The "seven mountains" thinking is also known as Dominionism. And while it's fringe theologically, it's very much embedded in the right wing in the US.
I've been hearing a lot about it and its toxic history from the excellent podcast by Phil Vischer (of Veggietales fame) and Skye Jethani, The Holy Post. Phil was also interviewed for Rob Reiner's documentary about Christian Nationalism, God and Country. The history of this goes back further than I had any idea, and it's ghastly.
@ChastMastr and @churchgeek Dominionism, framed in the glamourous terms of "Manifest Destiny," is deep in our American colonial souls, brought over by the colonizers in the form of the Doctrine of Discovery, which has been enshrined in U.S. law since 1823. The majority population here - to which I belong - has benefitted from it immensely.
It has nothing to do with liberal or conservative politics, but with being American. Now that a few are questioning it, it seems like parties are taking sides in the usual way. However, I don't personally know of any liberals, who are lining up to return their property and land to Indigenous Americans, or seeking to pay reparations to them or descendants of enslaved Americans. In that way we are all conserving evil, and some of us know it. We just talk. As Black Americans have been pointing out since the (U.S.) Civil War at least.
The only non-Indigenous or non-Black Americans I know of, who are making actual efforts in this area are Mennonites.
@Martin54
Or Foucault: Power is Knowledge. (Potentia scientia est.)? (Thanks for the link to the Latin.)
Oooh! But I do like Bacon. Though prefer it as part of an FAB, including eggs, biscuits with jelly, oatmeal with dried fruit and an extra slosh of whole milk and maybe a drizzle of maple syrup.
A few years ago, a local church closed its doors. It had some mineral rights in South Dakota. The land actually belonged to a tribe, though. Long story how the mineral rights were separated from the land. Anyway, once the church closed its doors, the synod council returned the mineral rights to the tribe.
Often, it is little gestures like this that are happening.
@Kendel - Thank you for typing all that up! I'm familiar with both the Doctrine of Discovery and Manifest Destiny; however, Dominionism, while rooted in those, is something different.
As far as I can tell, its adherents are Evangelical Christians. It's characterized by a belief that God expects (conservative) Christians to take dominion of all aspects of society, such as government, education, religious institutions, entertainment/media, etc., and impose conservative Christian beliefs and policies—such as repealing LGBTQIA+ rights, ensuring abortion is fully illegal, etc.
The "seven mountains" thinking is also known as Dominionism. And while it's fringe theologically, it's very much embedded in the right wing in the US.
I've been hearing a lot about it and its toxic history from the excellent podcast by Phil Vischer (of Veggietales fame) and Skye Jethani, The Holy Post. Phil was also interviewed for Rob Reiner's documentary about Christian Nationalism, God and Country. The history of this goes back further than I had any idea, and it's ghastly.
@ChastMastr and @churchgeek Dominionism, framed in the glamourous terms of "Manifest Destiny," is deep in our American colonial souls, brought over by the colonizers in the form of the Doctrine of Discovery, which has been enshrined in U.S. law since 1823. The majority population here - to which I belong - has benefitted from it immensely.
It has nothing to do with liberal or conservative politics, but with being American. Now that a few are questioning it, it seems like parties are taking sides in the usual way. However, I don't personally know of any liberals, who are lining up to return their property and land to Indigenous Americans, or seeking to pay reparations to them or descendants of enslaved Americans. In that way we are all conserving evil, and some of us know it. We just talk. As Black Americans have been pointing out since the (U.S.) Civil War at least.
The only non-Indigenous or non-Black Americans I know of, who are making actual efforts in this area are Mennonites.
@Martin54
Or Foucault: Power is Knowledge. (Potentia scientia est.)? (Thanks for the link to the Latin.)
Oooh! But I do like Bacon. Though prefer it as part of an FAB, including eggs, biscuits with jelly, oatmeal with dried fruit and an extra slosh of whole milk and maybe a drizzle of maple syrup.
'Biscuits with jelly' mean something entirely different this side of the Pond.
I've only been to New York. I liked the bagels but the bacon was nowhere near as tasty as what we can get over here. I suspect it varies. Food in London can be equally uninspiring.
On the Dominionism thing. What @churchgeek said. It's got roots in Manifest Destiny but has morphed and gone on steroids.
In a similar way charismatic/Pentecostal style prosperity-gospelism has its roots in earlier antecedents and forms of 'New Thought' but ratcheted it up with the addition of magical-thinking and whacko-jackery.
This kind of loopiness is not a purely North American phenomenon, of course but somehow there is 'space' there for these things to become supersized and gargantuan. Although European history has hardly been an unblemished sequence of sweetness and light.
The Mennonites strike me as being pretty good on this sort of thing overall. I think we can all learn a lot from the 'peace churches'.
@Martin54 , this is what I had read lately regarding knowledge/power:
As he clarifies, he does not mean that knowledge and power are identical; instead, he means to emphasize the inextricable relationship between knowledge and power. Knowledge, or what counts as knowledge, is not neutrally determined. Instead, what counts as knowledge is constituted within networks of power— social, political, and economic. As he states near the beginning of Discipline and Punish, we should give up the notion that power leads to madness; quite to the contrary, “we should admit rather that power produces knowledge (and not simply by encouraging it because it serves power or by applying it because it is useful); that power and knowledge directly imply one another; that there is no power relation without the correlative constitution of a field of knowledge, nor any knowledge that does not presuppose and constitute at the same time power relations” (Discipline and Punish, 28). Thus Foucault regularly speaks of “power-knowledge relations” or the “nexus” of power/knowledge.
[Slightly edited]
(James K. A. Smith, Who's Afraid of Postmodernism)
I think Foucault's thoughts rather than Bacon's might be closer to yours.
Foucault's thoughts also seem related to what I think underlies the problem @Gramps49 identified in the OP and why the stakes feel so high for those on any side. We might not articulate the problem as Foucault did, but we understand implicitly that having power means a lot more than having the muscle to enforce demands.
'Biscuits with jelly' mean something entirely different this side of the Pond.
I've only been to New York. I liked the bagels but the bacon was nowhere near as tasty as what we can get over here. I suspect it varies. Food in London can be equally uninspiring.
I couldn't resist @Gamma Gamaliel ! Cookies spread with jello or aspic does sound gross.
You guys do know what biscuits are in the U.S, right? A fluffy quick kind of bread leavened with bakng powder rather than yeast. It's similar to a scone, but not sweet. FRESH biscuits are THE perfect conveyor of butter and strawberry preserves into the human mouth.
'Biscuits with jelly' mean something entirely different this side of the Pond.
I've only been to New York. I liked the bagels but the bacon was nowhere near as tasty as what we can get over here. I suspect it varies. Food in London can be equally uninspiring.
I couldn't resist @Gamma Gamaliel ! Cookies spread with jello or aspic does sound gross.
You guys do know what biscuits are in the U.S, right? A fluffy quick kind of bread leavened with bakng powder rather than yeast. It's similar to a scone, but not sweet. FRESH biscuits are THE perfect conveyor of butter and strawberry preserves into the human mouth.
Back to far more serious matters.
That could be understood as dogfood here. Or a kid's party. I know what I'd prefer.
Ha ha! I have no idea what 'jello' or 'aspic' are but I do know what 'biscuits' are in the US. Rather like dumplings over here by the sound of it.
No, not unless British dumplings are quite different from dumplings here. As @Kendel said, American biscuits are very similar to British scones, but not as sweet.
“Jell-O” is a brand name for quick flavored gelatins; as happens with many brand names, “jello” has become the generic word for quick flavored gelatins.
“Aspic” is a savory gelatin dish, typically served as a salad. Tomato aspic was a staple of ladies’ luncheons in the American South in the 50s, 60s and 70s. It is a vile, horrid thing.
Aspic is basically stock with a gelling agent. It was mainly used thus. A pate or some such is surrounded by a roux based sauce and that is covered in aspic.
Ha ha! I have no idea what 'jello' or 'aspic' are but I do know what 'biscuits' are in the US. Rather like dumplings over here by the sound of it.
No, not unless British dumplings are quite different from dumplings here. As @Kendel said, American biscuits are very similar to British scones, but not as sweet.
I don't believe scones have any sugar added, do they? When they're sweet it's because they have fruit or so on added rather than because the dough is sweetened.
I don't believe scones have any sugar added, do they? When they're sweet it's because they have fruit or so on added rather than because the dough is sweetened.
Maybe fruit scones are the answer to Christain nationalism???
I wish.
Unfortunately, most things English, get automatic extra credit for being more sophisticated. They are a class marker here. Y'all have high tea, castles and all, and titles, and a king, and gothic with stain glass, .......
Which means, when I am ordering a scone to go with my coffee here, I am indicating I"m a bit better than the rest of the slobs around me. I have more power; hey! I even know what a scone is and that it's classier than eating a biscuit, even a cheese biscuit.
Continuing on with the scone straight to justifying "c"N:
And, hey!, the Church of England is headed by the King, isn't it? He runs the church and the country! -- well at least he used to. As it is supposed to be. Therefore christians should be directing the U.S. into obedience to God's commands (at least the ones we value most).
See how even a treat can be a "justification" for "c" N?
American vocab:
Jelly -- clear forms of jam or marmelade, strained of all fruit pulp. Jam is made from mashed or cooked down fruit. Marmelade is similar but can also include peel instead of or in addition to fruit pulp. Preserves contains whole berries or chunks of fruit, frequently made from strawberries, raspberries, cherries or peaches.
Jello -- Jell-O, stylised as JELL-O, is an American brand offering a variety of powdered gelatin dessert (fruit-flavored gels/jellies), pudding, and no-bake cream pie mixes. (from Wikipedia).
It can be incorporated into a broad array of colorful concoctions. I still love rainbow finger jello. I hate the gastly rubberized "salads" my great aunt and cousin made, which contained things like finely chopped green onion, celery, sweet red pepper, green pepper, all imprisoned in a wobbling mold of lemon- or lime-flavored jello.
Jello (as well as unflavored granulated geletin) is "quick" as in "fast"; it doesn't require the hours long preparation of boiling (usually beef) bones and geletin-containing connective tissues to recover geletin that can be used to thicken meat juice used for aspics.
To what extent has ideas of Christian Nationalism taken root in what we might call 'mainstream' US churches and denominations?
There's always that problem of what counts as "mainstream" isn't there? And whether "my" church is mainstream/the norm.
Likewise, the degree of "christian" nationalism is at issue (I think).
We could look for statistics, but it's hard to demonstrate exactly what the "pew level" feel is in a church. What's going on in people's heads vs what's coming from the pulpit, the Sunday school teachers, in discussions over coffee, in Bible studies during the week? I don't think I've heard a sermon in the churches I've called "home" that I would say was overtly promoting "christian" nationalism, but was it implied? Likely sometimes. Was it received that way by some portion of the congegation? Certainly. We hear what we want to hear, or translate what we hear through what we think already.
Variables include the variation of "c"N and the "intensity". Are we talking full take-over of "every square inch" of U.S. culture and governance or something less complete?
Are they arming themselves to force the issue (peace and love in Jesus' name, of course), or are they talking?
I can talk about my impression from the independent Baptist churches I've been in my whole life and the PCA church I'm part of for the last 2 years, but the church world here is wide. My experience is very limited.
Apologies, but @Kendel has brought the question of 'nationalism' into the equation, insofar as she observes how perceptions of 'Englishness' in relation to scones are taken as evidence for sophistication in the US when compared with indigeneous fare like 'biscuits'.
I'm pretty sure the US version would have been known on both sides of the Atlantic at one time. Ship's biscuit or 'hard tack' wasn't what Americans would call 'cookies' or British people would call 'biscuits' today.
But back to the plot ...
It came as a complete surprise to me a few years ago to encounter US Episcopalians online who made a big deal out of the idea of monarchy, who had a bit thing about 'King Charles I, King and Martyr' and who seemed to believe that the US would benefit from having a monarchy.
I put this down to a residual eccentricity inherited from their colonial past.
I wanted to cite all those verses in the Hebrew scriptures which indicate objections to the idea. 'Are you sure you want a king?'
Unlike many British Shipmates I'm not opposed to the monarchy or the Royal Family per se - although I do think there are much needed reforms. But neither would I want to 'export' monarchy as a model anywhere else.
I also get the impression that 'monarchist' tendencies among some US Christians - particularly the Orthodox who've had an influx of former hyper-Calvinist 'Confederate'-leaning right-wing whackoes in recent years - is rather more sinister than simple eccentricity. I suppose it was only a matter of time before a kind of Byzantine Caesaro-papism met 'city on a hill' style hyper-Calvinist Puritanism and produced a hybrid monster.
As a 'melting pot' the US is bound to produce some tasty stews and cross-overs as well as philosophical or theological mixes that are going to be pungent or even downright toxic.
The theological or philosophical equivalent of @Kendel's great aunt's and cousin's 'salads'.
That's not to point the finger at the US. They've turned some base metals into gold. Or come up with amazing cultural and artistic fusions such as jazz.
But wild and loopy ideas that were already current among the original colonists or subsequent migrants were going to take root and turn into weeds or tares or else be transformed into something more beneficial. As with the Parable, it's hard to root out the weeds without damaging the crops.
At the risk of sounding too eschatalogical, 'the harvest is the end of the age.'
In the meantime, I suppose we can do our best to cultivate our own plots and hopefully, by example, influence the dudes in the next plot.
In the meantime, I suppose we can do our best to cultivate our own plots and hopefully, by example, influence the dudes in the next plot.
Thanks, @Gamma Gamaliel.
This is rock bottom. It might not work by itself, but this should be "the very least."
We need to start thinking more creatively about how best to weed our own gardens so they are what they should be in every way we can make them, but also how we can use them to serve others of all kinds, whether they get it or not.
To what extent has ideas of Christian Nationalism taken root in what we might call 'mainstream' US churches and denominations?
There's a spectrum in terms of involvement and influence. Dominionism is better known and gets a lot of press, but the offshoots of Christian Reconstruction have more real influence in terms of things like the production and take up of home schooling curriculum and training and placing people through the Federalist society etc.
There's no real sense in which the Great American Redoubt is going to secede any time soon - even as the Pacific North West tends to head rightwards politically. OTOH there's a network of organisations, some of whom are heavily influenced by Christian Nationalism which work along with people and organisations on the further and far right to drive policy, both within the the US, the Republican Party and further overseas via things like the National Conservatism conferences and the MCC in Orban's Hungary.
What I would appreciate most is if the rest of American Christianity would get organized, step-up, get loud, and denounce these CN asshats more openly, more aggressively, and more regularly. Secular America cannot be the only and/or most prominent opposition to CN.
I've been privileged to have access to certain media IRL, and I've... worked to undercut it? Still, I'm tasked with taking the positive view (that is, saying what is good and pointing people to that, rather than denouncing what is bad except by very strong implication). But I'm hoping what I've been able to do will be useful, especially in an election year.
I've been reading Jame's K.A. Smith's book "Who's Afraid of Postmodernism?" and thought this quote fit well here as an "answer to "christian" nationalism.
The primary responsibility of the church as witness, then, is not demonstration but rather proclamation—the kerygmatic vocation of proclaiming the Word made flesh rather than the thin realities of theism that a supposedly neutral reason yields.
To put it another way, unless our apologetic proclamation begins from revelation, we have conceded the game to modernity. On this score, I side with an even earlier Parisian philosopher and proto-postmodernist, Blaise Pascal, who adamantly protested that the God revealed in the incarnation and the Scriptures—the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jesus Christ—is to be distinguished from the (modern) god of philosophical theism. But even more importantly, this new apologetic—which is, in fact, ancient—is one that is proclaimed by a community’s way of life. As Peter Leithart has remarked, “The first and chief defense of the gospel, the first ‘letter of commendation’ not only for Paul but for Jesus, is not an argument but the life of the church conformed to Christ by the Spirit in service and suffering.” The church doesn’t have an apologetic; it is an apologetic.
Smith, James K. A.. Who's Afraid of Postmodernism? (The Church and Postmodern Culture): Taking Derrida, Lyotard, and Foucault to Church (pp. 28-29). Baker Publishing Group. Kindle Edition. [Emphasis added.]
If the Church (as I know it) is to operate in any way as an apologetic for the Word made flesh, it must change.
The difficulty for us on the ship in particular is that it’s very hard for us to demonstrate the gospel in our lives and be observed. I mean, you can certainly see how we behave on the Ship, though that’s a pretty limited arena of action. But How are people to know—really know—what we do in real life? Because no one wants to boast and brag. And how could you be sure the self report was believable, anyway?
This to my mind is one of the chief drawbacks of internet evangelism. You can’t see what we’re really like—or only in a mirror, dimly.
This just in (yesterday). The former president of the U.S. is hawking a Bible now that includes the U.S. Constitution, Declaration of Independence, Pledge of Allegiance and the only divinely inspired English translation of the Bible, the KJV (yeah, that last bit of commentary was my sarcasm).
Ruth Braunstein, associate professor of sociology at the University of Connecticut and director of the Meanings of Democracy Lab, said that the God Bless the USA Bible appeals to “God and country” religion — but can be used to promote more radical forms of Christian nationalism — the idea that America belongs to Christians and that Christians have the right to run the country.
“It’s one thing to say (or sing along to) ‘God Bless the USA’ and quite another to say (as Trump did in his announcement video), that ‘All Americans need a Bible in their home,'” she said in an email. “This is not just promoting religion in general, which would perhaps draw criticism but still be considered within the pale. He is using his position as the former President to endorse a specific form of religiosity, to sell a Christian Bible.”
"Make America pray again," from the mouth of a wanna-be leader is chilling, even for me who prays.
I suspected they might be. But it's a heck of a stretch.
Where does it end?
Bikers' Bible?
There are already more than one ‘Bikers Bible’s but you can have all the rest. These things are equal parts McGavran's Homogeneous Unit Principle and Branding, the more serious point is that the market for the branding is one indicator of the attractiveness of the ideas.
God bless the USA Bible
Includes the Declaration of Independence
The Constitution of the United States of America
The Pledge of Allegiance
Only Bible endorsed by Donald J Trump
Proceeds to help defray legal defense costs
Such as the pending trial for the Stormy Daniels cover up trial.
Wow! The Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution are holy writ.
Did they drop down from heaven like the Book of Mormon or were the Founding Fathers divinely inspired?
I'm wondering when someone is going to publish a He Has Shown You, O Man What Is Good and What doth The Lord Require Of You But To Act Justly and Love Mercy and Walk Humbly with Your God Bible.
Wow! The Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution are holy writ.
Did they drop down from heaven like the Book of Mormon or were the Founding Fathers divinely inspired?
I'm wondering when someone is going to publish a He Has Shown You, O Man What Is Good and What doth The Lord Require Of You But To Act Justly and Love Mercy and Walk Humbly with Your God Bible.
Oh, wait...
There are Mormons who genuinely believe that the Founding Fathers were divinely inspired when they wrote the Declaration and Constitution. Sometimes these Mormons cause headaches for everyone. The Bundy Standoff ten years ago (!!! time moves too fast) featured some of that thinking.
It's kind of amazing that it's taken as long as it has to go from this to the "God & Country" Bible. The idea that its proceeds are being used to pay Tr*mp's legal fees is a chef's kiss indeed -- right up there with his MAGA & "USA" merch being made in China.
God bless the USA Bible
Includes the Declaration of Independence
The Constitution of the United States of America
The Pledge of Allegiance
Only Bible endorsed by Donald J Trump
Proceeds to help defray legal defense costs
Such as the pending trial for the Stormy Daniels cover up trial.
I'm wondering when someone is going to publish a He Has Shown You, O Man What Is Good and What doth The Lord Require Of You But To Act Justly and Love Mercy and Walk Humbly with Your God Bible.
Oh, wait...
Maybe lost in storage back behind the choir robes and AIG VBS programming materials.
God bless the USA Bible
Includes the Declaration of Independence
The Constitution of the United States of America
The Pledge of Allegiance
Only Bible endorsed by Donald J Trump
Proceeds to help defray legal defense costs
Such as the pending trial for the Stormy Daniels cover up trial.
Comments
https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/trump-tweets-quote-calling-him-the-second-coming-of-god-to-jews-in-israel/
Yes, but only Trump. They're not saying that any victor is divinely appointed, only their preferred one.
@ChastMastr and @churchgeek Dominionism, framed in the glamourous terms of "Manifest Destiny," is deep in our American colonial souls, brought over by the colonizers in the form of the Doctrine of Discovery, which has been enshrined in U.S. law since 1823. The majority population here - to which I belong - has benefitted from it immensely.
It has nothing to do with liberal or conservative politics, but with being American. Now that a few are questioning it, it seems like parties are taking sides in the usual way. However, I don't personally know of any liberals, who are lining up to return their property and land to Indigenous Americans, or seeking to pay reparations to them or descendants of enslaved Americans. In that way we are all conserving evil, and some of us know it. We just talk. As Black Americans have been pointing out since the (U.S.) Civil War at least.
The only non-Indigenous or non-Black Americans I know of, who are making actual efforts in this area are Mennonites.
@Martin54
Or Foucault: Power is Knowledge. (Potentia scientia est.)? (Thanks for the link to the Latin.)
Oooh! But I do like Bacon. Though prefer it as part of an FAB, including eggs, biscuits with jelly, oatmeal with dried fruit and an extra slosh of whole milk and maybe a drizzle of maple syrup.
Often, it is little gestures like this that are happening.
A number of tribes are buying up land that had belonged to them before they were forced into reservations. Look up the Department of Interior's land buy back program.
As far as I can tell, its adherents are Evangelical Christians. It's characterized by a belief that God expects (conservative) Christians to take dominion of all aspects of society, such as government, education, religious institutions, entertainment/media, etc., and impose conservative Christian beliefs and policies—such as repealing LGBTQIA+ rights, ensuring abortion is fully illegal, etc.
Google is full of articles about it; here's one. Here's another.
It's not the same as the Doctrine of Discovery or Manifest Destiny, though, like I said, it has roots in them.
It's decidedly a conservative movement, backs right-wing Christian candidates only, and takes aim at liberal politics and policies.
And it's not all that fringe. It's deep in the current GOP.
You're loving in your own private Idaho.
Meanwhile...
'Biscuits with jelly' mean something entirely different this side of the Pond.
I've only been to New York. I liked the bagels but the bacon was nowhere near as tasty as what we can get over here. I suspect it varies. Food in London can be equally uninspiring.
On the Dominionism thing. What @churchgeek said. It's got roots in Manifest Destiny but has morphed and gone on steroids.
In a similar way charismatic/Pentecostal style prosperity-gospelism has its roots in earlier antecedents and forms of 'New Thought' but ratcheted it up with the addition of magical-thinking and whacko-jackery.
This kind of loopiness is not a purely North American phenomenon, of course but somehow there is 'space' there for these things to become supersized and gargantuan. Although European history has hardly been an unblemished sequence of sweetness and light.
The Mennonites strike me as being pretty good on this sort of thing overall. I think we can all learn a lot from the 'peace churches'.
@Martin54 , this is what I had read lately regarding knowledge/power: (James K. A. Smith, Who's Afraid of Postmodernism)
I think Foucault's thoughts rather than Bacon's might be closer to yours.
Foucault's thoughts also seem related to what I think underlies the problem @Gramps49 identified in the OP and why the stakes feel so high for those on any side. We might not articulate the problem as Foucault did, but we understand implicitly that having power means a lot more than having the muscle to enforce demands.
I couldn't resist @Gamma Gamaliel ! Cookies spread with jello or aspic does sound gross.
You guys do know what biscuits are in the U.S, right? A fluffy quick kind of bread leavened with bakng powder rather than yeast. It's similar to a scone, but not sweet. FRESH biscuits are THE perfect conveyor of butter and strawberry preserves into the human mouth.
Back to far more serious matters.
That could be understood as dogfood here. Or a kid's party. I know what I'd prefer.
But yes ... back to more serious matters ...
“Jell-O” is a brand name for quick flavored gelatins; as happens with many brand names, “jello” has become the generic word for quick flavored gelatins.
“Aspic” is a savory gelatin dish, typically served as a salad. Tomato aspic was a staple of ladies’ luncheons in the American South in the 50s, 60s and 70s. It is a vile, horrid thing.
Which brings us back to Christian nationalism.
Not all scones are sweet - I love a cheese scone.
Fruit scones do usually have some sugar added.
la vie en rouge, Purgatory host
I've had quince flavour ...
I've heard of the 'quick and the dead' but have no idea what 'quick' means in the context @Nick Tamen is using it.
But to get back to Purgatorial discussion ...
To what extent has ideas of Christian Nationalism taken root in what we might call 'mainstream' US churches and denominations?
I believe it mostly refers to speed of preparation.
I wish.
Unfortunately, most things English, get automatic extra credit for being more sophisticated. They are a class marker here. Y'all have high tea, castles and all, and titles, and a king, and gothic with stain glass, .......
Which means, when I am ordering a scone to go with my coffee here, I am indicating I"m a bit better than the rest of the slobs around me. I have more power; hey! I even know what a scone is and that it's classier than eating a biscuit, even a cheese biscuit.
Continuing on with the scone straight to justifying "c"N:
And, hey!, the Church of England is headed by the King, isn't it? He runs the church and the country! -- well at least he used to. As it is supposed to be. Therefore christians should be directing the U.S. into obedience to God's commands (at least the ones we value most).
See how even a treat can be a "justification" for "c" N?
American vocab:
Jelly -- clear forms of jam or marmelade, strained of all fruit pulp. Jam is made from mashed or cooked down fruit. Marmelade is similar but can also include peel instead of or in addition to fruit pulp. Preserves contains whole berries or chunks of fruit, frequently made from strawberries, raspberries, cherries or peaches.
Jello -- Jell-O, stylised as JELL-O, is an American brand offering a variety of powdered gelatin dessert (fruit-flavored gels/jellies), pudding, and no-bake cream pie mixes. (from Wikipedia).
It can be incorporated into a broad array of colorful concoctions. I still love rainbow finger jello. I hate the gastly rubberized "salads" my great aunt and cousin made, which contained things like finely chopped green onion, celery, sweet red pepper, green pepper, all imprisoned in a wobbling mold of lemon- or lime-flavored jello.
Jello (as well as unflavored granulated geletin) is "quick" as in "fast"; it doesn't require the hours long preparation of boiling (usually beef) bones and geletin-containing connective tissues to recover geletin that can be used to thicken meat juice used for aspics.
More than anyone ever wanted to know.
Thanks
la vie en rouge, Purgatory host
There's always that problem of what counts as "mainstream" isn't there? And whether "my" church is mainstream/the norm.
Likewise, the degree of "christian" nationalism is at issue (I think).
We could look for statistics, but it's hard to demonstrate exactly what the "pew level" feel is in a church. What's going on in people's heads vs what's coming from the pulpit, the Sunday school teachers, in discussions over coffee, in Bible studies during the week? I don't think I've heard a sermon in the churches I've called "home" that I would say was overtly promoting "christian" nationalism, but was it implied? Likely sometimes. Was it received that way by some portion of the congegation? Certainly. We hear what we want to hear, or translate what we hear through what we think already.
Variables include the variation of "c"N and the "intensity". Are we talking full take-over of "every square inch" of U.S. culture and governance or something less complete?
Are they arming themselves to force the issue (peace and love in Jesus' name, of course), or are they talking?
I can talk about my impression from the independent Baptist churches I've been in my whole life and the PCA church I'm part of for the last 2 years, but the church world here is wide. My experience is very limited.
I'm pretty sure the US version would have been known on both sides of the Atlantic at one time. Ship's biscuit or 'hard tack' wasn't what Americans would call 'cookies' or British people would call 'biscuits' today.
But back to the plot ...
It came as a complete surprise to me a few years ago to encounter US Episcopalians online who made a big deal out of the idea of monarchy, who had a bit thing about 'King Charles I, King and Martyr' and who seemed to believe that the US would benefit from having a monarchy.
I put this down to a residual eccentricity inherited from their colonial past.
I wanted to cite all those verses in the Hebrew scriptures which indicate objections to the idea. 'Are you sure you want a king?'
Unlike many British Shipmates I'm not opposed to the monarchy or the Royal Family per se - although I do think there are much needed reforms. But neither would I want to 'export' monarchy as a model anywhere else.
I also get the impression that 'monarchist' tendencies among some US Christians - particularly the Orthodox who've had an influx of former hyper-Calvinist 'Confederate'-leaning right-wing whackoes in recent years - is rather more sinister than simple eccentricity. I suppose it was only a matter of time before a kind of Byzantine Caesaro-papism met 'city on a hill' style hyper-Calvinist Puritanism and produced a hybrid monster.
As a 'melting pot' the US is bound to produce some tasty stews and cross-overs as well as philosophical or theological mixes that are going to be pungent or even downright toxic.
The theological or philosophical equivalent of @Kendel's great aunt's and cousin's 'salads'.
That's not to point the finger at the US. They've turned some base metals into gold. Or come up with amazing cultural and artistic fusions such as jazz.
But wild and loopy ideas that were already current among the original colonists or subsequent migrants were going to take root and turn into weeds or tares or else be transformed into something more beneficial. As with the Parable, it's hard to root out the weeds without damaging the crops.
At the risk of sounding too eschatalogical, 'the harvest is the end of the age.'
In the meantime, I suppose we can do our best to cultivate our own plots and hopefully, by example, influence the dudes in the next plot.
Thanks, @Gamma Gamaliel.
This is rock bottom. It might not work by itself, but this should be "the very least."
We need to start thinking more creatively about how best to weed our own gardens so they are what they should be in every way we can make them, but also how we can use them to serve others of all kinds, whether they get it or not.
There's a spectrum in terms of involvement and influence. Dominionism is better known and gets a lot of press, but the offshoots of Christian Reconstruction have more real influence in terms of things like the production and take up of home schooling curriculum and training and placing people through the Federalist society etc.
There's no real sense in which the Great American Redoubt is going to secede any time soon - even as the Pacific North West tends to head rightwards politically. OTOH there's a network of organisations, some of whom are heavily influenced by Christian Nationalism which work along with people and organisations on the further and far right to drive policy, both within the the US, the Republican Party and further overseas via things like the National Conservatism conferences and the MCC in Orban's Hungary.
Smith, James K. A.. Who's Afraid of Postmodernism? (The Church and Postmodern Culture): Taking Derrida, Lyotard, and Foucault to Church (pp. 28-29). Baker Publishing Group. Kindle Edition. [Emphasis added.]
If the Church (as I know it) is to operate in any way as an apologetic for the Word made flesh, it must change.
I must change.
The difficulty for us on the ship in particular is that it’s very hard for us to demonstrate the gospel in our lives and be observed. I mean, you can certainly see how we behave on the Ship, though that’s a pretty limited arena of action. But How are people to know—really know—what we do in real life? Because no one wants to boast and brag. And how could you be sure the self report was believable, anyway?
This to my mind is one of the chief drawbacks of internet evangelism. You can’t see what we’re really like—or only in a mirror, dimly.
"Make America pray again," from the mouth of a wanna-be leader is chilling, even for me who prays.
What the ...?!
Is this a thing? I mean really ...?
Branded bibles targeted at specific demographics have long been big business in the US (though the more recent niche is that of premium bibles)
Where does it end?
Bikers' Bible?
Bald Bloke Bible?
The Nerd Bible ...
Hey, where do I sign up for this franchise?
There are already more than one ‘Bikers Bible’s but you can have all the rest. These things are equal parts McGavran's Homogeneous Unit Principle and Branding, the more serious point is that the market for the branding is one indicator of the attractiveness of the ideas.
Includes the Declaration of Independence
The Constitution of the United States of America
The Pledge of Allegiance
Only Bible endorsed by Donald J Trump
Proceeds to help defray legal defense costs
Such as the pending trial for the Stormy Daniels cover up trial.
More information at https://godblesstheusabible.com/
Did they drop down from heaven like the Book of Mormon or were the Founding Fathers divinely inspired?
I'm wondering when someone is going to publish a He Has Shown You, O Man What Is Good and What doth The Lord Require Of You But To Act Justly and Love Mercy and Walk Humbly with Your God Bible.
Oh, wait...
There are Mormons who genuinely believe that the Founding Fathers were divinely inspired when they wrote the Declaration and Constitution. Sometimes these Mormons cause headaches for everyone. The Bundy Standoff ten years ago (!!! time moves too fast) featured some of that thinking.
The ONLY Bible endorsed by Donald J Trump—makes one wonder if he’s taken his Sharpie to parts of it (like the word “not” in Commandment 7).
Maybe lost in storage back behind the choir robes and AIG VBS programming materials.
For real
Unfortunately, you are probably right.