I think it would be more illuminating if @Alan29 explained what exactly his friends think is bad form about what he writes. Certainly it wouldn't be accurate to suggest that single dads exist as often as single mums or face the same kinds of societal pressures.
I have never been able to get a rational explanation. Responses have generally been pithy, short and profane. I suspect it is about a bloke invading the sisters' space.
Well an irrational explanation isn't the same as no explanation! The reality is that the number of mums that act as dads far dwarfs the number of dad that act as mums.
I think it would be more illuminating if @Alan29 explained what exactly his friends think is bad form about what he writes. Certainly it wouldn't be accurate to suggest that single dads exist as often as single mums or face the same kinds of societal pressures.
I have never been able to get a rational explanation. Responses have generally been pithy, short and profane. I suspect it is about a bloke invading the sisters' space.
Well an irrational explanation isn't the same as no explanation! The reality is that the number of mums that act as dads far dwarfs the number of dad that act as mums.
But they are there. Because they are few they should not be acknowledged? Is that a universal principle applicable to all minorities?
An e-mail from the British Newspaper Archive has popped into my inbox., with a selection of news-cuttings.
The jist is that "Mother's Day" in America had started to infiltrate the UK, with confectioners advertising it as an occasion to buy sweets for mothers in May. This triggered a revival of the mid-Lent "Mothering Sunday" in the U.K. A Miss C. Penswick-Smith, of 25 Regent Street, Nottingham, founded the "Mothering Sunday movement" in the 1920s, to "revive" the old custom of Mothering Sunday being the third Sunday in Lent.
The Nottingham Journal 16 March 1928 carried a poem, the final verse of which was:
One cries "The Candy Mother's Day
Should firstly help the sale of sweeties
"Tush" cries the other "Go Away!
To push the Mother Church more meet is
The rare opportunity to deliberately dwell on and draw out women's story and place in the purposes of Creative God seems rather a churlish one to stick one's nose up at when it's actually being offered on a plate. The Stabat Mater gospel for the day is a powerful image with a wealth of potential. It also seems like an excellent teaching point for Church nurture and the spirituality of the whole Body of Christ, in a world where Father God is still the pre-dominant image. But maybe these things don't matter any more?
I can't remember the last time I went to a typical 'Mothering Sunday' service of the sort I used to see as a kid. I expect I was a highly critical, rather mardy, unhappily single adult at the time. And I can see how people in pain might find those references difficult, if ineptly done. No doubt I might even have been one of those people. However, I really do think it isn't beyond the wit of a church congregation to both celebrate what is good about being 'family', or 'parent' (or whichever terminology is used) however broadly defined, and to be sensitive towards those amongst us who, for whatever reason, feel excluded.
I am, myself, a childless female. But I'm still quite happy to see people celebrating something good once in a while, or taking the time to have a look at how perhaps human relations with each other and God should perhaps be aligned and honoured within the church fellowship.
Also, as a history nerd, Mothering Sunday is one old Church tradition that has interest because of its folk religion and working class roots, its reflection back to times of servitude and exploitative labour practices etc. Whereas other man-made non Bible-based inventions like the Immaculate Conception or the Dormition of the BVM, Corpus Christi etc (to name a tiny few) hold no interest for me at all and make no connection with anything real in my own life, so far as I experience it. I'm still quite happy for others to celebrate these things nonetheless. Even though I can be tolerant of a child handing a stranger in the congregation a daffodil and must therefore be a 'bad person', I'm not entirely unredeemable! I can still, generously, allow my neighbour to find value in a ritual I personally consider essentially meaningless, without feeling the need to be offended by it. Or maybe that is what makes me a 'bad person'?
Thank my very much for the above post, Anselmina. It speaks for me, though I'm a father with three kids!
I think Mothers' Day has run its course as an event to be celebrated in church, though Mothering Sunday might still have legs. Psalm 84, I understand was part of the traditional liturgy, which includes a
...{continued} a beautiful image of the sparrow and swallow building a nest by the purified altar:
How lovely is your dwelling place,
Lord Almighty!
2 My soul yearns, even faints,
for the courts of the Lord;
my heart and my flesh cry out
for the living God.
3 Even the sparrow has found a home,
and the swallow a nest for herself,
where she may have her young—
a place near your altar,
I think it would be more illuminating if @Alan29 explained what exactly his friends think is bad form about what he writes. Certainly it wouldn't be accurate to suggest that single dads exist as often as single mums or face the same kinds of societal pressures.
I have never been able to get a rational explanation. Responses have generally been pithy, short and profane. I suspect it is about a bloke invading the sisters' space.
Well an irrational explanation isn't the same as no explanation! The reality is that the number of mums that act as dads far dwarfs the number of dad that act as mums.
But they are there. Because they are few they should not be acknowledged? Is that a universal principle applicable to all minorities?
The difference is that single motherhood has historically been targeted as being immoral in a way single fatherhood never has been - especially for those with children by different fathers. There's a reason Reagan never targeted 'Welfare Kings'. It comes across as an 'all lives matter' type statement, especially since single dads are usually portrayed as being exceptionally brave and selfless in a way single mothers aren't.
@Anselmina could you please quote anyone who has called you a bad person? Because nobody here who struggles with Mothering Sunday services has said that anyone who enjoys them is a bad person. I find it a bit strange that you could look at people's obviously deep-seated trauma and then label that discomfort as 'churlish'. People don't find such services uncomfortable because they want to reject services focused on women, they find such services uncomfortable because of their own traumatic experiences. Please bear in mind that church services don't exist in a vacuum but also get accompanied by weeks of advertising of Mother's Day in shops and on TV etc, so having every single space invaded by the subject is really difficult for a lot of people because you just can't escape it. That is a real problem especially when there is actual psychological trauma involved in someone's experience of motherhood (whether being a mother or being mothered). Perhaps churches could at least offer an additional service without mention of Mothering Sunday for people who need to avoid it, similar to how some churches have Blue Christmas/Blue Advent services. I don't see how that would be churlish, surely it's an issue of pastoral care?
For me the problem is saying that a focus on motherhood is somehow unusual for churches, whereas from my experiences it seems like women are only valued by churches when they have children. In reality single adults without children who are older than typical undergraduate age are made to feel much less welcome in church than families are. Look at all the emphasis churches place on having a 'family service' or 'all age service' (as if the regular parish Eucharist is somehow x-rated??) and especially the proliferation of Messy Church. There's no 'single childless adult service' offered by churches, and marriage and having children (obviously only in the correct married cishet way though 🙄) is frankly made into an idol by many churches particularly in Evangelical circles.
I think it would be more illuminating if @Alan29 explained what exactly his friends think is bad form about what he writes. Certainly it wouldn't be accurate to suggest that single dads exist as often as single mums or face the same kinds of societal pressures.
I have never been able to get a rational explanation. Responses have generally been pithy, short and profane. I suspect it is about a bloke invading the sisters' space.
Well an irrational explanation isn't the same as no explanation! The reality is that the number of mums that act as dads far dwarfs the number of dad that act as mums.
But they are there. Because they are few they should not be acknowledged? Is that a universal principle applicable to all minorities?
The difference is that single motherhood has historically been targeted as being immoral in a way single fatherhood never has been - especially for those with children by different fathers. There's a reason Reagan never targeted 'Welfare Kings'. It comes across as an 'all lives matter' type statement, especially since single dads are usually portrayed as being exceptionally brave and selfless in a way single mothers aren't.
I see that. In my head I have the picture of a friend, a man who was widowed with four young daughters. God knows he was mother and father to those girls. To sideline men like him because of historical attitudes seems heartless.
I think it would be more illuminating if @Alan29 explained what exactly his friends think is bad form about what he writes. Certainly it wouldn't be accurate to suggest that single dads exist as often as single mums or face the same kinds of societal pressures.
I have never been able to get a rational explanation. Responses have generally been pithy, short and profane. I suspect it is about a bloke invading the sisters' space.
Well an irrational explanation isn't the same as no explanation! The reality is that the number of mums that act as dads far dwarfs the number of dad that act as mums.
But they are there. Because they are few they should not be acknowledged? Is that a universal principle applicable to all minorities?
The difference is that single motherhood has historically been targeted as being immoral in a way single fatherhood never has been - especially for those with children by different fathers. There's a reason Reagan never targeted 'Welfare Kings'. It comes across as an 'all lives matter' type statement, especially since single dads are usually portrayed as being exceptionally brave and selfless in a way single mothers aren't.
I see that. In my head I have the picture of a friend, a man who was widowed with four young daughters. God knows he was mother and father to those girls. To sideline men like him because of historical attitudes seems heartless.
That’s pretty much what led Sonora Smart Dodd to found the American Father’s Day (third Sunday in June) not long after (American) Mother’s Day was established. Her mother died in childbirth, and her father raised her and her five brothers.
Our vicar usually preaches on Mothering Sunday, but this year it’s my turn. I haven’t worked out what to say yet. I am very aware that, for a variety of reasons, many people in the congregation will not particularly look forward to this day.
We make sure there are daffodils for everyone in the congregation.
Personally I would just prefer a preacher to just ignore it - I certainly wouldn't want flowers for it even if they were for everyone. It still has that 'fake happy' feeling Louise alludes to, and it's not like it's an actual church feast that has to be mentioned. Just let church be a place where the creep of commercial holidays doesn't happen.
I’m speaking from an American Mother’s Day perspectivd rather than of a UK Mothering Sunday perspective, but I can only recall one sermon I’ve heard on Mother’s Day that related in any way to motherhood or womanhood.* In my experience, the main and often only place that Mother’s Day is mentioned during the service is in the Prayers of the People, where thanks may be given for mothers (and mother-figures) and prayers offered for those for whom the day may be hard or challenging. Beyond that, there might be a one-line reference/acknowledgment of the day in the welcome or announcements. And some ministers or music directors might include a hymn like “Now Thank We All Our God” (“Who from our mothers’ arms . . .”) or “Sing Praise to God Who Reigns Above” (“As with a mother’s tender hand, God gently leads the chosen band . . .”) But it would never be the focus of the service or the subject of the sermon.
And I’ve never seen flowers given out. (I have seen that done at restaurants.) I would find that very weird in church.
* That one service was in a Southern Baptist church. Friends of ours, along with 5 or 6 other couples, were having their baby dedicated. The sermon was on Proverbs 31—“A good woman is hard to find, and is worth far more than diamonds . . . .” My wife and I found it fairly cringeworthy.
I expect FatherinCharge will preach on the day's Gospel - Mary at the foot of the cross - whilst extolling the wonderful way in which wives and mothers fulfil God's will, and obey His laws...
Now thank we all our God will most probably be sung, too.
FInC has promised me that prayer will be offered for mothers who have lost children, whether through miscarriage, accident, or illness, so that redresses the balance somewhat.
I have tried in the past to make sure that flowers are given out to every family or household represented in church, so as to avoid any exclusiveness - as a former Area Dean once pointed out, her household and family consisted of her and her dog, and was just as legitimate a family as any other...
@Nick Tamen unfortunately the flower thing seems to be very common in UK churches, even fairly progressive ones. Perhaps the March date means mothers are already likely to be discussed in the context of Women's History Month/International Women's Month and/or the Annunciation? I think churches now are much more mindful that not everyone finds Christmas easy, but there doesn't seem to have been the same reflection for Mothering Sunday or Father's Day. I would have thought that the pandemic would have changed things there though.
Just let church be a place where the creep of commercial holidays doesn't happen.
Mothering Sunday has been part of the liturgical year since the Middle Ages. You may as well say churches shouldn’t celebrate Christmas because of its creeping commercialisation.
You are absolutely right, but it’s worth remembering that some people find Christmas difficult.
OK, but that doesn’t mean the rest of us should stop celebrating it.
No; but in both cases it might make us - especially in churches (see OP) - think carefully about how we celebrate.
I think this is the most important point, as regards Mothering Sunday, and, for that matter, Christmas. It's all the faux Happy Families stuff that rings so hollow.
No; but in both cases it might make us - especially in churches (see OP) - think carefully about how we celebrate.
I think this is the most important point, as regards Mothering Sunday, and, for that matter, Christmas. It's all the faux Happy Families stuff that rings so hollow.
Thete are happy families. Hard to accept, it seems.
No; but in both cases it might make us - especially in churches (see OP) - think carefully about how we celebrate.
I think this is the most important point, as regards Mothering Sunday, and, for that matter, Christmas. It's all the faux Happy Families stuff that rings so hollow.
Thete are happy families. Hard to accept, it seems.
The problem is that it seems to be very hard for some Christians to accept that the nuclear family in particular has been a source of harm for many people, whether directly or indirectly. Churches have also unfortunately played a major role in promoting the nuclear family to an artificial extent - certainly it was not the experience or priority of the early Church. Churches would be a lot better equipped to serve people if they would reflect upon that and adjust their pastoral care appropriately.
When churches have Blue Christmas/Blue Advent services, are they saying that people who enjoy Christmas don't exist?
No; but in both cases it might make us - especially in churches (see OP) - think carefully about how we celebrate.
I think this is the most important point, as regards Mothering Sunday, and, for that matter, Christmas. It's all the faux Happy Families stuff that rings so hollow.
Thete are happy families. Hard to accept, it seems.
The problem is that it seems to be very hard for some Christians to accept that the nuclear family in particular has been a source of harm for many people, whether directly or indirectly. Churches have also unfortunately played a major role in promoting the nuclear family to an artificial extent - certainly it was not the experience or priority of the early Church. Churches would be a lot better equipped to serve people if they would reflect upon that and adjust their pastoral care appropriately.
When churches have Blue Christmas/Blue Advent services, are they saying that people who enjoy Christmas don't exist?
This.
Of course, there are happy families, but I have had it said to me - by someone who was officially a priest, but absolutely devoid of any pastoral sensitivity - that my lack of Lovely Wife and Happy Children was due to my disobeying of God's Laws™.
No; but in both cases it might make us - especially in churches (see OP) - think carefully about how we celebrate.
I think this is the most important point, as regards Mothering Sunday, and, for that matter, Christmas. It's all the faux Happy Families stuff that rings so hollow.
Thete are happy families. Hard to accept, it seems.
The problem is that it seems to be very hard for some Christians to accept that the nuclear family in particular has been a source of harm for many people, whether directly or indirectly. Churches have also unfortunately played a major role in promoting the nuclear family to an artificial extent - certainly it was not the experience or priority of the early Church. Churches would be a lot better equipped to serve people if they would reflect upon that and adjust their pastoral care appropriately.
When churches have Blue Christmas/Blue Advent services, are they saying that people who enjoy Christmas don't exist?
So what would you have churches do on Mothering Sunday or Christmas?
No; but in both cases it might make us - especially in churches (see OP) - think carefully about how we celebrate.
I think this is the most important point, as regards Mothering Sunday, and, for that matter, Christmas. It's all the faux Happy Families stuff that rings so hollow.
Thete are happy families. Hard to accept, it seems.
The problem is that it seems to be very hard for some Christians to accept that the nuclear family in particular has been a source of harm for many people, whether directly or indirectly. Churches have also unfortunately played a major role in promoting the nuclear family to an artificial extent - certainly it was not the experience or priority of the early Church. Churches would be a lot better equipped to serve people if they would reflect upon that and adjust their pastoral care appropriately.
When churches have Blue Christmas/Blue Advent services, are they saying that people who enjoy Christmas don't exist?
So what would you have churches do on Mothering Sunday or Christmas?
@Pomona already gave the example of Blue Christmas/Longest Night services. I already gave the example of praying in the Prayers of the People for those for whom the day is hard or challenging.
Beyond that, show some basic sensitivity? Be realistic? Acknowledge that the day, while very very happy for many if not most, can be painful for some? Channel the Spirit of Christ and not the spirit of Hallmark?
I’m frankly baffled that this is hard to grasp, or that there seems to be some idea that being sensitive to the pain or sorrow of some will somehow ruin the day for everyone else.
I'm not saying to not celebrate those occasions - although there's also no theological reason, imo, to conflate Mothering Sunday with the commercial Mother's Day and make it about motherhood. Mothering Sunday is Refreshment Sunday - so why ignore that in favour of a celebration of a commercial holiday? To me that makes no sense, especially as Mothering Sunday is often around the Annunciation anyway so it's not like motherhood won't be mentioned. Make it about rose vestments and simnel cake, not about suggesting that women only deserve celebration when they have children or saccharine Happy Families gubbins. Perhaps have a separate sermon planned for the Sunday nearest International Women's Day on that subject, reflecting on women in the story of the faith and women's struggles now - including motherhood but not restricting it to that.
The issue is that churches should recognise the way in which these occasions are difficult for some people, and that sometimes the way churches celebrate them make that worse. So they need treating with pastoral sensitivity and creativity. Making space within church where people can escape constantly being harangued by advertising for secular/commercialised holidays is a good start - church shouldn't feel like an extended advert for "mum's special day".
AIUI, Christmas wasn't celebrated especially by the early Church - the emphasis was on the Resurrection of Our Lord, rather than His Nativity.
Lent 4 - Refreshment Sunday - seems to have once upon a time been a short break from the austerity of Lent, and could be revived as such, were it not for the fact that St Hallmark has taken over, in the UK at least.
Indeed Lent 4 ,still known as Laetare Sunday,was a break in the middle of Lent.
The liturgy was slightly more festive than on other Lent Sundays inasmuch as the organ was allowed to play and the vestments were of a light hue. Most Lenten austerities have now disappeared in the RC Church though for the most part the liturgical texts remain what they were centuries ago.
It is more than possible that working people who lived away from home might return for this Sunday but it would not be recorded in the liturgical texts. In countries with a Catholic heritage many people will return home at the time of All Saints although the liturgical texts will make no mention of this.
Indeed Lent 4 ,still known as Laetare Sunday,was a break in the middle of Lent.
The liturgy was slightly more festive than on other Lent Sundays inasmuch as the organ was allowed to play and the vestments were of a light hue. Most Lenten austerities have now disappeared in the RC Church though for the most part the liturgical texts remain what they were centuries ago.
It is more than possible that working people who lived away from home might return for this Sunday but it would not be recorded in the liturgical texts. In countries with a Catholic heritage many people will return home at the time of All Saints although the liturgical texts will make no mention of this.
Yes. Our Place uses the organ all through Lent, but the rose-pink vestments do indeed come out for Laetare Sunday. FatherInCharge does try to encourage us to keep the Lent austerities, so he's halfway there as far as Lent 4 is concerned by having flowers distributed in church (to every household and family represented, if he does what I earnestly entreat him to do!) and by getting some willing person to make a simnel cake for the post-Mass coffee time.
He is hoping that at least some of our affiliated uniformed groups (Scouts/Cubs/Beavers/Squirrels) will be in church on Sunday, but I rather fear that there will be very few of them. The pandemic more-or-less put an end to their spasmodic appearances in church, except for a Christingle Service just before Christmas...and, come to think of it, Mothering Sunday is just about the worst day one could choose for a *Family Parade Mass*...
No; but in both cases it might make us - especially in churches (see OP) - think carefully about how we celebrate.
I think this is the most important point, as regards Mothering Sunday, and, for that matter, Christmas. It's all the faux Happy Families stuff that rings so hollow.
Thete are happy families. Hard to accept, it seems.
The problem is that it seems to be very hard for some Christians to accept that the nuclear family in particular has been a source of harm for many people, whether directly or indirectly. Churches have also unfortunately played a major role in promoting the nuclear family to an artificial extent - certainly it was not the experience or priority of the early Church. Churches would be a lot better equipped to serve people if they would reflect upon that and adjust their pastoral care appropriately.
When churches have Blue Christmas/Blue Advent services, are they saying that people who enjoy Christmas don't exist?
So what would you have churches do on Mothering Sunday or Christmas?
@Pomona already gave the example of Blue Christmas/Longest Night services. I already gave the example of praying in the Prayers of the People for those for whom the day is hard or challenging.
Beyond that, show some basic sensitivity? Be realistic? Acknowledge that the day, while very very happy for many if not most, can be painful for some? Channel the Spirit of Christ and not the spirit of Hallmark?
I’m frankly baffled that this is hard to grasp, or that there seems to be some idea that being sensitive to the pain or sorrow of some will somehow ruin the day for everyone else.
I am not familiar with Blue services. As for the rest, of course sensitivity to others should be a watchword. Another part of my ignorance is not knowing what other churches do on the day ...... it is not a part of our tradition other than maybe a single prayer of thanksgiving for mothers.
Your final paragraph might be seen as somewhat of an exaggeration.
My previous church had (and still has) a high view of single people and those without children. Many in leadership positions were single women, and those whose families didn’t fit the ‘perfect image’ were more than welcome too.
Over the years they have been acutely aware that many find the day difficult. Genuine attempts to be sensitive and inclusive have been made.
Unfortunately this can mean that the original five minute ‘kids run round giving chocolate to their mums while the rest of us smile indulgently’ can sometimes become a 15 minute ‘let’s all feel bad about this’ session.
They have tried various approaches. Mostly it has been that all women get flowers, or a little bath bomb or something. Which can leave you feeling you are being treated as an honorary mother, not necessarily a desirable thing.
The approach of my childhood church in the 1970s was that after the first hymn, the organ played and everyone was invited to come up to the altar for a bunch of primroses and a prayer card. What you did with them afterwards was your own business. Some put them on their mother’s grave. Others doubtless were thankful they could keep them for themselves and didn’t have contact with their mother.
Apart from ‘Shall we not love Thee, Mothrr desr’ (in a low church congregation!) nothing else in the service was about mothers. And the after church simnel cake was enjoyed by all.
No; but in both cases it might make us - especially in churches (see OP) - think carefully about how we celebrate.
I think this is the most important point, as regards Mothering Sunday, and, for that matter, Christmas. It's all the faux Happy Families stuff that rings so hollow.
Thete are happy families. Hard to accept, it seems.
The problem is that it seems to be very hard for some Christians to accept that the nuclear family in particular has been a source of harm for many people, whether directly or indirectly. Churches have also unfortunately played a major role in promoting the nuclear family to an artificial extent - certainly it was not the experience or priority of the early Church. Churches would be a lot better equipped to serve people if they would reflect upon that and adjust their pastoral care appropriately.
When churches have Blue Christmas/Blue Advent services, are they saying that people who enjoy Christmas don't exist?
So what would you have churches do on Mothering Sunday or Christmas?
@Pomona already gave the example of Blue Christmas/Longest Night services. I already gave the example of praying in the Prayers of the People for those for whom the day is hard or challenging.
Beyond that, show some basic sensitivity? Be realistic? Acknowledge that the day, while very very happy for many if not most, can be painful for some? Channel the Spirit of Christ and not the spirit of Hallmark?
I’m frankly baffled that this is hard to grasp, or that there seems to be some idea that being sensitive to the pain or sorrow of some will somehow ruin the day for everyone else.
I am not familiar with Blue services. As for the rest, of course sensitivity to others should be a watchword. Another part of my ignorance is not knowing what other churches do on the day ...... it is not a part of our tradition other than maybe a single prayer of thanksgiving for mothers.
Your final paragraph might be seen as somewhat of an exaggeration.
Perhaps it is something of an exaggeration, but it reflects how at least a few posts have come across to me. It’s always possible, of course, that’s a matter of how I, on the other side of The Pond, read them other than how they’re intended.
I, too, an unfamiliar with what happens in Mothering Sunday services. I’m going by what British shipmates have described, including the descriptions of distributing flowers or other gifts, which is totally foreign to me.
@Gill H I think the description of what your childhood church did sounds nice, and would be very appropriate I think. Handing out bath bombs sounds very strange! I agree that being treated as an honorary mother isn't necessarily desirable (and for many with complex feelings about motherhood would feel much worse than getting nothing) and I think children giving things to their own mothers is actually much more sensitive to others than giving something to all the women.
Although saying that, I still think it's an odd thing to do in church either way since it has nothing to do with church or Mothering Sunday as a church tradition.
Mothers' Day here is the second Sunday in May, and Fathers' Day is the first in September. No religious overtones to either - they are both commercial and secular observances. That leaves Mothering Sunday as a purely religious observance in some churches. Other States/Territories may well be different.
At CCSL Mothering Sunday is also the day of the annual vestry meeting so there would be simnel cake served after morning Mass. Various simnel cakes would appear and for some years I made a largish one for the choir with the provisi that a reasonable portion be saved for the Evensong choristers who did not turn up to rehearse till about 5 pm. Have not sung there for close to 10 years so don’t know whether the tradition continues.
I don’t recall whether there was any sentimental glorification of motherhood during morning Mass;certainly not during Evensong.
Mind you both Father’s and Mother’s Days are studiously ignored in this house, to the ineffable relief of the ( very adult) offspring.
We used have simnel cake, but neither of us can recall that for the last half-dozen years at least - more's the pity. No sentimental glorification for us.
Can’t resist Judas (always tinted pink) & the Christus ( 3 cm diameter as opposed to 2cm for the apostles). I usually make 8-10 for family & friends in time for Laetare Sunday and whether they are believers or not said cakes are well received to the point I dare not knock anyone off the list unless dead.
In my chorister days I used to host a post-Good Friday vege meal for the fellow-choristers ( and our then choirmaster the intrepid Madame la Directrice) after the 3 pm liturgy; a largeish simnel cake ( complete with Christus and Judas) would be served. I was always amused at the scramble for who managed to score Judas!!
Probably the most awkward Mothering Sunday service I still remember from many years ago is the one where my young step-daughter duly collected her posy of flowers and kept them in her hand, and subsequently in a vase at home, separately. She was saving them to give to her estranged mother when she next saw her, ( by which time, I forget how long it was, the flowers had died, of course.)
John 20:17: Jesus said to her, ‘Do not hold on to me, because I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, “I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.”’
John 20:17: Jesus said to her, ‘Do not hold on to me, because I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, “I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.”’
Yeahbut, you can only get Jesus ascended on Easter if you read this part out of context, without the rest of John’s gospel where Jesus continues to appear to the disciples. And, of course, you have to ignore Luke/Acts.
There was no big fuss about Mothering Sunday at our 9 o'clock Communion, although everyone was invited to collect a small posy (2 daffs with some greenery) on leaving church if they wished. I suspect that more will have been made of it at our 10.45 family service
Our place had a 10 am family service including Holy Communion. Four hymns, short but special liturgy, very inclusive but with a clear focus. There was only one reading, the Gospel, where Jesus commends his mother to John’s care and vice versa. Intercessions included all who care for and nurture us, as well as consideration for those for whom the day brings sadness. Potted plants were given out during the last hymn.
Nothing sloppy or sentimental.
Possibly, for me, one of the best MS services I have attended, though disappointing that only two small children were present- nothing unusual there.
First Mothering Sunday service at my new church. I've no idea how typical, but it was lead by the stewards - or, more specifically, the ladies who are stewards. In particular, several roles for one of the ladies who is childless, and it's generally well known that she always wanted children.
Our place had a 10 am family service including Holy Communion. Four hymns, short but special liturgy, very inclusive but with a clear focus. There was only one reading, the Gospel, where Jesus commends his mother to John’s care and vice versa. Intercessions included all who care for and nurture us, as well as consideration for those for whom the day brings sadness. Potted plants were given out during the last hymn.
Nothing sloppy or sentimental.
Possibly, for me, one of the best MS services I have attended, though disappointing that only two small children were present- nothing unusual there.
That sounds excellent - well done, @Puzzler 's Vicar!
👏
Our Place mustered 6 under-16s (plus a Bump, due to be born in about 5 weeks' time), but, as feared, no sign at all of any of the uniformed groups. Something of a lost cause, it seems.
The service was livestreamed, but I haven't yet watched it.
Our service went fine. Daffodils were given to everyone in the fourth hymn. We had about three teenagers and seven or eight younger children.
One woman came up to me to thank me for my sermon and said she’d made notes of a couple of things I’d said, and then explained it was the 20th anniversary of her son’s death. I had no idea this had happened, as she only moved to the area a few years ago. We had a long chat.
Given the postings here and the food for thought they had given me, it was with some trepidation Mrs RR and I went to our CofE eucharist this Sunday. The celebrant, our beloved Fr Will, was orphaned at an early age, but loves his uncles and aunts.
The service was just fine, with the Gospel reading that set for today (all of John 9).
Will preached on this and the different sorts of nurturing. Only at the ending of the servce was any MS tradition enacted, with the ladies and Will receiving posies. And then, to my surprise, I also received one. As I had been a single parent - mother and father to my daughter - I was very (like, very) moved and (a) choked on the final hymn (b) forgot my hat.
So the service was 'pitch perfect'. What was strange was that I hadn't sung the first hymn ('For the Beauty of the World ...') I hadn't since my mother's funeral.
We spoke about God as nurturer, and the sermon started in Acts 16/2 Timothy 1 - Lois and Eunice - and the question of how parents can seek to pass their faith on to the next generation (acknowledging that it often doesn't happen).
Comments
Well an irrational explanation isn't the same as no explanation! The reality is that the number of mums that act as dads far dwarfs the number of dad that act as mums.
But they are there. Because they are few they should not be acknowledged? Is that a universal principle applicable to all minorities?
The jist is that "Mother's Day" in America had started to infiltrate the UK, with confectioners advertising it as an occasion to buy sweets for mothers in May. This triggered a revival of the mid-Lent "Mothering Sunday" in the U.K. A Miss C. Penswick-Smith, of 25 Regent Street, Nottingham, founded the "Mothering Sunday movement" in the 1920s, to "revive" the old custom of Mothering Sunday being the third Sunday in Lent.
The Nottingham Journal 16 March 1928 carried a poem, the final verse of which was:
One cries "The Candy Mother's Day
Should firstly help the sale of sweeties
"Tush" cries the other "Go Away!
To push the Mother Church more meet is
I can't remember the last time I went to a typical 'Mothering Sunday' service of the sort I used to see as a kid. I expect I was a highly critical, rather mardy, unhappily single adult at the time. And I can see how people in pain might find those references difficult, if ineptly done. No doubt I might even have been one of those people. However, I really do think it isn't beyond the wit of a church congregation to both celebrate what is good about being 'family', or 'parent' (or whichever terminology is used) however broadly defined, and to be sensitive towards those amongst us who, for whatever reason, feel excluded.
I am, myself, a childless female. But I'm still quite happy to see people celebrating something good once in a while, or taking the time to have a look at how perhaps human relations with each other and God should perhaps be aligned and honoured within the church fellowship.
Also, as a history nerd, Mothering Sunday is one old Church tradition that has interest because of its folk religion and working class roots, its reflection back to times of servitude and exploitative labour practices etc. Whereas other man-made non Bible-based inventions like the Immaculate Conception or the Dormition of the BVM, Corpus Christi etc (to name a tiny few) hold no interest for me at all and make no connection with anything real in my own life, so far as I experience it. I'm still quite happy for others to celebrate these things nonetheless. Even though I can be tolerant of a child handing a stranger in the congregation a daffodil and must therefore be a 'bad person', I'm not entirely unredeemable! I can still, generously, allow my neighbour to find value in a ritual I personally consider essentially meaningless, without feeling the need to be offended by it. Or maybe that is what makes me a 'bad person'?
I think Mothers' Day has run its course as an event to be celebrated in church, though Mothering Sunday might still have legs. Psalm 84, I understand was part of the traditional liturgy, which includes a
How lovely is your dwelling place,
Lord Almighty!
2 My soul yearns, even faints,
for the courts of the Lord;
my heart and my flesh cry out
for the living God.
3 Even the sparrow has found a home,
and the swallow a nest for herself,
where she may have her young—
a place near your altar,
The difference is that single motherhood has historically been targeted as being immoral in a way single fatherhood never has been - especially for those with children by different fathers. There's a reason Reagan never targeted 'Welfare Kings'. It comes across as an 'all lives matter' type statement, especially since single dads are usually portrayed as being exceptionally brave and selfless in a way single mothers aren't.
For me the problem is saying that a focus on motherhood is somehow unusual for churches, whereas from my experiences it seems like women are only valued by churches when they have children. In reality single adults without children who are older than typical undergraduate age are made to feel much less welcome in church than families are. Look at all the emphasis churches place on having a 'family service' or 'all age service' (as if the regular parish Eucharist is somehow x-rated??) and especially the proliferation of Messy Church. There's no 'single childless adult service' offered by churches, and marriage and having children (obviously only in the correct married cishet way though 🙄) is frankly made into an idol by many churches particularly in Evangelical circles.
I see that. In my head I have the picture of a friend, a man who was widowed with four young daughters. God knows he was mother and father to those girls. To sideline men like him because of historical attitudes seems heartless.
I’m speaking from an American Mother’s Day perspectivd rather than of a UK Mothering Sunday perspective, but I can only recall one sermon I’ve heard on Mother’s Day that related in any way to motherhood or womanhood.* In my experience, the main and often only place that Mother’s Day is mentioned during the service is in the Prayers of the People, where thanks may be given for mothers (and mother-figures) and prayers offered for those for whom the day may be hard or challenging. Beyond that, there might be a one-line reference/acknowledgment of the day in the welcome or announcements. And some ministers or music directors might include a hymn like “Now Thank We All Our God” (“Who from our mothers’ arms . . .”) or “Sing Praise to God Who Reigns Above” (“As with a mother’s tender hand, God gently leads the chosen band . . .”) But it would never be the focus of the service or the subject of the sermon.
And I’ve never seen flowers given out. (I have seen that done at restaurants.) I would find that very weird in church.
* That one service was in a Southern Baptist church. Friends of ours, along with 5 or 6 other couples, were having their baby dedicated. The sermon was on Proverbs 31—“A good woman is hard to find, and is worth far more than diamonds . . . .” My wife and I found it fairly cringeworthy.
Now thank we all our God will most probably be sung, too.
FInC has promised me that prayer will be offered for mothers who have lost children, whether through miscarriage, accident, or illness, so that redresses the balance somewhat.
I have tried in the past to make sure that flowers are given out to every family or household represented in church, so as to avoid any exclusiveness - as a former Area Dean once pointed out, her household and family consisted of her and her dog, and was just as legitimate a family as any other...
OK, but that doesn’t mean the rest of us should stop celebrating it.
I think this is the most important point, as regards Mothering Sunday, and, for that matter, Christmas. It's all the faux Happy Families stuff that rings so hollow.
Thete are happy families. Hard to accept, it seems.
The problem is that it seems to be very hard for some Christians to accept that the nuclear family in particular has been a source of harm for many people, whether directly or indirectly. Churches have also unfortunately played a major role in promoting the nuclear family to an artificial extent - certainly it was not the experience or priority of the early Church. Churches would be a lot better equipped to serve people if they would reflect upon that and adjust their pastoral care appropriately.
When churches have Blue Christmas/Blue Advent services, are they saying that people who enjoy Christmas don't exist?
This.
Of course, there are happy families, but I have had it said to me - by someone who was officially a priest, but absolutely devoid of any pastoral sensitivity - that my lack of Lovely Wife and Happy Children was due to my disobeying of God's Laws™.
So what would you have churches do on Mothering Sunday or Christmas?
Beyond that, show some basic sensitivity? Be realistic? Acknowledge that the day, while very very happy for many if not most, can be painful for some? Channel the Spirit of Christ and not the spirit of Hallmark?
I’m frankly baffled that this is hard to grasp, or that there seems to be some idea that being sensitive to the pain or sorrow of some will somehow ruin the day for everyone else.
The issue is that churches should recognise the way in which these occasions are difficult for some people, and that sometimes the way churches celebrate them make that worse. So they need treating with pastoral sensitivity and creativity. Making space within church where people can escape constantly being harangued by advertising for secular/commercialised holidays is a good start - church shouldn't feel like an extended advert for "mum's special day".
Lent 4 - Refreshment Sunday - seems to have once upon a time been a short break from the austerity of Lent, and could be revived as such, were it not for the fact that St Hallmark has taken over, in the UK at least.
The liturgy was slightly more festive than on other Lent Sundays inasmuch as the organ was allowed to play and the vestments were of a light hue. Most Lenten austerities have now disappeared in the RC Church though for the most part the liturgical texts remain what they were centuries ago.
It is more than possible that working people who lived away from home might return for this Sunday but it would not be recorded in the liturgical texts. In countries with a Catholic heritage many people will return home at the time of All Saints although the liturgical texts will make no mention of this.
Yes. Our Place uses the organ all through Lent, but the rose-pink vestments do indeed come out for Laetare Sunday. FatherInCharge does try to encourage us to keep the Lent austerities, so he's halfway there as far as Lent 4 is concerned by having flowers distributed in church (to every household and family represented, if he does what I earnestly entreat him to do!) and by getting some willing person to make a simnel cake for the post-Mass coffee time.
He is hoping that at least some of our affiliated uniformed groups (Scouts/Cubs/Beavers/Squirrels) will be in church on Sunday, but I rather fear that there will be very few of them. The pandemic more-or-less put an end to their spasmodic appearances in church, except for a Christingle Service just before Christmas...and, come to think of it, Mothering Sunday is just about the worst day one could choose for a *Family Parade Mass*...
I am not familiar with Blue services. As for the rest, of course sensitivity to others should be a watchword. Another part of my ignorance is not knowing what other churches do on the day ...... it is not a part of our tradition other than maybe a single prayer of thanksgiving for mothers.
Your final paragraph might be seen as somewhat of an exaggeration.
Over the years they have been acutely aware that many find the day difficult. Genuine attempts to be sensitive and inclusive have been made.
Unfortunately this can mean that the original five minute ‘kids run round giving chocolate to their mums while the rest of us smile indulgently’ can sometimes become a 15 minute ‘let’s all feel bad about this’ session.
They have tried various approaches. Mostly it has been that all women get flowers, or a little bath bomb or something. Which can leave you feeling you are being treated as an honorary mother, not necessarily a desirable thing.
The approach of my childhood church in the 1970s was that after the first hymn, the organ played and everyone was invited to come up to the altar for a bunch of primroses and a prayer card. What you did with them afterwards was your own business. Some put them on their mother’s grave. Others doubtless were thankful they could keep them for themselves and didn’t have contact with their mother.
Apart from ‘Shall we not love Thee, Mothrr desr’ (in a low church congregation!) nothing else in the service was about mothers. And the after church simnel cake was enjoyed by all.
I, too, an unfamiliar with what happens in Mothering Sunday services. I’m going by what British shipmates have described, including the descriptions of distributing flowers or other gifts, which is totally foreign to me.
As for Blue Christmas or Longest Night services, this National Public Radio story provides a good description.
Although saying that, I still think it's an odd thing to do in church either way since it has nothing to do with church or Mothering Sunday as a church tradition.
I don’t recall whether there was any sentimental glorification of motherhood during morning Mass;certainly not during Evensong.
Mind you both Father’s and Mother’s Days are studiously ignored in this house, to the ineffable relief of the ( very adult) offspring.
In my chorister days I used to host a post-Good Friday vege meal for the fellow-choristers ( and our then choirmaster the intrepid Madame la Directrice) after the 3 pm liturgy; a largeish simnel cake ( complete with Christus and Judas) would be served. I was always amused at the scramble for who managed to score Judas!!
And no Jesus either?
No Jesus. There are those who believe he ascended at Easter.
But Ascensiontide is well after Easter - plus you need Jesus so there is a big marzipan ball to fight over!
I suspect that more will have been made of it at our 10.45 family service
Nothing sloppy or sentimental.
Possibly, for me, one of the best MS services I have attended, though disappointing that only two small children were present- nothing unusual there.
That sounds excellent - well done, @Puzzler 's Vicar!
👏
Our Place mustered 6 under-16s (plus a Bump, due to be born in about 5 weeks' time), but, as feared, no sign at all of any of the uniformed groups. Something of a lost cause, it seems.
The service was livestreamed, but I haven't yet watched it.
One woman came up to me to thank me for my sermon and said she’d made notes of a couple of things I’d said, and then explained it was the 20th anniversary of her son’s death. I had no idea this had happened, as she only moved to the area a few years ago. We had a long chat.
The service was just fine, with the Gospel reading that set for today (all of John 9).
Will preached on this and the different sorts of nurturing. Only at the ending of the servce was any MS tradition enacted, with the ladies and Will receiving posies. And then, to my surprise, I also received one. As I had been a single parent - mother and father to my daughter - I was very (like, very) moved and (a) choked on the final hymn (b) forgot my hat.
So the service was 'pitch perfect'. What was strange was that I hadn't sung the first hymn ('For the Beauty of the World ...') I hadn't since my mother's funeral.
God truly moves in mysterious ways!