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Ship of Fools: St Mary on Paddington Green, Little Venice, London


imageShip of Fools: St Mary on Paddington Green, Little Venice, London

Sermon a useful spiritual tool in a restless worship atmosphere

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Comments

  • Box PewBox Pew Shipmate
    edited May 2021
    I think this is the church that appears in this advert.

    [Edited link to go directly to YouTube clip. ABR]
  • I'm a bit surprised to hear that they're offering refreshments. How was social distancing managed? And what about handling the mugs/cups/plates?
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    I was wondering about distribution at communion. Was the cup offered, or mini-cups, or not at all.

    BTW, did you pretty little Polly Perkins in the congregation?
  • The *current normal* in the C of E is Communion in one kind only, and NO CUP.

    AIUI most clergy do in fact consecrate some wine, but consume it themselves.

    It's good that the church has children in its congregation - ours are still missing IYSWIM, and haven't yet returned...
  • Alan29Alan29 Shipmate
    The *current normal* in the C of E is Communion in one kind only, and NO CUP.

    AIUI most clergy do in fact consecrate some wine, but consume it themselves.

    It's good that the church has children in its congregation - ours are still missing IYSWIM, and haven't yet returned...

    The return of Sunday school is on a par with the return of congregational singing for bringing life back to our worship.
  • Alan29 wrote: »
    The *current normal* in the C of E is Communion in one kind only, and NO CUP.

    AIUI most clergy do in fact consecrate some wine, but consume it themselves.

    It's good that the church has children in its congregation - ours are still missing IYSWIM, and haven't yet returned...

    The return of Sunday school is on a par with the return of congregational singing for bringing life back to our worship.

    Indeed. I look forward to the day - maybe this summer?

    A few of our younger folks have been in evidence from time to time, but with nothing like the former regularity or numbers...

    Re Paddington Green, an attendance of 60 in these straitened times - and at silly o'clock in the morning! - is not bad at all.
  • My wife used to teach in the school associated with this church and has a very high opinion of the Vicar.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    Alan29 wrote: »
    The *current normal* in the C of E is Communion in one kind only, and NO CUP.

    AIUI most clergy do in fact consecrate some wine, but consume it themselves.

    It's good that the church has children in its congregation - ours are still missing IYSWIM, and haven't yet returned...

    The return of Sunday school is on a par with the return of congregational singing for bringing life back to our worship.

    Thank you for all that. For some time now, we've been able to consecrate a cup for the presiding priest, and mini-cups for everyone else. Not the ideal of course, but at least it's available and is safe.

    A new infection has led to changes in a range of rules here. The infected man had been at a wide range of locations and then there's the flow-on effect. It looks as if singing is now banned again.
  • I wonder if the MWer didn't mention the chalice (*wee cuppies* are Not Allowed At All in the C of E) simply because Communion in one kind is now the norm?

    BTW, St Mary's sister church - St Saviour, Warwick Avenue - is an interesting contrast architecturally, being a 1970s replacement of a great Gothic barn.


  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    I had not realised that they were banned.
  • Come to think of it, I've never seen wee cuppies used in an Episcopal church. However, the "breakaway" Anglican church reported on here had an interesting way of doing communion, I thought.
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    Come to think of it, I've never seen wee cuppies used in an Episcopal church.
    I haven’t actually witnessed it, but I’m aware of some Episcopal churches that have used them during the pandemic. I think I’ve even heard tell of one or two that have used the pre-packaged kind.

    Yes, my mind was blown too.

  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    The wee cuppies St Sanity is using are placed in wooden trays made to take them. Each then gets a dripper of ready-mixed wine and water. The trays are placed on a side table and covered with some plain napkins until the altar is being prepared. They are then are placed on the altar and the covers removed. Some of us like to try and get at least one of the legs of each tray onto the corporal. As I said, it's not ideal, but does allow communion in both kinds with as much safety as possible.

    In the pre-covid days, we'd sometimes go to a weekday service in a church where mini-cups were available for any who wished to take them. They too had been on the altar for the Great Thanksgiving and consecration. One communicant always took one, but when the cup was offered to her , she'd tap her mini-cup against it. Not in any rubric I know of.
  • SpikeSpike Ecclesiantics & MW Host, Admin Emeritus
    There’s a rather strange reply to the question how full was the building?

    “ It’s not a big church, and there were quite a few in the gallery, so I would say 60 in all, if you include those children who took communion”

    Why would children not be included? They are still part of the congregation regardless of age and regardless of whether they receive communion.
  • edited May 2021
    It wasn't specifically mentioned in the report, but I suspect that the children remained in their separate Sunday school room until communion time, at which time they entered the church to receive communion. The reporter did say that the children were meeting "out of sight." Thus they would not strictly speaking have been part of the congregation -- reciting the prayers, hearing scripture read and sermon preached, etc.
  • St GermanSt German Shipmate
    I do not doubt for a moment the sincerity of this congregation, or its rightful place in the spectrum of the catholic church.

    Any more than I would doubt the same for those congregations at the other end of the spectrum which you would be hard put to identify as Anglican - unless you are very observant and astute to see the tell-tail signs like the minister being referred to as the vicar.

    But I do wonder how the tourist/visitor/seeker who is looking for recognisably Anglican worship is supposed to fare. Are we now the ultimate ecumenical church? (I fear this comment may be considered by some to be inappropriate - but is it?)
  • PomonaPomona Shipmate
    St German wrote: »
    I do not doubt for a moment the sincerity of this congregation, or its rightful place in the spectrum of the catholic church.

    Any more than I would doubt the same for those congregations at the other end of the spectrum which you would be hard put to identify as Anglican - unless you are very observant and astute to see the tell-tail signs like the minister being referred to as the vicar.

    But I do wonder how the tourist/visitor/seeker who is looking for recognisably Anglican worship is supposed to fare. Are we now the ultimate ecumenical church? (I fear this comment may be considered by some to be inappropriate - but is it?)

    It does sound like they were using the Missal, which is Very Naughty Indeed imo. I do largely agree with you - and I would say that there is already plenty of precedent for using rites other than Novus Ordo within the RCC and the wider Catholic Church, so an A-C church does not need to use Novus Ordo to be part of that.
  • It is perhaps mildly interesting to note that one of the Societies supporting Anglo-Catholic parishes within the Church of England publishes a neat little booklet for congregational use at the Eucharist.

    It follows Common Worship Order One quite closely, but inserts one or two of the more Carflick bits (such as *Pray, my brothers and sisters...* ) which are AIUI allowed to be used.

    (They also publish a *Mass* booklet, which is the RCC service pure and simple, for those Anglican parishes which have decided to be Naughty).

    IIRC, +Chartres of London decreed at one time that only the C of E service, with some small additions, was to be used in his Diocese, so I wonder if, in fact, St Mary's is being obedient?



  • PomonaPomona Shipmate
    It is perhaps mildly interesting to note that one of the Societies supporting Anglo-Catholic parishes within the Church of England publishes a neat little booklet for congregational use at the Eucharist.

    It follows Common Worship Order One quite closely, but inserts one or two of the more Carflick bits (such as *Pray, my brothers and sisters...* ) which are AIUI allowed to be used.

    (They also publish a *Mass* booklet, which is the RCC service pure and simple, for those Anglican parishes which have decided to be Naughty).

    IIRC, +Chartres of London decreed at one time that only the C of E service, with some small additions, was to be used in his Diocese, so I wonder if, in fact, St Mary's is being obedient?



    Oh I believe I have come across that first booklet being used at Christ Church in Eastbourne. It was, as you say, pretty much Common Worship but just with some extra 'other words [that] may be used'. It was recognisably Common Worship and not the Roman Missal, which is good enough for me - I wonder if it's indicative of the more flexible/liberal end of Trad A-Cs. Christ Church would certainly fall under that category (and is a church well worth being Mystery Worshipped in its own right if anyone is nearby - when I visited the walls were stacked with crates of food for their food bank right up to the Stations of the Cross, which made for a poignant image).
  • Let's limit this discussion to the service in question at St Mary's, Paddington Green, please.

    @Amanda B Reckondwyth
    Lead Editor, Mystery Worship
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