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Ship of Fools: St Anthony, Tigard, Oregon, USA

The Mystery WorshipperThe Mystery Worshipper Shipmate
edited March 2022 in The Mystery Worshipper

imageShip of Fools: St Anthony, Tigard, Oregon, USA

A very vibrant parish community — actions speak louder than words

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Comments

  • boston_irishboston_irish Shipmate
    Sadly St Joseph’s Day takes a back seat to another Saint who is also honored in March. In US cities with large Italian communities it is always a welcome respite from the austerity of Lent with St Joseph’s Bread, Zeppole, and other goodies specific to the solemnity.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    "And which part was like being in... er... the other place?
    Nothing hellish, but it was a bit odd to see the white vestments of priest and deacon against the purple altar frontal."

    It takes work to change a frontal - is it possible that that was the reason?
  • Amanda B ReckondwythAmanda B Reckondwyth Shipmate
    That's why God created Altar Guilds.
  • SojournerSojourner Shipmate
    To employ former School Prefects especially of the XX persuasion ( except @ some places where the Sacristan is a law unto himself and would not allow a gaggle of old biddies to touch the frontal ( much less anything else).

    Keeps said Sacristan off the dole, I guess.
  • boston_irishboston_irish Shipmate
    The departure from purple to white vestments that is befitting of St Joseph’s Day is symbolic of purity, as St Joseph was chosen as the earthly spouse of the BVM. The purple/violet frontal et al remain thru Lent until Palm Sunday when we bring out the red. And yes, these things are best left to the Altar Guild to ensure compliance with Canon Law.
  • Amanda B ReckondwythAmanda B Reckondwyth Shipmate
    And remember, this is an RC parish, where the pastor rules even over the most uppity of sacristans.
  • boston_irishboston_irish Shipmate
    I don’t want to stray too far off course here, but the Sisters in residence at my place are charged with this task. And no one would even think of asking….”Are you sure that’s the right colour?” Not even His Eminence.
  • Alan29Alan29 Shipmate
    Collars and cuffs should match.
  • Amanda B ReckondwythAmanda B Reckondwyth Shipmate
    boston_irish wrote: »
    I don’t want to stray too far off course here, but the Sisters in residence at my place are charged with this task. And no one would even think of asking….”Are you sure that’s the right colour?” Not even His Eminence.

    Indeed. No one ever questions a nun. Sister Agathine took care of it at the parish church of my youth. Well do I remember.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    Amanda B Reckondwyth wrote: »
    boston_irish wrote: »
    I don’t want to stray too far off course here, but the Sisters in residence at my place are charged with this task. And no one would even think of asking….”Are you sure that’s the right colour?” Not even His Eminence.

    Indeed. No one ever questions a nun. Sister Agathine took care of it at the parish church of my youth. Well do I remember.

    Please don't show us the scars.

    Boston Irish - no-one is disagreeing that Lent means purple frontals and vestments. The question is whether a Feast such as St Joseph (definitely one to be observed) overrides this for frontal, pediment etc as well as vestments
  • Alan29Alan29 Shipmate
    Frontal and vestments should follow the colour of the day. Even more so on a feast day.
    Presumably someone forgot the frontal or the person responsible was away.
  • boston_irishboston_irish Shipmate
    As not to drag this out any further I absolutely agree. Which is why these matters should be cared for by an Altar Guild or a superfluity of ancient nuns, as to ensure consistency set down by Church rubrics. File under Joseph And The Amazing Technicolor… Dalmatic
  • PomonaPomona Shipmate
    I don't see why using more than one colour is so bad - it is quite normal in many churches which may not have a set for every colour, and historically few churches would have been able to afford that. There is already precedence for using multiple colours for Corpus Christi, too. I quite like the idea of maintaining the wider season's colours for the altar frontal etc but vestments changing for a saint's day or eg a baptism.
  • Amanda B ReckondwythAmanda B Reckondwyth Shipmate
    Provided the altar is architecturally (and liturgically) worthy*, there is nothing wrong with going without a frontal, especially if the church's inventory of frontals is lacking the proper color of the day.

    _________________________

    * And those that aren't make the Baby Jesus and his Blessed Mother cry.
  • Alan29Alan29 Shipmate
    Pomona wrote: »
    I don't see why using more than one colour is so bad - it is quite normal in many churches which may not have a set for every colour, and historically few churches would have been able to afford that. There is already precedence for using multiple colours for Corpus Christi, too. I quite like the idea of maintaining the wider season's colours for the altar frontal etc but vestments changing for a saint's day or eg a baptism.

    Good or bad, there is no room for choice over that with the RCC. The instruction is plain, vestments, and where they have them the frontal and that dangly bit of cloth on the lectern which always reminds me of the white cloth smart waiters drape over their arm have to go with the colour of the day.
    Contravention risks a visit from the cardinals with the soft arm chairs!
  • Amanda B ReckondwythAmanda B Reckondwyth Shipmate
    Whom nobody expects! Where's Monty Python when we need them so badly?
  • Alan29Alan29 Shipmate
    Amanda B Reckondwyth wrote: »
    Whom nobody expects! Where's Monty Python when we need them so badly?

    Real life has gone beyond their wildest imaginings.
  • Amanda B ReckondwythAmanda B Reckondwyth Shipmate
    So has this thread, I'm afraid. Partially my fault.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    Alan29 wrote: »

    Good or bad, there is no room for choice over that with the RCC. The instruction is plain, vestments, and where they have them the frontal and that dangly bit of cloth on the lectern which always reminds me of the white cloth smart waiters drape over their arm have to go with the colour of the day.

    We call that dangly bit the pediment, but it's nothing like a pediment in architecture.

    Amanda B Reckondwyth wrote: »
    Provided the altar is architecturally (and liturgically) worthy*, there is nothing wrong with going without a frontal, especially if the church's inventory of frontals is lacking the proper color of the day..

    At several churches, we've seen no frontal, but rather a good wooden table exposed to general view. It goes well in a modern church.
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    Gee D wrote: »
    Alan29 wrote: »

    Good or bad, there is no room for choice over that with the RCC. The instruction is plain, vestments, and where they have them the frontal and that dangly bit of cloth on the lectern which always reminds me of the white cloth smart waiters drape over their arm have to go with the colour of the day.

    We call that dangly bit the pediment, but it's nothing like a pediment in architecture.
    I’ve also heard pulpit/lectern fall or cloth.

    In my tribe, all such hangings—whether for table, pulpit or lectern—are generally referred to as paraments.

  • ForthviewForthview Shipmate
    In the RC church the frontal which was often placed before the altar table,but rarely seen now in RC churches was called the antpendium.
    Lutheran churches ,certainly in Germany,usually have a 'dangly piece of cloth' hanging down from the cntre of the altar just like a white 'pulpit fall' I have asked several Lutherans about it but never found out the name nor the significance of the item.
  • ForthviewForthview Shipmate
    For 'antpendium' please read 'antependium'.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    Forthview wrote: »
    For 'antpendium' please read 'antependium'.

    What do you have against on of the Father's tinier creatures - lets's stick to antpendium.


    Nick Tamen's usage makes sense and I may try some subversive work if we ever get around to using the pulpit again for preaching, rather than the lectern (at the front on the Gospel side)which is used for as the OT, Psalm and NT readings. The rector abandoned the pulpit as a part of the covid plan. Please don't ask me to explain why.
  • Amanda B ReckondwythAmanda B Reckondwyth Shipmate
    [assumes quizzical look]

    We aren't straying away from Tigard, Oregon, now, are we?

    [reassumes usual appearance of composure]
  • Al EluiaAl Eluia Shipmate Posts: 15
    Footnote about the city: Tigard is pronounced like tiger but with a D added. (As opposed to "Tie-guard")
  • Amanda B ReckondwythAmanda B Reckondwyth Shipmate
    Thanks for that. I would have said TEA-guard.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    Amanda B Reckondwyth wrote: »
    [assumes quizzical look]

    We aren't straying away from Tigard, Oregon, now, are we?

    [reassumes usual appearance of composure]

    We shall have to wait and see how it's pronounced by Our Lord and his Mother.

    As for Tigard - I heard it inwardly to rhyme with Tigger.
  • Amanda B ReckondwythAmanda B Reckondwyth Shipmate
    [singing]

    And did those feet in ancient time,
    Walk upon Tigard's mountains green

    [Miss Amanda will get her wrap]
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