Widow Tova Sullivan works as a cleaner at the Sowell Bay Aquarium and strikes up an acquaintance with the resident Pacific octopus, Marcellus. Can this remarkably bright creature get the humans to see the answer to the book's mystery?
I'm waiting to see if a library copy becomes available, but will probably buy a copy if needed based on everyone's high praise. There's a long waiting list at the library but sometimes they offer a copy earlier for some reason so I might be lucky. It must be a popular book!
Tantilizing! I read half this book and adored it, it was due back at the library and there were a bunch of reserves on it and so I have taken it back and am in the queue to get my hands on it again to finish it. Absolutely magical!
As I explained when we were discussing adding this book to the Ship Book Group reads, I read this book some months ago and have not reread it for this discussion (so many books-in-waiting). So these are "Discussion Lite" starter questions. There are more at Reading Group Guides if anyone wants to pick up on any of those. I'm also indebted to Goodreads reviewer Abby Kincanon for the "insufferable man-child"question.
1. Was this your first time of reading or a reread?
2. Did you enjoy it?
3. Was the "willing suspension of disbelief" hard for you - which elements of the book were particularly hard? - or did the story carry you along?
4. Were there particular characters that you liked and others that you disliked?
5. "I want more octopus and less insufferable man-child" - Abby Kincanon. Do you agree?
1. Was this your first time of reading or a reread?
First time, after it was recommended on Ship!
2. Did you enjoy it?
Yes, very much.
3. Was the "willing suspension of disbelief" hard for you - which elements of the book were particularly hard? - or did the story carry you along?
I found the octopus very believable. I had a hard time with the "insufferable man-child," probably due to too much exposure in real life. I mean, I've seen (and lived with) people like that, long ago, and for whatever weird psychological reason, it makes me have trouble believing it now when it goes on at such length, and the fuckwittery blocks off every single avenue--he can't even manage to get his transportation straight. There comes a point where the ongoing fuck-up-your-lifeness just makes me want to say, "Get a clue."
I did have a bit of trouble with the ring making it through so many coincidences to finally bring the truth to the surface. But it was mild.
4. Were there particular characters that you liked and others that you disliked?
The octopus was wonderful--not at all sentimental, a kind of detached intelligence that nevertheless managed to learn to care for Tova while remaining ... is "alien" the word I'm looking for? A creature who sees his situation clearly enough to be totting up the days of his captivity, and who regards death and its prodrome ("The consequences") as a calculated risk to take while carrying out his plans. A creature who regards the other creatures in the aquarium as either snacks or dangers, and treats them in ways that are most likely to serve his own ends--and manages to succeed because he judges them so well.
I liked Tova too, especially the bits where she was cooperating with the octopus's unsanctioned trips out of the tank, and preventing the aquarium staff from discovering or preventing them.
5. "I want more octopus and less insufferable man-child" - Abby Kincanon. Do you agree?
Yes, please. I would be glad to see about 500% more octopus. (I do want to know why the staff never figured out that the missing sea creatures had wound up as octopus snacks. It would be the first thing I'd think of, after reading up on the creatures--even without evidence that the octopus was taking nightly strolls.)
6. Anything else you would like to discuss?
I want to know where the mother of the "man-child" is. Since she's apparently alive, and theoretically reachable, I kept expecting her to turn up, if only in an email or something. She could, after all, testify to the paternity stuff. But she doesn't. While that is the kind of loose end that happens all the time in real life, the rest of this novel ties things up so neatly that I wasn't expecting this to go un-tied.
I wasn't sure I would get the book from the library in time, but I got it yesterday.
Answers to questions:
1. Yes, first time reading it. It's not something I would normally go for.
2. Yes, I did enjoy it.
3. The only part where my 'willing suspension of disbelief' was strained was when I was asked to believe that all the insufferable man-child's friends and relations would go on forgiving him. As for the rest of it... what can I say, I read murder mysteries. Now there's a genre that really requires suspension of disbelief.
4. I liked all of the characters with the possible exception of the man-child, but my favourite was the octopus. Of course.
5. Having said that, I am not sure the book would have worked so well with more cephalopod. There are only so many things you can say about an octopus that likes to get out of his tank and help himself to midnight snacks, even one who is trying to reunite his best friend with a long-lost member of her family.
6. I really liked the ending. I thought for a while it was going to be 'Tova changes her mind about selling her house' but what the author did was better. Time for her to let go of some things, but not everything, and to move on to others.
1. Was this your first time of reading or a reread?
I read it some months ago for my real life book group and have not reread it for the discussion.
2. Did you enjoy it?
Yes I did.
3. Was the "willing suspension of disbelief" hard for you - which elements of the book were particularly hard? - or did the story carry you along?
The story carried me along. Once I accepted that Marcellus really was that intelligent (could read, etc) the rest of it was believable for me.
4. Were there particular characters that you liked and others that you disliked?
Marcellus and Tova were my favourites - my heart ached for Tova and the loss and uncertainty she lived with for so many years - and Cameron tried my patience sorely. I speed-read some of the bits about him.
5. "I want more octopus and less insufferable man-child" - Abby Kincanon. Do you agree? Yes. I enjoyed the passages about and by Marcellus the best of them all.
6. Anything else you would like to discuss?
So as I said, I didn't reread this for the discussion so some of the details are hazy in my mind. I remember being very satisfied by the ending, on everyone's behalf, but can someone remind me the details of exactly how Tova realised Cameron was her grandson? I know it was from the high school ring that Cameron had (which his mother had told him belonged to his father and was engraved with Erik's initials) but did Cameron show her the ring? I have a feeling Marcellus was involved in that somehow?
I also would like to know what happened to Cameron's mother Daphne; wasn't there some hint at the end of the book that her sister Jeanne was going to try to find her...?
And at the end Marcellus goes back to the ocean, is that right? Was it Tova who did that?
Cameron the insufferable man-child threw the ring into the wolf eel tank in a tantrum. Marcellus got it back and gave it to Tova, which is when she realised who Cameron's father was.
Tova found Marcellus almost dead on the aquarium floor, managed to get him into her mop bucket and wheeled him back to the ocean. I did like that bit, even though Marcellus only has a few days left to live by then.
1. Was this your first time of reading or a reread?
It was my first time reading it.
2. Did you enjoy it?
Immensely.
3. Was the "willing suspension of disbelief" hard for you - which elements of the book were particularly hard? - or did the story carry you along?
I found the octopus quite believable. We had just the right of dialogue from his point of view. I think much more might have been too much and pushed the willing suspension. I found all of the coincidences to be something that was a little more difficult to believe.
4. Were there particular characters that you liked and others that you disliked?
5. "I want more octopus and less insufferable man-child" - Abby Kincanon. Do you agree?
I disagree although I may be the first male to post on the book. I can relate to Cameron in some ways. Many of my years in grad school were aimless culminating in the intelligent decision to withdraw from my doctoral studies. My early thirties as I was establishing my career in pse student services were ones in which I did not always make sound judgements and almost self-sabotaged my career. I also grew up in a working class neighbourhood with many Cameron’s and have much empathy for them.
6. Anything else you would like to discuss?
Despite the fact the coincidences were many, the plot aspect of Tova and Cameron learning of their relationship and Cameron finally becoming comfortable in his skin and experiencing different types of love and relationships was touching to me.
1. Was this your first time of reading or a reread? First time
2. Did you enjoy it? Yes, very much
3. Was the "willing suspension of disbelief" hard for you - which elements of the book were particularly hard? - or did the story carry you along?
I found the story carried me along. Sure the coincidence of Cameron being Tove’s grandson is a bit much, but was emotionally satisfying. Nor am I sure that a Great Pacific Octopus can read, but so what?
4. Were there particular characters that you liked and others that you disliked?
Marcellus was a great character, self-aware, clever, and while seeing his neighbours as food, nonetheless has concern for Tove and even Cameron. I liked that he ended up, even if briefly, in the ocean – and the picture of Tove wheeling him in a bucket is great. Tove is a stoic figure, she is mourning her husband and also the disappearance and assumed drowning of her son 30 years earlier; she has a group of friends and pride in her Scandinavian heritage – and she realises Marcellus’ intelligence and connives at his wanderings around the aquarium after dark. (I think that there is at the end of the book and acknowledgement that the Terry at least realised Marcellus was eating his neighbours).
5. "I want more octopus and less insufferable man-child" - Abby Kincanon. Do you agree?
I was less irritated, perhaps, by Cameron’s bumbling incompetence than others, but I did keep visualising him as a teenager (which is how he behaves) rather than a 30 yr-old. If anyone can make him pull himself together it’s Tove. I think I agree with others that, delightful as Marcellus is, more octopus might have backfired – better to be wanting more.
I did wonder whether Cameron's bumbling incompetence was modelled on someone the author knows. I suppose I find him irritating because of the contrast with the young woman who was forced to grow up at the age of 17 because she had a baby. But the author does make the point (via Cameron's mother) that not all teenage mothers are able to claw their way back up to running their own business and having an amazing life.
Cameron the insufferable man-child threw the ring into the wolf eel tank in a tantrum. Marcellus got it back and gave it to Tova, which is when she realised who Cameron's father was.
Tova found Marcellus almost dead on the aquarium floor, managed to get him into her mop bucket and wheeled him back to the ocean. I did like that bit, even though Marcellus only has a few days left to live by then.
Comments
1. Was this your first time of reading or a reread?
2. Did you enjoy it?
3. Was the "willing suspension of disbelief" hard for you - which elements of the book were particularly hard? - or did the story carry you along?
4. Were there particular characters that you liked and others that you disliked?
5. "I want more octopus and less insufferable man-child" - Abby Kincanon. Do you agree?
6. Anything else you would like to discuss?
Please do say why.
First time, after it was recommended on Ship!
2. Did you enjoy it?
Yes, very much.
3. Was the "willing suspension of disbelief" hard for you - which elements of the book were particularly hard? - or did the story carry you along?
I found the octopus very believable. I had a hard time with the "insufferable man-child," probably due to too much exposure in real life. I mean, I've seen (and lived with) people like that, long ago, and for whatever weird psychological reason, it makes me have trouble believing it now when it goes on at such length, and the fuckwittery blocks off every single avenue--he can't even manage to get his transportation straight. There comes a point where the ongoing fuck-up-your-lifeness just makes me want to say, "Get a clue."
I did have a bit of trouble with the ring making it through so many coincidences to finally bring the truth to the surface. But it was mild.
4. Were there particular characters that you liked and others that you disliked?
The octopus was wonderful--not at all sentimental, a kind of detached intelligence that nevertheless managed to learn to care for Tova while remaining ... is "alien" the word I'm looking for? A creature who sees his situation clearly enough to be totting up the days of his captivity, and who regards death and its prodrome ("The consequences") as a calculated risk to take while carrying out his plans. A creature who regards the other creatures in the aquarium as either snacks or dangers, and treats them in ways that are most likely to serve his own ends--and manages to succeed because he judges them so well.
I liked Tova too, especially the bits where she was cooperating with the octopus's unsanctioned trips out of the tank, and preventing the aquarium staff from discovering or preventing them.
5. "I want more octopus and less insufferable man-child" - Abby Kincanon. Do you agree?
Yes, please. I would be glad to see about 500% more octopus. (I do want to know why the staff never figured out that the missing sea creatures had wound up as octopus snacks. It would be the first thing I'd think of, after reading up on the creatures--even without evidence that the octopus was taking nightly strolls.)
6. Anything else you would like to discuss?
I want to know where the mother of the "man-child" is. Since she's apparently alive, and theoretically reachable, I kept expecting her to turn up, if only in an email or something. She could, after all, testify to the paternity stuff. But she doesn't. While that is the kind of loose end that happens all the time in real life, the rest of this novel ties things up so neatly that I wasn't expecting this to go un-tied.
Answers to questions:
1. Yes, first time reading it. It's not something I would normally go for.
2. Yes, I did enjoy it.
3. The only part where my 'willing suspension of disbelief' was strained was when I was asked to believe that all the insufferable man-child's friends and relations would go on forgiving him. As for the rest of it... what can I say, I read murder mysteries. Now there's a genre that really requires suspension of disbelief.
4. I liked all of the characters with the possible exception of the man-child, but my favourite was the octopus. Of course.
5. Having said that, I am not sure the book would have worked so well with more cephalopod. There are only so many things you can say about an octopus that likes to get out of his tank and help himself to midnight snacks, even one who is trying to reunite his best friend with a long-lost member of her family.
6. I really liked the ending. I thought for a while it was going to be 'Tova changes her mind about selling her house' but what the author did was better. Time for her to let go of some things, but not everything, and to move on to others.
I read it some months ago for my real life book group and have not reread it for the discussion.
2. Did you enjoy it?
Yes I did.
3. Was the "willing suspension of disbelief" hard for you - which elements of the book were particularly hard? - or did the story carry you along?
The story carried me along. Once I accepted that Marcellus really was that intelligent (could read, etc) the rest of it was believable for me.
4. Were there particular characters that you liked and others that you disliked?
Marcellus and Tova were my favourites - my heart ached for Tova and the loss and uncertainty she lived with for so many years - and Cameron tried my patience sorely. I speed-read some of the bits about him.
5. "I want more octopus and less insufferable man-child" - Abby Kincanon. Do you agree?
Yes. I enjoyed the passages about and by Marcellus the best of them all.
6. Anything else you would like to discuss?
So as I said, I didn't reread this for the discussion so some of the details are hazy in my mind. I remember being very satisfied by the ending, on everyone's behalf, but can someone remind me the details of exactly how Tova realised Cameron was her grandson? I know it was from the high school ring that Cameron had (which his mother had told him belonged to his father and was engraved with Erik's initials) but did Cameron show her the ring? I have a feeling Marcellus was involved in that somehow?
I also would like to know what happened to Cameron's mother Daphne; wasn't there some hint at the end of the book that her sister Jeanne was going to try to find her...?
And at the end Marcellus goes back to the ocean, is that right? Was it Tova who did that?
Tova found Marcellus almost dead on the aquarium floor, managed to get him into her mop bucket and wheeled him back to the ocean. I did like that bit, even though Marcellus only has a few days left to live by then.
It was my first time reading it.
2. Did you enjoy it?
Immensely.
3. Was the "willing suspension of disbelief" hard for you - which elements of the book were particularly hard? - or did the story carry you along?
I found the octopus quite believable. We had just the right of dialogue from his point of view. I think much more might have been too much and pushed the willing suspension. I found all of the coincidences to be something that was a little more difficult to believe.
4. Were there particular characters that you liked and others that you disliked?
5. "I want more octopus and less insufferable man-child" - Abby Kincanon. Do you agree?
I disagree although I may be the first male to post on the book. I can relate to Cameron in some ways. Many of my years in grad school were aimless culminating in the intelligent decision to withdraw from my doctoral studies. My early thirties as I was establishing my career in pse student services were ones in which I did not always make sound judgements and almost self-sabotaged my career. I also grew up in a working class neighbourhood with many Cameron’s and have much empathy for them.
6. Anything else you would like to discuss?
Despite the fact the coincidences were many, the plot aspect of Tova and Cameron learning of their relationship and Cameron finally becoming comfortable in his skin and experiencing different types of love and relationships was touching to me.
1. Was this your first time of reading or a reread? First time
2. Did you enjoy it? Yes, very much
3. Was the "willing suspension of disbelief" hard for you - which elements of the book were particularly hard? - or did the story carry you along?
I found the story carried me along. Sure the coincidence of Cameron being Tove’s grandson is a bit much, but was emotionally satisfying. Nor am I sure that a Great Pacific Octopus can read, but so what?
4. Were there particular characters that you liked and others that you disliked?
Marcellus was a great character, self-aware, clever, and while seeing his neighbours as food, nonetheless has concern for Tove and even Cameron. I liked that he ended up, even if briefly, in the ocean – and the picture of Tove wheeling him in a bucket is great. Tove is a stoic figure, she is mourning her husband and also the disappearance and assumed drowning of her son 30 years earlier; she has a group of friends and pride in her Scandinavian heritage – and she realises Marcellus’ intelligence and connives at his wanderings around the aquarium after dark. (I think that there is at the end of the book and acknowledgement that the Terry at least realised Marcellus was eating his neighbours).
5. "I want more octopus and less insufferable man-child" - Abby Kincanon. Do you agree?
I was less irritated, perhaps, by Cameron’s bumbling incompetence than others, but I did keep visualising him as a teenager (which is how he behaves) rather than a 30 yr-old. If anyone can make him pull himself together it’s Tove. I think I agree with others that, delightful as Marcellus is, more octopus might have backfired – better to be wanting more.
Ah, yes. Thank you.