Conclave 2025 -- Welcoming a new Pope

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  • DoublethinkDoublethink Admin, 8th Day Host
    I am watching the live feed and assuming the delay is due to people frantically adjusting the sizing on white vestments
  • RuthRuth Shipmate
    I can't remember how long it has taken in the past for the new pope to appear. Seems like someone might want a moment to collect himself and his thoughts first.
  • I think the identity of Pope Francis was announced only some 45 minutes after the white smoke appeared...

    It's certainly not unreasonable for the man chosen to want a few minutes of reflection and preparation, before he appears in public.
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    I am watching the live feed and assuming the delay is due to people frantically adjusting the sizing on white vestments

    I recall reading that three sets of Papal vestments are created in advance of a conclave so they're ready if the cardinals pick a small, medium, or large Pope.
  • kingsfoldkingsfold Shipmate
    edited May 8
    Cardinal Robert Prevost, and if my Latin is correct, he's going to be Leo.

    ETA: Yup, Leo XIV
  • CaissaCaissa Shipmate
    An American pope. Rigged by Trump. ;^)
  • DoublethinkDoublethink Admin, 8th Day Host
    edited May 8
    Presumably the first American Pope ?
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    I really wasn’t expecting an American! I wonder what that suggests about the cardinals’ thinking.

    And he’s an Augustinian friar.


  • RuthRuth Shipmate
    I'm stunned.
  • Robertus LRobertus L Shipmate
    And when he said Robertus,I thought perhaps......
  • Wesley JWesley J Circus Host
    He speaks Italian, fairly good accent.
  • FirenzeFirenze Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    Presumably the first American Pope ?

    First north American.

  • FirenzeFirenze Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    Robertus L wrote: »
    And when he said Robertus,I thought perhaps......

    Having your Hadrian VII moment?

  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    Firenze wrote: »
    Presumably the first American Pope ?

    First north American.
    Yes, but potential confusion notwithstanding, American is the accepted and standard demonym in English for someone from the United States of America.


  • RuthRuth Shipmate
    edited May 8
    Firenze wrote: »
    Presumably the first American Pope ?

    First north American.

    And he worked in Peru for quite a while.

    Edit: Wikipedia says he became a naturalized citizen of Peru.
  • DafydDafyd Hell Host
    Ruth wrote: »
    I'm stunned.
    In a good way or a bad way?
    The Guardian describes him as a moderate which doesn't mean much to me.
  • FirenzeFirenze Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    Ruth wrote: »
    Firenze wrote: »
    Presumably the first American Pope ?

    First north American.

    And he worked in Peru for quite a while.

    Edit: Wikipedia says he became a naturalized citizen of Peru.

    Pope Paddington.

    The last Leo (XIII) was strong on social justice, I note.

  • RockyRogerRockyRoger Shipmate
    Pope Bob, eh? Short for kate?
    (apologies to non-Blackadder fans).
  • Robertus LRobertus L Shipmate
    Firenze wrote: »
    Robertus L wrote: »
    And when he said Robertus,I thought perhaps......

    Having your Hadrian VII moment?

    I'm not quite that deluded (yet)
  • Wesley JWesley J Circus Host
    edited May 8
    He speaks quite fast. Wonder if that's because he was a bit nervous at his first outing, (understandably), or if he is a hectic kind of a person. Do any of you know more, have you seen him in action previously?
  • betjemaniacbetjemaniac Shipmate
    Wesley J wrote: »
    He speaks quite fast. Wonder if that's because he was a bit nervous at his first outing, (understandably), or if he is a hectic kind of a person. Do any of you know more, have you seen him in action previously?

    Does anyone know anything about him? instagram is currently awash with vitriolic attacks but I’ve never heard of him.
  • HedgehogHedgehog Shipmate
    I gather he has been the head of the Vatican's office of bishops, so he carried some weight in the Vatican even before being made Pope.

  • PigletPiglet All Saints Host, Circus Host
    Anyone care to open a book on how long before Tr*mp takes credit for the appointment of an American?
  • DoublethinkDoublethink Admin, 8th Day Host
    I give it 12 hours.
  • chrisstileschrisstiles Hell Host
    And then another 12 hours before Loomer calls the pope woke, and Trump insults him.
  • Alan29Alan29 Shipmate
    Interesting choice of name.
  • RuthRuth Shipmate
    Dafyd wrote: »
    Ruth wrote: »
    I'm stunned.
    In a good way or a bad way?
    The Guardian describes him as a moderate which doesn't mean much to me.
    Stunned that they elected an American. Less stunned once I read that he's a polyglot who has lived most of his adult life outside the US.
    Firenze wrote: »
    The last Leo (XIII) was strong on social justice, I note.
    Which is meaningful, based on what folks say about how popes choose their names. I wonder if the cardinals are hoping Leo XIV will lead Catholics, including (especially?) in the US, to oppose the worst of Trump's moves in this regard.
  • Robertus LRobertus L Shipmate
    I wonder if part of the reason for choosing a moderate American wasn't exactly to counterbalance Tr*mp in a geopolitical sense. Moderate is of course relative he may well look like a rabid foaming at the mouth woke socialist to some but much more nuanced to others.

    With any luck we'll also be seeing fewer ' all Americans are dumb' memes knocking about now there's an equally influential American on the world stage.
  • TelfordTelford Shipmate
    The BBC website claims that "St. Peter was elected around the year 30AD" which you could argue is strictly true but probably gives the wrong impression...

    I would say that Peter was appointed rather than elected.
  • The_RivThe_Riv Shipmate
    Robertus L wrote: »
    With any luck we'll also be seeing fewer ' all Americans are dumb' memes knocking about now there's an equally influential American on the world stage.

    Equally influential? Let’s not get carried away.
  • HedgehogHedgehog Shipmate
    Alan29 wrote: »
    Interesting choice of name.

    Indeed. I guess we will have to wait to see if there is an official announcement as to whether he chose it to reflect Leo XIII or one of the other Leos.

    Or, you know, he just always loved MGM's Leo the Lion.

    (He's a Virgo, so we can tentatively rule out an astrological reason...)
  • CaissaCaissa Shipmate
    edited May 8
    Time to read Rerum Novarum again. (Had to read it in my undergrad days.)
    https://www.vatican.va/content/leo-xiii/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_l-xiii_enc_15051891_rerum-novarum.html
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    Robertus L wrote: »
    I wonder if part of the reason for choosing a moderate American wasn't exactly to counterbalance Tr*mp in a geopolitical sense.
    That’s what I’ve wondered, too.


  • DoublethinkDoublethink Admin, 8th Day Host
    It seems likely to me.
  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    The_Riv wrote: »
    Robertus L wrote: »
    With any luck we'll also be seeing fewer ' all Americans are dumb' memes knocking about now there's an equally influential American on the world stage.

    Equally influential? Let’s not get carried away.

    "How many divisions does the Pope have?"
  • Robertus LRobertus L Shipmate
    No idea, but I know the Pope and the cardinals know how to keep a secret, something that the President and his defence department seems incapable of.
  • TurquoiseTasticTurquoiseTastic Kerygmania Host
    Turquoise Crystal Ball says Tagle. Any other predictions?

    Turquoise Crystal Ball on the blink again! Interesting and unexpected choice. Could be good!
  • Might upset Trump, though...
    :naughty:
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    edited May 9
    Robertus L wrote: »
    I wonder if part of the reason for choosing a moderate American wasn't exactly to counterbalance Tr*mp in a geopolitical sense.
    The New York Times is reporting on how an Instagram account associated with the new pope has posted things critical of J.D. Vance and of the administration’s policies:

    ‘JD Vance Is Wrong’: The Pope Appears Uneasy With Trump Immigration Policies
    “Before Cardinal Robert Francis Prevost became pope, a social media account under his name shared criticisms of the Trump administration’s positions on immigration.”


    (Gift link.)

    From the article:
    Not everyone in Mr. Trump’s orbit may be quite as pleased.

    Even before the selection of the new pope, Steve Bannon, one of the president’s top allies, who has urged the church to adopt a more traditional stance, described Cardinal Prevost as “one of the dark horses” to become the next pontiff.

    “Unfortunately, he’s one of the most progressive,” Mr. Bannon said in the interview last week.

    We’ll see.


  • (It occurs to me Trump only wanted to be pope because no one had explained the position was as servant of the servants of God)

    Well, he doesn't understand that the President is the chief servant of the American people, so this wouldn't be a surprise.
  • Alan29Alan29 Shipmate
    edited May 9
    Caissa wrote: »
    Time to read Rerum Novarum again. (Had to read it in my undergrad days.)
    https://www.vatican.va/content/leo-xiii/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_l-xiii_enc_15051891_rerum-novarum.html

    There is a good commentary on this 1891 document in Wiki. It is the foundation of Catholic Social Doctrine. There is a continuous thread running from it to the major concerns of Francis' ministry.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rerum_novarum#Rights_and_duties_of_property_ownership
  • ForthviewForthview Shipmate
    From today Catholics in the Scottish archdiocese of St Andrews and Edinburgh will hear in the eucharistic prayer ;
    Be pleased to confirm in faith and charity your pilgrim Church on earth,with your servant LEO ,our pope and LEO,our bishop,the Order of bishops and the entire people you have gained for your own.
    Incidently the first act of the pontificate of Leo XIII in 1878 was to restore the territorial dioceses of the Catholic church in Scotland.
  • MarsupialMarsupial Shipmate
    Oddly I remember Leo XIII primarily as being the impetus behind the original Leonine Edition of the works of St Thomas Aquinas (Leo XIII was a fan…). Apparently there has been a modern critical edition in the works for some time… maybe it will finally get finished under the new Leo.
  • stonespringstonespring Shipmate
    I love that in Italian, Spanish, and Portuguese (as in Latin), the name Leo is the same as the word for a lion (which makes sense). It's not the same in French or German, though, as in English. It would be funny in English to have a Pope Lion.
  • HedgehogHedgehog Shipmate
    Today Pope Leo XIV presided over his first Mass as Pope. Here is an English transcript of his sermon. (At least, I hope it is in English. It is when displayed on my computer, and I don't think I enabled any "instant translation" software.)

    He finds the lack of faith distressing.
  • ForthviewForthview Shipmate
    A few days ago on a UK quiz programme a contestant was asked for the name of an Italian artist whose name meant 'Bold Lion' The contestant immediately answered Leonardo da Vinci. Only then did I realize that Leon Ardo is Bold Lion.

    Leo XIV in Italian is Leone quattordicesimo or in an older fashioned way
    Leone decimo quarto
  • RuthRuth Shipmate
    Hedgehog wrote: »
    Today Pope Leo XIV presided over his first Mass as Pope. Here is an English transcript of his sermon.

    I find this interesting:
    Today, too, there are many settings in which Jesus, although appreciated as a man, is reduced to a kind of charismatic leader or superman. This is true not only among non-believers but also among many baptized Christians, who thus end up living, at this level, in a state of practical atheism.
  • stonespringstonespring Shipmate
    A professional genealogist quoted in the NYT and multiple other news sources discovered rather quickly after the announcement of Leo XIV's election that his maternal grandparents were Creole people of color who lived and married in New Orleans (and were identified in censuses as black or
    "mulatto"
    (which was a term used in censuses at the time)).

    His maternal grandfather, whose surname (which became Leo's mother's maiden name) was Martinez, seems likely to have been born in Haiti or the Dominican Republic next door. Leo's father's family's background was French and Italian.

    One of Leo's brothers (I believe it was John Prevost) confirmed this but said their family does not identify as black. It is not clear whether Leo himself identifies as multiracial at all or as anything other than white.

    Should this matter? Maybe not. There were Popes from North Africa in Early Christianity that might have had Berber ancestry. But it one of many ways in which Leo XIV's background and life history is unusual for a Pope in modern times.
  • Good sermon.
  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    And then another 12 hours before Loomer calls the pope woke, and Trump insults him.

    Loomer literally called him "woke", along with "marxist", in a tweet.
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