clampdown on clergy and readers using electronic devices for liturgical texts on the grounds that it's easier to miss words out on screen.
So I'd imagine that similar objections being raised against the use of recorded chant.
Besides, they didn't have recorded chant in Hagia Sophia or 19th century Russia ...
I think the main problem is that it is "insensitive" and cannot help if the congfregation is singing too slowly or quickly. It is also, by its nature, "inhuman".
Unless as I said on the other thread you’ve got a musical box like ours which is hymn tunes where you can choose how much welly you want from the organ. That has to be done in advance, but during the singing the operator can adjust the speed up and down to suit the congregation (or jolly them along). It can be very much down to the artistry of the operator with the buttons.
Not to the level of an actual organist, obviously, but it’s not just pressing play and stop either,
Looks like the other thread on recorded music is dealing with this issue now.
Given the lock down conditions then needs must ...
I presume the practice has continued post-lockdown because of a dearth of organists or musicians.
Yes, and the continuing need to livestream to those who are housebound.
We could sing unaccompanied (and use our conference mic to capture it for the stream, but it only takes me coming down with a cold for that to fall flat too.
A few years ago my church, which was down to six on a good Sunday and it wasn't unusual for me to get there prepared to preach and there was only the organist to hear me, decided to call it a day and closed. I found myself at the local Methodist church, surprised by no organ and recorded music (though a much larger congregation). Now I'm working through the process of training to be a local preacher I get to work my way around the whole circuit and all the churches have facilities to use recorded music, though some have organists they may not always be available. Preachers have access to a library, words of all the hymns in the book for inclusion in the PowerPoint and tunes for them all (with, usually, a choice of piano or organ sound). These tunes are simply added to the PowerPoint and played from a laptop through whatever sound system a church has, without anyone in any particular church "doing the sound". I've not yet adjusted the tempo of the tunes as supplied, though a small adjustment would be simple enough, because apart from my own congregation I don't have the knowledge of the other churches in the circuit to know what tempo would be appropriate.
Recorded music is not allowed during services in the RCC.
Interesting.
So how do RC churches manage the kind of issues that @Arethosemyfeet describes?
No organist or musicians in the congregation.
Those RC services I've attended have had a pianist or organist, but I have attended one which had some very moving acapella chant in English and Latin by people who knew what they were doing.
They muddle through, I guess. as a regular organist in a parish I don't often get to travel around other places. However in our area I don't know of any RC churches without someone - ranging from a good organist/pianist to a recorder player. Most seem to have a guitarist (ageing!) And plenty of priests are happy to lead from the front.
It would be interesting to see how recorded chant might work in an Orthodox parish which didn't have a choir. The mischievous part of me wonders whether it would make that much difference in practical terms as in most parishes the choir do all of the singing.
But I can't see that happening any time soon.
I heard a report around 40 or 50 years ago of a weekday Divine Liturgy in a Greek Orthodox Church, where no cantor was present. The priest sang most of the cantor's part as well as his own, but when it came to the Cherubic Hymn, where he has a long prayer to read while the cantor is singing, he then switched on a cassetee recorder, using a recording of some very highly competent Byzantine choir.
I don't know what would happen in our parish if the choir didn't turn up. We've managed with two people before now.
They sometimes call on me to intone some of the readings but our priest booted me out of the choir, which was fair enough as I wasn't very good at it.
I was at a midweek communion once when it didn't look as if the choir would arrive and it would be the sub-deacon and myself muddling through but to my intense relief two of them arrived in time.
RCs will correct me if I'm wrong, but AFAIK singing is not compulsory at any RC Mass, apart from the Gospel Acclamation. I expect the priest has to make a go of that, if necessary!
There is no singing mandatory at RC Mass and often during the week there is no singing at all. Otherwise hymns may be sung a cappella by the faithful.
Nowadays most Sunday Masses in the UK do have musical accompaniment, very often in the form of hymns.
Often during the week I go to the local Jesuit church where there is no hymn singing but priest and people will sing the Kyrie,Sanctus and Agnus Dei.
On the other hand it is not uncommon if I go to a weekday Mass for a local school one of the teachers will play a recording of the music for the hymns which the children sing.
RCs will correct me if I'm wrong, but AFAIK singing is not compulsory at any RC Mass, apart from the Gospel Acclamation. I expect the priest has to make a go of that, if necessary!
I think that'd fly in the face of "full, conscious, and active participation" from Vatican II, but I am not RC (though I do play for three RC masses each week).
We do not use 'canned' music at my RC parish, though a couple of times a year we listen to a pre-recorded message from the Bishop. Very occasionally we will have some very contemplative piped-in music before Mass, for people who've gathered very early to pray, but there is always a long interval of silence before Mass begins.
IME, the case where this issue crops up the most is for weddings and funerals. I very recently had a bride request that Keane's "Someplace only we know" be incorporated into her ceremony, even though our wedding customary very clearly states that recorded music cannot be used, and that all wedding music be decidedly sacred. For a while back when it was a new country song, a number of bereaved families requested the playing of "I can only imagine," but that was gently dissuaded. A little over a year ago, my daughter who's a cantor at a large RC parish up north was approached just before a funeral was to begin with a request for "Don't cry for me, Argentina." When she shared that music wasn't available for the organist and she to use, the gentleman making the request produced a CD and tried to hand it to her with the request that it be played instead. At that point the organist intervened.
The more that some church music has come to resemble/imitate/morph into or with current popular music, I think the easier it is for people in those communities to rationalize having a recording used for a service, even if it isn't within their own community/place. Big-box-praise-band-'worship' team-evangelical churches use all kinds of multi-media and music tech as a matter of course, and someone else here has already mentioned liturgical dance ministries using recorded music. It can still be something between a giant step and quantum leap for more traditional churches, particularly those with vested choirs and organs, to use canned music. I also think the rationales those places use to exclude it are falling on harder and harder ears.
*ETA that despite its arguable over-playing, I still like that song by Keane.
My thanks to @Forthview for correcting me re mandatory singing at Mass. I'm not sure where I got the idea that the Gospel Acclamation should be sung at all Masses.
Bishop's Finger Theoretically there should be singing at all liturgies,but there is often a wide gap between theory and practice.
Remember what someone, somewhere, at some time, may have said
bis orat qui cantat he who sings prays twice (and possibly gets more brownie points)
If you require live music at all occasions, then you may find people getting married elsewhere, as live music can be expensive and weddings are expensive enough already.
If you require live music at all occasions, then you may find people getting married elsewhere, as live music can be expensive and weddings are expensive enough already.
I think it's perfectly fine for people to get married without a religious ceremony. Compared to average rehearsal dinner costs, florist costs, reception venue costs, and more, live music is fairly reasonable, ISTM.
I remember in the 50s and 60s hymns at The Lord's Supper were always sung without accompaniment.
I don't know if the Open Brethren have changed their practice since then.
RCs will correct me if I'm wrong, but AFAIK singing is not compulsory at any RC Mass, apart from the Gospel Acclamation. I expect the priest has to make a go of that, if necessary!
The gospel acclamation and the holy, holy, holy etc are supposed to be sung at every Mass. Our place sings before the gospel only, and that's pretty rare. Singing the holies etc is pretty unheard of in parishes.
If you require live music at all occasions, then you may find people getting married elsewhere, as live music can be expensive and weddings are expensive enough already.
The 75 quid I charge is a miniscule proportion og the cost of a wedding. Last time I heard the average cost was 30 grand.
If you require live music at all occasions, then you may find people getting married elsewhere, as live music can be expensive and weddings are expensive enough already.
Especially if copyright issues are ignored and royalties on that recorded music aren’t paid, as often seems to be the case.
There's been a clampdown on clergy and readers using electronic devices for liturgical texts on the grounds that it's easier to miss words out on screen.
Is it? Is there any actual evidence to show that that's true, or is this a Trumpesque reason?
Choice of font and spacing certainly have an effect on ease of reading (and chance of skipping a line). It's easier, I think, to lose your place in text that you're frequently scrolling up and down. But I don't think the electronicness, per se, is likely to make it easier to skip words: I think it's in the details.
I have not been to a Sunday service at any of the five churches in our group where there was no organist/ pianist, though I’m pretty sure it does happen in two of the smaller churches. We also possess a set of CDs designed to substitute as accompaniment, but again I have never heard them used.
Recorded music ( not backing tracks) is used for us to listen to and reflect on at the occasional Celtic services.
We no longer have a resident organist. Our Director of Music’s brief is to choose the hymns, train the choir and conduct us at the monthly Evensong. ( He is organist in another parish on Sunday mornings. ). The organ is played by whoever is available from a list of five, who have retired from regular commitments. One is cathedral standard. The rest are good enough. Very occasionally we have a not very good pianist, who usually changes the hymns to whatever they can play.
The choir belongs to the largest of the churches, but is sometimes asked to sing at one of the others, eg tomorrow being Palm Sunday there will be a procession from one small village to the next, where the service will be held. We will not be processing, but will sing for the service, accompanied by the ( best) organist.
We have a screen at the front linked to a laptop, which can play recordings of hymns as well as displaying the words. We have three organists so it isn’t often necessary to have recorded music, but as two of us are married to each other there are very occasional Sundays when both of us are away at the same time as organist no.3.
Youngest son spent a year in Ramallah. Yes, Palestine as a part of a global mission program. He plays s saxaphone, which he took with him. Every once in a while, the organist could not get across the Green Line for services. Son would take out his sax to play the music. He had to learn to read the music right to left instead of left to right.
In my first parish I learned it was harder for the organist to take off a weekend than it was for me. She was a very dedicated person. She had started playing church organ when she was in her teens. Then she was in her fifties.
Many small churches cannot afford to pay for an organist. Consequently, they have to rely on alternative forms. Is it any wonder some fellowships have turned to guitars or a small band to accompany the congregation in singing?
Many small churches cannot afford to pay for an organist. Consequently, they have to rely on alternative forms. Is it any wonder some fellowships have turned to guitars or a small band to accompany the congregation in singing?
That's an interesting point, as it assumes that organists have to be "hired in" and paid, while guitarists and other musicians may well be members of the congregation who see it as their Christian service and do it for free - like (for instance) Sunday School teachers.
As a Baptist, I've only been in one church which had a paid organist - many others though had volunteers. Perhaps this is a subtle difference between Anglicanism and Nonconformity?
I can get very vehement about people who refuse to pay musicians. Expecting services to be donated is the height of entitlement and not reasonable in any way
I can get very vehement about people who refuse to pay musicians. Expecting services to be donated is the height of entitlement and not reasonable in any way
Except that everyone else involved on a Sunday morning is donating their services. Even the priest/minister is paid a stipend not for leading Sunday worship but for the work they do during the week (which is why the CofE considers a clergy working week to be 52 hours - 40 hours that would be spent on paid work + 12 hours that would be spent on church activities by a committed lay person). The tech operator doesn't get paid, nor do those serving coffee, nor those doing the cleaning. When we had organists we gave them vouchers as a thank you; one organist insisted on spending them on more hymn books. Besides, it's not a matter of refusing to pay: most churches couldn't begin to afford to pay a professional wage to an organist.
I can get very vehement about people who refuse to pay musicians. Expecting services to be donated is the height of entitlement and not reasonable in any way
It's not a case of "refusing to pay musicians" or "expecting them to play for free". As the post above says, it's a case of volunteers - who almost certainly are not professional musicians - offering their gifts.
Our church does offer to pay organists (though well below standard rates) but we have all chosen not to accept payment for Sunday services.
It’s not particularly demanding playing and I enjoy it. The organ is right next to the front row of seats so I don’t feel isolated from the congregation.
In the UK it is only Anglican churches that pay musicians (big generalisation) as a matter of course. RC musicians are mainly volunteers, playing and singing in their own parishes. We get fees for funerals and weddings but no regular stipend.
I would be going to church there anyway, so it is not putting me out to provide music. Quite the contrary is is good for my ancient brain and fingers. And I get the buzz of being appreciated for what I do.
Our church does offer to pay organists (though well below standard rates) but we have all chosen not to accept payment for Sunday services.
It’s not particularly demanding playing and I enjoy it. The organ is right next to the front row of seats so I don’t feel isolated from the congregation.
Same at Our Place, as far as our principal organist is concerned (though she accepts payment for playing at the occasional wedding!). Our relief organist accepts a small gift of £££ for each occasion on which she plays - an arrangement carried forward from her former church.
Our organ is also close to the congregation, with the grand piano not far away...
Just for information, does that preclude recorded music (not necessarily to accompany hymns) at a funeral in church?
Yes.
However in practice......
Well, quite...people will insist on doing it their way...
I see what you did there, BF.
In our lowish on the candle C of E church musicians who are part of the congregation are volunteers, as are the sound and vision operators. If there is a wedding or similar an amount for their services is included in the fee charged by the church. The individuals may decline payment in which case it is treated as a donation by them.
The church was built in the 1950s and is a small warehouse. We have no organ but there is a keyboard that is used in the main service each week. There are two regular players of this but if neither are available (or they just want a week off) for the main service easch week we will have music played on CDs. The person putting the words on screen has to check how many verses there are and agree with the worship leader which ones to cut out or repeat. At all other regular services the CDs are used and the words are in hymn books rather than on screen. This is down to the shortage of volunteers although occasionally one might be persuaded to put up a PowerPoint for the sermon. The vicar is currently trying to find someone to do the visuals for a Maunday Thursday service.
Before we had CDs if there was nobody to play we would get someone in and pay them a fixed rate which may have been set by the diocese although my memory might be letting me down there.
Before we had CDs if there was nobody to play we would get someone in and pay them a fixed rate which may have been set by the diocese although my memory might be letting me down there.
Before we had CDs if there was nobody to play we would get someone in and pay them a fixed rate which may have been set by the diocese although my memory might be letting me down there.
Possibly set by the Royal College of Organists.
Or RSCM, if memory serves. I think that's how we decided what to offer the organist for our wedding.
Before we had CDs if there was nobody to play we would get someone in and pay them a fixed rate which may have been set by the diocese although my memory might be letting me down there.
Possibly set by the Royal College of Organists.
Or RSCM, if memory serves. I think that's how we decided what to offer the organist for our wedding.
Yes, it's the RSCM rates which we pay our organist for weddings.
Either way, AFAIK it's a fairly modest sum, given the astronomical cost of a *wedding* these days.
Perhaps an organ-playing Shipmate could give us some idea of what the fee might be? AIUI, it depends on what is played (copyright etc.), whether the service is recorded, and other factors.
Either way, AFAIK it's a fairly modest sum, given the astronomical cost of a *wedding* these days.
Perhaps an organ-playing Shipmate could give us some idea of what the fee might be? AIUI, it depends on what is played (copyright etc.), whether the service is recorded, and other factors.
As I recall, there are different rates for the size of building and whether the musician is a professional or not. I think we bumped it up to the top on both (it seemed stingy otherwise) and it was around £60-70, but of course that was 20 years ago. I assume it's around double that now.
Comments
Feel free to send us an organist by next post (actually, any musician who can carry the melody line would probably suffice).
What is your solution to this Outrage, @Gamma Gamaliel ?
I was teasing about the 'outrage' thing of course.
In Orthodoxy we don't go in for musical accompaniment, even though that is mentioned in the Psalms and elsewhere in scripture of course.
Some parishes have a reasonable choir. Others rely on a single cantor.
Our hymnody can be uplifting. It can also be execrable.
My question though - and joking aside I'm by no means attempting to legislate what other churches do - is how prevalent is the use of pre-recorded backing tracks?
It's only something I've come across twice to my recollection.
Given how many Shipmates have mentioned it on the Coffee thread then I assume it must be more prevalent than I supposed and across a range of churches and denominations.
I can imagine it happening in some Anglican and 'Free Church' settings, but how about the RCs?
Is it something we might encounter in the RCC?
I'm not trying to make or score any points. Just curious.
Having said that, most contemporary dance is performed to recorded music or soundscapes, so is some classical ballet (although that definitely loses out).
Yes.
However in practice......
Well, quite...people will insist on doing it their way...
Interesting.
So how do RC churches manage the kind of issues that @Arethosemyfeet describes?
No organist or musicians in the congregation.
Those RC services I've attended have had a pianist or organist, but I have attended one which had some very moving acapella chant in English and Latin by people who knew what they were doing.
I was very surprised when I learned some years ago that an RC church in my city used recording backing tracks for the hymns, especially as it’s an Opus Dei parish. Not what I would have expected from them liturgically, but that probably says more about my preconceptions than anything else.
'They have killed your prophets and torn down your altars. And now they are introducing recorded music even in Opus Dei parishes ...'
Are we Orthodox the only ones left? 🤔 😉
Once Rome falls, what chance is there for the rest of us?
I'll get me coat ...
It would be interesting to see how recorded chant might work in an Orthodox parish which didn't have a choir. The mischievous part of me wonders whether it would make that much difference in practical terms as in most parishes the choir do all of the singing.
But I can't see that happening any time soon.
There's been a clampdown on clergy and readers using electronic devices for liturgical texts on the grounds that it's easier to miss words out on screen.
So I'd imagine that similar objections being raised against the use of recorded chant.
Besides, they didn't have recorded chant in Hagia Sophia or 19th century Russia ...
Unless as I said on the other thread you’ve got a musical box like ours which is hymn tunes where you can choose how much welly you want from the organ. That has to be done in advance, but during the singing the operator can adjust the speed up and down to suit the congregation (or jolly them along). It can be very much down to the artistry of the operator with the buttons.
Not to the level of an actual organist, obviously, but it’s not just pressing play and stop either,
You make it sound as if there's actual skill involved ... 😉
But the ability to vary the tempo must be quite gratifying.
I'm reminded of a 'Lone Groover' cartoon I saw in a 1970s edition of NME.
As a roomful of people dance and boogie away energetically El Groover observes, 'I always thought Leonard Cohen sounded better on 78'.
Yes, and the continuing need to livestream to those who are housebound.
We could sing unaccompanied (and use our conference mic to capture it for the stream, but it only takes me coming down with a cold for that to fall flat too.
They muddle through, I guess. as a regular organist in a parish I don't often get to travel around other places. However in our area I don't know of any RC churches without someone - ranging from a good organist/pianist to a recorder player. Most seem to have a guitarist (ageing!) And plenty of priests are happy to lead from the front.
I heard a report around 40 or 50 years ago of a weekday Divine Liturgy in a Greek Orthodox Church, where no cantor was present. The priest sang most of the cantor's part as well as his own, but when it came to the Cherubic Hymn, where he has a long prayer to read while the cantor is singing, he then switched on a cassetee recorder, using a recording of some very highly competent Byzantine choir.
They sometimes call on me to intone some of the readings but our priest booted me out of the choir, which was fair enough as I wasn't very good at it.
I was at a midweek communion once when it didn't look as if the choir would arrive and it would be the sub-deacon and myself muddling through but to my intense relief two of them arrived in time.
Nowadays most Sunday Masses in the UK do have musical accompaniment, very often in the form of hymns.
Often during the week I go to the local Jesuit church where there is no hymn singing but priest and people will sing the Kyrie,Sanctus and Agnus Dei.
On the other hand it is not uncommon if I go to a weekday Mass for a local school one of the teachers will play a recording of the music for the hymns which the children sing.
I think that'd fly in the face of "full, conscious, and active participation" from Vatican II, but I am not RC (though I do play for three RC masses each week).
We do not use 'canned' music at my RC parish, though a couple of times a year we listen to a pre-recorded message from the Bishop. Very occasionally we will have some very contemplative piped-in music before Mass, for people who've gathered very early to pray, but there is always a long interval of silence before Mass begins.
IME, the case where this issue crops up the most is for weddings and funerals. I very recently had a bride request that Keane's "Someplace only we know" be incorporated into her ceremony, even though our wedding customary very clearly states that recorded music cannot be used, and that all wedding music be decidedly sacred. For a while back when it was a new country song, a number of bereaved families requested the playing of "I can only imagine," but that was gently dissuaded. A little over a year ago, my daughter who's a cantor at a large RC parish up north was approached just before a funeral was to begin with a request for "Don't cry for me, Argentina." When she shared that music wasn't available for the organist and she to use, the gentleman making the request produced a CD and tried to hand it to her with the request that it be played instead. At that point the organist intervened.
The more that some church music has come to resemble/imitate/morph into or with current popular music, I think the easier it is for people in those communities to rationalize having a recording used for a service, even if it isn't within their own community/place. Big-box-praise-band-'worship' team-evangelical churches use all kinds of multi-media and music tech as a matter of course, and someone else here has already mentioned liturgical dance ministries using recorded music. It can still be something between a giant step and quantum leap for more traditional churches, particularly those with vested choirs and organs, to use canned music. I also think the rationales those places use to exclude it are falling on harder and harder ears.
*ETA that despite its arguable over-playing, I still like that song by Keane.
Remember what someone, somewhere, at some time, may have said
bis orat qui cantat he who sings prays twice (and possibly gets more brownie points)
Or so I am told.
It's not unknown for the wedding families to import a musician for the occasion, hopefully with the permission of the incumbent priest and organist!
I think it's perfectly fine for people to get married without a religious ceremony. Compared to average rehearsal dinner costs, florist costs, reception venue costs, and more, live music is fairly reasonable, ISTM.
I don't know if the Open Brethren have changed their practice since then.
The gospel acclamation and the holy, holy, holy etc are supposed to be sung at every Mass. Our place sings before the gospel only, and that's pretty rare. Singing the holies etc is pretty unheard of in parishes.
The 75 quid I charge is a miniscule proportion og the cost of a wedding. Last time I heard the average cost was 30 grand.
Is it? Is there any actual evidence to show that that's true, or is this a Trumpesque reason?
Choice of font and spacing certainly have an effect on ease of reading (and chance of skipping a line). It's easier, I think, to lose your place in text that you're frequently scrolling up and down. But I don't think the electronicness, per se, is likely to make it easier to skip words: I think it's in the details.
Recorded music ( not backing tracks) is used for us to listen to and reflect on at the occasional Celtic services.
We no longer have a resident organist. Our Director of Music’s brief is to choose the hymns, train the choir and conduct us at the monthly Evensong. ( He is organist in another parish on Sunday mornings. ). The organ is played by whoever is available from a list of five, who have retired from regular commitments. One is cathedral standard. The rest are good enough. Very occasionally we have a not very good pianist, who usually changes the hymns to whatever they can play.
The choir belongs to the largest of the churches, but is sometimes asked to sing at one of the others, eg tomorrow being Palm Sunday there will be a procession from one small village to the next, where the service will be held. We will not be processing, but will sing for the service, accompanied by the ( best) organist.
In my first parish I learned it was harder for the organist to take off a weekend than it was for me. She was a very dedicated person. She had started playing church organ when she was in her teens. Then she was in her fifties.
Many small churches cannot afford to pay for an organist. Consequently, they have to rely on alternative forms. Is it any wonder some fellowships have turned to guitars or a small band to accompany the congregation in singing?
That's an interesting point, as it assumes that organists have to be "hired in" and paid, while guitarists and other musicians may well be members of the congregation who see it as their Christian service and do it for free - like (for instance) Sunday School teachers.
As a Baptist, I've only been in one church which had a paid organist - many others though had volunteers. Perhaps this is a subtle difference between Anglicanism and Nonconformity?
Except that everyone else involved on a Sunday morning is donating their services. Even the priest/minister is paid a stipend not for leading Sunday worship but for the work they do during the week (which is why the CofE considers a clergy working week to be 52 hours - 40 hours that would be spent on paid work + 12 hours that would be spent on church activities by a committed lay person). The tech operator doesn't get paid, nor do those serving coffee, nor those doing the cleaning. When we had organists we gave them vouchers as a thank you; one organist insisted on spending them on more hymn books. Besides, it's not a matter of refusing to pay: most churches couldn't begin to afford to pay a professional wage to an organist.
It's not a case of "refusing to pay musicians" or "expecting them to play for free". As the post above says, it's a case of volunteers - who almost certainly are not professional musicians - offering their gifts.
It’s not particularly demanding playing and I enjoy it. The organ is right next to the front row of seats so I don’t feel isolated from the congregation.
I would be going to church there anyway, so it is not putting me out to provide music. Quite the contrary is is good for my ancient brain and fingers. And I get the buzz of being appreciated for what I do.
Same at Our Place, as far as our principal organist is concerned (though she accepts payment for playing at the occasional wedding!). Our relief organist accepts a small gift of £££ for each occasion on which she plays - an arrangement carried forward from her former church.
Our organ is also close to the congregation, with the grand piano not far away...
I see what you did there, BF.
In our lowish on the candle C of E church musicians who are part of the congregation are volunteers, as are the sound and vision operators. If there is a wedding or similar an amount for their services is included in the fee charged by the church. The individuals may decline payment in which case it is treated as a donation by them.
The church was built in the 1950s and is a small warehouse. We have no organ but there is a keyboard that is used in the main service each week. There are two regular players of this but if neither are available (or they just want a week off) for the main service easch week we will have music played on CDs. The person putting the words on screen has to check how many verses there are and agree with the worship leader which ones to cut out or repeat. At all other regular services the CDs are used and the words are in hymn books rather than on screen. This is down to the shortage of volunteers although occasionally one might be persuaded to put up a PowerPoint for the sermon. The vicar is currently trying to find someone to do the visuals for a Maunday Thursday service.
Before we had CDs if there was nobody to play we would get someone in and pay them a fixed rate which may have been set by the diocese although my memory might be letting me down there.
Or RSCM, if memory serves. I think that's how we decided what to offer the organist for our wedding.
Yes, it's the RSCM rates which we pay our organist for weddings.
Either way, AFAIK it's a fairly modest sum, given the astronomical cost of a *wedding* these days.
Perhaps an organ-playing Shipmate could give us some idea of what the fee might be? AIUI, it depends on what is played (copyright etc.), whether the service is recorded, and other factors.
As I recall, there are different rates for the size of building and whether the musician is a professional or not. I think we bumped it up to the top on both (it seemed stingy otherwise) and it was around £60-70, but of course that was 20 years ago. I assume it's around double that now.