'We'? Is he claiming to be commander-in-chief of the IDF now?
Netanyahu has definitely drawn Trump into the process by appealing to his vanity. Since the weapons Israel is using comes from the US, I think there is probably some cooperation in the use.
I have long ceased to be surprised at anything Mr Trump says or does, but his habit of returning military salutes when in civvies still irks me. The British practice, I understand, is to salute if one is in uniform, with appropriate headgear. If in mufti one salutes by raising one's hat (a bowler for preference). Churchill, as Former Naval Person and Minister of Defence, adopted a Royal Navy uniform on occasion in WWII. Trump does not have that option, not being a former anything. He could salute by taking off his hideous MAGA cap, which I notice a has now turned a rather grubby greyish-white.
If he took off his ghastly MAGA hat, his hair would probably come off with it (depending on the strength or otherwise of the Glue he used that morning).
I have long ceased to be surprised at anything Mr Trump says or does, but his habit of returning military salutes when in civvies still irks me. The British practice . . . .
It irks you that the way things are done in a country not your own might be different from how things are done in your country?
The president is the commander-in-chief. Service members in uniform are required to salute the president, but the president is not required to return the salute. It was Ronald Reagan who made returning the salute more commonplace. Per Snopes:
I can’t resist telling you a little story that I’ve just told the marine guard at the Embassy. The story has to do with saluting. I was a second lieutenant of horse cavalry back in the World War II days. As I told the admiral, I wound up flying a desk for the Army Air Force. And so, I know all the rules about not saluting in civilian clothes and so forth, and when you should or shouldn’t. But then when I got this job—[laughter]—and I would be approaching Air Force One or Marine One and those marines would come to a salute and I—knowing that I am in civilian clothes — I would nod and say hello and think they could drop their hand, and they wouldn’t. They just stood there. So, one night over at the Commandant’s quarters, Marine Commandant’s quarters in Washington, and I was getting a couple of highballs, and I didn’t—[laughter]—know what to do with them. So, I said to the Commandant—I said, “Look, I know all the rules about saluting in civilian clothes and all, but if I am the Commander in Chief, there ought to be a regulation that would permit me to return a salute.” And I heard some words of wisdom. He said, “I think if you did, no one would say anything.” [Laughter]
So, if you see me on television and I'm saluting, you know that I've got authority for it now—[laughter]—and I do it happily.
Since Reagan, it’s been more common for the president to return the salute.
Now, one could say that it was different for Reagan (or George H. W. Bush), who’d actually served in the military, to return the salute, compared to Trump, who evaded service. One could also say that Trump’s salute is hypocritical, given all the ways he has disrespected service members.
But if it irks you simply that a president returns a salute while in civvies, or that the president doesn’t follow “British practice,” that’s your problem.
Obama also returned the salute when deplaning Air Force One or Marine One. But I do not think Obama would salute a passing flag or military column. Trump, though, seems to salute anything that moves. I think it is particularly galling since he was a draft dodger from the get go. Clinton and Biden never served, but they had legitimate draft deferments. Clinton because of education and then a high draft number in the end. Biden because he had asthma. Obama was 12 years old when the draft ended.
Thanks for the explanation, US shipmates. I wasn't taking issue with the President (what would be the point?), simply saying the civilian/military salute looked odd to British eyes. As in the C of E, it seems, what is done three times is a Tradition.
Thanks for the explanation, US shipmates. I wasn't taking issue with the President (what would be the point?), simply saying the civilian/military salute looked odd to British eyes.
So you weren't "irked"?
And do you have any idea how many of the things you do in the UK look odd to American eyes? Yet we just let you continue on without comment, as you let your cats roam outside to kill birds and get squished by cars, drive on the wrong side of the road, spell things incorrectly, pretend that politeness is a national trait ... in general, have your own country where you do things your own way.
Thanks for the explanation, US shipmates. I wasn't taking issue with the President (what would be the point?), simply saying the civilian/military salute looked odd to British eyes.
So you weren't "irked"?
And do you have any idea how many of the things you do in the UK look odd to American eyes? Yet we just let you continue on without comment, as you let your cats roam outside to kill birds and get squished by cars, drive on the wrong side of the road, spell things incorrectly, pretend that politeness is a national trait ... in general, have your own country where you do things your own way.
I say, old girl, steady on, don't you know?
Bill Bryson is very funny about differences btwen the UK and US.
Thanks for the explanation, US shipmates. I wasn't taking issue with the President (what would be the point?), simply saying the civilian/military salute looked odd to British eyes.
So you weren't "irked"?
And do you have any idea how many of the things you do in the UK look odd to American eyes? Yet we just let you continue on without comment, as you let your cats roam outside to kill birds and get squished by cars, drive on the wrong side of the road, spell things incorrectly, pretend that politeness is a national trait ... in general, have your own country where you do things your own way.
I say, old girl, steady on, don't you know?
Bill Bryson is very funny about differences btwen the UK and US.
Well, he used to be. Mostly these days he's just curmudgeonly. His sequel to Notes might as well have been a series of Daily Telegraph opinion pieces.
Thanks for the explanation, US shipmates. I wasn't taking issue with the President (what would be the point?), simply saying the civilian/military salute looked odd to British eyes.
So you weren't "irked"?
And do you have any idea how many of the things you do in the UK look odd to American eyes? Yet we just let you continue on without comment, as you let your cats roam outside to kill birds and get squished by cars, drive on the wrong side of the road, spell things incorrectly, pretend that politeness is a national trait ... in general, have your own country where you do things your own way.
A lot of your fellow Americans on the internet don’t. They assume that anyone on the internet is in the US or that US English or cultural norms are the way things are.
The Ship is different in many ways, but not the internet as a whole. You can rightfully protest on here and you do. It is not the case everywhere.
Thanks for the explanation, US shipmates. I wasn't taking issue with the President (what would be the point?), simply saying the civilian/military salute looked odd to British eyes.
So you weren't "irked"?
And do you have any idea how many of the things you do in the UK look odd to American eyes? Yet we just let you continue on without comment, as you let your cats roam outside to kill birds and get squished by cars, drive on the wrong side of the road, spell things incorrectly, pretend that politeness is a national trait ... in general, have your own country where you do things your own way.
A lot of your fellow Americans on the internet don’t. They assume that anyone on the internet is in the US or that US English or cultural norms are the way things are.
The Ship is different in many ways, but not the internet as a whole. You can rightfully protest on here and you do. It is not the case everywhere.
So what? How is that even relevant? Americans here are generally well behaved, yet we constantly take shit from Brits. We don't make lots of negative generalizations about you. We post with the understanding that you are within earshot.
Stop pretending that you're polite and extend basic courtesy to us.
So what? How is that even relevant? Americans here are generally well behaved, yet we constantly take shit from Brits. We don't make lots of negative generalizations about you. We post with the understanding that you are within earshot.
Stop pretending that you're polite and extend basic courtesy to us.
Ruth, I've found you the most negative and impolite one on this thread by far.
You seem to jump on any and every person from the UK who comments and tries to understand how things are in the US just now.
So what? How is that even relevant? Americans here are generally well behaved, yet we constantly take shit from Brits. We don't make lots of negative generalizations about you. We post with the understanding that you are within earshot.
Stop pretending that you're polite and extend basic courtesy to us.
Ruth, I've found you the most negative and impolite one on this thread by far.
You seem to jump on any and every person from the UK who comments and tries to understand how things are in the US just now.
You are not helpful in that regard at all imo
This.
I get that it can be aggravating, and the situation in the US right now isn't one that's conducive to being able to take things in one's stride but, Ruth, you've been getting pissy with people over minor stuff a lot recently and usually the grievance is legitimate but the response looks disproportionate.
So what? How is that even relevant? Americans here are generally well behaved, yet we constantly take shit from Brits. We don't make lots of negative generalizations about you. We post with the understanding that you are within earshot.
Stop pretending that you're polite and extend basic courtesy to us.
Ruth, I've found you the most negative and impolite one on this thread by far.
You seem to jump on any and every person from the UK who comments and tries to understand how things are in the US just now.
Sorry, but I don’t think that’s fair or accurate. In my experience, @Ruth doesn’t jump on “any and every person from the UK who comments and tries to understand.” She calls out—and with valid reason, I think—those from the UK or elsewhere who opine without first being informed, or whose judgments amount to “that’s not how we do it here,” with an implicit “and of course the way we do it is the right way,” or who ask stupid questions like “do Americans not worry about their country?”
There are plenty of shipmates from the UK who manage to post on topics like US politics in a way that is both respectful of American shipmates and that demonstrates a good understanding of the topic. Ruth has acknowledged that many times.
I have long ceased to be surprised at anything Mr Trump says or does, but his habit of returning military salutes when in civvies still irks me. The British practice, I understand, is . . . .
(Notably, he goes on to illustrate the British practice by describing what Churchill did, ignoring that, unlike an American president, the prime minister is not commander-in-chief of the military.)
So, Eirenist says he is “irked” (that is, irritated or annoyed) by a practice that is unfamiliar to him and that isn’t how it’s done in the UK. He wasn’t “trying to understand how things are in the US right now.” The way to do that is with a question—“Is there a reason Trump does this?” He was making a judgment about it—that it “irks” him. And then when called on it, he claimed he was “simply saying the civilian/military salute looked odd to British eyes.” The problem, of course, is that he used words that don’t mean what he now says he was “simply saying.”
For the record, I’m the one who first criticized Eirenist’s “irked” comment, and I stand by that criticism. I found it rude and condescending. Why should a non-American be “irked” just because an American president in civilian clothes, even if it’s Trump, returns a salute from members of the military in uniform? Why should they care enough to be “irked.” The post irked me.
Ruth didn’t comment until Eirenist claimed to have meant something other than what he actually said, which might have been okay had it been phrased along the lines of “I could have said that better.”
If American shipmates have been getting pissy over what seems like minor stuff recently, perhaps it’s because one minor thing after another after another gets really tiresome.
If American shipmates have been getting pissy over what seems like minor stuff recently, perhaps it’s because one minor thing after another after another gets really tiresome.
Or because we have to live directly under this maniac every day of our miserable lives. And yes, we know that you suffer from him too. We try to cut you slack for that reason. We wish you'd do the same for us.
So what? How is that even relevant? Americans here are generally well behaved, yet we constantly take shit from Brits. We don't make lots of negative generalizations about you. We post with the understanding that you are within earshot.
Stop pretending that you're polite and extend basic courtesy to us.
Ruth, I've found you the most negative and impolite one on this thread by far.
You seem to jump on any and every person from the UK who comments and tries to understand how things are in the US just now.
You are not helpful in that regard at all imo
Yes, I jump on individuals who say stupid things about the US as a whole or Americans as a group.
And I don't care about being helpful when I'm offended.
So what? How is that even relevant? Americans here are generally well behaved, yet we constantly take shit from Brits. We don't make lots of negative generalizations about you. We post with the understanding that you are within earshot.
Stop pretending that you're polite and extend basic courtesy to us.
Ruth, I've found you the most negative and impolite one on this thread by far.
You seem to jump on any and every person from the UK who comments and tries to understand how things are in the US just now.
You are not helpful in that regard at all imo
This.
I get that it can be aggravating, and the situation in the US right now isn't one that's conducive to being able to take things in one's stride but, Ruth, you've been getting pissy with people over minor stuff a lot recently and usually the grievance is legitimate but the response looks disproportionate.
Proportionate responses over the decades have not made a difference, and I don't care how many people here dislike me for saying things other Americans are too nice to say. The "minor stuff" happens again and again and again. As soon as I saw the thread titled "Cats" I knew someone would say it's bad that a lot of Americans don't let their cats outside.
I'm pissy at the repeated rudeness, and I'm not going to let it go.
Did you mean pissy, or is this another pond difference of which I was previously unaware ?
I assume she means "pissy" as in "angry, pissed off" -- the first sense in the M-W unabridged. The second sense is "irritating, annoying" and perhaps that's what she meant in referring to others.
Netanyahu refers to the awesome and righteous might of Trump's actions. Is he another dupe, falling into the trap of thinking that Trump is actually some form of god? Or is he (as some suspect) using Trump for his own ends, to keep himself out of jail?
Trump just bombed Iran - I think we've all got bigger problems than falling out with each other.
Very shaken and filled with dread at this news, prayers for all affected in Iran, the Middle East and elsewhere.
Me, too. I wonder what (if any) mention this lurch towards a wider war will receive at church this morning, as they go for a little walk in the street with the Blessed Sacrament.
Okay. The TV monitors at CDG airport in Paris are telling me Pakistan has nominated him for the Nobel Peace Prize. I was hoping it was just my bad French, but CNN confirms.
Okay. The TV monitors at CDG airport in Paris are telling me Pakistan has nominated him for the Nobel Peace Prize. I was hoping it was just my bad French, but CNN confirms.
I wouldn't read too much into that. It's pretty easy to get nominated for the Peace Prize. I believe any university professor is entitled to make a nomination, for example.
Apparently there are 338 candidates for the Peace Prize this year, but who they are (and who nominated them) isn't information that the Nobel Committee releases - at least, not for 50y after nomination. So, we won't know who they are unless the person nominating someone makes that known.
They announced they had nominated him before he bombed Iran. Why is unclear. The stated reason is supposedly some help in calming tensions between India and Pakistan. The actual reason is likely buttering up Trump who is known to want the Nobel peace prize possibly to lower US imposed tariffs, possibly to encourage Trump not to do what he has now done and bomb Iran. Pakistan does share a longish land boundary with Iran.
Apparently there are 338 candidates for the Peace Prize this year, but who they are (and who nominated them) isn't information that the Nobel Committee releases - at least, not for 50y after nomination. So, we won't know who they are unless the person nominating someone makes that known.
So someone could say they're making a nomination but not really do it and no one would be the wiser for 50 years. Seems ripe for shenanigans!
The world gets weirder every day. Now we have trump believing that engaging in a war against Iran without congressional approval is just as worthy of a Nobel peace prize as his support and enabling of Netanyahu's Palestinian holocaust. Now he has all but invited Iran to attack the USA, we'll soon see who his real friends are.
Maybe noting that the ongoing occupation of Palestine and the support for the terrorist acts against Palestinian people to try and force them to leave (or die) to make space for Israeli settlers looks a lot like a quest for lebensraum.
Or, we could note that the Palestinian people are a problem for settlement, and that the Israeli government has found a final solution by shooting them as they queue for food.
The Israeli government (both the current government and practically all previous governments) is a major sponsor of terrorism, is engaged in acts of genocide that's resulted in the death or displacement of millions of people, and a rogue criminal state that's been the cause of international tension throughout the region for 75+ years. If the west is convinced that Iran should not possess nuclear weapons, then Israel should be denied nuclear weapons. If it's appropriate to bomb sites in Iran that a dodgy dossier says are working on producing a nuclear weapon then any similar sites in Israel should also be targeted (and, just to be clear such sites in neither nation should be bombed).
Not sure we should be using the term 'Holocaust' wrt to what Israel is doing in Gaza/Palestine.
Or maybe we absolutely should.
Yes. I used the word intentionally, as we are watching the planned and unhindered destruction by starvation and bombing of an entire civilian ethnic population, its schools, its hospitals, its refugee camps and any infrastructure that supports the lives of those people. It goes beyond genocide.
Comments
Hence the royal *we*.
Netanyahu has definitely drawn Trump into the process by appealing to his vanity. Since the weapons Israel is using comes from the US, I think there is probably some cooperation in the use.
The president is the commander-in-chief. Service members in uniform are required to salute the president, but the president is not required to return the salute. It was Ronald Reagan who made returning the salute more commonplace. Per Snopes: Since Reagan, it’s been more common for the president to return the salute.
Now, one could say that it was different for Reagan (or George H. W. Bush), who’d actually served in the military, to return the salute, compared to Trump, who evaded service. One could also say that Trump’s salute is hypocritical, given all the ways he has disrespected service members.
But if it irks you simply that a president returns a salute while in civvies, or that the president doesn’t follow “British practice,” that’s your problem.
So you weren't "irked"?
And do you have any idea how many of the things you do in the UK look odd to American eyes? Yet we just let you continue on without comment, as you let your cats roam outside to kill birds and get squished by cars, drive on the wrong side of the road, spell things incorrectly, pretend that politeness is a national trait ... in general, have your own country where you do things your own way.
I say, old girl, steady on, don't you know?
Bill Bryson is very funny about differences btwen the UK and US.
Well, he used to be. Mostly these days he's just curmudgeonly. His sequel to Notes might as well have been a series of Daily Telegraph opinion pieces.
A lot of your fellow Americans on the internet don’t. They assume that anyone on the internet is in the US or that US English or cultural norms are the way things are.
The Ship is different in many ways, but not the internet as a whole. You can rightfully protest on here and you do. It is not the case everywhere.
So what? How is that even relevant? Americans here are generally well behaved, yet we constantly take shit from Brits. We don't make lots of negative generalizations about you. We post with the understanding that you are within earshot.
Stop pretending that you're polite and extend basic courtesy to us.
Ruth, I've found you the most negative and impolite one on this thread by far.
You seem to jump on any and every person from the UK who comments and tries to understand how things are in the US just now.
You are not helpful in that regard at all imo
This.
I get that it can be aggravating, and the situation in the US right now isn't one that's conducive to being able to take things in one's stride but, Ruth, you've been getting pissy with people over minor stuff a lot recently and usually the grievance is legitimate but the response looks disproportionate.
There are plenty of shipmates from the UK who manage to post on topics like US politics in a way that is both respectful of American shipmates and that demonstrates a good understanding of the topic. Ruth has acknowledged that many times.
Here, however, @Eirenist posted: (Notably, he goes on to illustrate the British practice by describing what Churchill did, ignoring that, unlike an American president, the prime minister is not commander-in-chief of the military.)
So, Eirenist says he is “irked” (that is, irritated or annoyed) by a practice that is unfamiliar to him and that isn’t how it’s done in the UK. He wasn’t “trying to understand how things are in the US right now.” The way to do that is with a question—“Is there a reason Trump does this?” He was making a judgment about it—that it “irks” him. And then when called on it, he claimed he was “simply saying the civilian/military salute looked odd to British eyes.” The problem, of course, is that he used words that don’t mean what he now says he was “simply saying.”
For the record, I’m the one who first criticized Eirenist’s “irked” comment, and I stand by that criticism. I found it rude and condescending. Why should a non-American be “irked” just because an American president in civilian clothes, even if it’s Trump, returns a salute from members of the military in uniform? Why should they care enough to be “irked.” The post irked me.
Ruth didn’t comment until Eirenist claimed to have meant something other than what he actually said, which might have been okay had it been phrased along the lines of “I could have said that better.”
If American shipmates have been getting pissy over what seems like minor stuff recently, perhaps it’s because one minor thing after another after another gets really tiresome.
Extra strong dose of stupid
Or because we have to live directly under this maniac every day of our miserable lives. And yes, we know that you suffer from him too. We try to cut you slack for that reason. We wish you'd do the same for us.
Very shaken and filled with dread at this news, prayers for all affected in Iran, the Middle East and elsewhere.
Yes, I jump on individuals who say stupid things about the US as a whole or Americans as a group.
And I don't care about being helpful when I'm offended.
Proportionate responses over the decades have not made a difference, and I don't care how many people here dislike me for saying things other Americans are too nice to say. The "minor stuff" happens again and again and again. As soon as I saw the thread titled "Cats" I knew someone would say it's bad that a lot of Americans don't let their cats outside.
I'm pissy at the repeated rudeness, and I'm not going to let it go.
I assume she means "pissy" as in "angry, pissed off" -- the first sense in the M-W unabridged. The second sense is "irritating, annoying" and perhaps that's what she meant in referring to others.
Me, too. I wonder what (if any) mention this lurch towards a wider war will receive at church this morning, as they go for a little walk in the street with the Blessed Sacrament.
Okay. The TV monitors at CDG airport in Paris are telling me Pakistan has nominated him for the Nobel Peace Prize. I was hoping it was just my bad French, but CNN confirms.
I wouldn't read too much into that. It's pretty easy to get nominated for the Peace Prize. I believe any university professor is entitled to make a nomination, for example.
Now that’s a phrase I never thought I’d hear.
My guess is they feel like they need to suck up to him.
So someone could say they're making a nomination but not really do it and no one would be the wiser for 50 years. Seems ripe for shenanigans!
Genocide, then.
Or, we could note that the Palestinian people are a problem for settlement, and that the Israeli government has found a final solution by shooting them as they queue for food.
The Israeli government (both the current government and practically all previous governments) is a major sponsor of terrorism, is engaged in acts of genocide that's resulted in the death or displacement of millions of people, and a rogue criminal state that's been the cause of international tension throughout the region for 75+ years. If the west is convinced that Iran should not possess nuclear weapons, then Israel should be denied nuclear weapons. If it's appropriate to bomb sites in Iran that a dodgy dossier says are working on producing a nuclear weapon then any similar sites in Israel should also be targeted (and, just to be clear such sites in neither nation should be bombed).
https://forums.shipoffools.com/discussion/5349/we-have-no-place-else-to-go-conflict-in-the-middle-east#latest
-- chrisstiles, Hell Host
Or maybe we absoluely should.
He seems to be enjoying this war.
😢🕯️
Well, he's a lawless bully, who loves bashing people up, and being outside the law.
I wonder what (or who) his nemesis will be?
Yes. I used the word intentionally, as we are watching the planned and unhindered destruction by starvation and bombing of an entire civilian ethnic population, its schools, its hospitals, its refugee camps and any infrastructure that supports the lives of those people. It goes beyond genocide.