I was serving this morning, so I didn't do much singing; unfortunately the Gradual is the one hymn where the server's not doing anything else, so I had to half-heartedly join in ...
O praise ye the Lord - Laudate Dominum Hallelujah, my Father O worship the Lord in the beauty of holiness - Was Lebet Be still, for the presence of the Lord - Be Still Mine eyes have seen the glory - Battle Hymn of the Republic
Harvest at a village church in our group.
Come ye thankful people come
How great thou art
To thee O Lord our hearts we raise
We plough the fields and scatter
Great is thy faithfulness.
Accompanied by a barking dog and the clatter of Duplo Lego, plus organ.
Organ Introit: Hymn Prelude on Slane: Healey Willan
Mass setting: How - Shrewsbury Service
Anthem: The Secret of Christ - Shephard
Hymns:
Praise to the Lord - Lobe den Herren
Rise and hear - Sussex
In heavenly love abiding - Penlan
We have a gospel - Fulda
Organ Voluntary: Prelude, Fugue and Chaconne BuxWV 137 Buxtehude
The Shrewsbury Service is a popular one with us. Haven't sung a lot of Shephard, but admired the composer's gift for melody in this lovely short anthem. Always love singing Fulda. Always hate singing Penlan.
BuxWV 137 is always a banger to finish things off.
Scout & Guide Parade service. Theme: "The Bible as God's library".
“Come, let us praise the Lord” - Darwall's 148th.
"Ancient words” (Lynn DeSouza).
“Lord, your word shall guide us” - Ravenshaw.
“Powerful in making us wise to salvation” - Epiphany Hymn (jazzed up a bit).
“Thanks to God whose Word was spoken” - Cwm Rhondda.
We had:
What a friend we have in Jesus
Jesus lover of my soul
All my hope on God is founded (filleted to 3 verses of 5 for reasons unknown)
Jesus Saviour, Lord to you we fly (a new one on me, origin somewhere in south Asia, but whether the Punjab or Sri Lanka seems to be disputed. Ok, nothing awful, nothing great)
Spirit of God, unseen as the wind
I was serving this morning, so I didn't do much singing; unfortunately the Gradual is the one hymn where the server's not doing anything else, so I had to half-heartedly join in ...
O praise ye the Lord - Laudate Dominum Hallelujah, my Father O worship the Lord in the beauty of holiness - Was Lebet Be still, for the presence of the Lord - Be Still Mine eyes have seen the glory - Battle Hymn of the Republic
Which was the Gradual? There are at least two in that list, maybe three, that half-heartedly joining in would require all my effort.
We sing of Luke blest Saint (Leoni) from The Sheet
Appleford new English Mass
Hark the sound of holy voices (Deerhurst)
From thee all skill and science flow (Belmont)
What thanks and praise to thee we owe (Ely)
I rather enjoyed this, never seen the first hymn before but it had very Victorian era words. No idea where it got dredged up from 🤔 The last one was in the old standard A&M and was also on The Sheet. Lovely to play Deerhurst again, decades ago the Glastonbury procession before Evensong used to start with it.
Evensong for Trinity 19
All people that on earth (Old 100th)
How sweet the name (St Peter)
Be thou my guardian (Abridge)
Saviour again (Ellers)
Evensong
Introit: Thou knowest Lord the secrets of our hearts. (Purcell)
Canticles: Morley in B flat.
Anthem: Spirit of mercy, truth and love.
( H.A. Chambers. )
Hymns:
Praise to the Lord the Almighty ( Lobe den Herren)
Great shepherd of thy people (Oswald’s Tree)
Lord for the years.
Ah, thanks. That was my third of “maybe three.” It’s one of those hymns/songs that I think can be fairly nice or fairly dire, depending on context and how it’s sung, including what instruments are (or aren’t) used.
At the moment we have a different officiant for every service. At Evensong they put the three hymns in various places. Likewise the anthem and the sermon. There is always a short sermon.
All a bit discombobulating for the choir.
Yesterday the first hymn was much later than expected. Is there an optimum placing?
If you always have three hymns, an anthem, and a sermon, there's a case for the Churchwardens and PCC to agree a fixed order, asking the visiting officiants to keep to it...on the good old basis of 'That's how we do it here'!
Personally, it always seems wrong to start off with a hymn, the first of which (the 'Office Hymn') should come immediately after the Versicles and Responses (the last of which is 'The Lord's name be praised'). There then follow the Psalm etc., right through to the end of the Third Colic, after which followeth the Anthem (in Quires, and Places where they Sing).
More prayers, a second hymn, the sermon (short is good), and a final hymn of praise and thanksgiving - preferably not one of those lugubrious ditties about dying during the night etc..
Nonconformists traditionally would have a "Call to worship" (usually a verse or two of Scripture to set the scene, as it were) followed by the first hymn. Of course nowadays the service often begins with a welcome and an extended time of worship (= singing).
At one time I went to a rather "high church" Church of Scotland where the choir would process in and sing an Introit. The Minister's first words would be, "Let us continue in worship ..." as he then announced the first hymn.
If you always have three hymns, an anthem, and a sermon, there's a case for the Churchwardens and PCC to agree a fixed order, asking the visiting officiants to keep to it...on the good old basis of 'That's how we do it here'!
Personally, it always seems wrong to start off with a hymn, the first of which (the 'Office Hymn') should come immediately after the Versicles and Responses (the last of which is 'The Lord's name be praised'). There then follow the Psalm etc., right through to the end of the Third Colic, after which followeth the Anthem (in Quires, and Places where they Sing).
More prayers, a second hymn, the sermon (short is good), and a final hymn of praise and thanksgiving - preferably not one of those lugubrious ditties about dying during the night etc..
At one time I went to a rather "high church" Church of Scotland where the choir would process in and sing an Introit. The Minister's first words would be, "Let us continue in worship ..." as he then announced the first hymn.
Our last incumbent did this, after the Introit.
I wouldn’t call ours a particularly high church, though Evensong with choir tends to follow traditional patterns.
Oh the joys of being in vacancy.
One Evensong, the visiting priest forgot the Introit, announcing the first hymn instead.
Other visitors have varied the place of the sermon, or missed out the anthem. Yet another announced he was following the prayers on page…and proceeded to pray for the Queen, realised his error so prayed for the King and Prince William Duke of Edinburgh.
Yesterday’s priest managed to get himself in front of the high altar to give the blessing by inserting himself behind the chairs which are currently forming a barrier duly labelled to prevent access, following a fall of plaster.
Yes, a set order of service needs agreeing and printing out for visiting ministers and organists, but this would need to be done by the Director of Music as no CW and only one PCC member attends Evensong.
Yesterday’s congregation numbered 9. Choir = 10 + DM + organist.
Well, there are various options. The pattern I set out above could also include a suitable seasonal Introit, sung by the choir, but a processional hymn sung by choir and people is IMHO superfluous, if you follow the words of the service logically.
Your Director of Music could well come up with an order of service, but I think it should probably be agreed with the PCC anyway, just to keep within the bounds of propriety. Your Area Dean might help, as they, I suppose, take the place legally of your incumbent whilst you're in vacancy.
21 at Evensong (the choir and staff count as part of the worshipping assembly!) isn't too bad. A church in Our Diocese used to have about the same number at Sunday Evensong and Benediction, and everyone fitted neatly into the choir stalls - choir and priest on one side, the rest on t'other. Benediction followed the Anthem IIRC, in place of further prayers/sermon, but the extra two hymns were the usual O Saving Victim and Therefore we before Him bending that one still finds in A-C Places.
Sorry about the Colic@Baptist Trainfan. I think I was channelling one of H G Wells' characters - possibly Kipps - who was forced every week to learn by heart the Colic for the Day, and that term has stayed in my mind (such as it is) ever since I first read that book sometime during the latter half of the last century...
Am I right to detect an absence of BCP Evensong. It is a thing I envy the CofE for. Choral Evensong in an ancient cathedral is balm for the soul.
It's mainly found in Cathedrals these days, I suspect, though there is at least one church in Our Town whose quite large choir sings a full BCP Evensong once a month. Another, with a much smaller group of singers, offers a simpler service once a month.
@Heron, The Purcell is one of my favourites. We had it at Mr Puzzler’s burial service too.
@Alan29 We do use BCP for Evensong, but the order of service has no place for hymns. Therefore I doubt if the PCC has any more authority over the placing of hymns than the DM to whom they have delegated the music, @Bishops Finger.
It was the Area Dean in charge last night, actually. He has a part time role at the cathedral, where they have only one hymn at Evensong, so I guess he was a bit flummoxed. From memory he announced the first hymn before the Psalm, the second after the sermon which followed the anthem, before the intercessions, the third at the end before the blessing. In his sermon he was extolling the virtues of Evensong and invited the congregation to attend the cathedral’s Evensongs, wrongly informing us that it is sung daily. It is not: it is said on certain days.
Your Area Dean got it right IMHO, though it was careless of him to mislead you as to Cathedral Evensong. IIRC, Our Cathedral generally has said Evening Prayer on Wednesdays, and occasionally on other days during choir holidays in the summer.
Evensong from BCP still happens in a fair few places in the rural south west and remains popular in country parts. Having said that I find usually single figures (if a small choir a few more of course) with perhsps a better number n towns. The urban parishes though seem to be less inclined except when there is a choral tradition and often only monthly then.
As to hymn positions some start with one, the higher places have an office hymn before the psalm or Magnificat (rural places can be slow to change) and before and after the sermon. My personal experince onlynof course.
The place in my patch which has BCP Evensong (every other month) has an introit hymn, psalms and canticles chanted, second Lord’s Prayer to Gregorian chant, then (after the third collect and the grace) hymn, sermon, prayers, and hymn followed by a blessing. Sometimes they don’t have a hymn between sermon and prayers.
It seems to me that rural parishes tend to have more hymns and encourage the congregation to participate in the psalms and canticles, whereas cathedrals expect the congregation to listen to the choir. There is merit in both approaches, but I can see Evensong dying out in the rural parishes if the congregation does not have the opportunity to participate.
@Puzzler I can see your point but I can also see it going the other way. If people have no experience of hymn singing, as younger generations tend not to, the expectation of joining in will be a powerful deterrent.
... if the congregation does not have the opportunity to participate.
My view of that is that you don't need to be singing to participate.
David and I used to love going to Evensong in other cathedrals or - better still - what we called the Cambridge Sprint: Evensong at King's, followed by a quick pootle along the road to Evensong at St John's. We never felt that we weren't participating; experiencing the beautiful music and liturgy being offered by two of the best choirs on the planet was participation enough (and you sing the Office Hymn, say the Creed and respond to the prayers).
Because you're sitting in the Quire, you feel very much a part of it; on one memorable occasion at King's I was almost sitting on Stephen Cleobury's lap ...
Some interesting comments here and I can see pretty much all the points that have been made. Regarding rural Evensongs I fear that they will indeed die out when the present (usually very elderly ime) clientele depart this life. I rarely see anybody young in the country except say Plough Sunday or Harvest and agree that the tradition of hymn singing (to say nothing of psalms and canticles!) is not familiar to them more's the pity 😒
Those people who do attend (outside the choral places) however few in numner do usually sing the service quite well in my personal experience of accompanying them for decades. Mind you I have also had one or two dire experiences of late!
A vicar once described Sung Evensong to me as a spectator sport.
I'll grant that the main difference between King's (where you have to queue to get in) and St John's (where you might be one of about a dozen in the congregation) is, as David used to put it, at King's you sometimes feel that you've been to a performance but at St John's it was a service.
I don't mean to cast aspersions on the sincerity of the choir at King's; but the difference in congregation sizes does make it feel rather more like a "performance", and because their reputation is so high, you tend to expect perfection. The first time I went there, there was a slightly iffy* entry at one point, which served to reassure us that even they weren't infallible!
* unlikely to be noticed by anyone but those who sang that sort of repertoire regularly, but David's face was a picture!
Comments
Some might find this an improvement
That image occurred to me, too.
It was.
I couldn't resist:
https://uk.video.search.yahoo.com/search/video?fr=mcafee&p=cartman+singing+o+holy+night&type=E211GB642G0#id=1&vid=96c21bb8c435477254e976e70adca4dc&action=click
Let the viewer beware!
Allelulia! Sing to Jesus (Hyfrydol)
Come, Ye Thankful People Come (St. George's Windsor)
Go Forth and Tell (Go Forth)
Praise, My Soul, the King of Heaven - LAUDA ANIMA
All who would valiant be* - MONKS GATE
Be Thou My Vision - SLANE
*But no hobgoblins nor foul fiends
O praise ye the Lord - Laudate Dominum
Hallelujah, my Father
O worship the Lord in the beauty of holiness - Was Lebet
Be still, for the presence of the Lord - Be Still
Mine eyes have seen the glory - Battle Hymn of the Republic
I the Lord of sea and sky
Be Thou My Visions
A film clip of a contemporary song with unfathomable lyrics sung way too fast
Come ye thankful people come
How great thou art
To thee O Lord our hearts we raise
We plough the fields and scatter
Great is thy faithfulness.
Accompanied by a barking dog and the clatter of Duplo Lego, plus organ.
Organ Introit: Hymn Prelude on Slane: Healey Willan
Mass setting: How - Shrewsbury Service
Anthem: The Secret of Christ - Shephard
Hymns:
Praise to the Lord - Lobe den Herren
Rise and hear - Sussex
In heavenly love abiding - Penlan
We have a gospel - Fulda
Organ Voluntary: Prelude, Fugue and Chaconne BuxWV 137 Buxtehude
The Shrewsbury Service is a popular one with us. Haven't sung a lot of Shephard, but admired the composer's gift for melody in this lovely short anthem. Always love singing Fulda. Always hate singing Penlan.
BuxWV 137 is always a banger to finish things off.
Cheers
Heron
Were they om holiday?
“Come, let us praise the Lord” - Darwall's 148th.
"Ancient words” (Lynn DeSouza).
“Lord, your word shall guide us” - Ravenshaw.
“Powerful in making us wise to salvation” - Epiphany Hymn (jazzed up a bit).
“Thanks to God whose Word was spoken” - Cwm Rhondda.
I think they prefer evening time...
What a friend we have in Jesus
Jesus lover of my soul
All my hope on God is founded (filleted to 3 verses of 5 for reasons unknown)
Jesus Saviour, Lord to you we fly (a new one on me, origin somewhere in south Asia, but whether the Punjab or Sri Lanka seems to be disputed. Ok, nothing awful, nothing great)
Spirit of God, unseen as the wind
We sing of Luke blest Saint (Leoni) from The Sheet
Appleford new English Mass
Hark the sound of holy voices (Deerhurst)
From thee all skill and science flow (Belmont)
What thanks and praise to thee we owe (Ely)
I rather enjoyed this, never seen the first hymn before but it had very Victorian era words. No idea where it got dredged up from 🤔 The last one was in the old standard A&M and was also on The Sheet. Lovely to play Deerhurst again, decades ago the Glastonbury procession before Evensong used to start with it.
Evensong for Trinity 19
All people that on earth (Old 100th)
How sweet the name (St Peter)
Be thou my guardian (Abridge)
Saviour again (Ellers)
Introit: Thou knowest Lord the secrets of our hearts. (Purcell)
Canticles: Morley in B flat.
Anthem: Spirit of mercy, truth and love.
( H.A. Chambers. )
Hymns:
Praise to the Lord the Almighty ( Lobe den Herren)
Great shepherd of thy people (Oswald’s Tree)
Lord for the years.
All a bit discombobulating for the choir.
Yesterday the first hymn was much later than expected. Is there an optimum placing?
Personally, it always seems wrong to start off with a hymn, the first of which (the 'Office Hymn') should come immediately after the Versicles and Responses (the last of which is 'The Lord's name be praised'). There then follow the Psalm etc., right through to the end of the Third Colic, after which followeth the Anthem (in Quires, and Places where they Sing).
More prayers, a second hymn, the sermon (short is good), and a final hymn of praise and thanksgiving - preferably not one of those lugubrious ditties about dying during the night etc..
That's how I like to see it arranged, but YMMV.
For shame! They're the whole reason for singing that hymn.
At one time I went to a rather "high church" Church of Scotland where the choir would process in and sing an Introit. The Minister's first words would be, "Let us continue in worship ..." as he then announced the first hymn.
Less of the Colic, please - ouch!
Our last incumbent did this, after the Introit.
I wouldn’t call ours a particularly high church, though Evensong with choir tends to follow traditional patterns.
Oh the joys of being in vacancy.
One Evensong, the visiting priest forgot the Introit, announcing the first hymn instead.
Other visitors have varied the place of the sermon, or missed out the anthem. Yet another announced he was following the prayers on page…and proceeded to pray for the Queen, realised his error so prayed for the King and Prince William Duke of Edinburgh.
Yesterday’s priest managed to get himself in front of the high altar to give the blessing by inserting himself behind the chairs which are currently forming a barrier duly labelled to prevent access, following a fall of plaster.
Yes, a set order of service needs agreeing and printing out for visiting ministers and organists, but this would need to be done by the Director of Music as no CW and only one PCC member attends Evensong.
Yesterday’s congregation numbered 9. Choir = 10 + DM + organist.
Your Director of Music could well come up with an order of service, but I think it should probably be agreed with the PCC anyway, just to keep within the bounds of propriety. Your Area Dean might help, as they, I suppose, take the place legally of your incumbent whilst you're in vacancy.
21 at Evensong (the choir and staff count as part of the worshipping assembly!) isn't too bad. A church in Our Diocese used to have about the same number at Sunday Evensong and Benediction, and everyone fitted neatly into the choir stalls - choir and priest on one side, the rest on t'other. Benediction followed the Anthem IIRC, in place of further prayers/sermon, but the extra two hymns were the usual O Saving Victim and Therefore we before Him bending that one still finds in A-C Places.
Sorry about the Colic @Baptist Trainfan. I think I was channelling one of H G Wells' characters - possibly Kipps - who was forced every week to learn by heart the Colic for the Day, and that term has stayed in my mind (such as it is) ever since I first read that book sometime during the latter half of the last century...
A staple of royal funerals too.
It's mainly found in Cathedrals these days, I suspect, though there is at least one church in Our Town whose quite large choir sings a full BCP Evensong once a month. Another, with a much smaller group of singers, offers a simpler service once a month.
@Alan29 We do use BCP for Evensong, but the order of service has no place for hymns. Therefore I doubt if the PCC has any more authority over the placing of hymns than the DM to whom they have delegated the music, @Bishops Finger.
It was the Area Dean in charge last night, actually. He has a part time role at the cathedral, where they have only one hymn at Evensong, so I guess he was a bit flummoxed. From memory he announced the first hymn before the Psalm, the second after the sermon which followed the anthem, before the intercessions, the third at the end before the blessing. In his sermon he was extolling the virtues of Evensong and invited the congregation to attend the cathedral’s Evensongs, wrongly informing us that it is sung daily. It is not: it is said on certain days.
Your Area Dean got it right IMHO, though it was careless of him to mislead you as to Cathedral Evensong. IIRC, Our Cathedral generally has said Evening Prayer on Wednesdays, and occasionally on other days during choir holidays in the summer.
FYI: https://www.ipswichminster.org/worship - however I suspect that Sunday Evensong is CW not BCP.
21 including choir, organist and officiant would be a crowd at St Pete's; we'd do well to get a dozen.
As to hymn positions some start with one, the higher places have an office hymn before the psalm or Magnificat (rural places can be slow to change) and before and after the sermon. My personal experince onlynof course.
David and I used to love going to Evensong in other cathedrals or - better still - what we called the Cambridge Sprint: Evensong at King's, followed by a quick pootle along the road to Evensong at St John's. We never felt that we weren't participating; experiencing the beautiful music and liturgy being offered by two of the best choirs on the planet was participation enough (and you sing the Office Hymn, say the Creed and respond to the prayers).
Because you're sitting in the Quire, you feel very much a part of it; on one memorable occasion at King's I was almost sitting on Stephen Cleobury's lap ...
Those people who do attend (outside the choral places) however few in numner do usually sing the service quite well in my personal experience of accompanying them for decades. Mind you I have also had one or two dire experiences of late!
I'll grant that the main difference between King's (where you have to queue to get in) and St John's (where you might be one of about a dozen in the congregation) is, as David used to put it, at King's you sometimes feel that you've been to a performance but at St John's it was a service.
I don't mean to cast aspersions on the sincerity of the choir at King's; but the difference in congregation sizes does make it feel rather more like a "performance", and because their reputation is so high, you tend to expect perfection. The first time I went there, there was a slightly iffy* entry at one point, which served to reassure us that even they weren't infallible!
* unlikely to be noticed by anyone but those who sang that sort of repertoire regularly, but David's face was a picture!