People applauded at the end of the organ voluntary yesterday evening as well, which I thought was nice. I always feel for the organists as some people seem to regard the service as finished before they start and I'm sure they put a lot of time and thought into what they play.
Yes, come to think of it, we get it at ours if we end with certain boppy hymns. It always makes me feel uncomfortable - We're Brits, dammit and Catholics to boot!
David quite often got a round of applause after the voluntary when we were in Canada, and not just at Christmas.
I'm very envious of all your carol services; although we'll have some lessons* and carols on Christmas Eve and Christmas Day, I don't think we have an organist who could manage The Chord™. 😢
A vast number.
Its almost worth the journey to drive to Llanfihangel-yng-Ngwynfa with the car satnav turned on just to hear what the voice does with the name.
David quite often got a round of applause after the voluntary when we were in Canada, and not just at Christmas.
I'm very envious of all your carol services; although we'll have some lessons* and carols on Christmas Eve and Christmas Day, I don't think we have an organist who could manage The Chord™. 😢
* sadly, read in a very inferior translation.
The chord's just a Bm7b5. It's the entire verse setting that's a bit of a bugger.
I think a congregation really needs a choir to help navigate that verse.
It's tricky - the organ part rather reinforces the descant which can leave a congregation floundering.
The Chord™ in the Willcocks arrangement is only on the last verse (“Yea, Lord, we greet thee”), which is in unison, everyone singing the melody. The descant is on the previous verse (“Sing, choirs of angels”).
Some applause at the end of a post-service voluntary is appropriate, and is the norm at Our Cathedral after Evensong.
I went to my cathedral carol service last night. Unfortunately I couldn’t hear the voluntary at the end (Marcel Dupre, Prelude and Fugue in B Major) because as soon as the choir and clergy had processed out, most of the large congregation started talking very loudly, thus drowning the organ 😡
David quite often got a round of applause after the voluntary when we were in Canada, and not just at Christmas.
I'm very envious of all your carol services; although we'll have some lessons* and carols on Christmas Eve and Christmas Day, I don't think we have an organist who could manage The Chord™. 😢
* sadly, read in a very inferior translation.
We have to use recorded music as we have no pianist/organist; nevertheless our service went well. And I deliberately choose a more modern translation (no, not "The Message"!) for the readings as I want folk to listen and understand them.
Some applause at the end of a post-service voluntary is appropriate, and is the norm at Our Cathedral after Evensong.
I went to my cathedral carol service last night. Unfortunately I couldn’t hear the voluntary at the end (Marcel Dupre, Prelude and Fugue in B Major) because as soon as the choir and clergy had processed out, most of the large congregation started talking very loudly, thus drowning the organ 😡
That piece is a pig to play. I wouldn't bother in those circumstances.
I think a congregation really needs a choir to help navigate that verse.
It's tricky - the organ part rather reinforces the descant which can leave a congregation floundering.
The Chord™ in the Willcocks arrangement is only on the last verse (“Yea, Lord, we greet thee”), which is in unison, everyone singing the melody. The descant is on the previous verse (“Sing, choirs of angels”).
We’ll be doing it this Wednesday night.
Yeah - you're right; I'm getting confused.
However, the organ accompaniment to that final verse does somewhat obscure the melody - it's not sitting there on top in the way congregations are used to.
I think a congregation really needs a choir to help navigate that verse.
It's tricky - the organ part rather reinforces the descant which can leave a congregation floundering.
The Chord™ in the Willcocks arrangement is only on the last verse (“Yea, Lord, we greet thee”), which is in unison, everyone singing the melody. The descant is on the previous verse (“Sing, choirs of angels”).
We’ll be doing it this Wednesday night.
Yeah - you're right; I'm getting confused.
However, the organ accompaniment to that final verse does somewhat obscure the melody - it's not sitting there on top in the way congregations are used to.
True, but I suppose the theory is that everyone knows the melody well. And if all verses are sung, by the you get to that last verse you’ve already got six verses under your belt.
Some applause at the end of a post-service voluntary is appropriate, and is the norm at Our Cathedral after Evensong.
I went to my cathedral carol service last night. Unfortunately I couldn’t hear the voluntary at the end (Marcel Dupre, Prelude and Fugue in B Major) because as soon as the choir and clergy had processed out, most of the large congregation started talking very loudly, thus drowning the organ 😡
Most organists I know assume that the congregation will talk over the postlude/voluntary, and they plan accordingly. They treat it as “traveling music.” Liturgically, the congregation has been dismissed and sent into the world. There wasn’t a caveat: “But before you go, let’s sit back down and listen to a recital.”
Our congregation has, for Reasons that I do understand, gotten into the habit of sitting to listen to the postlude. Some like it, some really don’t, and those in charge have been looking for ways to break or at least disrupt the habit.
Yes, it would be nice if those who want to sit and listen could do so. Sometimes I see such people move to the front of the church, and sometimes a bulletin will suggest saving conversation until you’re out of the church, so that those who want to listen can.
I'm sure it is, because one day I wondered for some reason what the German word for "to mansplain" might be, and herrklären popped into my head. When I looked it up online, there it was! I guess I co-invented it? Well, let's not go nuts, I guess.
As we don't have a hall, post Mass coffee and parish business happens at the back of the church, so voluntaries are both a waste of time and an intrusion. But that doesn't stop me playing something at Christmas and Easter.
As we don't have a hall, post Mass coffee and parish business happens at the back of the church, so voluntaries are both a waste of time and an intrusion. But that doesn't stop me playing something at Christmas and Easter.
Quite right, too.
BTW, the usual congregation (apart from the choir) at Our Cathedral's weekday Evensong is often in single figures, so loud conversation is unlikely. I did, on one occasion, ask two of the official stewards to pipe down during the voluntary...
I dont know if this is the right place to ask, however .............
Hymnary.org. keeps crashing if I scroll down to look at the tunes. Are there any other users? Does it happen with them too?
Eucharist tonight will be: Hark! the glad sound (Bristol); Thou didst leave thy throne; It came upon a midnight clear (Noel) and Hark! the herald-angels sing.
Eucharist tonight will be: Hark! the glad sound (Bristol); Thou didst leave thy throne; It came upon a midnight clear (Noel) and Hark! the herald-angels sing.
That's a good selection - not a Watching Shepherd to be seen!
The one carol I abhor amongst all others is Away In A Manger - silly, saccharine pap - but I know that Our Place will sing it at the Crib Service, and probably also at Jesus' Birthday Party tomorrow morning.
On Sunday, at Another Place, my own personal bete noire was on the menu: 'Long ago prophets knew, Christ would come, born a Jew' - a carol of such banality as certainly to earn excoriation as silly pap, though others may discern beauties in it which I am unable to appreciate.
Eucharist tonight will be: Hark! the glad sound (Bristol); Thou didst leave thy throne; It came upon a midnight clear (Noel) and Hark! the herald-angels sing.
That's a good selection - not a Watching Shepherd to be seen!
The one carol I abhor amongst all others is Away In A Manger - silly, saccharine pap - but I know that Our Place will sing it at the Crib Service, and probably also at Jesus' Birthday Party tomorrow morning.
Late in life I have developed a strong loathing for "silent baby" gentle and meek carols. Have the authors not thought for a second about what was actually happening to those new parents, or the weight of the actual event of the Incarnation?
On Sunday, at Another Place, my own personal bete noire was on the menu: 'Long ago prophets knew, Christ would come, born a Jew' - a carol of such banality as certainly to earn excoriation as silly pap, though others may discern beauties in it which I am unable to appreciate.
Yeah, but it goes to PERSONENT HODIE. I'd happily sing the phone book to that.
Eucharist tonight will be: Hark! the glad sound (Bristol); Thou didst leave thy throne; It came upon a midnight clear (Noel) and Hark! the herald-angels sing.
That's a good selection - not a Watching Shepherd to be seen!
The one carol I abhor amongst all others is Away In A Manger - silly, saccharine pap - but I know that Our Place will sing it at the Crib Service, and probably also at Jesus' Birthday Party tomorrow morning.
Yeah, can't be doing with that either.
OTOH, in 1885, when it was written, 40-50% of children didn't make it to 5 years old, which puts a different spin on Bless all the dear children in thy tender care
At ours Christmas Morning. We do stuff that people who only attend once a year will know, so it's unusually traditional.
O come all ye
Angels we have heard on high
In the bleak midwinter
Silent night
Hark the herald
Usual Mass parts.
Tuba tune - Lang.
I'm just back from the Service of the Nativity - a sort of mashup of L&C and Communion. There were only 11 of us, including priest, organist and server, but we made quite a jolly noise:
Once in royal David's city (with solo piglet) - Irby Of the Father's love begotten - Piae Cantiones O little town of Bethlehem - Forest Green In the bleak midwinter - Holst A great and mighty wonder - Es ist ein' Ros entsprungen O come, all ye faithful - Adeste Fideles Silent night - Stille Nacht Hark, the herald angels sing - Mendelssohn
Note the complete absence of any crappy worship songs ... 😈
“O Come, All Ye Faithful”
“Angels We Have Heard on High”
“O Little Town of Bethlehem”
“Silent Night”
“Hark, the Herald Angels Sing”
“O Little Town” (sung to ST. LOUIS—we are Americans after all) was almost painfully slow, but that was more than balanced out by the other hymns. “O Come …” and “Hark…” were the Willcocks arrangements, and we had tympani and brass to go along with the organ. “Silent Night” was primarily with guitar.
Hymns:
O little town
It came upon the midnight clear
Silent night
O come
Mass setting: St Mark's setting - Archer
Anthem: In the bleak - Lucy Walker
Organ Widor front and back
Lovely service. As usual, the choir missed several regulars away to visit family, and gained several former members back to visit family.
The Archer is simple, short and direct - useful for the late hour
The Walker is a lovely new setting of familiar words that we enjoyed.
The second verse of 'It came upon' always raises a tear for me.
As we ended with 'Yea Lord we greet thee' the (new) church lighting faded up, moving the building from candle light to bright day light - echoing John 1. Lovely moment.
At midnight communion (We're not high enough up the candle to call it midnight mass!)
In the Bleak Midwinter - CRANHAM
It Came Upon the Midnight Clear - NOEL
O Come, All Ye Faithful - ADESTE FIDELES
And a few hours later at Christmas Day communion:
*O Come, All Ye Faithful - ADESTE FIDELES
O Little Town of Bethlehem - FOREST GREEN
Joy to the World - ANTIOCH
Hark! The Herald Angels Sing - MENDELSSOHN
Unfortunately, no organist was available for either of these services so sung to backing tracks.
* Even more unfortunately, the organ backing track used only had three verses. We were all ready to belt out Yea, Lord, we greet Thee when the music stopped! A few moments of stunned silence; many of the congregation were just about to continue A Capella when the minister said, "I think we'll leave it there" 😈
* Even more unfortunately, the organ backing track used only had three verses. We were all ready to belt out Yea, Lord, we greet Thee when the music stopped! A few moments of stunned silence; many of the congregation were just about to continue A Capella when the minister said, "I think we'll leave it there" 😈
“Come and sing the Christmas story” - Ar Hyd Y Nos.
On Christmas night all Christians sing” - Sussex Carol.
“In a byre near Bethlehem” (Wild Goose).
“Sing lullaby” - Basque tune.
“It came upon the midnight clear” - Noel.
Christmas Day Family service:
“O come, all ye faithful”.
"Come and join the celebration”.
Christmas Calypso” ("And they called his name Jesus").
"When God from heaven to earth came down” - I Saw Three Ships.
“The Bells Ring Out”.
“The holly and the ivy”.
“Joy to the world”.
As it was the birthday of a lady in the congregation, we sang Happy birthday to her before the service. We had a goodly congregation, who gave voice to the following, mostly con gusto:
Good Christians all, rejoice - In Dulci Jubilo O come, all ye faithful (sadly without The Chord) - Adeste Fideles Ding dong, merrily on high - Bransle d l'Official Love came down at Christmas - Gartan* Joy to the world - Antioch
* this didn't really work; it was the Communion hymn, and as I was the only one of the choir present, I didn't go up first for communion (as we do when the choir is there). It was in a rather high key for quiet, contemplative singing, and most people were otherwise occupied going up to the altar and coming back. It also wasn't long enough to cover everyone communicating, so the organist started it over again, and a few of us joined in, but not very convincingly!
Unfortunately, after we'd finished the second run through, the organist played O holy night. Luckily nobody joined in with that ...
Wot? Not even with the aid of a cattle-prod? (Cartman inSouth Park... ).
The usual stuff at Our Place yesterday and today, with (of course) The Birthday Song this morning. My Spy tells me that attendances have been very slightly better than last year, maybe helped by the dry weather, though the wind is bitterly cold.
As it was the birthday of a lady in the congregation, we sang Happy birthday to her before the service.
A girl in our congregation was celebrating her 12th birthday - we didn't mention this (to avoid embarrassment) but did have her light the Christmas candle.
As it was the birthday of a lady in the congregation, we sang Happy birthday to her before the service.
A girl in our congregation was celebrating her 12th birthday - we didn't mention this (to avoid embarrassment) but did have her light the Christmas candle.
At the Divine Liturgy this morning, appointed texts for the Feast of the Nativity of our Lord:
Troparion:
Your Nativity, O Christ our God, has made the light of knowledge dawn on the world, for through it those who adored the stars were taught by a star to worship you, the Sun of righteousness, and to know you the Dayspring from on high. O Lord, glory to you.
Kontakiom:
Today the Virgin gives birth to him who is above all being, and the earth offers the Cave to him whom no one can approach; Angels with Shepherds give glory, while Magi journey with a star; for to us there has been born a little Child: God before the ages.
Hymn to the Mother of God>
Magnify, O my soul, her who is greater in honour and more glorious than the hosts on high, the most pure Virgin Mother of God. It would be easier for us, because free from all danger, to keep silence in fear, while it is hard indeed, O Virgin, in love to devise songs harmoniously put together. But, O Mother, give us strength that we may fulfil our good intent.
Quite why some clergy feel the need to reduce the mystery of the Incarnation to the level of a children's tea party, I have no idea.
Bah humbug.
As much as I would cringe at singing Happy Birthday to Jesus—I don’t think I’ve ever been called on to do it—I suspect those instigating it aren’t so much meaning to reduce the mystery of the Incarnation to the level of a children’s tea party as trying to include children in a way that makes sense to them and connects the celebration of Christmas to something within their own experience. I may fault the method, but I don’t necessarily fault the intention.
We had Away in a manger last night, while I remembered John Bell's comment: "No crying he made? What's wrong with the bairn?" The rest was traditional, but well done by enthusiastic musicians.
One advantage of generally supplyng rather tradionally inclined (and usually country) parishes is that most of the nonsense mentioned by many here tends not to happen or be requested. Today was no exception to that norm, I did not take on anything last night as when you pass three score years and ten it is hard to stay awake 🤣 Like @Alan29 I tend to find post service music a bit of a non starter so only play something if they ask for it or in the more 'choral' places. As most Eucharists tend to end with a hymn it generally seems to work best to leave it at that other than great festivals. Anyway today ....
Sung Eucharist (CW trad language)
Of the Father's love (Corde natus)
Burton in F and Shaw folk Mass
Psalm 98
Joy to the world
O little town (Forest Green)
Away in a manger 🤮
Hark the herald
Mattins
Christians awake (Stockport aka Yorkshire)
usual canticles
See amid the winters snow
St Day carol (popular in the south west although I loathe it with the wretched holly holly chorus 😩)
Once in royal (Irby)
Comments
I'm very envious of all your carol services; although we'll have some lessons* and carols on Christmas Eve and Christmas Day, I don't think we have an organist who could manage The Chord™. 😢
* sadly, read in a very inferior translation.
The Church of St Michael in the White Place?
The chord's just a Bm7b5. It's the entire verse setting that's a bit of a bugger.
It's tricky - the organ part rather reinforces the descant which can leave a congregation floundering.
We’ll be doing it this Wednesday night.
I went to my cathedral carol service last night. Unfortunately I couldn’t hear the voluntary at the end (Marcel Dupre, Prelude and Fugue in B Major) because as soon as the choir and clergy had processed out, most of the large congregation started talking very loudly, thus drowning the organ 😡
We have to use recorded music as we have no pianist/organist; nevertheless our service went well. And I deliberately choose a more modern translation (no, not "The Message"!) for the readings as I want folk to listen and understand them.
That piece is a pig to play. I wouldn't bother in those circumstances.
Yeah - you're right; I'm getting confused.
However, the organ accompaniment to that final verse does somewhat obscure the melody - it's not sitting there on top in the way congregations are used to.
Most organists I know assume that the congregation will talk over the postlude/voluntary, and they plan accordingly. They treat it as “traveling music.” Liturgically, the congregation has been dismissed and sent into the world. There wasn’t a caveat: “But before you go, let’s sit back down and listen to a recital.”
Our congregation has, for Reasons that I do understand, gotten into the habit of sitting to listen to the postlude. Some like it, some really don’t, and those in charge have been looking for ways to break or at least disrupt the habit.
Yes, it would be nice if those who want to sit and listen could do so. Sometimes I see such people move to the front of the church, and sometimes a bulletin will suggest saving conversation until you’re out of the church, so that those who want to listen can.
I'm sure it is, because one day I wondered for some reason what the German word for "to mansplain" might be, and herrklären popped into my head. When I looked it up online, there it was! I guess I co-invented it? Well, let's not go nuts, I guess.
Quite right, too.
BTW, the usual congregation (apart from the choir) at Our Cathedral's weekday Evensong is often in single figures, so loud conversation is unlikely. I did, on one occasion, ask two of the official stewards to pipe down during the voluntary...
Hymnary.org. keeps crashing if I scroll down to look at the tunes. Are there any other users? Does it happen with them too?
That's a good selection - not a Watching Shepherd to be seen!
The one carol I abhor amongst all others is Away In A Manger - silly, saccharine pap - but I know that Our Place will sing it at the Crib Service, and probably also at Jesus' Birthday Party tomorrow morning.
Late in life I have developed a strong loathing for "silent baby" gentle and meek carols. Have the authors not thought for a second about what was actually happening to those new parents, or the weight of the actual event of the Incarnation?
Yeah, but it goes to PERSONENT HODIE. I'd happily sing the phone book to that.
Yeah, can't be doing with that either.
OTOH, in 1885, when it was written, 40-50% of children didn't make it to 5 years old, which puts a different spin on Bless all the dear children in thy tender care
O come all ye
Angels we have heard on high
In the bleak midwinter
Silent night
Hark the herald
Usual Mass parts.
Tuba tune - Lang.
Once in royal David's city (with solo piglet) - Irby
Of the Father's love begotten - Piae Cantiones
O little town of Bethlehem - Forest Green
In the bleak midwinter - Holst
A great and mighty wonder - Es ist ein' Ros entsprungen
O come, all ye faithful - Adeste Fideles
Silent night - Stille Nacht
Hark, the herald angels sing - Mendelssohn
Note the complete absence of any crappy worship songs ... 😈
“O Come, All Ye Faithful”
“Angels We Have Heard on High”
“O Little Town of Bethlehem”
“Silent Night”
“Hark, the Herald Angels Sing”
“O Little Town” (sung to ST. LOUIS—we are Americans after all) was almost painfully slow, but that was more than balanced out by the other hymns. “O Come …” and “Hark…” were the Willcocks arrangements, and we had tympani and brass to go along with the organ. “Silent Night” was primarily with guitar.
Hymns:
O little town
It came upon the midnight clear
Silent night
O come
Mass setting: St Mark's setting - Archer
Anthem: In the bleak - Lucy Walker
Organ Widor front and back
Lovely service. As usual, the choir missed several regulars away to visit family, and gained several former members back to visit family.
The Archer is simple, short and direct - useful for the late hour
The Walker is a lovely new setting of familiar words that we enjoyed.
The second verse of 'It came upon' always raises a tear for me.
As we ended with 'Yea Lord we greet thee' the (new) church lighting faded up, moving the building from candle light to bright day light - echoing John 1. Lovely moment.
Heron
We sang:
It came upon the midnight clear
Joy to the world
In the bleak midwinter
O come all ye faithful
We sang a metrical Gloria to Ode to joy, and a metrical Sanctus and Benedictus to The Ash Grove.
At midnight communion (We're not high enough up the candle to call it midnight mass!)
In the Bleak Midwinter - CRANHAM
It Came Upon the Midnight Clear - NOEL
O Come, All Ye Faithful - ADESTE FIDELES
And a few hours later at Christmas Day communion:
*O Come, All Ye Faithful - ADESTE FIDELES
O Little Town of Bethlehem - FOREST GREEN
Joy to the World - ANTIOCH
Hark! The Herald Angels Sing - MENDELSSOHN
Unfortunately, no organist was available for either of these services so sung to backing tracks.
* Even more unfortunately, the organ backing track used only had three verses. We were all ready to belt out Yea, Lord, we greet Thee when the music stopped! A few moments of stunned silence; many of the congregation were just about to continue A Capella when the minister said, "I think we'll leave it there" 😈
“Come and sing the Christmas story” - Ar Hyd Y Nos.
On Christmas night all Christians sing” - Sussex Carol.
“In a byre near Bethlehem” (Wild Goose).
“Sing lullaby” - Basque tune.
“It came upon the midnight clear” - Noel.
Christmas Day Family service:
“O come, all ye faithful”.
"Come and join the celebration”.
Christmas Calypso” ("And they called his name Jesus").
"When God from heaven to earth came down” - I Saw Three Ships.
“The Bells Ring Out”.
“The holly and the ivy”.
“Joy to the world”.
Lovely organ pieces.
Introit Prelude on TheHolly and the Ivy - Sumsion.
Voluntary Piece D'Orgue BWV 572.
Mass Setting: St Helen's Service Forbes L'Estrange
Anthem: Away in a manger - Bersweden
Hymns:
Jesus Christ the Lord is born
While Shepherds
See amid the winter's snow
Hark!
Time now for duck.
Merry Christmas All
Heron
Good Christians all, rejoice - In Dulci Jubilo
O come, all ye faithful (sadly without The Chord) - Adeste Fideles
Ding dong, merrily on high - Bransle d l'Official
Love came down at Christmas - Gartan*
Joy to the world - Antioch
* this didn't really work; it was the Communion hymn, and as I was the only one of the choir present, I didn't go up first for communion (as we do when the choir is there). It was in a rather high key for quiet, contemplative singing, and most people were otherwise occupied going up to the altar and coming back. It also wasn't long enough to cover everyone communicating, so the organist started it over again, and a few of us joined in, but not very convincingly!
Unfortunately, after we'd finished the second run through, the organist played O holy night.
The usual stuff at Our Place yesterday and today, with (of course) The Birthday Song this morning. My Spy tells me that attendances have been very slightly better than last year, maybe helped by the dry weather, though the wind is bitterly cold.
A girl in our congregation was celebrating her 12th birthday - we didn't mention this (to avoid embarrassment) but did have her light the Christmas candle.
Very thoughtful of you!
Troparion:
Your Nativity, O Christ our God, has made the light of knowledge dawn on the world, for through it those who adored the stars were taught by a star to worship you, the Sun of righteousness, and to know you the Dayspring from on high. O Lord, glory to you.
Kontakiom:
Today the Virgin gives birth to him who is above all being, and the earth offers the Cave to him whom no one can approach; Angels with Shepherds give glory, while Magi journey with a star; for to us there has been born a little Child: God before the ages.
Hymn to the Mother of God>
Magnify, O my soul, her who is greater in honour and more glorious than the hosts on high, the most pure Virgin Mother of God. It would be easier for us, because free from all danger, to keep silence in fear, while it is hard indeed, O Virgin, in love to devise songs harmoniously put together. But, O Mother, give us strength that we may fulfil our good intent.
Quite why some clergy feel the need to reduce the mystery of the Incarnation to the level of a children's tea party, I have no idea.
Bah humbug.
Even though they woke him up...?
Sung Eucharist (CW trad language)
Of the Father's love (Corde natus)
Burton in F and Shaw folk Mass
Psalm 98
Joy to the world
O little town (Forest Green)
Away in a manger 🤮
Hark the herald
Mattins
Christians awake (Stockport aka Yorkshire)
usual canticles
See amid the winters snow
St Day carol (popular in the south west although I loathe it with the wretched holly holly chorus 😩)
Once in royal (Irby)
O come all ye faithful
See amid the winter’s snow
Away in a manger
Hark the herald
No organist, but good backing tracks used, including descants and That Chord.
Also accompanied by the jingling of small bells on a dog’s collar.