Please see Styx thread on the Registered Shipmates consultation for the main discussion forums - your views are important, continues until April 4th.

Ship of Fools: Hope Church


imageShip of Fools: Hope Church

Warm welcome and gummy candies, but no Bible readings

Read the full Mystery Worshipper report here


Comments

  • Just to say that wearing face-coverings, though still "advised" in "crowded indoor spaces" and obligatory in certain places, is not now mandatory in Scottish places of worship.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    Could you describe the service a bit more please? There was a 27 minute sermon, but no Bible readings, and I'm wondering if there were some hymns. A prayer book at all?
  • Just to say that wearing face-coverings, though still "advised" in "crowded indoor spaces" and obligatory in certain places, is not now mandatory in Scottish places of worship.

    And, from today, not mandated anywhere!
  • angloidangloid Shipmate
    No bible readings?!! Presumably this church regards itself as evangelical. What reasons do they give for ignoring the scripture like this?
    About masks: they may not be mandatory but as the pandemic is far from over it seems a good idea to encourage their use especially in a comparatively crowded indoor gathering (even though most churches have plenty of space).
  • Gee D wrote: »
    Could you describe the service a bit more please? There was a 27 minute sermon, but no Bible readings, and I'm wondering if there were some hymns. A prayer book at all?

    Yes, I wondered about that. The MWer said they saw a guitar, and heard more music, but mentioned nothing about singing...although the church website refers to *sung worship*!

    Does this church uses a formal prayer book at all? I suspect not, but again, one would have expected at least a prayer before or after the sermon. There seem to be a number of places called *Hope Church* in this part of England, but I'm not sure if they're part of a denomination or network.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    Perhaps the readings would have obscured the sermon - which (worthy as it is) sounds more like an exposition for the Ascension or Trinity Sunday.
  • Maybe! But (however worthy) the service does sound more like a lecture, with sweets and/or bananas on offer...
    :wink:
  • Gee D wrote: »
    Could you describe the service a bit more please? There was a 27 minute sermon, but no Bible readings, and I'm wondering if there were some hymns. A prayer book at all?
    A prayer book? Surely you jest!

    Past services can be watched on their website. I quick perusal—yes, I fast-forwarded quite a bit—shows that roughly the first half of the service was a “time of worship,” i.e., praise and worship songs. Roughly the second half was the message. In between was the offering, at which those present read from the screen a “declaration” that seemed very much prosperity gospel—“I’m believing for” better jobs and pay raises and sales and commissions and rebates and debts paid off, that sort of thing.

    As for no Bible readings, I’ve encountered that from time to time, invariably in churches that assert that claim to take a very high view of Scripture as the inerrant Word of God. The omission of any reading of Scripture is frankly bizarre to me.

  • angloidangloid Shipmate
    KarlLB wrote: »
    Perhaps the readings would have obscured the sermon - which (worthy as it is) sounds more like an exposition for the Ascension or Trinity Sunday.

    That's like removing the paintings from an art gallery because they obscure the message of the curator's labels.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    angloid wrote: »
    KarlLB wrote: »
    Perhaps the readings would have obscured the sermon - which (worthy as it is) sounds more like an exposition for the Ascension or Trinity Sunday.

    That's like removing the paintings from an art gallery because they obscure the message of the curator's labels.

    I didn’t say it was a good reason
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    edited April 2022
    Nick Tamen wrote: »
    Gee D wrote: »
    Could you describe the service a bit more please? There was a 27 minute sermon, but no Bible readings, and I'm wondering if there were some hymns. A prayer book at all?
    A prayer book? Surely you jest!

    Past services can be watched on their website. I quick perusal—yes, I fast-forwarded quite a bit—shows that roughly the first half of the service was a “time of worship,” i.e., praise and worship songs. Roughly the second half was the message. In between was the offering, at which those present read from the screen a “declaration” that seemed very much prosperity gospel—“I’m believing for” better jobs and pay raises and sales and commissions and rebates and debts paid off, that sort of thing.

    Where's that vomiting emoticon when you need it?
    As for no Bible readings, I’ve encountered that from time to time, invariably in churches that assert that claim to take a very high view of Scripture as the inerrant Word of God. The omission of any reading of Scripture is frankly bizarre to me.

    Thing is, actually reading makes belief in inerrancy much harder to sustain. Much better to take it as read, if you see what I mean. Then you only have to work with your personal entirely consistent paraphrase saying exactly what your particular brand of Fundamentalism says it says.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    Nick Tamen wrote: »

    As for no Bible readings, I’ve encountered that from time to time, invariably in churches that assert that claim to take a very high view of Scripture as the inerrant Word of God. The omission of any reading of Scripture is frankly bizarre to me.

    Exactly.

  • [Shaking a finger]

    Let's remember that inerrant comes from the Latin errare, to wander. Miss Amanda fears this thread is wandering away from the service in question.

    @Amanda B Reckondwyth
    Lead Editor, Mystery Worship
  • I'm a bit confused! I think that Hope Church may be part of NewFrontiers, but I'm not sure. And it seems different from Re:Hope Church, also meeting in three Glasgow locations and possibly South African in origin.
  • Yes, I think Hope Church is part of New Frontiers, which makes the lack of Bible readings all the more puzzling as that particular network always prided itself on its commitment to biblical theology as well as charismatic expression.

    But then, swathes of evangelicalism have been dumbing down for a good while.
  • I'm a bit confused! I think that Hope Church may be part of NewFrontiers, but I'm not sure. And it seems different from Re:Hope Church, also meeting in three Glasgow locations and possibly South African in origin.

    This appears to be the church website:
    https://www.hopechurchglasgow.org/
    Trying to figure out any connection to NewFrontiers is a maddening rabbit hole.
  • That's what I found, too. On further investigation, I don't think it's part of NF.
  • Digging deeper, I found this page - look especially towards the bottom right-hand corner: https://www.hopechurchglasgow.org/change-the-world/. Following links there suggests connections with Vineyard, though not a formal affiliation. In many ways there seems to be a new emerging "Apostolic" grouping akin to those of the 1970s/80s. (Those who have read Andrew Walker's "Restoring the Kingdom" will know what I mean).
  • I naturally fact-checked their affiliation as a part of the editing process, and could find nothing to indicate that they were a member of anything.
  • PomonaPomona Shipmate
    The local church to me named Hope Church is iirc an Assemblies of God linked place - it isn't a church name specifically linked to a particular denomination, as far as I can tell.
  • The world is teeming with churches that bear identical names but have no relation with each other. Let's leave it at that, shall we?
  • Orange OnelOrange Onel Shipmate Posts: 7
    I agree with others who have commented on the absence of Scripture reading. Very disappointing in a Protestant Church in Glasgow.
  • I agree with others who have commented on the absence of Scripture reading. Very disappointing in a Protestant Church in Glasgow.

    Very disappointing in any church anywhere, I would hope (excepting those lacking access to a Bible or a literate person to read, of course).
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    I agree with others who have commented on the absence of Scripture reading. Very disappointing in a Protestant Church in Glasgow.

    Very disappointing in any church anywhere, I would hope (excepting those lacking access to a Bible or a literate person to read, of course).
    Yes, but this Protestant would note that the absence of any Scripture reading couldn’t happen in a Catholic Mass or Orthodox Divine Liturgy.

  • Alan29Alan29 Shipmate
    Nick Tamen wrote: »
    I agree with others who have commented on the absence of Scripture reading. Very disappointing in a Protestant Church in Glasgow.

    Very disappointing in any church anywhere, I would hope (excepting those lacking access to a Bible or a literate person to read, of course).
    Yes, but this Protestant would note that the absence of any Scripture reading couldn’t happen in a Catholic Mass or Orthodox Divine Liturgy.

    And this RC is astounded that the word of man should apparently be deemed more worthwhile than the Word of God.
  • I wondered if perhaps Bible verses were quoted during the sermon, as opposed to being *separate*, but I checked the MW Report again, and no, it is clearly stated that there were none.
Sign In or Register to comment.