Ship of Fools: St Stephen Byzantine Catholic Cathedral, Phoenix, Arizona, USA

The Mystery Worshipper

Ship of Fools: St Stephen Byzantine Catholic Cathedral, Phoenix, Arizona, USA

Palm Sunday procession, divine liturgy, incense galore, and communion delivered on a spoon

Read the full Mystery Worshipper report here

Gamma Gamaliel

Sounds lovely. 'When in Constantinople ...?' The liturgy may be Byzantine but the Eastern Rite Catholics are in communion with Rome not Constantinople - as your report indicates.

It's interesting that neither Rome nor the Orthodox officially practice 'open communion' but this church does - so in effect it is not following the 'when in Rome' or 'when in Constantinople' model in that respect.

There are all sorts of anomalies around that. Rome will offer communion to Orthodox Christians but Orthodox Christians are not supposed to accept. I'd love it if we could all get round a table and sort these things out. The schism with the Oriental Orthodox too.

Some Eastern Orthodox will admit Orientals to communion. Practice seems to vary across the various jurisdictions.

As indeed, so it does also within churches in communion with Rome.

Alan29

There was an agreement between Rome and the Syria Church permitting intercommunion when one's own church wasn't available. I hope it still applies.

Amanda B Reckondwyth

Gamma Gamaliel wrote: »

The liturgy may be Byzantine but the Eastern Rite Catholics are in communion with Rome not Constantinople. . . . It's interesting that neither Rome nor the Orthodox officially practice 'open communion' but this church does - so in effect it is not following the 'when in Rome' or 'when in Constantinople' model in that respect.

I only meant my remark to pertain to the choice of green vestments for Palm Sunday.

Nick Tamen

Amanda B Reckondwyth wrote: »

Gamma Gamaliel wrote: »

The liturgy may be Byzantine but the Eastern Rite Catholics are in communion with Rome not Constantinople. . . . It's interesting that neither Rome nor the Orthodox officially practice 'open communion' but this church does - so in effect it is not following the 'when in Rome' or 'when in Constantinople' model in that respect.

I only meant my remark to pertain to the choice of green vestments for Palm Sunday.

My understanding is that the use in the Byzantine rite of green on Palm Sunday is directly related to the color of the palms.

Interestingly, green is also used on Pentecost, as a symbol of new life.

Amanda B Reckondwyth

So "When in Byzantium, do as the Byzantines do."

Nick Tamen

Indeed.

And somehow this has sparked my internal audio track to switch to “Istanbul (Not Constantinople)” by They Might Be Giants, or The Four Lads, if you prefer.

Amanda B Reckondwyth

An oldie but goodie.

Take me back to Constantinople.
No, you can't go back to Constantinople.
Now it's Istanbul, not Constantinople
Why did Constantinople get the works?
That's nobody's business but the Turks!

I confess I was thinking of it all Palm Sunday!

Nick Tamen

Great minds!

Forthview

In Poland Pentecost Sunday is known popularly as Green Sunday.The reason for this is said to refer to the fact that people go out into the green countryside and ring back greenery.

Ex_Organist

I notice that the photo of the Palm Sunday procession shows 5 acolytes vested plus one Deacon and the Rector (vested as a Mitred Archpriest). There appears to be another figure behind the Rector wearing a cassock, but no sign of a vested Bishop.

Bishops Finger

The vestments pictured are certainly a most beautiful and vibrant shade of green! What do they use for ferial Sundays?

Amanda B Reckondwyth

Ex_Organist wrote: »

I notice . . . 5 acolytes vested plus one Deacon and the Rector (vested as a Mitred Archpriest). There appears to be . . . no sign of a vested Bishop.

As I said, no one was identified and I didn't know who was who. I was merely taking my best guess. I wouldn't know a vested bishop from a mitred archpriest (obviously).

Terry Tee

Where did the Antiochian Orthodox go? You mention they were the original occupants. I would be surprised if they had disappeared in fact I would expect them to have grown because down in Tucson they are on a roll. If I remember correctly they are part of the OCA which has attracted many converts.

Bishops Finger

Terry Tee wrote: »

Where did the Antiochian Orthodox go? You mention they were the original occupants. I would be surprised if they had disappeared in fact I would expect them to have grown because down in Tucson they are on a roll. If I remember correctly they are part of the OCA which has attracted many converts.

Is this the church you're thinking of?

https://www.stgeorgeaz.org/

The website appears to be up-to-date.

Terry Tee

Thanks, yes it is. I see they have moved further West (and upmarket). The new church is .... contemporary.

Gamma Gamaliel

The Antiochians are not part of the OCA.

They are on a roll in the US most certainly.

Sadly, they do seem to be picking up some converts with rather extreme views.

I'm involved with the Antiochian Archdiocese over here in the UK.

AZKNIGHTWOLF

I'm sure they hand a coffee hour. I grew up in this church and after every service had a coffee and donut Hour. Us kids would go to Sunday School first, then get our donuts. We got to hang around with our friends until our parents decided to head on home. On Mother's Day, the Father's would make a pancake breakfast for their wife and kids. Easter, we opened up our newly blessed baskets for anyone who wanted to try something out of our basket.

Coacao

@Gamma Gamaliel my son in Canada has just recently converted to the Orthodoxy (Antiochian) and was trying to find a church here in Scotland where he will be studying...they are still far a few between but such amazing growth in NA. The Ortho Bros are not doing the movement(?) any favours. Much of my family is Bysatine Catholic.

Forthview

There is a Byzantine Catholic church in Edinburgh as well as an Orthodox church. Not sure which jurisdiction it is affiliated to but there is also ,as I learned just yesterday, a resident Orthodox bishop.

Augustine the Aleut

My guess is that it is part of the (growing) Ukrainian Catholic Exarchate of Great Britain--they have a parish of Our Lady of Pochayiv and Saint Andrew in Edinburgh.

Forthview

That is referring to the Ukrainian Catholic church in Edinburgh.
I think that the building was earlier a Presbyterian church and for some reason there was no iconostasis built,so one has an excellent view of the altar during the celebration of the liturgy.
Behind the altar there is a huge painting of St Andrew's church in Kiev
which must have brought back many memories to exiled Ukrainians.
It must be at least 30 years since I last visited the church.

The Greek Orthodox church was much smaller ,meeting many years ago in a chapel which belonged to the Dominican order and then in a side chapel of an AngloCatholic church in Edinburgh, before moving to a former small former church school and then to a former Presbyterian church.It had a long high pulpit such as one sometimes sees in old Presbyterian churches and it has been cleverly converted into an iconostasis
The church is part of the Archdiocese of Thyateira,but I don't kn ow which jurisdiction it belongs to.

Ex_Organist

Coacao wrote: »

@Gamma Gamaliel my son in Canada has just recently converted to the Orthodoxy (Antiochian) and was trying to find a church here in Scotland where he will be studying...they are still far a few between but such amazing growth in NA. The Ortho Bros are not doing the movement(?) any favours. Much of my family is Bysatine Catholic.

The Archdiocese of Thyateira (Patriarchate of Constantinople) provides the majority of communities in Scotland. These are listed here: https://www.thyateira.org.uk/category/archdiocese/communities/scotland/ There are a few other communities (mainly Romanian and Russian).