Questions have been asked about the singing of God save the King in church on the day following the coronation. Is it appropriate in an Australian Anglican church when some in the congregation are avowed republicans? If it is sung, at what point in the service should it be sung? We are puzzled as the King is our head of state but not head of the Anglican church in Australia. Anyone have thoughts?
Questions have been asked about the singing of God save the King in church on the day following the coronation. Is it appropriate in an Australian Anglican church when some in the congregation are avowed republicans? If it is sung, at what point in the service should it be sung? We are puzzled as the King is our head of state but not head of the Anglican church in Australia. Anyone have thoughts?
I'd be curious as to what the 'questions' are. Unusually for a modern national anthem, God save the King is framed as a prayer for the King. Its use in church can therefore be defended as such.
St Paul exhorts Christians to pray for this in power, not for the person in power's benefit but that the Christians may enjoy the benefit of good government and to practice their faith freely, and that was under the Roman emperors who were neither overtly Christian nor well disposed towards Christians. You don't have to agree with someone to hope that one's prayers for them will be beneficial.
If people don't want to sing it, I assume nobody is going to be walking up and down the central aisle with a churchwarden's staff to rap them on the knuckles if their lips aren't moving.
I don't think it's relevant at all whether the church in Australia is established or not.
The text of GSTK is quite a long way in places from a prayer for good governance "send him victorious / happy and glorious / long to reign over us" seems to be praying for a reign that is successful in the eyes of the world. The verse starting "Thy choicest gifts in store" is somewhat better.
I'm inclined to see it as putting an ecclesiastical gloss on secular jingoism and as such I wouldn't let it through the door, given the choice.
Questions have been asked about the singing of God save the King in church on the day following the coronation. Is it appropriate in an Australian Anglican church when some in the congregation are avowed republicans? If it is sung, at what point in the service should it be sung? We are puzzled as the King is our head of state but not head of the Anglican church in Australia. Anyone have thoughts?
If it is to be sung at all in your context, it might be appropriate (not quite the word I want, but I hope you see what I mean) for it to be sung after the service proper has ended. Those who don't wish to be involved could discreetly leave during the final hymn (if you have one) - at Our Place the last hymn follows on from the formal Blessing and Dismissal.
Given that the King is, for the time being, your Head of State, I suppose GSTK should have a place somewhere...
Questions have been asked about the singing of God save the King in church on the day following the coronation. Is it appropriate in an Australian Anglican church when some in the congregation are avowed republicans? If it is sung, at what point in the service should it be sung? We are puzzled as the King is our head of state but not head of the Anglican church in Australia. Anyone have thoughts?
If the King were himself actually present, as the head of state of Australia, what would you sing GSTK or Advance Australia Fair? I suspect the latter, so perhaps that's what you should sing if you feel moved to sing something patriotic for this occasion; prayers for the good estate of the King can be fitted somewhere else.
Questions have been asked about the singing of God save the King in church on the day following the coronation. Is it appropriate in an Australian Anglican church when some in the congregation are avowed republicans? If it is sung, at what point in the service should it be sung? We are puzzled as the King is our head of state but not head of the Anglican church in Australia. Anyone have thoughts?
I think you can drop the "Anglican" - what is the relevance of that as opposed to Catholic/Uniting/Salvation Army and so forth. At St Sanity, we were invited to sing God Save the King after the first Sunday services after the Queen had died. Not everyone joined in. Charles's having become the Supreme Governor on Earth of the CoE was irrelevant; he had become the head of state.
I posted this on this thread, but while it appears on the thread in one guise, it does not do so in this. Let's try again.
I think you can drop the "Anglican" - what is the relevance of that as opposed to Catholic/Uniting/Salvation Army and so forth. At St Sanity, we were invited to sing God Save the King after the first Sunday services after the Queen had died. Not everyone joined in. Charles's having become the Supreme Governor on Earth of the CoE was irrelevant; he had become the head of state. Our own thought is that if we sing, it ought be Advance Australia Fair, as that is the national anthem.
We won't be singing God save etc on Sunday - I am choosing the music (and want to get out of church alive!) However the priests intention at Mass on the day of the event will be for Charles. I dare say one of the Sunday intercessions will be for Charles.
I certainly don't expect to sing God Save the King in church on Sunday, as we're in the warm heart of America. Here, by the end of the first line we'd be challenged for deviation within the rules of Just a Minute. Our last "gracious King" here was Louis XV.
At RC churches in the US, when we are near patriotic holidays I have heard any number of patriotic hymns and songs sung, some of which are in hymnals, but I don’t think I’ve ever heard our national anthem sung. Even if the national anthem had religious content (ours doesn’t, at least not in the part of the poem anyone sings), it would feel very weird and uncomfortable to sing it in a. Church. I saw it sung in church once, in a liberal historically Anglo-Catholic but now not quite so much so Episcopal parish, for a patriotic holiday, while a prominent member of the parish who liked things to be big and flamboyant waved a big flag at the crossing. I thought it was not exactly appropriate for church but didn’t tell anyone other than my husband.
Has anyone else seen the national anthem sung in church in the US?
Has anyone else seen the national anthem sung in church in the US?
I have not.
But hymnary.org says that “The Star-Spangled Banner” appears in 225 hymnals. These include the Episcopal Church’s Hymnal 1982, The Baptist Hymnal (Southern Baptist) and numerous Catholic hymnals. It appears in a Presbyterian hymnal from 1895 (and its 1911 revision), but hasn’t been in a Presbyterian hymnal since, so far as I can find.
I've actually sung The Star-Spangled Banner at a service in our Cathedral here in the UK (and it's not at all easy to sing...).
It was a one-off occasion - a special service for all emergency personnel (Police, Fire, Ambulance) to show solidarity with our colleagues in New York a few days after 9/11. A goodly number from all three services turned out (all in uniform, of course), and it was a very moving occasion.
The inclusion of the US National Anthem was entirely appropriate, and much appreciated by a number of American visitors. The service was open to the general public, although there wasn't time to advertise it widely.
Has anyone else seen the national anthem sung in church in the US?
I have not.
But hymnary.org says that “The Star-Spangled Banner” appears in 225 hymnals. These include the Episcopal Church’s Hymnal 1982, The Baptist Hymnal (Southern Baptist) and numerous Catholic hymnals. It appears in a Presbyterian hymnal from 1895 (and its 1911 revision), but hasn’t been in a Presbyterian hymnal since, so far as I can find.
How does The Star Spangled Banner count as a hymn? There is nothing religious about it.
I've actually sung The Star-Spangled Banner at a service in our Cathedral here in the UK (and it's not at all easy to sing...).
It was a one-off occasion - a special service for all emergency personnel (Police, Fire, Ambulance) to show solidarity with our colleagues in New York a few days after 9/11. A goodly number from all three services turned out (all in uniform, of course), and it was a very moving occasion.
The inclusion of the US National Anthem was entirely appropriate, and much appreciated by a number of American visitors. The service was open to the general public, although there wasn't time to advertise it widely.
GSTQ was sung as well, naturally...
How was it appropriate? It is not a religious song, and it is overtly militaristic. “America the Beautiful,” which is often sung in churches, would have been more appropriate and just as well received.
Maybe your same church would have sung La Marseillaise after a similar tragedy that happened in France. But, looking at the lyrics of that song, would that really be ok in a church?
I've actually sung The Star-Spangled Banner at a service in our Cathedral here in the UK (and it's not at all easy to sing...).
It was a one-off occasion - a special service for all emergency personnel (Police, Fire, Ambulance) to show solidarity with our colleagues in New York a few days after 9/11. A goodly number from all three services turned out (all in uniform, of course), and it was a very moving occasion.
The inclusion of the US National Anthem was entirely appropriate, and much appreciated by a number of American visitors. The service was open to the general public, although there wasn't time to advertise it widely.
GSTQ was sung as well, naturally...
How was it appropriate? It is not a religious song, and it is overtly militaristic. “America the Beautiful,” which is often sung in churches, would have been more appropriate and just as well received.
The service @Bishops Finger described strikes me as a kind of hybrid of generic religious service that’s wasn’t too heavy on the worship and that was heavy on community shock, grief and solidarity. In that context I can see “The Star-Spangled Banner” being appropriate. It’s a case of the words not mattering as much as what the song represent, and in that regard nothing beats a national anthem.
@stonespring most British people would not be familiar at all with 'America the Beautiful'.
I would have suggested “My
Country ‘Tis of Thee” set to the tune of GSTK, with enough verses to include the religious parts, but given the lyrics it doesn’t make sense for anyone who isn’t a US-of-American to sing it.
“God Bless America” is more of a pop song, and is associated with baseball, but it wouldn’t be a terrible choice either.
I just think that secular national anthems, especially overtly militaristic ones like the US one or many others, or revolutionary ones like the French one, have no place in any church under any circumstances ever. If you want to have a service to convey the shock of September 11 and express sympathy, either don’t sing the national anthem
or don’t hold it in church.
I don’t dislike our national anthem. When my school played it on the loudspeaker on the one year anniversary of 9/11, I was the only student in the room that stood for it. It just belongs outside of church.
I think, though, that Church of England congregations in particular are so used to military and civic events happening in church that it wouldn't seem strange at all. I don't think singing the UK national anthem in an Anglican church would be seen as at all strange if it was for a military or civic event. The monarch's dual role as head of the armed forces and supreme governor of the Church of England means there often is a lot of crossover.
I'd query whether it's ever appropriate to sing as a hymn something that is not addressed to God or celebrating/advocating expressly Christian values, theology or fellowship.
It's precisely because God save the King is framed as a prayer, that in my view makes it defensible to sing it in Church in a way that Rule Britannia, The Star Spangled Banner, Flower of Scotland and Land of Hope and Glory all are not.
"Advance Australia Fair", out national anthem, is not religious. The first verse is OK, but the 2nd is OTT "When gallant Cook from Albion sailed ..... True British courage bore him on", and then it gets even worse. "God save the King/Queen" is the Royal anthem.
I've actually sung The Star-Spangled Banner at a service in our Cathedral here in the UK (and it's not at all easy to sing...).
It was a one-off occasion - a special service for all emergency personnel (Police, Fire, Ambulance) to show solidarity with our colleagues in New York a few days after 9/11. A goodly number from all three services turned out (all in uniform, of course), and it was a very moving occasion.
The inclusion of the US National Anthem was entirely appropriate, and much appreciated by a number of American visitors. The service was open to the general public, although there wasn't time to advertise it widely.
GSTQ was sung as well, naturally...
How was it appropriate? It is not a religious song, and it is overtly militaristic. “America the Beautiful,” which is often sung in churches, would have been more appropriate and just as well received.
The service @Bishops Finger described strikes me as a kind of hybrid of generic religious service that’s wasn’t too heavy on the worship and that was heavy on community shock, grief and solidarity. In that context I can see “The Star-Spangled Banner” being appropriate. It’s a case of the words not mattering as much as what the song represent, and in that regard nothing beats a national anthem.
Yes, that's it. Had @stonespring been there (and I guess they weren't) they would have appreciated the communal shock and grief to which @Nick Tamen refers. Bear in mind that we were trying to show some sort of expression of solidarity with ordinary Americans in their emergency services who had suffered unspeakable horrors.
I'd query whether it's ever appropriate to sing as a hymn something that is not addressed to God or celebrating/advocating expressly Christian values, theology or fellowship.
It's precisely because God save the King is framed as a prayer, that in my view makes it defensible to sing it in Church in a way that Rule Britannia, The Star Spangled Banner, Flower of Scotland and Land of Hope and Glory all are not.
Which is exactly my point. Some National Anthems have content that makes them appropriate to sing in a church (like GSTK), whereas The Star Spangled Banner does not.
I've actually sung The Star-Spangled Banner at a service in our Cathedral here in the UK (and it's not at all easy to sing...).
It was a one-off occasion - a special service for all emergency personnel (Police, Fire, Ambulance) to show solidarity with our colleagues in New York a few days after 9/11. A goodly number from all three services turned out (all in uniform, of course), and it was a very moving occasion.
The inclusion of the US National Anthem was entirely appropriate, and much appreciated by a number of American visitors. The service was open to the general public, although there wasn't time to advertise it widely.
GSTQ was sung as well, naturally...
How was it appropriate? It is not a religious song, and it is overtly militaristic. “America the Beautiful,” which is often sung in churches, would have been more appropriate and just as well received.
The service @Bishops Finger described strikes me as a kind of hybrid of generic religious service that’s wasn’t too heavy on the worship and that was heavy on community shock, grief and solidarity. In that context I can see “The Star-Spangled Banner” being appropriate. It’s a case of the words not mattering as much as what the song represent, and in that regard nothing beats a national anthem.
Yes, that's it. Had @stonespring been there (and I guess they weren't) they would have appreciated the communal shock and grief to which @Nick Tamen refers. Bear in mind that we were trying to show some sort of expression of solidarity with ordinary Americans in their emergency services who had suffered unspeakable horrors.
There, but for the grace of God, went we...
A lot of spontaneous things happened all over the world to show solidarity with many of the people affected and heroes of all kinds who stepped forward during the tragedy of 9/11, and people did what they felt moved to do to show their compassion, sympathy and humanity during them. I was not at the service you describe - in fact I didn’t attend religious services at all at the time.
I don’t mean to offend anyone who either themselves knows someone who died or or who served heroically (or both) on 9/11 (my family and friends know people who did). I am not a first responder and I know that first responders often feel underappreciated and taken for granted. I know that in exceptional circumstances rules are bent in order to make displays of abundant welcome, appreciation, etc.
I have a very strong opinion about singing the Star Spangled Banner in church. I don’t want to argue about it. I’m sure the first responders present appreciated the singing of the anthem greatly and were very grateful. I have a hard time understanding why people have such deep emotional resonances with things like that (I might have cried myself at such a service, but I don’t really understand the person that I was two decades ago either), but I am not like most people.
Maybe other Americans are different, but the national anthem is one of several patriotic songs that have been equally familiar and emotionally significant to me since childhood (America the Beautiful, My Country Tis of Thee, and God Bless America (that one a bit less than the others) being others). Obviously as an adult there are all kinds of other songs, that elicit strong feelings about my country in me, but they are either not as universally known across all communities or among children. But I’m in my late thirties and America is changing fast (often for the better), so ny experience may not be very representative.
I'd query whether it's ever appropriate to sing as a hymn something that is not addressed to God or celebrating/advocating expressly Christian values, theology or fellowship.
It's precisely because God save the King is framed as a prayer, that in my view makes it defensible to sing it in Church in a way that Rule Britannia, The Star Spangled Banner, Flower of Scotland and Land of Hope and Glory all are not.
Which is exactly my point. Some National Anthems have content that makes them appropriate to sing in a church (like GSTK), whereas The Star Spangled Banner does not.
Whereas I’d make a distinction between singing in a church and singing as part of a service of worship. I’ll quickly agree that “The Star-Spangled Banner” has no place in the latter.
But in many places, churches and cathedrals play host to community gatherings that aren’t services of worship, as well as to interfaith services and events, or community gatherings that may be a mix of generic prayer/worship and other elements. Whether singing “The Star-Spangled Banner” might be appropriate in such an event or gathering is, I think, a question that probably requires a case-by-case assessment. But I don’t think the mere fact that the event or gathering is in a church rules it out.
FWIW, I don’t dislike “The Star-Spangled Banner” either. But if it were up to me “America the Beautiful” would be the national anthem. (And “God Bless America” would never be heard again.)
I recall thinking, whilst attempting to sing The Star-Spangled Banner, that it wasn't quite the usual thing to have in church, but, as has been pointed out ad nauseam, the occasion was a one-off event.
I wish I could remember what else was sung during that service, apart from GSTQ.
I recall thinking, whilst attempting to sing The Star-Spangled Banner, that it wasn't quite the usual thing to have in church, but, as has been pointed out ad nauseam, the occasion was a one-off event.
I wish I could remember what else was sung during that service, apart from GSTQ.
The melody of “The Star Spangled Banner” saw its origin in “The Anacreontic” song, the song of an English gentlemen’s club of amateur musicians that had become a popular drinking song on both sides of the pond. I’m not sure how many other National anthems had similar origins for melodies.
Have the Melodies to any hymns originated in drinking songs or other bawdy songs?
... I have a very strong opinion about singing the Star Spangled Banner in church. ...
I have very strong opinions about singing I vow to thee my country in church, or anywhere else for that matter, but that's precisely because of the religious sentiments it tries to endorse. As a Christian hymn, I think it's execrable, despite its getting into many hymn books.
My son asked me a few years ago why my lips weren't moving when everyone else was singing it at a funeral a few years ago, but I could tell by his shimmer of a smirk that he had already worked out what my answer was likely to be.
Getting back on topic ( ), what hymns are to be sung congregationally at the Coronation?
I certainly may have missed something, but I see two:
“Christ Is Made the Sure Foundation” (to Purcell’s WESTMINSTER ABBEY)
“Praise, My Soul, the King of Heaven” (the tune isn’t specified in the program, but I’d guess LAUDA ANIMA)
I'd query whether it's ever appropriate to sing as a hymn something that is not addressed to God or celebrating/advocating expressly Christian values, theology or fellowship.
It's precisely because God save the King is framed as a prayer, that in my view makes it defensible to sing it in Church in a way that Rule Britannia, The Star Spangled Banner, Flower of Scotland and Land of Hope and Glory all are not.
Which is exactly my point. Some National Anthems have content that makes them appropriate to sing in a church (like GSTK), whereas The Star Spangled Banner does not.
Whereas I’d make a distinction between singing in a church and singing as part of a service of worship. I’ll quickly agree that “The Star-Spangled Banner” has no place in the latter.
But in many places, churches and cathedrals play host to community gatherings that aren’t services of worship, as well as to interfaith services and events, or community gatherings that may be a mix of generic prayer/worship and other elements. Whether singing “The Star-Spangled Banner” might be appropriate in such an event or gathering is, I think, a question that probably requires a case-by-case assessment. But I don’t think the mere fact that the event or gathering is in a church rules it out.
FWIW, I don’t dislike “The Star-Spangled Banner” either. But if it were up to me “America the Beautiful” would be the national anthem. (And “God Bless America” would never be heard again.)
It's very hard to define what is and isn't a worship service, especially if even a tiny amount of it involves prayer or a hymn. Coming from a Catholic background, I tend to think of the main sanctuary and chapels of a church as places where the rules for what are and aren't allowed should be different than in parish halls and other parts of a church building. However, not every church is big enough or was built recently enough to have any gathering space other than the main sanctuary. Therefore, I think that any church that wants its main sanctuary or chapels to be "multi-purpose" should, if they reserve the Blessed Sacrament in the Sanctuary or a chapel, move it outside of that space if any secular function is going to happen in that space. This isn't an issue for most Protestant churches. However, the church has a prominent altar or pulpit, or a very big cross or work of art in a central place, maybe a big sheet could be draped over it, a curtain drawn in front of it, or a folding screen placed in front of it to communicate that whatever is happening here is not official worship or preaching, although it should still be respectful and dignified.
There probably should be a similar protocol for when multiple congregations with very different theologies share the same worship space, especially if they are not only different denominations, but different religions. Jewish liberal start-up synagogues sometimes worship in churches, for example, and on university campuses religious groups of all faiths sometimes have make use of the same space, which may or may not have originally been built to be for one faith or another.
Have the Melodies to any hymns originated in drinking songs or other bawdy songs?
Depends on your definitions, I suppose, but a lot of hymns borrowed secular tunes. A lot of Scottish traditional music has been borrowed for hymns, and probably has its origin in ceilidhs of the old type (sitting at someone's home singing songs and telling stories) where a fair bit of drinking would be involved but I don't know if that makes them drinking songs.
Comments
Look up a 1652 pamphlet of that title by one Henry Haggar, a Baptist of Stafford.
Oh I have, I have.
https://quod.lib.umich.edu/e/eebo/A43676.0001.001?view=toc
Yep. I love the titles of 17th century pamphlets!
There was in Scotland - Charles II was King of Scotland from 1649.
I think, given the ferment of the time, the pamphlet was aimed at ensuring that situation continued.
As I reminded my congregation on the occasion of HRH's Golden Jubilee.
St Paul exhorts Christians to pray for this in power, not for the person in power's benefit but that the Christians may enjoy the benefit of good government and to practice their faith freely, and that was under the Roman emperors who were neither overtly Christian nor well disposed towards Christians. You don't have to agree with someone to hope that one's prayers for them will be beneficial.
If people don't want to sing it, I assume nobody is going to be walking up and down the central aisle with a churchwarden's staff to rap them on the knuckles if their lips aren't moving.
I don't think it's relevant at all whether the church in Australia is established or not.
I'm inclined to see it as putting an ecclesiastical gloss on secular jingoism and as such I wouldn't let it through the door, given the choice.
If it is to be sung at all in your context, it might be appropriate (not quite the word I want, but I hope you see what I mean) for it to be sung after the service proper has ended. Those who don't wish to be involved could discreetly leave during the final hymn (if you have one) - at Our Place the last hymn follows on from the formal Blessing and Dismissal.
Given that the King is, for the time being, your Head of State, I suppose GSTK should have a place somewhere...
If the King were himself actually present, as the head of state of Australia, what would you sing GSTK or Advance Australia Fair? I suspect the latter, so perhaps that's what you should sing if you feel moved to sing something patriotic for this occasion; prayers for the good estate of the King can be fitted somewhere else.
I think you can drop the "Anglican" - what is the relevance of that as opposed to Catholic/Uniting/Salvation Army and so forth. At St Sanity, we were invited to sing God Save the King after the first Sunday services after the Queen had died. Not everyone joined in. Charles's having become the Supreme Governor on Earth of the CoE was irrelevant; he had become the head of state.
I think you can drop the "Anglican" - what is the relevance of that as opposed to Catholic/Uniting/Salvation Army and so forth. At St Sanity, we were invited to sing God Save the King after the first Sunday services after the Queen had died. Not everyone joined in. Charles's having become the Supreme Governor on Earth of the CoE was irrelevant; he had become the head of state. Our own thought is that if we sing, it ought be Advance Australia Fair, as that is the national anthem.
Quite. I think I was reminiscing about Nouvelle-France, though. Louis was king of these here parts in particular.
Has anyone else seen the national anthem sung in church in the US?
But hymnary.org says that “The Star-Spangled Banner” appears in 225 hymnals. These include the Episcopal Church’s Hymnal 1982, The Baptist Hymnal (Southern Baptist) and numerous Catholic hymnals. It appears in a Presbyterian hymnal from 1895 (and its 1911 revision), but hasn’t been in a Presbyterian hymnal since, so far as I can find.
It was a one-off occasion - a special service for all emergency personnel (Police, Fire, Ambulance) to show solidarity with our colleagues in New York a few days after 9/11. A goodly number from all three services turned out (all in uniform, of course), and it was a very moving occasion.
The inclusion of the US National Anthem was entirely appropriate, and much appreciated by a number of American visitors. The service was open to the general public, although there wasn't time to advertise it widely.
GSTQ was sung as well, naturally...
And yes, I’d say singing it was an appropriate choice in those circumstances, and I can see why Americans present would appreciate it.
How does The Star Spangled Banner count as a hymn? There is nothing religious about it.
How was it appropriate? It is not a religious song, and it is overtly militaristic. “America the Beautiful,” which is often sung in churches, would have been more appropriate and just as well received.
Maybe your same church would have sung La Marseillaise after a similar tragedy that happened in France. But, looking at the lyrics of that song, would that really be ok in a church?
I sang it as part of a massed choir at a prom concert many years ago, which happened to take place on 4th July.
I would have suggested “My
Country ‘Tis of Thee” set to the tune of GSTK, with enough verses to include the religious parts, but given the lyrics it doesn’t make sense for anyone who isn’t a US-of-American to sing it.
“God Bless America” is more of a pop song, and is associated with baseball, but it wouldn’t be a terrible choice either.
I just think that secular national anthems, especially overtly militaristic ones like the US one or many others, or revolutionary ones like the French one, have no place in any church under any circumstances ever. If you want to have a service to convey the shock of September 11 and express sympathy, either don’t sing the national anthem
or don’t hold it in church.
I don’t dislike our national anthem. When my school played it on the loudspeaker on the one year anniversary of 9/11, I was the only student in the room that stood for it. It just belongs outside of church.
It's precisely because God save the King is framed as a prayer, that in my view makes it defensible to sing it in Church in a way that Rule Britannia, The Star Spangled Banner, Flower of Scotland and Land of Hope and Glory all are not.
But it felt so out of place that I wished we hadn't.
The Dean of Westminster will be wearing a cope made for the coronation of Charles II in 1660.
Yes, that's it. Had @stonespring been there (and I guess they weren't) they would have appreciated the communal shock and grief to which @Nick Tamen refers. Bear in mind that we were trying to show some sort of expression of solidarity with ordinary Americans in their emergency services who had suffered unspeakable horrors.
There, but for the grace of God, went we...
Which is exactly my point. Some National Anthems have content that makes them appropriate to sing in a church (like GSTK), whereas The Star Spangled Banner does not.
A lot of spontaneous things happened all over the world to show solidarity with many of the people affected and heroes of all kinds who stepped forward during the tragedy of 9/11, and people did what they felt moved to do to show their compassion, sympathy and humanity during them. I was not at the service you describe - in fact I didn’t attend religious services at all at the time.
I don’t mean to offend anyone who either themselves knows someone who died or or who served heroically (or both) on 9/11 (my family and friends know people who did). I am not a first responder and I know that first responders often feel underappreciated and taken for granted. I know that in exceptional circumstances rules are bent in order to make displays of abundant welcome, appreciation, etc.
I have a very strong opinion about singing the Star Spangled Banner in church. I don’t want to argue about it. I’m sure the first responders present appreciated the singing of the anthem greatly and were very grateful. I have a hard time understanding why people have such deep emotional resonances with things like that (I might have cried myself at such a service, but I don’t really understand the person that I was two decades ago either), but I am not like most people.
Maybe other Americans are different, but the national anthem is one of several patriotic songs that have been equally familiar and emotionally significant to me since childhood (America the Beautiful, My Country Tis of Thee, and God Bless America (that one a bit less than the others) being others). Obviously as an adult there are all kinds of other songs, that elicit strong feelings about my country in me, but they are either not as universally known across all communities or among children. But I’m in my late thirties and America is changing fast (often for the better), so ny experience may not be very representative.
But in many places, churches and cathedrals play host to community gatherings that aren’t services of worship, as well as to interfaith services and events, or community gatherings that may be a mix of generic prayer/worship and other elements. Whether singing “The Star-Spangled Banner” might be appropriate in such an event or gathering is, I think, a question that probably requires a case-by-case assessment. But I don’t think the mere fact that the event or gathering is in a church rules it out.
FWIW, I don’t dislike “The Star-Spangled Banner” either. But if it were up to me “America the Beautiful” would be the national anthem. (And “God Bless America” would never be heard again.)
I wish I could remember what else was sung during that service, apart from GSTQ.
The melody of “The Star Spangled Banner” saw its origin in “The Anacreontic” song, the song of an English gentlemen’s club of amateur musicians that had become a popular drinking song on both sides of the pond. I’m not sure how many other National anthems had similar origins for melodies.
Have the Melodies to any hymns originated in drinking songs or other bawdy songs?
Sorry this is getting very off topic.
My son asked me a few years ago why my lips weren't moving when everyone else was singing it at a funeral a few years ago, but I could tell by his shimmer of a smirk that he had already worked out what my answer was likely to be.
“Christ Is Made the Sure Foundation” (to Purcell’s WESTMINSTER ABBEY)
“Praise, My Soul, the King of Heaven” (the tune isn’t specified in the program, but I’d guess LAUDA ANIMA)
Plus, of course, “God Save the King.”
It's very hard to define what is and isn't a worship service, especially if even a tiny amount of it involves prayer or a hymn. Coming from a Catholic background, I tend to think of the main sanctuary and chapels of a church as places where the rules for what are and aren't allowed should be different than in parish halls and other parts of a church building. However, not every church is big enough or was built recently enough to have any gathering space other than the main sanctuary. Therefore, I think that any church that wants its main sanctuary or chapels to be "multi-purpose" should, if they reserve the Blessed Sacrament in the Sanctuary or a chapel, move it outside of that space if any secular function is going to happen in that space. This isn't an issue for most Protestant churches. However, the church has a prominent altar or pulpit, or a very big cross or work of art in a central place, maybe a big sheet could be draped over it, a curtain drawn in front of it, or a folding screen placed in front of it to communicate that whatever is happening here is not official worship or preaching, although it should still be respectful and dignified.
There probably should be a similar protocol for when multiple congregations with very different theologies share the same worship space, especially if they are not only different denominations, but different religions. Jewish liberal start-up synagogues sometimes worship in churches, for example, and on university campuses religious groups of all faiths sometimes have make use of the same space, which may or may not have originally been built to be for one faith or another.
Depends on your definitions, I suppose, but a lot of hymns borrowed secular tunes. A lot of Scottish traditional music has been borrowed for hymns, and probably has its origin in ceilidhs of the old type (sitting at someone's home singing songs and telling stories) where a fair bit of drinking would be involved but I don't know if that makes them drinking songs.