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Ship of Fools: Hillsong Geneva, Switzerland

The Mystery WorshipperThe Mystery Worshipper Shipmate
edited August 2022 in The Mystery Worshipper
imageShip of Fools: Hillsong Geneva, Switzerland

Rock music, arms akimbo, QR code donations, Bible texts out of context… yes, it’s Hillsong

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Comments

  • boston_irishboston_irish Shipmate
    edited July 2022
    Like most Evangelical Mega-Churches, Hillside most likely interprets Holy Writ literally, word for word. I wonder how they reconcile Jeremiah 14:14? 🤷‍♂️
  • boston_irishboston_irish Shipmate
    edited July 2022
    S/b Hillsong.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    boston_irish wrote: »
    Like most Evangelical Mega-Churches, Hillside most likely interprets Holy Writ literally, word for word. I wonder how they reconcile Jeremiah 14:14? 🤷‍♂️

    Surely you realise that Jeremiah 14:14 refers to so-called churches and not to Hillsong.....
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    Seriously for a moment though - I've often thought that one of the potential problems with Charismatic practice is that if one is expecting God to provide prophecies and "words" and messages in tongues and whatnot, the possibility of filling in any gaps, as it were, is very real.

    I know there's theoretically checks and balances in the form of "Discernment" but that's also highly subjective.

    Put it another way, if you're expecting God to speak and he doesn't, any old rubbish that comes into your head can be mistaken for a message from God.
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    Hillsong is not a genre (?) that appeals to me, so I know little about it, and hesitate to criticise - but how typical of Hillsong is the Geneva gathering?
  • SeoirseSeoirse Shipmate Posts: 6
    KarlLB wrote: »
    Seriously for a moment though - I've often thought that one of the potential problems with Charismatic practice is that if one is expecting God to provide prophecies and "words" and messages in tongues and whatnot, the possibility of filling in any gaps, as it were, is very real.

    I know there's theoretically checks and balances in the form of "Discernment" but that's also highly subjective.

    Put it another way, if you're expecting God to speak and he doesn't, any old rubbish that comes into your head can be mistaken for a message from God.

    I happen to believe that prophecy is not only still possible for Christians but is in fact incumbent on us. The prophecy I saw at Hillsong and other churches of its ilk seemed more like educated guessing. "There is somebody in this room struggling with back pain"- well, duhhh...
  • SeoirseSeoirse Shipmate Posts: 6
    Bishops Finger wrote: »
    Hillsong is not a genre (?) that appeals to me, so I know little about it, and hesitate to criticise - but how typical of Hillsong is the Geneva gathering?

    Having seen a lot of Hillsong's online content, and judging by the way the church seems keen to roll out its model worldwide like a Jesus-shaped McDonald's, it is very similar indeed- albeit scaled down and translated into French. (Interestingly, Hillsong Geneva is a part of the larger Hillsong France sub-network, while Hillsong Zurich comes under Hillsong Germany)
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    Thank you @Seoirse!

    *Jesus-shaped McDonald's*... 🤣
  • PomonaPomona Shipmate
    edited July 2022
    Note also that Hillsong exports its music to many, many churches including very average churches in mainstream denominations - even if the music isn't for you personally, it is *hugely* influential in the wider Christian world well beyond charismatic circles. There is a good documentary on Discovery+ about them though it's frustratingly short.

    Also it should be pointed out that although the music is hugely successful as a stand-alone phenomenon - many listen to their music despite not being interested in attending one of their churches - all the royalties go to the church, not the songwriters or musicians/performers.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    edited July 2022
    Seoirse wrote: »
    KarlLB wrote: »
    Seriously for a moment though - I've often thought that one of the potential problems with Charismatic practice is that if one is expecting God to provide prophecies and "words" and messages in tongues and whatnot, the possibility of filling in any gaps, as it were, is very real.

    I know there's theoretically checks and balances in the form of "Discernment" but that's also highly subjective.

    Put it another way, if you're expecting God to speak and he doesn't, any old rubbish that comes into your head can be mistaken for a message from God.

    I happen to believe that prophecy is not only still possible for Christians but is in fact incumbent on us.

    Can you unpack that a bit? Something tells me you're not talking about somebody standing up in the service and saying "I think the Lord is saying...."
  • SeoirseSeoirse Shipmate Posts: 6
    KarlLB wrote: »
    Seoirse wrote: »
    KarlLB wrote: »
    Seriously for a moment though - I've often thought that one of the potential problems with Charismatic practice is that if one is expecting God to provide prophecies and "words" and messages in tongues and whatnot, the possibility of filling in any gaps, as it were, is very real.

    I know there's theoretically checks and balances in the form of "Discernment" but that's also highly subjective.

    Put it another way, if you're expecting God to speak and he doesn't, any old rubbish that comes into your head can be mistaken for a message from God.

    I happen to believe that prophecy is not only still possible for Christians but is in fact incumbent on us.

    Can you unpack that a bit? Something tells me you're not talking about somebody standing up in the service and saying "I think the Lord is saying...."

    no, indeed i don’t. for me, a prophetic voice is related to the quaker notion of ‘speaking truth to power’- speaking God’s love and justice through the power of the Holy Spirit. this very rarely- if ever- will involve getting up in church and yelling. though i wouldn’t count it out entirely…
  • Merry VoleMerry Vole Shipmate
    Interesting that Seoirse said the sermon 'seemed like more of a motivational talk with some scripture sprinkled in.'
    An old school friend of mine has been telling about his recent beginnings with the JWs. I was curious and asked 'what was the sermon message about, in just a few words?'
    He replied 'HOPE!' He was also very impressed with their audio-visual set-up. On another occasion I asked him what the JWs believe he came straight back with 'best if I arrange for a couple of JWs to visit you and explain...' . (I don't think they'll be letting go of him any time soon).
  • SeoirseSeoirse Shipmate Posts: 6
    Merry Vole wrote: »
    Interesting that Seoirse said the sermon 'seemed like more of a motivational talk with some scripture sprinkled in.'
    An old school friend of mine has been telling about his recent beginnings with the JWs. I was curious and asked 'what was the sermon message about, in just a few words?'
    He replied 'HOPE!' He was also very impressed with their audio-visual set-up. On another occasion I asked him what the JWs believe he came straight back with 'best if I arrange for a couple of JWs to visit you and explain...' . (I don't think they'll be letting go of him any time soon).

    that’s an interesting experience your friend had. i sincerely hope he doesn’t end up committing to the jay dubs. they’re a high-control group who have torn families apart and who regularly allow people (including children) to die through their policy on blood transfusions.

    for my part, i’ve been to two JW meetings. they essentially worked like those reading comprehension tests we had to do in primary school: read a short text, and then find the answers to subsequent questions in the text. i found it as mind numbingly dull when it was the watchtower as when it was a book in school. the cynic in me suspects that’s the point: stifle all independent thought and critical thinking (both of which are actively discouraged by JW literature) by never allowing a deeper look at scripture than that which is found in the watchtower.

    (i’ll get off my soapbox now.)
  • john holdingjohn holding Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    Seoirse wrote: »
    Merry Vole wrote: »
    (i’ll get off my soapbox now.)

    Thank you. I really don't need to point out that discussion of anything other than (in this case) Hillsong worship and music is out of bounds. This tangent needs to end at once.
    John Holding, Host
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