“Let it come out and face us”? What kind of language is this?
It’s a particle that happens to multiply in our lungs and can kill us. It doesn’t have any agency whatever. It won’t and can’t ‘face us’. If we come anywhere near it it will infect us. He can pray as much as he likes, you can’t pray away a virus.
Pillock.
Fighting, guns, strong words, strong men, bravado, fervent prayers, strong faith - none of these will prevent a virus from spreading.
People who only have/employ such pointless defences are confused and stymied and will cause the deaths of many who believe and follow them.
I was thinking the language might be from the Old Testament/Hebrew scriptures, maybe something like Elijah and the priests of Ba'al. But I looked up the passage last night, and didn't find it there.
Could also be from the various military clashes in the OT/HS. You know, the kind of thing where a leader and his men call someone out.
I think everyone agrees on where we need to go. We need to get back to something as close as possible to where we were 6 months ago, and anything that has to change is a change for the better (I know several people who know that how they work will be forever changed - a lot of people have found they can work from home and businesses thinking "do we really need to rent such a big space when a lot of our staff can do most of their work from home?", and a member of a local church who's a consultant at the main hospital here has been doing 90% of her work online with only about 10% of patients needing to come in to the hospital for a physical exam - which she's found is better for the patients who mostly don't need to spend ages on the bus to the hospital and then wait for ages but get to sit comfortably at home, and she's not travelling into the hospital everyday either).
The point of disagreement is how we get there.
Re the bit I've emboldened. There is a belief among many that normal wasn't working so well and there's a desire for things not to return to the old normal post Covid.
Obviously it depends how much your life and finances have been affected by the lockdown but many have noticed improvements as a result of it.
Aye, there is plenty of scope for improvement. But, the intention isn't that in three years we're all still furloughed at home, that we can't go to the pub or visit parents. In the big things about what society looks like the aim is to return to what we had - people going to football matches if they want, or playing cricket if that's their thing. In some ways, a lot of positive changes will impact work rather than social life (including more working from home, less travel). Maybe we'll be more likely to socialise with our neighbours, a bit less with work colleagues (who we probably won't see as much of anyway). Less commuting means more free time.
I think both you and the survey's commissioners may be drawing rather strong conclusions from this.
Do people want to learn from their experiences? Sure - almost nobody will say that they don't in response to a survey. People want to learn, and grow, and re-evaluate their choices. Most people end up not doing that, because it involves effort, and it's easier to just go with the flow, but they'll say that they want to do better.
I can point at things that have improved since lockdown, too. There's a lot less traffic, which is nice, but I don't for a moment imagine that things will stay like that. I don't buy junk from the vending machine any more, because I don't walk past the vending machine mid-afternoon when I'm hungry, because I'm in my house and the vending machine isn't. That's an improvement, and I'd like to keep it, but I suspect realistically I'll slip back in to my old habits again.
But I'm not seeing a net improvement, and I'm still working, so I'm affected comparatively little by the lockdown. If you talk to the people who have been financially screwed by lockdown, I suspect you'll find that their priority is to start making money again.
People who make grandiose claims like
"This poll shows that the British people are increasingly aware that the health of people and planet are inseparable and it's time for radical environmental, social, political and economic change."
are usually lying both to themselves and to the rest of us.
Re the bit I've emboldened. There is a belief among many that normal wasn't working so well and there's a desire for things not to return to the old normal post Covid.
The Greens and Socialists were always going to try to use this tragedy to impose their beliefs on everyone else. That doesn’t mean we should let them.
What you don't think the world is better when you can walk down the street without choking on traffic fumes? Or you don't like to be able to hear bird song rather than the noise of engines? Wouldn't it be better if we could manage to retain those benefits as we get other things back towards normality? Giving our children a planet where they can live doesn't seem that bad an objective.
Re the bit I've emboldened. There is a belief among many that normal wasn't working so well and there's a desire for things not to return to the old normal post Covid.
The Greens and Socialists were always going to try to use this tragedy to impose their beliefs on everyone else. That doesn’t mean we should let them.
Impose? You mean "persuade of the benefits of", at worst. Imposing is what the government are going to be doing with their no deal Brexit in December, and then blame the economic fallout on the lockdown. Neither Greens nor Socialists are in any position to impose anything in the UK. What is it about the right and projecting their own behaviour onto others?
What you don't think the world is better when you can walk down the street without choking on traffic fumes?
I could anyway.
Or you don't like to be able to hear bird song rather than the noise of engines?
Birdsong is nice, but I’d happily never hear it again if it was the only way to keep my car.
Wouldn't it be better if we could manage to retain those benefits as we get other things back towards normality? Giving our children a planet where they can live doesn't seem that bad an objective.
If we can develop alternative technologies that will allow us to maintain our current lifestyles without such a negative impact on the planet, then sure. But otherwise I’d rather my son have a good life on a shit planet than a shit life on a good planet.
If we can develop alternative technologies that will allow us to maintain our current lifestyles without such a negative impact on the planet, then sure. But otherwise I’d rather my son have a good life on a shit planet than a shit life on a good planet.
This is a false dichotomy. There is no good life on a shit planet - surely that is becoming sufficiently clear? There is a shit life on a shit planet or a better life on a better, or recovering, planet.
This is a false dichotomy. There is no good life on a shit planet - surely that is becoming sufficiently clear? There is a shit life on a shit planet or a better life on a better, or recovering, planet.
I don't think this is true. It's perfectly possible for a minority of people to have a luxurious life on a planet that is rapidly heading down the shitter. The trick is getting to be one of those people, and not caring about the other people.
This is a false dichotomy. There is no good life on a shit planet - surely that is becoming sufficiently clear? There is a shit life on a shit planet or a better life on a better, or recovering, planet.
I don't think this is true. It's perfectly possible for a minority of people to have a luxurious life on a planet that is rapidly heading down the shitter. The trick is getting to be one of those people, and not caring about the other people.
Indeed. And in global terms, that minority is pretty much the Western World. Which we’re part of. Hooray!
Friends in DRC and Zimbabwe tell me that those who live on a daily wage there (i.e. most people) are dying, not of Covid-19, but of hunger, because the lockdown without any government support is depriving them of all income.
The fact that a pastor who advocates belief in an invisible God can cast doubt upon the truth of a virus as an enemy because he can't see it is some of the most spectacular cognitive dissonance you could ever hope to witness.
This is a false dichotomy. There is no good life on a shit planet - surely that is becoming sufficiently clear? There is a shit life on a shit planet or a better life on a better, or recovering, planet.
I don't think this is true. It's perfectly possible for a minority of people to have a luxurious life on a planet that is rapidly heading down the shitter. The trick is getting to be one of those people, and not caring about the other people.
Indeed. And in global terms, that minority is pretty much the Western World. Which we’re part of. Hooray!
Well at least that's honest. Most arguments against considering the planet and the rest of the human race try to pretend they're not based entirely on selfishness.
The fact that a pastor who advocates belief in an invisible God can cast doubt upon the truth of a virus as an enemy because he can't see it is some of the most spectacular cognitive dissonance you could ever hope to witness.
Perhaps he time-traveled? From, say, 1000 A.D,/C.E.? So we need to either send him back; or educate him, and hopefully teach him empathy and compassion, and send him back. Odds on whether history would be better?
If we can develop alternative technologies that will allow us to maintain our current lifestyles without such a negative impact on the planet, then sure. But otherwise I’d rather my son have a good life on a shit planet than a shit life on a good planet.
This is a false dichotomy. There is no good life on a shit planet - surely that is becoming sufficiently clear? There is a shit life on a shit planet or a better life on a better, or recovering, planet.
I raise a glass to the well-being of those poor souls over-burdened with empathy.
The rest of the bottle is for me.
Re the bit I've emboldened. There is a belief among many that normal wasn't working so well and there's a desire for things not to return to the old normal post Covid.
The Greens and Socialists were always going to try to use this tragedy to impose their beliefs on everyone else. That doesn’t mean we should let them.
But I am a Green and while not exactly a socialist, I am well to the left of centre.
This is a false dichotomy. There is no good life on a shit planet - surely that is becoming sufficiently clear? There is a shit life on a shit planet or a better life on a better, or recovering, planet.
I don't think this is true. It's perfectly possible for a minority of people to have a luxurious life on a planet that is rapidly heading down the shitter. The trick is getting to be one of those people, and not caring about the other people.
Indeed. And in global terms, that minority is pretty much the Western World. Which we’re part of. Hooray!
You sure about that being a reason to cheer are you ?
But people want this to be all over after less than 3 months
Lockdown should have been over after less than 3 weeks.
If it's serious enough to warrant a suspension of civil liberties such as the right to travel and the right to freedom of association, then it's a national emergency which warrants isolation of everyone for a short period - perhaps 10 days. Enough time for the disease to incubate so that we know who has it and who doesn't. After which lockdown would be over, and we would rely on social distancing, contact tracing etc to deal with localised incidence arising from asymptomatic carriers.
Didn't NZ attempt this ?
No, what NZ did (rather than attempted) was to have an initial 4 week lockdown, (which actually lasted a few days over because we needed a better level of testing and of tracing cases). Fourteen days was chosen because the longest incubation period for the virus is 14 days, so this allowed for numbers over 2 cycles to be collated' This was Alert Level 4. Once it could be verified that case numbers were decreasing some industries, like construction and forestry went back to work with strict hygiene measures and physical distancing of workers. (Alert Level 3). As numbers continued to drop we moved to Alert Level 2 where we are now. Physical distancing is still stressed, most retail is open with sanitizers at the door, ( most importantly to me personally the Library is open, but number of users are controlled and patrons have to leave contact deals and sign in and out also only 2 people in the lifts). Gathering of up to 100 people are allowed and children return to their schools. I can't remember the date when the review for moving to Alert Level 1, but it has been announced.
Currently NZ has one active case of COVID 19 - which is not to say numbers cannot rise again, but most out the NZ cases could be traced back to someone who had travelled overseas and currently the borders are only open to NZers returning home who to go into 2 weeks compulsory quarantine. It is hoped that by September travel between NZ and Australia will be possible, especially by people involved in the tourism industry.
While this was happening there was a multi-party group of politicians who, as I understand it, had the task of challenging breaches in Civil Liberties. This was Chaired by the then Leader of the Opposition (who has since been replaced by his own party because they are not polling well).
Comments
It’s a particle that happens to multiply in our lungs and can kill us. It doesn’t have any agency whatever. It won’t and can’t ‘face us’. If we come anywhere near it it will infect us. He can pray as much as he likes, you can’t pray away a virus.
Pillock.
Fighting, guns, strong words, strong men, bravado, fervent prayers, strong faith - none of these will prevent a virus from spreading.
People who only have/employ such pointless defences are confused and stymied and will cause the deaths of many who believe and follow them.
Pillock.
Could also be from the various military clashes in the OT/HS. You know, the kind of thing where a leader and his men call someone out.
New thread inspired
Re the bit I've emboldened. There is a belief among many that normal wasn't working so well and there's a desire for things not to return to the old normal post Covid.
Obviously it depends how much your life and finances have been affected by the lockdown but many have noticed improvements as a result of it.
https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-only-9-of-britons-want-life-to-return-to-normal-once-lockdown-is-over-11974459
I think both you and the survey's commissioners may be drawing rather strong conclusions from this.
Do people want to learn from their experiences? Sure - almost nobody will say that they don't in response to a survey. People want to learn, and grow, and re-evaluate their choices. Most people end up not doing that, because it involves effort, and it's easier to just go with the flow, but they'll say that they want to do better.
I can point at things that have improved since lockdown, too. There's a lot less traffic, which is nice, but I don't for a moment imagine that things will stay like that. I don't buy junk from the vending machine any more, because I don't walk past the vending machine mid-afternoon when I'm hungry, because I'm in my house and the vending machine isn't. That's an improvement, and I'd like to keep it, but I suspect realistically I'll slip back in to my old habits again.
But I'm not seeing a net improvement, and I'm still working, so I'm affected comparatively little by the lockdown. If you talk to the people who have been financially screwed by lockdown, I suspect you'll find that their priority is to start making money again.
People who make grandiose claims like are usually lying both to themselves and to the rest of us.
The Greens and Socialists were always going to try to use this tragedy to impose their beliefs on everyone else. That doesn’t mean we should let them.
Impose? You mean "persuade of the benefits of", at worst. Imposing is what the government are going to be doing with their no deal Brexit in December, and then blame the economic fallout on the lockdown. Neither Greens nor Socialists are in any position to impose anything in the UK. What is it about the right and projecting their own behaviour onto others?
I could anyway.
Birdsong is nice, but I’d happily never hear it again if it was the only way to keep my car.
If we can develop alternative technologies that will allow us to maintain our current lifestyles without such a negative impact on the planet, then sure. But otherwise I’d rather my son have a good life on a shit planet than a shit life on a good planet.
This is a false dichotomy. There is no good life on a shit planet - surely that is becoming sufficiently clear? There is a shit life on a shit planet or a better life on a better, or recovering, planet.
I don't think this is true. It's perfectly possible for a minority of people to have a luxurious life on a planet that is rapidly heading down the shitter. The trick is getting to be one of those people, and not caring about the other people.
Indeed. And in global terms, that minority is pretty much the Western World. Which we’re part of. Hooray!
Well at least that's honest. Most arguments against considering the planet and the rest of the human race try to pretend they're not based entirely on selfishness.
Perhaps he time-traveled? From, say, 1000 A.D,/C.E.? So we need to either send him back; or educate him, and hopefully teach him empathy and compassion, and send him back. Odds on whether history would be better?
I raise a glass to the well-being of those poor souls over-burdened with empathy.
The rest of the bottle is for me.
But I am a Green and while not exactly a socialist, I am well to the left of centre.
You sure about that being a reason to cheer are you ?
My thought also.
No, what NZ did (rather than attempted) was to have an initial 4 week lockdown, (which actually lasted a few days over because we needed a better level of testing and of tracing cases). Fourteen days was chosen because the longest incubation period for the virus is 14 days, so this allowed for numbers over 2 cycles to be collated' This was Alert Level 4. Once it could be verified that case numbers were decreasing some industries, like construction and forestry went back to work with strict hygiene measures and physical distancing of workers. (Alert Level 3). As numbers continued to drop we moved to Alert Level 2 where we are now. Physical distancing is still stressed, most retail is open with sanitizers at the door, ( most importantly to me personally the Library is open, but number of users are controlled and patrons have to leave contact deals and sign in and out also only 2 people in the lifts). Gathering of up to 100 people are allowed and children return to their schools. I can't remember the date when the review for moving to Alert Level 1, but it has been announced.
Currently NZ has one active case of COVID 19 - which is not to say numbers cannot rise again, but most out the NZ cases could be traced back to someone who had travelled overseas and currently the borders are only open to NZers returning home who to go into 2 weeks compulsory quarantine. It is hoped that by September travel between NZ and Australia will be possible, especially by people involved in the tourism industry.
While this was happening there was a multi-party group of politicians who, as I understand it, had the task of challenging breaches in Civil Liberties. This was Chaired by the then Leader of the Opposition (who has since been replaced by his own party because they are not polling well).