Purgatory 2023: The Arts
I know I am bias in this subject as my OU degree is an arts degree (Humanities with Lit), what do shipmates think of the arts. They bring a lot of money into the countries we live in. The cost of viewing the arts (exhibitions, shows, plays, dance, opera etc) can be prohibitive. That said people who complain about prices of a show say will pay the same price for football match.
Sciences teach us how life works. The arts makes life bearable.
Sciences teach us how life works. The arts makes life bearable.
Comments
I like some of most arts - I like some musicals - Les Mis, JC Superstar; not so hot on some (most) others. Love some novels (Tolkien, Pratchett, Douglas Adams, H G Wells, Orwell) and not others (Dickens, Austen, Hardy, most of the "Classics").
My discretionary spending tends to go on things like tabletop RPGs and music equipment. I generally prefer making music (however badly) to listening to it. I don't generally go to gigs because they're just too loud for me.
Opera and ballet (well, dance generally) are closed books to me. Don't get them at all.
I think your final two statements are a false dichotomy. Knowing how things work is part of what keeps life interesting for me.
It's also a bit of a vague question. The question of subsidies to promote arts is interesting, as also is the place of art in worship. But as to what I think of the arts, it's too broad a concept to have a coherent thought about such a wide field. It can be anything between wonderful to bullshit, life affirming to life denying, holy to pornographic, and . . .need I go on.
Depends on the arts in question. A world without dance, paintings on walls and sculpture I can easily imagine; it's the one I inhabit most of the time; one with no story telling or music is rather more difficult.
Obviously the tradition of quilts arose out of thrift, recycling and women's labour - so not high 'art' at all. The examples - all modern, though some referencing older designs - were literally dazzling. Incredibly colourful and intricate to the point of sensory overload.
They are accessible and inspiring - admittedly I will never produce anything similar, I have neither the eyesight nor the decades left - but I return to what needle craft I can do with fresh zest.
That ISTM is what art is for - to show you what is there, what is possible. Art is not just between the covers of a book, or on the walls of museum, it's in the making and appreciating of all manner of things.
*which could be summarised as 'when in doubt, add another 20 colours'.
I love theyarts. Sport can be seen as an art.
Elitism, snobbery ... and so on.
I remember hearing Grayson Perry wondering aloud on a Radio 5 programme - or was it a Grauniad interview? - why it was thsf you have organisations and jobs set up to try and encourage more working class people to engage with the arts but you don't get similar initiatives aimed at drawing posh people into stock car racing ...
Anyhow, The Arts is such a broad topic that we need to break it down a bit.
Otherwise this thread will become a I Don't Know Much About Art But I Know What I Like thread.
Ah but can hooning be seen as an art??
I can sympathise with KarlLB about sculpture and dance, but have found myself developing a taste for the former. Visits to the Yorkshire Sculpture Park helped.
I think I could probably develop more of an appreciation for Dance but it would take me a while.
I think it is possible to have a kind of epiphany with any art form, but generally you have to stick at it for a while until you 'get' it - or not, as the case may be. There are always going to be forms that elude us as well as those we respond to.
Thing is, there's so much of it out there that it would take several life times to even scratch the surface.
I've only recently started reading African novels for instance. That's even before we start looking at novels or poetry in translation.
And that's leaving aside the fact that there are still a good number of mountains in the Lakes and North Wales I've not been up and Scotland almost totally undiscovered.
I sometimes feel like Andy Capp in a very old cartoon I recall where he's sitting in front of the telly saying "Oo's uncultured? With yer own eyes yer've seen me 'ere watching ballet an' opera an' all that twaddle!"
My point though, is that while we pays our money and we makes our choice - neither Wagner nor Metallica float my boat - there will be things that grab us that we can pursue 'had we but world enough and time.'
But yes, we will inevitably be selective. We only have a finite amount of time as you say.
Pre Covid we had a family outing every year to at least 1 rugby international, a concert (usually classical) one ballet and one opera or play - invariably in the cheapest seats. I suppose what others may have spent on holidays we spent on cultural treats?
It also seems to assume that children would necessarily enjoy such outings - most children would find it hard to sit still at a classical concert or ballet, which is developmentally normal. Running around on a beach is generally more enjoyable for children.
Now as an adult he goes to Shakespeare with pleasure and avoids classical concerts, having had a taste of both. I'm good with that. At least he tried them.
The Victorians, for all their fault,s had no problem with the Fine Arts - they were all for self-improvement, and the promotion and endowment of them was regarded as philanthropy.
What culture wars over classical music and opera? I'm not aware of any.
Someone being recognised as being elite within their discipline - eg an elite athlete - is different from elitism as a form of discrimination. I'm no reverse snob and enjoy both 'high culture' and 'low culture', but I don't pretend that one is more meaningful than the other. Likewise even elite athletes would say that enjoyment of sport is good even amongst people who only do fun runs etc. You can celebrate cultural things without suggesting that different ones are somehow 'not culture'.
Yeah but that's rugby in Wales, which iirc wasn't what was being discussed.
Which then gets into things like government and other funding for school trips to the theatre etc. Because for many children they are only able to access those things via school, certainly when I was a child it was the only affordable way of doing those things (and it's not something I would be able to afford nowadays).
Both of us have been quite involved in community theatre as well. I started acting when I was in High School. Mrs. Gramps started doing it when one of our children wanted to try out for a summer production. He went on to college with drama as a major, but later moved to comparative religion. He did write the score for that college's production of Arabian Nights Another son also acted in High School and a couple of college productions as well. Plus one of our granddaughters acted in community theatre. You might say it is a family tradition.
The universities do draw different touring productions which we have seen from time to time. Since they generally subsidized through the student associations, we have been able to purchase tickets at reduced prices.
Local Casinos also offer entertainment, mostly cover bands that sing songs of national artists. We have two close friends who play in a couple of those cover bands.
And since Mrs Gramps is a librarian, we always have books to read. We seldom watch television.
As for me and my family, the arts are a very important part of our lives. We have taken advantage of the affordability of local entertainment. We might not see the big headliners (we did in the past). But if you know where to look, there are great performances for affordable prices.
If I thought I was a better runner than Usain Bolt, I could prove it. Mo Farah and Bolt (different types of runners) we could even compare a bit.
If I thought Enid Blyton was a better writer than Shakespeare on the other hand, it would basically come down to does my opinion match that of the judges who decided that. And the selection of those who decide is itself selected by... So you end up with an elite who define quality.
Gymnastics (sport) or Photorealism (art) are somewhere in the middle. If a shadow is wrong, an expert could explain it. And if the 'elite' were really taking the piss, you could tell it and contest it.
Problem these days is that you're unlikely to accidentally run into ballet or opera on the main terrestrial channels such as BBC1 or ITV1.
Having said that, last Saturday's programme was free to all; and both our national dance and opera companies put synopses free to download on line.
After many years of watching ballet with my wife, I still often fail to "get it" - although I understand a lot more about dance than she understands (or wishes to) about trains!
I have to say that, for us, The Arts in various forms are extremely important. And we believe that they enrich and comment upon society as a whole.
Does taking them to hear Brian Ferry or ELO count as a 'pop' concert? By a 'straight' play I meant without songs so yes, not a pantomime nor a musical, although they have been to both - loathed the former and loved the latter.
We're Welsh so rugby is definitely culture, or at least part of our national culture. We also went to the local cricket club when they were little - nice smooth mown grass to picnic on outside the boundary - and to a few football matches.
What is a 'good' education? Purely subjective but I take it to mean being exposed to as wide a variety of experiences as possible, read, or have read to one, a broad selection of books, listen to many different musical styles, etc. Modern tech is a wonderful tool for things like adaptations of 'great' novels, Shakespeare plays, etc.
They first experienced ballet (and opera) on video: plenty of leeway to explain the action, allow for running about or doing their own dancing, etc. Similar thing with music.
As for the beach, we lived on the south coast when they were small and the beach was our go-to place for about 10 years.
My children don't share all of my tastes -one prefers ballet to opera and vice versa - and both roll their eyes when they hear the introduction to Mr tambourine man or Stairway to heaven.
School wasn't much better for 'cultural' trips. Plays were shown on TV in classroom; the only trips I had to the local theatre were pantomimes. I do not remember going to a London museum until my O'level years, despite being only 30 miles away. This was a trip to the planetarium and science museum for O'level physics, combined with an evening trip to a rock music laser display at the planetarium, where my group of friends sat in the dark and drank wine from a bottle with straws. This might explain why they never took us anywhere. But school was good at alternative cultural events; school arts week regularly featured BMX biking displays, break dancing and body popping. And the few wealthier students had the occasional language trip abroad.
Yet when I moved to London in my 20s I leapt at the chance to spend my weekends at museums and art galleries. I loved the ballet and opera, and was lucky enough to sometimes get free unsold tickets which were donated to the hospitals I worked in, usually of modern works I never would have thought to go to. I now have 2 OU degrees, an Open degree in humanities and English Lit, and a History degree, despite never having been to college or studied any A'levels. One of the things I tell my university students, half of whom have never been to college, is that they are not tied to their childhood experiences.
Well, although I know the "rules" of both cricket and football, I have to admit then when I watch cricket (I don't even bother with football) I can't tell a good performance from a bad one. People will say "good shot!" or "excellent bit of bowling!" and it looks exactly the same as any other shot or ball to me. Other people seem to see things I just don't see - it happens so fast how anyone can see anything is beyond me. Perhaps I have sensory processing issues.
Strangely enough, we saw a Durer exhibition in Bath yesterday. I had a mixed reaction, aesthetically, his Christian woodcuts didn't move me, except that they were 500 years old. But of course, his picture of a hare is ravishing, not there.
Art is not fripperies (although individual works can be, of course). It is part of humans being civilised. And, if we believe that we are made in God's image, then the creative urge within us is divine, an echo of the Original Creator.
Sure, but I bet a lot of people who watch football (soccer) don't understand the offside rule.
@Baptist Trainfan - yes, plenty of people were introduced to 'serious' drama and the arts through both BBC and ITV back in the day. Nobody would dare commission some of the 'Play for Today' productions these days.
There were also programmes like 'Arena' and 'The South Bank Show.' Early BBC2 output was extraordinary.
There was a concerted post-war effort to bring art and culture to 'the masses' after WW2. The growth in repertory theatre was part of that.
Back in my hitch-hiking days I remember discussions with lorry drivers (truck drivers) about Blake and much else besides.
There was a similar move to acquaint 'ordinary people' with science too.
The North Carolina Symphony was originally founded (as part of FDR’s New Deal work relief program) in 1932. In 1943, the North Carolina General Assembly approved what was popularly known as “The Horn Tooter Bill,” which made the North Carolina Symphony the first state-supported orchestra in the US. The North Carolina Symphony has received state funding continuously since 1943.
While it is based and has its home concert hall in Raleigh, it maintains concert series in at least six other North Carolina towns. The Symphony as a whole has around 200 concerts a year, and at least a quarter of those are specifically aimed at school students. It regularly travels around the state, giving concerts in school auditoriums or public parks. Each year, it engages in outreach and educational activities in all of North Carolina’s 100 counties; these include performances by smaller ensembles, visits to classrooms by individual musicians and supporting curricula for teachers. It sponsors a youth orchestra and a youth concerto competition, and it regularly opens its rehearsals to students and other members of the public.
In Britain today (or, at least, England) most arts organisations' bids for central funding are likely to be unsuccessful unless they have an outreach/educational programme (although sometimes such programmes only seem to reach the "already interested").
In Newport, Wales, Ballet Cymru (of which we are "Friends" do a great deal of work in schools, most in deprived areas, and get the children to perform on the public stage as a prelude to the main event.
There are some legacy groups like The RSC and The National Theatre that get public money, but as I say the lottery is a big funder now.
I queued for half an hour to get in to the Rijksmuseum. Breezed straight in to Curve, the Minack, the Globe. The Night Watch alone was worth it of course. To see Tutankhamen took a good hour.
Me too. I'd add recorded music to that - there are things you cannot do live which you can do in a studio. I can play only one instrument at once, but I have three or four guitar lines alone in some things I create.
Most of my artistic involvement is TV and recorded music.
Art is, as far as I'm concerned, essential, especially for a civilized society. One purpose of art is to take things out of context, to make you notice them, see the beauty of them. Another is to make you think, raise questions, give you insights. It's a very broad field, but the one thing all artworks have in common is that they're meant to evoke a response from you: whether it's appreciation, repulsion, mystification, so long as it's not indifference the piece of art has worked.
If I'm stuck waiting for a train somewhere I will usually have a look at any advertisement posters and think: how would I have handled this subject? Would I have used this background, this typeface, these colours? We take ad posters for granted and these also vary widely, but some of them are really quite inspired.
I also particularly love the craftmanship you find in museum objects that have survived for a thousand or more years, handmade by long-dead men we know little or nothing about, with extraordinary care and skill - no CAD in those days - and think they'd have been amazed and delighted to find their work had lasted for so long. I'm not sure that many artisans these days would have the skills to create from scratch some of the things you see in museums by hand - intricate metalwork and so on.
And yes, they are mostly static. But video art and art films are a relatively new development compared to the past.
I'm not at all sure they are "more artistic" in anybody's eyes. They're just getting more discussion here because we were on the subject of (non)accessibility to people of some backgrounds--and live arts are almost always going to be less accessible than the recorded kind, both on financial and logistical grounds.
Movies, radio, and tv is the medium for the masses. For instance, in spite of its long run, Phantom of the Opera reached a relatively small audience world wide, but when the cinematic version is finally released it will naturally reach much, much more.
Likewise, if it were not for radio, the Beatles would not have gotten their foot in the door in America so easily, and it was The Ed Sullivan Show that blew those doors wide open for them and other English groups. And now, there are artists from all over the world that can reach audiences instantly.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Phantom_of_the_Opera_(2004_film)