Purgatory: Oops - your Trump presidency discussion thread.

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  • Gramps49 wrote: »
    Wizard of Id seems to capture the mood of the country today.

    Trump's list of friends would fit on a Post-It note (one of the small ones).
  • Gramps49 wrote: »
    NBC is reporting that Mayor Bower of Washington DC has ordered her city employees to paint BLACK LIVES MATTER on 12th Ave, the one leading up to the White House. In addition, I understand the plaza where trump ordered peaceful demonstrators to be tear-gassed and dispursed so he could walk to St. James Church for his petty photo op has been renamed Black Lives Matter Plaza.

    This morning he comes out to tout the unexpected job gains* for May saying, George Floyd is smailing down on [him]. Blasphemous.

    Well, he's a despicable, lying shit for claiming George Floyd is smiling on DT and certainly offensive to his family and his memory but I don't get the blasphemy charge.
    And the list of Trump's opposition continues to grow. Past Secretaries of Defense have panned him, past Joint Chief of Staffs have derided him, Senators are bailing on him, friends in the House of Representatives are being voted out. Wizard of Id seems to capture the mood of the country today.

    Did I mention more Confederate Statues throughout the South are coming down today?

    It was Thomas Jefferson that said he thought the United States should have a Revolution every 20 years. This might be one of them.

    *Personally, I think the Bureau of Labor statistics are suspect, considering who is the Commissioner of the BLS. William W. Beach is a political hack of DJT. Moreover, I expect there will be a downward revision towards the end of June or July for the May numbers.

    Lots of good news there but it seems like a trickle and may amount to too little to get him out.

    Surely someone in BLS with access to the real data could release the true figures if different, and shame anyone officially misrepresenting about them.
  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    The Lincoln Project's new advertisement: America or Trump?

    Wow. Just wow. Both barrels. In the face. Wow.

    Sorry, not buying it. There's no way that someone who was cool with the Republican Party as the party of Jesse Helms and Pat Robertson can suddenly claim to believe that Trump's bible-stunt was a step too far.

  • I hate to tell you this, the BLS is not lying. Canada also had unexpected job growth in May. Even more surprising and counter-intuitive, in Canada's case, at least, a large proportion were full-time positions. I don't know what to make of it (and I spent 20 years in institutional banking) and so far I haven't heard a plausible explanation from anyone.
  • W HyattW Hyatt Shipmate
    Offhand, I'd guess it's because public health guidelines are being widely ignored.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    @Crœsos thank you for the correction. I have only been to DC a couple of times so am not sure of the layout of the streets.

  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    I hate to tell you this, the BLS is not lying. Canada also had unexpected job growth in May. Even more surprising and counter-intuitive, in Canada's case, at least, a large proportion were full-time positions. I don't know what to make of it (and I spent 20 years in institutional banking) and so far I haven't heard a plausible explanation from anyone.

    @W Hyatt probably has the right idea about certain jurisdictions reopening. A lot of the job growth has happened in sectors most likely to reopen. And this isn't good news as such, more along the lines of not as bad as we'd feared news. "The unemployment rate isn't as far above 13% as we thought it might be" isn't really that good, considering it was under 4% for most of the last two years.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    And there is a substantial group of people who have just given up trying to find a job, anywhere from 4 to 10% more.
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    And there is a substantial group of people who have just given up trying to find a job, anywhere from 4 to 10% more.

    That's why I usually use the employment-to-population ratio rather than the U3 unemployment numbers. It captures the whole population whether they're looking for work or not.

    To illustrate this, here are the last 13 months of the U.S. employment-to-population ratio for the civilian non-institutional population aged 25-54. I use those age brackets (often referred to as "core working age") because they're less affected by government policy changes over the long term, like granting more generous/stingier college benefits, having a draft, or raising/lowering the retirement age.

    2019
    May 79.9%
    Jun 79.5%
    Jul79.1%
    Aug 79.7%
    Sep 80.5%
    Oct 80.7%
    Nov 80.7%
    Dec 80.5%

    2020
    Jan 80.2%
    Feb 80.3%
    Mar 79.5%
    Apr 69.8%
    May 71.5%


    All numbers from bls.gov. The civilian non-institutional population aged 25-54 is currently about 126 million people, to give you an idea of how many folks we're talking about here.
  • Dave WDave W Shipmate
    For comparison, in the employment collapse during the global financial crisis it took about two years for that percentage to fall 5%, from 80% to 75% - only half as far as it fell in just the one month from March to April.
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    The drop-off and bounce are similar if we look at civilian non-institutional population aged 18-64. That demographic group currently represents 197 million people.

    May 2019 73.5%
    Apr 2020 62.7%
    May 2020 64.6%

    The percentages are lower because a significant number of this group are in college or have taken early retirement, but the magnitude of the drop is on par with the core 25-54 group.
  • Crœsos wrote: »
    I hate to tell you this, the BLS is not lying. Canada also had unexpected job growth in May. Even more surprising and counter-intuitive, in Canada's case, at least, a large proportion were full-time positions. I don't know what to make of it (and I spent 20 years in institutional banking) and so far I haven't heard a plausible explanation from anyone.

    @W Hyatt probably has the right idea about certain jurisdictions reopening. A lot of the job growth has happened in sectors most likely to reopen. And this isn't good news as such, more along the lines of not as bad as we'd feared news. "The unemployment rate isn't as far above 13% as we thought it might be" isn't really that good, considering it was under 4% for most of the last two years.

    Well, that rationale doesn't apply to Canada. The growth wasn't just month on month after the initial shutdowns, 14 March for Ontario. And, as spotty as the Canadian shutdown has been (i.e., by province and territory individually, as is our constitutional wont), there has been an almost uniform strictness, whether in areas strongly hit (e.g., Ontario), and those lightly touched (e.g., Atlantic provinces), mutatis mutandis. I won't attempt to explain what's happening in the US, but your figures and explanations have no purchase here.
  • As for Lutherans, we generally get St. Whatsits or Concordia--Lutherans have no imagination, and may have as many as three churches in the same town with the same name (at which point we start referring to "Old Trinity" and the like).

    Cross and Crown is a particularly Lutheran church name, is it not?
  • mousethief wrote: »
    As for Lutherans, we generally get St. Whatsits or Concordia--Lutherans have no imagination, and may have as many as three churches in the same town with the same name (at which point we start referring to "Old Trinity" and the like).

    Cross and Crown is a particularly Lutheran church name, is it not?
    Interesting that Cross and Crown was one of the distinctively Lutheran church names I thought of too—aside from Concordia, of course, or Reformation. And yes, @Pigwidgeon, I know of ELCA congregations named Concordia.

  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    I hate to tell you this, the BLS is not lying. Canada also had unexpected job growth in May. Even more surprising and counter-intuitive, in Canada's case, at least, a large proportion were full-time positions. I don't know what to make of it (and I spent 20 years in institutional banking) and so far I haven't heard a plausible explanation from anyone.

    Funny, the BLS now admits that it "miscalculated" [read tinkered with] the May numbers. Story here. They are now saying the unemployment rate is closer to 17%.
  • I thought the Cross and Crown was a pub.
  • :open_mouth:

    What complete, and utter, claptrap, balderdash, and fruitloopery. The man can't even put together a coherent sentence.

  • SarasaSarasa All Saints Host
    That's why I asked about why people weren't trying to remove him from office in some sort of discreet way. That press conference sounds like the sort of stuff I'd expect someone in a care home with dementia to come out with.
  • Dave WDave W Shipmate
    I don't think there is any discreet way to remove the president of the United States from office. Someone's bound to notice.
  • SarasaSarasa All Saints Host
    Dave W wrote: »
    I don't think there is any discreet way to remove the president of the United States from office. Someone's bound to notice.

    Are you sure? Like the UK I'm beginning to think it would all function much better if you got rid of the president/PM.
  • Dave WDave W Shipmate
    Yes, I'm quite sure someone would notice if Trump were removed from the presidency.
  • Gramps49 - the article hedged its bets on whether there was political interference the BLS's miscalculation. Thoughts?
  • W HyattW Hyatt Shipmate
    edited June 2020
    I'd guess that the odds are in favor of incompetence:

    "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity" (Hanlon's razor)
  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    W Hyatt wrote: »
    I'd guess that the odds are in favor of incompetence:

    "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity" (Hanlon's razor)

    Ah, but "sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice" (Grey's Law)
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Gramps49 - the article hedged its bets on whether there was political interference the BLS's miscalculation. Thoughts?

    There seems to be something there, reports are just coming out. I imagine as more people look into the calculations there would be more information forthcoming.

    Saw a meme this morning with the new fencing around the White House. It has a new name: Chicken Coup.
  • Here's an interesting article that appeared in The American Conservative, comparing Trump and Leonid Brezhnev.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Clinton's question about Bush Sr. was "Is your life better than it was four years ago?" Biden needs to keep saying something like this anytime he speaks to the public IMHO.
  • Gramps49 wrote: »
    Clinton's question about Bush Sr. was "Is your life better than it was four years ago?" Biden needs to keep saying something like this anytime he speaks to the public IMHO.

    Risky.

    The only people that slogan would be targeted towards are people who would consider voting Trump or who would consider not voting at all.

    It makes you wonder if Biden could/would have been able to have done anything to prevent life being worse now.
  • Simon ToadSimon Toad Shipmate
    edited June 2020
    How about: Is America really greater now than it was four years ago? C'mon. Let's get serious about this. It's time to get back to work. Together.

    Then cut it up into two or three catchphrases.
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate, Glory
    ..
    Ooh, I do love it when real life follows theory. :lol:

    Hmmm...I think the pleasure of that depends on *which* theory...
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    The Lincoln Projects new ad Commander or Coward? General Mattis earned his spurs on the battlefield, DJT earned his spurs in a "doctor's" office.

    It now appears that when the protestors were approaching the White House last week, Donnie shut off the lights and hid in the bunker. He was not taken to the bunker involuntarily, he wanted to go.

    Question: Since the street in front of the White House is has now been designated Black Lives Matter Plaza, does it mean Trump's address is now 1600 Black Lives Matter Plaza? Or is it still 1600 Pennsylvania Ave? Curious minds what to know.

    I understand there is a petition before Mayor de Blasio to rename the street in front of Trump Tower in NYC President Barrack H. Obama St and ordering all buildings between 56th and 57th streets--where Trump Tower stands-- to have the address: 725 President Barack H. Obama Avenue, New York, NY 10022. Poetic justice, or is this getting a little vindictive?
  • Who says that justice can't be vindictive?
  • BoogieBoogie Heaven Host
    Who says that justice can't be vindictive?

    Good question 🤔

  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    George Conway, one of the founders of The Lincoln Project tweeted over the weekend that djt was looking for a new campaign slogan. He decided to help by soliciting suggestions. Here are some of them. There 5,000 plus tweets so I don't hold it against you if you don't go through all of them.
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    edited June 2020
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    Question: Since the street in front of the White House is has now been designated Black Lives Matter Plaza, does it mean Trump's address is now 1600 Black Lives Matter Plaza? Or is it still 1600 Pennsylvania Ave? Curious minds what to know.

    Sadly no. Pennsylvania Avenue is still Pennsylvania Avenue. What was renamed was 16th Street NW between H Street and L Street. 16th Street NW is where the 16 in 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue comes from. Sadly American addresses require a numerical indicator, or the White House would be at Black Lives Matter-hundred Pennsylvania Avenue. Doesn't quite roll off the tongue.
  • Crœsos wrote: »
    Sadly American addresses require a numerical indicator, or the White House would be at Black Lives Matter-hundred Pennsylvania Avenue. Doesn't quite roll off the tongue.

    But not all cities base their address numbers on the cross streets. (Phoenix, I'm happy to say, pretty much does.) For instance, Trump Tower's address in New York is ‎721 Fifth Avenue, but it's located on Fifth Avenue between 56th and 57th Streets.

    What drove me crazy living in New York (specifically Manhattan, I can't speak of the other boroughs), is the inconsistency in numbers between one street or avenue and the next. 721 Sixth Avenue, for instance, is between 23rd and 24th Streets.

    I do wish the section of Pennsylvania Avenue in front of the White House could be changed to Black Lives Matter Avenue. All of the White House letterhead could have the old address Sharpied out and the new address written in.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    I am seriously thinking of sending a postcard to the White House with just the line: YOU'RE FIRED. I will probably do it after the election.


  • ...

    It makes you wonder if Biden could/would have been able to have done anything to prevent life being worse now.

    Surely you mean President Hillary R. Clinton, and yes, absolutely, life would have been better. Shee-it, Billy Bob, life would have been better with a Muppet at the Resolute desk.

    And I now want to see "We were never that scared" ads/swag/merch from Biden EVERYWHERE. :killingme:
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate, Glory
    Why does Hillary qualify as a Muppet? And BTW: Muppets are very popular.
  • Penny SPenny S Shipmate
    I'm not sure if this is the place, but I have been sent by an otherwise reasonable source, as if it is of some value, a link to a letter to Trump from a R Catholic Archbishop by the name of Vigano, in which he addresses the problem of the eternal war between good and evil, as manifested by the spread of covid-19 and the unrest on the streets, and claims Trump to be on the side of good. It is full of things I would usually identify as markers of having a completely doolally adherence to conspiracy theories. Oddly placed Capital Letters, slighting of Masonry, fear of a global plot to impose a new world order, and so on. It is widely distributed on the net, always referring back to the dubious source I was sent a link to, which I am not going to include here.
    It does seem unconnected to Vigano's previous activities as nuncio, exposer of homosexual and abusive activities within the RC church heirarchy and opposer of Pope Francis, which seem, from what I can make out, though not driven by attitudes I would share, sane.
  • EutychusEutychus Shipmate
    The text of the letter is here.

    I'm not an expert, but these appear to be the views of one outspoken maverick cardinal who has a track record of outspoken statements and not the official RC line.
  • Penny SPenny S Shipmate
    Thank you. I couldn't find any site yesterday which I would have felt confident to link to.
  • Golden Key wrote: »
    Why does Hillary qualify as a Muppet? And BTW: Muppets are very popular.

    I think they mean that a Muppet would have made a better President than Trump. Personally, I think that choosing which Muppet to be President is difficult. I don't think I could vote for Miss Piggy, for instance, having already experienced a narcissist and prima donna in the Oval Office. I think the grump guys on the balcony are more legislative material than executives. I guess Beaker would at least listen to the scientists.
  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    Simon Toad wrote: »
    Golden Key wrote: »
    Why does Hillary qualify as a Muppet? And BTW: Muppets are very popular.

    I think they mean that a Muppet would have made a better President than Trump. Personally, I think that choosing which Muppet to be President is difficult. I don't think I could vote for Miss Piggy, for instance, having already experienced a narcissist and prima donna in the Oval Office. I think the grump guys on the balcony are more legislative material than executives. I guess Beaker would at least listen to the scientists.

    Vote Animal!
  • Penny SPenny S Shipmate
    And from the comments below the line, I'm not sure about that one now.
  • Robert ArminRobert Armin Shipmate, Glory
    Golden Key wrote: »
    Why does Hillary qualify as a Muppet? And BTW: Muppets are very popular.

    This must have been covered on the Ship in the run up to the last American election, but I've never understood why Hillary was so unpopular. From this side of the Pond she looked great, and an easy winner. However, it is clear that lots of Americans hated her. Why?
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate, Glory
    Re Vigano's letter:

    With my browser and system, the letter itself shows as encrypted/encoded--a slurry of alphanumeric and special characters. Anyone have any idea why? I played with cookie and security settings, but no change.

    Thx.
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate, Glory
    Addendum:

    I found a usable copy of the letter here.
  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    Golden Key wrote: »
    Why does Hillary qualify as a Muppet? And BTW: Muppets are very popular.

    This must have been covered on the Ship in the run up to the last American election, but I've never understood why Hillary was so unpopular. From this side of the Pond she looked great, and an easy winner. However, it is clear that lots of Americans hated her. Why?

    The far right have been running a hate campaign against her ever since it emerged that she was married to Bill Clinton and had opinions.
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