I understand our lot (well, Westminster anyway - I expect it'll apply to Scotland too) are imposing a 14-day quarantine starting on 15th June*, so that would probably put the kybosh on you coming here anyway.
* The words "stable door", "horse" and "bolted" spring to mind ...
Alas, some of the bizarre pronouncements of *Wastemonster* do seem to find their way north of the Wall, much (no doubt) to the disgust of the inhabitants of Blessed Alba.
Also those of the other parts of the Celtic Fringe...
Whilst the loose 'Federation' formerly known as the 'United Kingdom' exists, this sort of thing will continue.
I imagine they'll have to follow the same rules for air travel for consistency's sake otherwise everyone would suddenly book flights to Edinburgh to get round it.
I do also agree that it's about 4 or 5 months too late.
Borders are a reserved matter, which means that what happens when people cross borders is under the remit of Westminster. This is also why Scotland can’t pursue her own immigration policy.
... everyone would suddenly book flights to Edinburgh to get round it ...
I understand they probably can anyway; the quarantine doesn't apply (I believe) to the Irish Republic or France, so they can just fly to Dublin or Paris and hence to the UK.
I believe the quarantine will still apply if you fly in via France or Ireland as it is a requirement of those countries. Presumably it just moves along.
... everyone would suddenly book flights to Edinburgh to get round it ...
I understand they probably can anyway; the quarantine doesn't apply (I believe) to the Irish Republic or France, so they can just fly to Dublin or Paris and hence to the UK.
Mental or what?
That's kind of like (modulo the disease component) the US embargo on Cuba. You couldn't fly to Cuba, but you could fly to Canada or Mexico or Barbados, and then from there fly to Cuba. Stupid.
According to the government website, if you just transited via Ireland, you have to quarantine. France is not currently quarantine exempt. As long as you have spent at least a fortnight in Ireland, the Isle of Man or the Channel Islands, you don't have to self-isolate, otherwise it is a cumulative 14 days in the Common Travel Area, unless you're on the list of specialist jobs who are exempt, though Scotland differs on self-isolation for some of them.
It was announced this afternoon that in Ontario, as of 12 June, houses of worship will be opened to a maximum of 30% capacity. Personally, I think this folly.
Our church is due to open in two weeks. This worshiper will continue at home. We just received a mailer from our local Senior Citizen Advocate Group which said stay home. No need to tell this senior, although I did drop the dog off at the groomer, with every one in masks. Well not the dog. I tried doing her myself but that ended up being a half done job and both of us wet and worn out.
Just supported my Mum over Zoom (with some help from Dad) to do her first clipper hair cut. We started with 4.8cm long comb, but she wanted shorter and ended up using the 3.2cm comb - it took about 30min. She seems happy with it, and it looked quite smart
Brave of your Mom. Three cheers for her and your dad. I would be chicken although I am getting disparate. If I were a dog I could get it done. If I can be patient it will soon be long enough to gather in a knot. That will help.
I chanced to have a haircut just before lockdown began, so it is just now reaching the cusp between OK and a mess. I think it's hair bands from here on in.
I chanced to have a haircut just before lockdown began, so it is just now reaching the cusp between OK and a mess. I think it's hair bands from here on in.
Ditto. Hub on the other hand is climbing the walls because his barber locked down early, so he missed the boat. As yet he is refusing to let me cut it, but that may change.... Meanwhile, I'm married to Einstein.
It was announced this afternoon that in Ontario, as of 12 June, houses of worship will be opened to a maximum of 30% capacity. Personally, I think this folly.
We collectively decided to do a trial run on 28th June with an invitation only service, with the intent of going public on 5th July. In theory we can seat 500 plus, and on a normal Sunday will see 180-200, so we could see the regular number, but I think that's highly unlikely. I won't go unless really needed. Getting people in and out, and ensuring that they are properly spread out, will be interesting. Big discussion over the toilets. Not many people may need them, but those who have to go, have to go.
I had my hair cut just before I left Fredericton - I'd become friends with my hairdresser, and wanted one last cut from her before I left.
That was in February, and now I'm really needing a cut. My fringe (which is swept slightly off my face) would reach the end of my nose if I didn't keep flicking it back, but I really haven't the nerve to trim it myself.
Once things open up, I'll start the search for a hairdresser that I can afford ...
Our church has decided it will not resume services until the local health care services resume their normal routine, rather than their Covid-19 routine.
The church can seat only forty people if safe distancing is practiced, and that would not be satisfactory
Our Place is hoping to re-open for private prayer on the last two Sundays in June (21st and 28th), and for some sort of said Mass on Sunday 5th July.
All depending, of course, on whether or not the situation changes in the meantime e.g. if there's a massive increase in infections, and we go back to full lockdown...
Various meetings and working parties are being planned for next week, to make sure the place is clean, and that all unnecessary books etc. are tidied safely away. Quite how many people are likely to turn up when the church is at last open remains to be seen! Somehow, I don't think we're going to have any problems with maintaining social distancing.
Third covid test today. This one is belts and braces. Mandy has had a cough for about 3 days, and I got a little tickle yesterday. I'm still feeling this one in the back of my nose from two hours ago. I am NOT sweating on another covid test, thinking my stupidity has infected my workplace again. Plus, we decided not to risk shutting the fancy restaurant we'd booked for tomorrow night for Mandy's birthday. We shall re-book when clear.
Among 1.1 million people, 53,000+ tests here, 658 positive total, 30 active cases, 1 in hospital. Things just beginning re openning. It is very cautious here. They don't want to take any risks.
-restaurants may have 50% capacity, nearly none are actually openning
-exercise gyms at 50%
-churches max 30 people 2m apart
-indoor gatherings otherwise 15 people 2m apart
-outdoor is 30 max, also 2 m
Schools may open again in September.
Required that arrows guide one-way foot traffic. Markings on floors where to stand. Cleaning required with specific guidelines. Must provide masks and hand santization to people. Lots of things.
Everything I hear is that churches are mostly not openning and staying on line.
I have friends who are planning to go to Portugal when it reopens to Americans; they are thinking of doing their quarantine in England. What are the rules on that? Can they leave the house to go for a walk, or would they be stuck indoors?
Had a presbytery discussion on reopening this afternoon. It looks as if most are planning to reopen in late summer, August or September, regardless of provincial guidelines. The logistics of admitting and seating 30% of the building's capacity are a major problem, and as someone put it, who wants worship without singing and coffee? A profound theological issue worth a PhD or two.
Our church holds approx 300 people, but apparently we could only have 26 people safely whilst maintaining social distancing. Some of those 26 could be two people from the same household, provided they move around together in lockstep. I don't think I'd be in any hurry to be amongst the first 26 (or 24; presumably the minister and Beadle would be two of the people). There are lots of single elderly people who would, I assume, be more in need of it than me.
I have been "attending" the Sunday morning address from our minister on Facebook, and Bible Study and Session by Zoom. I'm not sure what I'd get from socially- distanced, no singing, no coffee, presence in the church building that I'm not getting online.
That said, some of our elderly are shielding, so they might not want to, either.
My google calendar has reminded me that tonight should have been the Sunday School leaders end-of-term dinner in a local Italian restaurant. I'm having a wee, sad, pang.
We had a chat with the members of our congregations in our Zoom meeting last night about reopening. It looks that the earliest we'll enter phase 3 allowing public worship would be mid July. All our buildings are large enough to take our current congregations with social distancing (in the case of the largest of those congregations only because the work to redevelop the building which is now significantly too large for the congregation hasn't started), but we recognise that there will still be a lot of members sheltering (or in households with someone sheltering) or in more vulnerable groups even if not formally sheltering who may be very cautious about coming out early on. And, several members are already tackling return to work issues with anxiety about end of lockdown, people who have barely left home for months will face significant psychological barriers to returning to patterns of leaving home for work, church, other social activities.
So, our provisional ideas which will now need to be discussed by the three sets of Elders and then somehow passed back to the congregations for approval will be that we open our churches for private prayer (though that's not in our tradition) but wait until phase 3 to do that rather than do it in phase 2 when it may be technically allowed. When the have the churches open there will need to be two Elders (or, Minister and one Elder) present for safeguarding requirements, so it's not as though we can unlock the doors and let people in and out as they wish, which will make it more like a gathering of people from different households and we're not sure where that would fit in the roadmap - is it 'private prayer' when there are people from at least three households in the building? We'll open the churches for a couple of hours (probably on Sundays) with a 'drop in/out' model so people can come into the buildings as they feel comfortable doing without anything in particular happening and easing people back into social situations. Then restart formal services probably in September. All subject to the recovery following the roadmap more or less as currently expected.
We also had a brief chat about whether to restart services while some people are unable to attend. If our worship isn't open to all to join, is it Christian worship? Some other local churches are looking at an "all out until all can be in" restart plan.
I have been "attending" the Sunday morning address from our minister on Facebook, and Bible Study and Session by Zoom. I'm not sure what I'd get from socially- distanced, no singing, no coffee, presence in the church building that I'm not getting online.
Yes, that’s how I feel. In many ways staying online will be more inclusive as those shielding are also there and we are all in this together. Online most of our congregation are present at the same time but that won’t happen in a socially distanced church. Oddly, our service has become more liturgical online, possibly because we can’t do our usual informal charismatic interventions such as sharing words during the service. That is what many people will be missing and will want to go back for. But small group meetings via zoom still enable this. We also get emails in the week with thoughts from various church members and members of the congregation being interviewed, which is lovely.
We have chat in randomly allocated break out rooms after the service and I’ve chatted to a wider range of people and met new people (our church is rather large and over 2 services normally). As an introvert it can actually be easier to chat online. Our missionaries abroad are also turning up to services so it must be great for them to maintain contact.
Yesterday was the day for Presbytery etc. discussions, obviously. I hosted our Business Committee on Zoom and we are recommending that for Sunday services we all wait till Scottish stage 4. I am happy about this as the idea of trying to open up again at stage 3 (which had been suggested in a CofS email to ministers, now thought to have been a bit premature) was doing my head in.
I have friends who are planning to go to Portugal when it reopens to Americans; they are thinking of doing their quarantine in England. What are the rules on that? Can they leave the house to go for a walk, or would they be stuck indoors?
I have friends who are planning to go to Portugal when it reopens to Americans; they are thinking of doing their quarantine in England. What are the rules on that? Can they leave the house to go for a walk, or would they be stuck indoors?
You have to stay indoors. We are going to Heidelberg for July and have organised our dog boarders to have them an extra two weeks when we get back.
“ You should not have visitors, including friends and family, unless they are providing essential care. The only friends and family who you can have contact with are those who travelled with you or people who you are staying with.
You cannot go out to work or school or visit public areas. You should not go shopping. If you require help buying groceries, other shopping or picking up medication, you should ask friends or relatives or order a delivery.
In England, you must only exercise within your home or garden. You cannot leave your home to walk your dog. You will need to ask friends or relatives to help you with this.”
The other issue for me would be that our toilets would remain closed. And while I rarely use the church toilets post-service, I do know that they are there. Attending an hour-long service, knowing that there is no toilet available; I'd have to actively remember not to have a coffee at home before heading out to church.
We're in the process of making sure our toilets are usable. First, and easiest, setting a one-person at a time rule. We currently have proper towels, and they need to go. So, we're getting hand dryers installed (also in the kitchen). Then we'll also be putting in cleaning supplies so that the toilets can be cleaned down frequently more easily (including wipes so each user can clean down taps, door handles etc before they leave). The whole building will now be getting cleaned more than once a week, hall users agreement now includes that they'll also clean down the toilets when they finish their sessions - for when they get back into the building which will almost certainly be before we restart worship.
Well, we have 4 loos in a small building. A single uni-sex loo by the back door (which is also the door used by the various organisations) and then off the main entrance foyer a single disabled loo, gents (with 2x urinals and 1x cubicle, 2x hand wash basins) and ladies (with more than one cubicle but I've not been in there). In theory you could have 5 blokes in the gents toilet ... but it's been a long time since we've held a service with 5 blokes in the entire building!
We have several hundred people in our church. There is a room with 4 ladies cubicles, two unisex disabled loos (one of them in the new annex) and I don’t know the status of the gents! I’m assuming the multi-use rooms will have to be single use with lots of queueing.
Someone is going to ask, so it might as well be me...what is a Shewee?
I think I might have an idea, but enquiring minds need to know...
Our Place is having a planning meeting next Monday, and a working party to clean and tidy the Church on the following Friday. We then, according to The Plan™, open for private prayer on the last two Sundays in June, with the first Eucharist on 5th July.
FatherInCharge and the churchwardens are being very sensible IMHO by not rushing things. On the subject of toilets, we have (in the Hall, which is attached to the Church) a Ladies with 2 cubicles, and a Gents with one cubicle and 3 urinals. How these are to be kept clean, and by whom, is one of the items on the planning meeting agenda!
My task in all this is simply to prepare some informative and welcoming posters for the outside of the Church and Hall...
We're in the process of making sure our toilets are usable. First, and easiest, setting a one-person at a time rule. We currently have proper towels, and they need to go. So, we're getting hand dryers installed (also in the kitchen).
Unbleached paper towels may be better than electric hand dryers unless they are the type with an outside exhaust (expensive to install, of course), as they tend to circulate particles from the hands through the air in the room. I don't know how much evidence there is to support that theory, but it seems reasonable. The disadvantage of paper is the need for supplies and maintenance.
I'd have expected the idea is that the soap would have killed all the virus and then washed it all down the drain anyway.
Hand dryers are specifically mentioned as a problem here. Anything that encourages movement of the air makes a contribution to the spread of the droplets. Hand dryers in public bathrooms have been taped off and are not being used.
For instance, if an infected person coughed in the bathroom, the hand dryer could contribute to the droplets covering surfaces in the bathroom. This could make for a real problem in a church setting where the bathroom would be needed by several people right after each other.
Paper towel is much more reasonable with the wastebasket near the door so that people can use paper towel on the door handle until leaving. There are many types of dispensers that are touch free. I suspect the touch free faucets and toilet flushing devices will be in great demand.
Comments
* The words "stable door", "horse" and "bolted" spring to mind ...
Also those of the other parts of the Celtic Fringe...
Whilst the loose 'Federation' formerly known as the 'United Kingdom' exists, this sort of thing will continue.
I do also agree that it's about 4 or 5 months too late.
Mental or what?
That's kind of like (modulo the disease component) the US embargo on Cuba. You couldn't fly to Cuba, but you could fly to Canada or Mexico or Barbados, and then from there fly to Cuba. Stupid.
Ditto. Hub on the other hand is climbing the walls because his barber locked down early, so he missed the boat. As yet he is refusing to let me cut it, but that may change.... Meanwhile, I'm married to Einstein.
We collectively decided to do a trial run on 28th June with an invitation only service, with the intent of going public on 5th July. In theory we can seat 500 plus, and on a normal Sunday will see 180-200, so we could see the regular number, but I think that's highly unlikely. I won't go unless really needed. Getting people in and out, and ensuring that they are properly spread out, will be interesting. Big discussion over the toilets. Not many people may need them, but those who have to go, have to go.
He was impressed with the efficiency of the set up.
That was in February, and now I'm really needing a cut. My fringe (which is swept slightly off my face) would reach the end of my nose if I didn't keep flicking it back, but I really haven't the nerve to trim it myself.
Once things open up, I'll start the search for a hairdresser that I can afford ...
The church can seat only forty people if safe distancing is practiced, and that would not be satisfactory
All depending, of course, on whether or not the situation changes in the meantime e.g. if there's a massive increase in infections, and we go back to full lockdown...
Various meetings and working parties are being planned for next week, to make sure the place is clean, and that all unnecessary books etc. are tidied safely away. Quite how many people are likely to turn up when the church is at last open remains to be seen! Somehow, I don't think we're going to have any problems with maintaining social distancing.
-restaurants may have 50% capacity, nearly none are actually openning
-exercise gyms at 50%
-churches max 30 people 2m apart
-indoor gatherings otherwise 15 people 2m apart
-outdoor is 30 max, also 2 m
Schools may open again in September.
Required that arrows guide one-way foot traffic. Markings on floors where to stand. Cleaning required with specific guidelines. Must provide masks and hand santization to people. Lots of things.
Everything I hear is that churches are mostly not openning and staying on line.
I have been "attending" the Sunday morning address from our minister on Facebook, and Bible Study and Session by Zoom. I'm not sure what I'd get from socially- distanced, no singing, no coffee, presence in the church building that I'm not getting online.
That said, some of our elderly are shielding, so they might not want to, either.
My google calendar has reminded me that tonight should have been the Sunday School leaders end-of-term dinner in a local Italian restaurant. I'm having a wee, sad, pang.
So, our provisional ideas which will now need to be discussed by the three sets of Elders and then somehow passed back to the congregations for approval will be that we open our churches for private prayer (though that's not in our tradition) but wait until phase 3 to do that rather than do it in phase 2 when it may be technically allowed. When the have the churches open there will need to be two Elders (or, Minister and one Elder) present for safeguarding requirements, so it's not as though we can unlock the doors and let people in and out as they wish, which will make it more like a gathering of people from different households and we're not sure where that would fit in the roadmap - is it 'private prayer' when there are people from at least three households in the building? We'll open the churches for a couple of hours (probably on Sundays) with a 'drop in/out' model so people can come into the buildings as they feel comfortable doing without anything in particular happening and easing people back into social situations. Then restart formal services probably in September. All subject to the recovery following the roadmap more or less as currently expected.
We also had a brief chat about whether to restart services while some people are unable to attend. If our worship isn't open to all to join, is it Christian worship? Some other local churches are looking at an "all out until all can be in" restart plan.
We have chat in randomly allocated break out rooms after the service and I’ve chatted to a wider range of people and met new people (our church is rather large and over 2 services normally). As an introvert it can actually be easier to chat online. Our missionaries abroad are also turning up to services so it must be great for them to maintain contact.
You have to stay indoors. We are going to Heidelberg for July and have organised our dog boarders to have them an extra two weeks when we get back.
From www.gov.uk - https://tinyurl.com/y9fvqdek
“ You should not have visitors, including friends and family, unless they are providing essential care. The only friends and family who you can have contact with are those who travelled with you or people who you are staying with.
You cannot go out to work or school or visit public areas. You should not go shopping. If you require help buying groceries, other shopping or picking up medication, you should ask friends or relatives or order a delivery.
In England, you must only exercise within your home or garden. You cannot leave your home to walk your dog. You will need to ask friends or relatives to help you with this.”
So now I am imagining your church loos as being like those you see in Roman bathhouses, where there are several all in a row for communal use.
I think I might have an idea, but enquiring minds need to know...
Our Place is having a planning meeting next Monday, and a working party to clean and tidy the Church on the following Friday. We then, according to The Plan™, open for private prayer on the last two Sundays in June, with the first Eucharist on 5th July.
FatherInCharge and the churchwardens are being very sensible IMHO by not rushing things. On the subject of toilets, we have (in the Hall, which is attached to the Church) a Ladies with 2 cubicles, and a Gents with one cubicle and 3 urinals. How these are to be kept clean, and by whom, is one of the items on the planning meeting agenda!
My task in all this is simply to prepare some informative and welcoming posters for the outside of the Church and Hall...
Hand dryers are specifically mentioned as a problem here. Anything that encourages movement of the air makes a contribution to the spread of the droplets. Hand dryers in public bathrooms have been taped off and are not being used.
For instance, if an infected person coughed in the bathroom, the hand dryer could contribute to the droplets covering surfaces in the bathroom. This could make for a real problem in a church setting where the bathroom would be needed by several people right after each other.
Paper towel is much more reasonable with the wastebasket near the door so that people can use paper towel on the door handle until leaving. There are many types of dispensers that are touch free. I suspect the touch free faucets and toilet flushing devices will be in great demand.