Rishi Sunak Socialist???

HugalHugal Shipmate
Some on the right of the Conservative Party have call Rushi Sunak Socialist. How Socialist can a Conservative Party PM who was one of the Bankers who caused the crash and has a rich wife and father-in-law be? Look out Corbyn Sunak is after your crown.
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Comments

  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    When you're so far to the right your left hand is holding Hayek's right and you can't see the left with the James Webb telescope everyone governing in the real world looks like a socialist.
  • Sunak is not a socialist. But then, nobody really thinks he is - nobody who has a clue what socialism is.

    But like in the US, "socialis" is just being used as a bogey man, it means "Someone I disagree with" and is just a different (older) version of "Woke".

    There are many things that Sunak is. I would probably get me and/or the ship in trouble if I said most of them.
  • It really is absurd and a good example of words losing their meaning. An all-too-common state of affairs in our Alice-in-Wonderland society. Similarly, anyone who supports the UK rejoining the EU is called 'left' even though the real lefties, including the Communist Party of Britain, no less, were strongly in favour of Brexit, while many Conservatives (and conservatives) opposed it.

    It's such a bizarre world I am glad I am old and won't be here to see the 'Fall of Rome' - so to speak.
  • BoogieBoogie Heaven Host
    ‘Socialist’ is a derogatory term in some spheres.

    That’s all.
  • Smug Canadian progressives like to gloat about how "American Democrats are to the right of our Conservatives." But I used to argue with some far-right Canadians on-line, and I can assure you they did NOT view Barack Obama as a more conservative leader than Stephen Harper. As far as they were concerned, Obama was no better than the leaders of Canada's socialist NDP. Pretty sure most of them think the same about Joe Biden, to say nothing of the Squad.
  • Hugal wrote: »
    Some on the right of the Conservative Party have call Rushi Sunak Socialist. How Socialist can a Conservative Party PM who was one of the Bankers who caused the crash and has a rich wife and father-in-law be?

    They think he's socialist because the Treasury spent money during COVID. It's a bit of baby-brained political thinking that is not uncommon online and increasingly in parts of the press; socialism is when you are spending money and the more money you spend the more socialist it is.
  • Alan Cresswell Alan Cresswell Admin, 8th Day Host
    As a Socialist I'm offended by the comparison of Sunak to sensible political positions.
  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    I'm not a Socialist, and share next to no opinions with Rishi Sunak but he doesn't appear to me to have any of the features I'd associate with being one at all.

  • Rishi Sunak is a Conservative MP.
  • BroJamesBroJames Purgatory Host
    [<snip> and the more money you spend the more socialist it is.

    Except on police, prisons, schemes to export refugees, or defence.
  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    Telford wrote: »
    Rishi Sunak is a Conservative MP.

    And Keir Starmer is a Labour MP, so what? He's not a socialist either.
  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    edited December 2023
    Telford wrote: »
    Rishi Sunak is a Conservative MP.

    And Keir Starmer is a Labour MP, so what? He's not a socialist either.

    I took @Telford's comment in the spirit of an exchange allegedly taking place between Franklin Roosevelt and a reporter...

    REPORTER: Mr. President, are you a Communist?

    FDR: No.

    REPORTER: Are you a fascist?

    FDR: No.

    REPORTER: What are you, then?

    FDR: Well, I'm a Christian. And a Democrat.

    Now, granted, the conversation might have gotten a little more complicated had the reporter asked him how he would situate his ideology in relation to that of other Democrats.
  • HugalHugal Shipmate
    Telford wrote: »
    Rishi Sunak is a Conservative MP.

    That had not stopped other Conservatives MPs calling him Socialist. They want there extreme right wing views to appear normal for the Cons. Instead of running the country they are playing bloody political games.
  • Telford wrote: »
    Rishi Sunak is a Conservative MP.

    And Keir Starmer is a Labour MP, so what? He's not a socialist either.
    But Sir Keir thinks that he is a socialist.

    NB...Nothing wrong with being a socialist by the way.
  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    Telford wrote: »
    Telford wrote: »
    Rishi Sunak is a Conservative MP.

    And Keir Starmer is a Labour MP, so what? He's not a socialist either.
    But Sir Keir thinks that he is a socialist.

    Does he? He used to say so 3 years ago, but I'm not sure he's said it recently and even if he did there's no reason to believe he's sincere.
  • SpikeSpike Ecclesiantics & MW Host, Admin Emeritus
    As Tony Benn once said “The Labour party has never been a socialist party, although there have always been socialists in it – a bit like Christians in the Church of England.”
  • DoublethinkDoublethink Admin, 8th Day Host
    :mrgreen:
  • Labour has never been a truly socialist party in modern times. It is a Grand Coalition of socialists, social democrats and pragmatic liberals.

    In the same way, the Tory Party is a Grand Coalition of paternalistic liberals, free-marketers, libertarians, and neo-fascists.

    With an FPTP voting system the only way to get elected is to form your coalition before the polls and pretend to be a united Party.
  • I'd like to see a journalist ask Starmer about socialism, he would change the subject very fast, or I guess he might come clean, and say, not me guv.
  • I doubt if any voter outside the ranks of the /true Believers cares very much, as long as he can oust the present incumbents.
  • Eirenist wrote: »
    I doubt if any voter outside the ranks of the /true Believers cares very much, as long as he can oust the present incumbents.

    This.
  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    Eirenist wrote: »
    I doubt if any voter outside the ranks of the /true Believers cares very much, as long as he can oust the present incumbents.

    Not right now, no. But they'll wonder why things are still shit in 5 years' time.
  • I doubt if we'll be worrying about who is socialist and who is not, in 5 years' time.

    We'll be lucky (or not, depending on your POV) to still be alive.
  • Even a government that was hand-picked by me to suit my political prejudices would be limited in what it could do, given the very tight fiscal corset that this country has willingly laced itself into over the last decade or so.

    Some no-cost reforms could be carried out, but then you have to overcome the political opposition to change, which is extraordinarily common in this country. Only today I was reading about a proposed new railway station. You might think that would be uncontroversial. But no, people are arguing the toss over whether it is a good idea/necessary or not.

    All I expect is that a future government shall have minimal corruption. Even that is a big ask, given human nature.
  • A government with minimal corruption used to be something we could more-or-less rely on.

    How times have changed.
    :disappointed:
  • Corruption has always been there, in one form or another, and always will be. It must be constantly stamped on.
  • Yes, indeed, but it seems that in these Dark Days, nothing is True unless Sushi Rinak says it is so. If He says (in His infinite wisdom) that there is no corruption, then we must accept that this is the Truth.

    John Crace in today's Guardian:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/jan/02/jimmy-dimly-lights-our-way-to-the-glorious-gospel-of-rish

    Repent, and believe!
  • Sighthound wrote: »
    It really is absurd and a good example of words losing their meaning. An all-too-common state of affairs in our Alice-in-Wonderland society. Similarly, anyone who supports the UK rejoining the EU is called 'left' even though the real lefties, including the Communist Party of Britain, no less, were strongly in favour of Brexit, while many Conservatives (and conservatives) opposed it.

    It's such a bizarre world I am glad I am old and won't be here to see the 'Fall of Rome' - so to speak.

    The EU as a whole is somewhat to the political left of the UK average, so from that point of view, "rejoining the EU" looks like a "left" policy, as it hitches the UK more tightly to a political entity that is on average to the left of the UK.

    People who like to make this complaint also like to talk about being happy with the EEC when it was "just" a trade bloc, but they don't want interference from the EU with regard to things like providing rights to workers.

    As always, what the EU documents say, how the UK government interprets them, and how they are portrayed in the media are three rather different things.
  • Sighthound wrote: »
    Only today I was reading about a proposed new railway station. You might think that would be uncontroversial. But no, people are arguing the toss over whether it is a good idea/necessary or not.

    Presumably some people live near the site of this proposed rail station, and so would be adversely affected by both the construction of the station, and by the increased traffic in their area caused by people using the station.

    They might also benefit from the better transport links caused by the presence of the station - both in terms of increased property value, and in terms of the actual utility of being able to more easily travel to places by rail.

    People will naturally disagree about whether the benefits are worth the costs, not least because the amount of benefit an individual person derives from this new station is strongly dependent on where and how they actually want to travel.

    And of course it makes a difference what service is proposed for this new station. A regular commuter service to your local city is a rather different prospect from a twice-a-day wander-slowly-around-the-region route.
  • HugalHugal Shipmate
    Reform UK have called Starmer and Sunak socialist brothers. They even produced a poster of them mixed together. Can’t find it at the moment.
  • Hugal wrote: »
    Reform UK have called Starmer and Sunak socialist brothers. They even produced a poster of them mixed together. Can’t find it at the moment.

    Reform UK are bonkers. If the gods are kind, they'll go the way of the UKippers...
  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    edited January 2024
    Slightly tangential but not as tangential as it ought to be! Some anonymous group of right wing Brexitist nutters was exhorting the world yesterday to write to their MPs to complain that the WHO (World Health Organisation) is an affront to UK 'sovereignty' - whatever that is.

    Worse, there were people confirming that they'd done so.

  • Bonkers.
    :disappointed:

    On an even more unhappy note (well, IMHO), Sushi Rinak says he won't call an general election until the second half of this year.

    O! dread Lord Cthulhu (and dread Lord Yog-Sothoth, if you're not too busy)! Come! Save us from this incessant insanity!
  • Alan Cresswell Alan Cresswell Admin, 8th Day Host
    On an even more unhappy note (well, IMHO), Sushi Rinak says he won't call an general election until the second half of this year.
    Last year's news, 14th November.
  • O - I'd forgotten that. Probably blanked it out subconsciously...
    :grimace:

    I know I should be careful what I wish for, but sooner would surely be better than later...
  • I know I should be careful what I wish for, but sooner would surely be better than later...

    Well, sooner would be better for Labour, which is why Sunak will likely exercise his right under Westminister to go with later.
  • He's still taking a bit of a risk, though, given that there's unlikely to be any real improvement in general, however late he leaves it.

    Still, all he has to do is to say that the cost-of-living crisis is over, the NHS is all tickety-boo, and that all the horrid illegal people have been flown to Rwanda, or Ruritania, because everything that he says IS TRUE...according to some fuckwits, that is...
  • He's still taking a bit of a risk, though, given that there's unlikely to be any real improvement in general, however late he leaves it.

    Still, all he has to do is to say that the cost-of-living crisis is over, the NHS is all tickety-boo, and that all the horrid illegal people have been flown to Rwanda, or Ruritania, because everything that he says IS TRUE...according to some fuckwits, that is...

    I suspect he's in full-on 'something will turn up mode' - having said that, *if* inflation is under 2% in April as somewhere I've seen suggests (but helpfully can't remember where) and *if* the UK somehow dodges a recession that the Eurozone goes into (both big ifs) then something just might turn up - enough to stem some losses, but not enough to win is my guess, but if you've got colleagues wanting their seats saved, probably from his point of view worthwhile I suppose.
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited January 2024
    Yes - fair comment, I think. *Desperation* is his middle name...
  • PigletPiglet All Saints Host, Circus Host
    In an ideal world, the Tories and the Reform f*ckwits would cancel each other out.

    I remember how miffed my late in-laws (traditional, old-fashioned "shire" Tories) were when the Referendum party - Goldsmith's lot - split the Tory vote in Colchester (which had probably been Tory since Roman times), and they got a Liberal MP. :mrgreen:
  • HugalHugal Shipmate
    Politicians of all stripes seem to underestimate social media. Commentators can get hold of factual information. In days gone by if the PM said something you only had the papers and TV news to report on it. Now influencers of all political flavours can get hold of information. Rishi seems not to understand this. If he makes a statement it will be analysed by people who know what they are talking about and some who don’t. He can’t just make a statement and claim it is true.
  • HugalHugal Shipmate
    Sorry to double post. To keep this thread on Rishi I have started a thread on government and social media in Purgatory.
  • In many people's lexicon, 'socialist' means 'anything I dislike.' In other words, it is a mere term of abuse.

    I detect a split between conservatives and the radical right. The problem is that the radical right wants to keep the brand 'Conservative' for themselves as it is a 'trade mark' that a lot of traditional voters will still vote for. But by definition, you cannot be both radical and conservative.

    Hence this tendency to diss moderate one-nation Conservatives as socialists. It's nonsense, but a lot of the hard-of-thinking will swallow it whole as it suits their prejudices. In short, this Conservative government has failed because it is 'socialist' and of course 'socialism' always fails. It's a very comforting doctrine for a certain kind of 'thinker'.

  • It might be argued that socialism fails because turkeys insist on voting for Christmas.
    :disappointed:
  • SighthoundSighthound Shipmate
    edited January 2024
    In my time - this shocks a lot of people - I have met many thoroughly decent Conservatives. Dame Kathleen Ollerenshaw, one-time Chair of the Manchester Education Committee, and a Lord Mayor of that city is an excellent example. A woman who was absolutely devoted to public education.

    I see no current examples of similar people. They may exist, I suppose. But I do know that many people who call themselves Conservatives these days would regard Dame Kathleen as a dangerous leftie.
  • The trouble is that all tories - and there are indeed some who have not sold themselves entirely to Satan - are forever tainted with the fact that they supported (however tacitly) Johnson and Truss...
  • I thought also that all Tories support private wealth and public squalor. OK, they might not call it that.
  • DafydDafyd Hell Host
    The trouble is that all tories - and there are indeed some who have not sold themselves entirely to Satan - are forever tainted with the fact that they supported (however tacitly) Johnson and Truss...
    May I think criticised them both. May has always been a better politician when she hasn't actually had any power.
  • Dafyd wrote: »
    The trouble is that all tories - and there are indeed some who have not sold themselves entirely to Satan - are forever tainted with the fact that they supported (however tacitly) Johnson and Truss...
    May I think criticised them both. May has always been a better politician when she hasn't actually had any power.

    True, perhaps, but she still stayed in the party whilst the Mad King, followed by the Mad Queen, knackered up the country...
  • Where do you place MacMillan, say, or Hesultine? Or, come to that, Butlerand Gauke? They, I think, had their old-style centrist Conservative Pary stolen from under their feet by the post-Thatcherites.
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