No, Frodo's sword from the barrow didn't melt away. He only cut the Ringwraith's robe, 'All blades perish that pierce the deadly king', said Aragorn. The blade broke as the Ringwraith's command at the ford of Rivendell, as previously pointed out.
Curiously, blades that hit the top Ringwraith vanished (Frodo's, Eowyn's, Merry's) but Narsil, although broken, survived removing Sauron's finger,
It was probably a much more magical blade. Woven with elven words.
The others were more normal blades.
Also - story requirements.
Frodo's barrow blade never struck the witch-king. At one point it pierced his cloak, but the blade survived that. It was later shattered by a spell. Éowyn's blade did not vanish, it was described as having "broke sharply into many shards", which sounds a lot like what happened to Narsil. Merry's barrow blade is described as "smoking like a dry branch that has been thrust in a fire; and as he watched it, it writhed and withered and was consumed", so that's the only example we have of a blade striking the witch-king actually vanishing.
As for the differing qualities of the various swords (or re-purposed daggers) carried by the hobbits, we have an illustration of this in Shelob's lair. It takes several hefty swings of Sam's barrow blade to sever even a single strand of Shelob's web, but Sting easily cuts through multiple strands "like a scythe through grass".
I have an unrelated question. We are told that Frodo has a coat of mithril, and mithril is described in glowing terms. I have often thought that mithril is aluminum, which is strong, lightweight, unrusting, and hard to refine before the advent of electrical technology. Does that make sense?
I have an unrelated question. We are told that Frodo has a coat of mithril, and mithril is described in glowing terms. I have often thought that mithril is aluminum, which is strong, lightweight, unrusting, and hard to refine before the advent of electrical technology. Does that make sense?
No. Aluminium is soft, and wouldn't make good armor. A decent sword would slice through an aluminium mail coat.
I have an unrelated question. We are told that Frodo has a coat of mithril, and mithril is described in glowing terms. I have often thought that mithril is aluminum, which is strong, lightweight, unrusting, and hard to refine before the advent of electrical technology. Does that make sense?
To a certain degree. Mithril is very versatile. The very hard steel-like version is just one application.
It could be beaten like copper, and polished like glass; and the Dwarves could make of it a metal, light and yet harder than tempered steel. Its beauty was like to that of common silver, but the beauty of mithril did not tarnish or grow dim.
- FotR, A Journey in the Dark
The phrase "make of it" implies that Frodo's mail coat is an alloy containing mithril, not pure mithril. It is sometimes referred to in the text as "mithril steel", which would seem to imply this alloyed nature. Mithril was also used in creating ithildin, the substance that reflects only moonlight and starlight found on the west gate of Khazad-Dûm, and Nenya, the ring of power worn by Galadriel. It's never explicitly stated in the text that I'm aware of, but I wouldn't be surprised if the moon-letters on Thorin's map in The Hobbit was another application of mithril.
Aluminum might be a good candidate given its low density, ductility, and resistance to oxidation. It falls down on the question of hardness, though. Titanium is another candidate, being lower density than steel, resistant to oxidation, and also harder than steel. It's similarly difficult to refine absent modern technology. Where titanium falls down is that it's not very ductile, thus could not be "beaten like copper". So imagine something as light and ductile as aluminum but (in alloy form) as hard as (or harder than) titanium.
I’m assuming mithril is its own thing rather than another name for an ordinary real-world metal.
I assume that, but there is also some similarity to existing materials. And in Tolkiens day, the uses of Aluminium for example would have been surprising. So I suspect he drew from that, and wondered about a material that had the properties of both lightness and strength.
Also, it was an alloy, and the dwearves were very talented in this work, so it could have been anything.
In our historical re-enactment group, we called aluminium chainmail 'mithril'.
Most members had to use proper iron chainmail - because I got to shows on the bus or train, laden down with kit, I was allowed to use mithril.
I’m assuming mithril is its own thing rather than another name for an ordinary real-world metal.
I assume that, but there is also some similarity to existing materials. And in Tolkiens day, the uses of Aluminium for example would have been surprising. So I suspect he drew from that, and wondered about a material that had the properties of both lightness and strength.
Also, it was an alloy, and the dwearves were very talented in this work, so it could have been anything.
The Chemist graduate in me boringly tells me there is no place in the Periodic table that Mithril' can be fitted into. So a pure metal could not have all the'Mithril-like'. characteristics. Titanium comes close , but it is easily corroded by Chlorine compounds. All an 'orrible Orc needed to penetrate Frodo's Mithril coat would have been a salt spray (or even a Pental pen) and wait. Aeroplanes with Titanium need special tools for servicing.
Alloys though ... some of the latest 'meta-alloys' and ceramic composites being developed for jet turbines do (at last) come close to Mithril's wonderful properties.
If you can develop a seeing stone such an alloy would be easy!
PS: I have three heart valves with Titanium in them. As I'm struggling I wish they were made of Mithril. I shall suggest this when I see the cardiac surgeon later this month!
No, Frodo's sword from the barrow didn't melt away. He only cut the Ringwraith's robe, 'All blades perish that pierce the deadly king', said Aragorn. The blade broke as the Ringwraith's command at the ford of Rivendell, as previously pointed out.
No, Frodo's sword from the barrow didn't melt away. He only cut the Ringwraith's robe, 'All blades perish that pierce the deadly king', said Aragorn. The blade broke as the Ringwraith's command at the ford of Rivendell, as previously pointed out.
That's not helpful. So which blade melted away?
We've got three descriptions of blades perishing in unusual ways, all of them in some relation to the Witch-King. As I noted earlier, Merry's blade "writhed and withered and was consumed", which isn't quite vanishing but isn't that far off, and Éowyn's sword "broke sharply into many shards", which is more of a rapid unscheduled disassembly to borrow a modern term. The only blade that unambiguously vanishes is the Witch-King's dagger which he used to stab Frodo.
He stooped again and picked up a long thin knife. There was a cold gleam in it. As Strider raised it they saw that near the end its edge was notched and the point was broken off. But even as he held it up in the growing light, they gazed in astonishment, for the blade seemed to melt, and vanished like a smoke in the air, leaving only the hilt in Strider's hand.
Didn't Merry tell Pippin 'My sword just melted away', when they met after the battle?
He said "my sword burned all away like a piece of wood", which is consistent with the fire imagery of the narrative description two chapters previous; "smoking like a dry branch that has been thrust in a fire; and as he watched it, it writhed and withered and was consumed". It sounds more like being burned than simply vanishing, if that's a meaningful distinction.
It should be noted that Merry is somewhat delirious when he gives this description.
No, Frodo's sword from the barrow didn't melt away. He only cut the Ringwraith's robe, 'All blades perish that pierce the deadly king', said Aragorn. The blade broke as the Ringwraith's command at the ford of Rivendell, as previously pointed out.
That's not helpful. So which blade melted away?
We've got three descriptions of blades perishing in unusual ways, all of them in some relation to the Witch-King. As I noted earlier, Merry's blade "writhed and withered and was consumed", which isn't quite vanishing but isn't that far off, and Éowyn's sword "broke sharply into many shards", which is more of a rapid unscheduled disassembly to borrow a modern term. The only blade that unambiguously vanishes is the Witch-King's dagger which he used to stab Frodo.
He stooped again and picked up a long thin knife. There was a cold gleam in it. As Strider raised it they saw that near the end its edge was notched and the point was broken off. But even as he held it up in the growing light, they gazed in astonishment, for the blade seemed to melt, and vanished like a smoke in the air, leaving only the hilt in Strider's hand.
What is this preoccupation with blades? Is anyone interested in the scouring of the Shire?
I think the scouring of the Shire was an important part of the books. It was necessary to demonstrate that the Shire is part of Middle-earth and affected by what happens there, not some isolated idyllic haven from whence Hobbits have occasional adventures before returning to their static, peaceful, unchanging squirearchy.
That being said, I can understand why Peter Jackson chose to drop it from his film adaptation. The visuals (and cinema is a visual medium) would suffer by comparison with the siege of Gondor or the battle of the Pelennor Fields, and at a running time of 3 hours and 21 minutes (4 hours, 23 minutes in the extended version) some things had to be dropped.
Agreed as to both paragraphs. I’d add that the scouring of the Shire also ties up the stories of Saruman and Gríma/Wormtongue, as well as establishing the positions that Frodo, Sam, Merry and Pippin find themselves in after their return.
I missed it being in the movies, but understood why it wasn’t.
He should have done the Scouring as a standalone alternate take, shrunk down to 90 minutes or less, and released it separately as an epilogue.
I think that would have made a lot of sense. Th scouring shows a lot of important things - that people who leave their comfort come back different - and for some - Frodo - that comfort can never be resumed.
And it means that the differences, which are sometimes subtle and have happened slowly, can be seen in toto by others who have seen them before.
I think it shows - from a pseudo-psychological position - that when you have gone out and battled problems outside yourself, some of those inside are shown to be so much smaller and easily handled. It is a completion of the growth story.
He should have done the Scouring as a standalone alternate take, shrunk down to 90 minutes or less, and released it separately as an epilogue.
I think that would have made a lot of sense. Th scouring shows a lot of important things - that people who leave their comfort come back different - and for some - Frodo - that comfort can never be resumed.
And it means that the differences, which are sometimes subtle and have happened slowly, can be seen in toto by others who have seen them before.
I think it shows - from a pseudo-psychological position - that when you have gone out and battled problems outside yourself, some of those inside are shown to be so much smaller and easily handled. It is a completion of the growth story.
Very wise. 'The Scouring of the Shire' is a favourite of mine.
Question (asked before?) why no chapter early in LOR about the reforging of Aragan's sword? Do I have to write it myself? Pass the Mithril solder ....
Agreed as to both paragraphs. I’d add that the scouring of the Shire also ties up the stories of Saruman and Gríma/Wormtongue, as well as establishing the positions that Frodo, Sam, Merry and Pippin find themselves in after their return.
And attached to the latter, showing how the hobbits have been changed by their journey.
He should have done the Scouring as a standalone alternate take, shrunk down to 90 minutes or less, and released it separately as an epilogue.
I think that would have made a lot of sense. Th scouring shows a lot of important things - that people who leave their comfort come back different - and for some - Frodo - that comfort can never be resumed.
And it means that the differences, which are sometimes subtle and have happened slowly, can be seen in toto by others who have seen them before.
I think it shows - from a pseudo-psychological position - that when you have gone out and battled problems outside yourself, some of those inside are shown to be so much smaller and easily handled. It is a completion of the growth story.
That's very easy to depict in written narrative, but very difficult to portray in film, especially films inflected towards the action/adventure genre. It's asking a lot of audiences to expect them to suddenly switch genres to a psychological character study after more than nine hours of action film. (Eleven and a half if you're watching the extended edition.) Then there's the problem that the big action sequence, the battle of Bywater, isn't that dramatic from an action point of view. Unlike facing a relentless and massive orc horde backed up by Mûmakil (for example), the battle of Bywater involves luring the Middle-earth equivalent of street thugs and petty criminals into an ambush where they could be pincushioned by archers holding the high ground. It would also be very difficult to film this in a way that is not evocative of the death of Boromir, which might cause some discomfort in an audience that is simultaneously being asked to switch genres to psychological character study.
There's also the problem that audiences who have not read the books won't have any context for why Lotho Sackville-Baggins is important, or even who he is.
Question (asked before?) why no chapter early in LOR about the reforging of Aragan's sword? Do I have to write it myself? Pass the Mithril solder ....
Here's the quick answer to your previously asked question. Reforging Narsil into Anduril is the kind of thing that works better on film but in a written format is only worth a few lines of text, not a whole chapter.
The Sword of Elendil was forged anew by Elvish smiths, and on its blade was traced a device of seven stars set between the crescent Moon and rayed Sun, and about them was written many runes; for Aragorn son of Arathorn was going to war upon the marches of Mordor. Very bright was that sword when it was made whole again; the light of the sun shone redly in it, and the light of the moon shone cold, its edge was hard and keen. And Aragorn gave it a new name and called it Andúril, Flame of the West.
That seems sufficient for a series of books titled Lord of the Rings, not Lord of the Swords. I think a good argument could be made that the Ring is a character in its own right, while Andúril is an inanimate object. That's why we get a whole chapter on the history of the Ring and a single paragraph on reforging Andúril.
Happy Bilbo’s Birthday and Frodo’s Birthday to one and all!
I start my mumblenth reading of The Lord of the Rings tonight.
Meanwhile, I have been watching season 2 of “The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power,” though I haven’t seen the most recent episode yet. I have really enjoyed some aspects of it; other aspects have been disappointing.
Happy Bilbo’s Birthday and Frodo’s Birthday to one and all!
I start my mumblenth reading of The Lord of the Rings tonight.
Meanwhile, I have been watching season 2 of “The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power,” though I haven’t seen the most recent episode yet. I have really enjoyed some aspects of it; other aspects have been disappointing.
I am watching and finding it slow. Very slow. I feel like a man living an elf life. Endlessly drawn out.
Meanwhile, I have been watching season 2 of “The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power,” though I haven’t seen the most recent episode yet. I have really enjoyed some aspects of it; other aspects have been disappointing.
I wonder if there are some additional nuances to the restrictions over what they can use that has led to the series as it is.
Though after reading this piece by David Bratman https://dc.swosu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1038&context=mythcon it seems equally possible that it's what happens if you essentially have to unpick Tolkein's later harmonisations, using none of the material from the earlier work and operating to a deadline.
Meanwhile, I have been watching season 2 of “The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power,” though I haven’t seen the most recent episode yet. I have really enjoyed some aspects of it; other aspects have been disappointing.
I wonder if there are some additional nuances to the restrictions over what they can use that has led to the series as it is.
I think that’s certainly part of it.
Apparently they can use some things from outside LOTR and its prologue and appendices; they just have to pay an additional amount for each additional bit used. That’s how they get to use the name Annatar.
I am watching and finding it slow. Very slow. I feel like a man living an elf life. Endlessly drawn out.
Well, they're trying to stretch multiple TV series out of a few footnotes and appendices in The Lord of the Rings, without using any of the material in the Silmarillion or Tolkein's other published works.
And I suspect one of the reasons that Tolkien didn't write a "rise of Sauron in middle-earth" book is that many years passed without much actually happening. Evil lurking around in the shadows, and slowly growing without attracting overt attention isn't the most thrilling of stories.
I am watching and finding it slow. Very slow. I feel like a man living an elf life. Endlessly drawn out.
Well, they're trying to stretch multiple TV series out of a few footnotes and appendices in The Lord of the Rings, without using any of the material in the Silmarillion or Tolkein's other published works.
And I suspect one of the reasons that Tolkien didn't write a "rise of Sauron in middle-earth" book is that many years passed without much actually happening. Evil lurking around in the shadows, and slowly growing without attracting overt attention isn't the most thrilling of stories.
You could get that guy with the unidentifiable accent to say "several millenia pass."
I am watching and finding it slow. Very slow. I feel like a man living an elf life. Endlessly drawn out.
Well, they're trying to stretch multiple TV series out of a few footnotes and appendices in The Lord of the Rings, without using any of the material in the Silmarillion or Tolkein's other published works.
And I suspect one of the reasons that Tolkien didn't write a "rise of Sauron in middle-earth" book is that many years passed without much actually happening. Evil lurking around in the shadows, and slowly growing without attracting overt attention isn't the most thrilling of stories.
You could get that guy with the unidentifiable accent to say "several millenia pass."
I am watching and finding it slow. Very slow. I feel like a man living an elf life. Endlessly drawn out.
Well, they're trying to stretch multiple TV series out of a few footnotes and appendices in The Lord of the Rings, without using any of the material in the Silmarillion or Tolkein's other published works.
And I suspect one of the reasons that Tolkien didn't write a "rise of Sauron in middle-earth" book is that many years passed without much actually happening. Evil lurking around in the shadows, and slowly growing without attracting overt attention isn't the most thrilling of stories.
Technically Tolkien did write that book. Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age is the last book of The Silmarillion and, despite the title, covers the rise of Sauron in the Second Age. I'm sure one of the most frustrating things for the showrunners of Amazon's Rings of Power series is not having the rights to that material. Being able to use material from Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age would have made their jobs a lot simpler.
I am watching and finding it slow. Very slow. I feel like a man living an elf life. Endlessly drawn out.
Well, they're trying to stretch multiple TV series out of a few footnotes and appendices in The Lord of the Rings, without using any of the material in the Silmarillion or Tolkein's other published works.
And I suspect one of the reasons that Tolkien didn't write a "rise of Sauron in middle-earth" book is that many years passed without much actually happening. Evil lurking around in the shadows, and slowly growing without attracting overt attention isn't the most thrilling of stories.
You could get that guy with the unidentifiable accent to say "several millenia pass."
I am watching and finding it slow. Very slow. I feel like a man living an elf life. Endlessly drawn out.
Well, they're trying to stretch multiple TV series out of a few footnotes and appendices in The Lord of the Rings, without using any of the material in the Silmarillion or Tolkein's other published works.
And I suspect one of the reasons that Tolkien didn't write a "rise of Sauron in middle-earth" book is that many years passed without much actually happening. Evil lurking around in the shadows, and slowly growing without attracting overt attention isn't the most thrilling of stories.
You could get that guy with the unidentifiable accent to say "several millenia pass."
Surely "A few millenia later"
Done with a French accent and a title card in the SpongeBob way…
I think there might be a way a series incorporating these long gaps to work, using these gaps for advantage. One of Tolkien’s themes when it came to Númenor was its people’s fear of death. Think about a series where successive kings and queens of Númenor are dealing with the exact same elvish emissaries as their great-grandparents. That’s got to grate after a while. They’re the same bloodline as Elrond but he gets to live forever and they don’t.
I’m imagining a series in three parts. These parts are separated in time so you’d need a bit of exposition between parts.
Part 1: Forging the Rings of Power and the War of Elves and Sauron (SA 1500-1701). Part suspense thriller (who is Annatar?) and part action/adventure. Most of the story will be concentrated in relatively two narrow patches of time, 1590-1600 and 1693-1701. Númenorean ships show up in the last act to save the day, and there is A New Hope.
Part 2: The downfall of Númenor (SA 3254-3319). Maybe an intermezzo between Part 1 and this bit, taking place around SA 2200 and dealing with the embassy Tar-Atanamir received from the Valar, showing the Númenoreans turning away from the Old Ways and their growing fear of death. Lots of intrigue and corruption in Númenor, and a lot of potential action in Middle-earth as Gil-galad pushes back against Sauron's gains while Sauron is absent. A big cataclysm overtakes Númenor, ending this arc on a bit of a down note. Sauron's Empire Strikes Back.
Part 3: The War of the Last Alliance (SA 3429-3441). Possible intermezzo: Sauron taking shape again after the downfall of Númenor to discover that not only did his worst Númenorean enemies (Elendil and his sons) survive, there's now a Númenorean realm in exile (Gondor) right on his doorstep. Possible heartwarming scene as Elendil re-connects with Isildur and Anárion in Middle-earth. Intrigue and diplomacy as the Alliance is formed and some allies (Men of the Mountains) prove faithless. Lots of action as the war is joined, with a final climactic combat between Sauron, Gil-galad, and Elendil on the slopes of Mount Doom. The disaster of the Gladden Fields is a coda to this arc. We can call this one the Return of the Dúnedain.
This may be way out there, but I think story in a visual medium that hits these notes could be quite popular.
Today (March 25) is Ring Destruction Day. It's the day the Ring was destroyed in Mount Doom according to Tolkien's timeline. For various reasons I’ve been thinking a lot lately about power, its uses and abuses in its various forms, and that got me thinking about the various statements of Tolkien characters either claiming the Ring or rejecting the Ring. Given that the One Ring is the MacGuffin of The Lord of the Rings and the way in which Tolkien examines the corrupting influence of the desire for dominion over others (one of the big themes of the trilogy) it seemed a good thing to examine. It also provides a useful insight into how various characters were conceived.
At any rate I'll be posting various statements by various characters in Lord of the Rings either claiming or renouncing the Ruling Ring and I hope others will share their observations and insights (and let me know if I've missed any of these kinds of statements). I'll be taking them in chronological order, or at least I hope so.
Sauron (S.A. 1600) »
One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them
One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
This is pretty much the "mission statement" of the One Ring. Sauron too, for that matter. The Ring exists as a means "to rule them all". It's about dominion over others. Tolkien seems to view this as the superlative and definitive form of evil. He later spends some time differentiating between legitimate rule (e.g. Aragorn) and pure autocracy (Sauron). This is, in some ways, not surprising. Western philosophy has been wrestling with the argument of Thrasymachus ("justice is nothing other than the advantage of the stronger") since Plato wrote The Republic.
I notice that Sauron associates ruling with finding, bringing, and binding. That is, surveillance, centralisation, and restriction.
Tolkien's legitimate rulers do rather less of those things if only because if their rulership is regarded as legitimate they don't need to.
One of the ways the events surrounding the forging of the One Ring illustrate Sauron's character is this little bit from Appendix B providing a timeline of the Second Age.
c. 1600 Sauron forges the one ring in Orodruin. He completes the Barad-dûr. Celebrimbor perceives the designs of Sauron.
1693 War of the Elves and Sauron begins. The Three Rings are hidden.
Nine decades is a long time between your plans being discovered and launching a war as a follow-up. Some of this can probably be attributed to the fact that Sauron is immortal and can afford to take his time, but we see examples in Lord of the Rings where he can move quickly if given a good reason.
My take on this is that the there's no backup plan because the Ring itself is the plan and Sauron doesn't see any potential failure points. Sauron knows that his Ring will give him control over anyone using or wearing another ring of power so the plan is simply to rule the elves of Middle-earth by controlling their leadership. The flaw in the plan is that the elves figure out what he's doing and simply take off their rings. I get the impression that this is completely unexpected by Sauron. Having power over others is his summum bonum and it seems to be literally inconceivable to him that anyone would voluntarily give up power, even if it's power won at the expense of autonomy.
Those who've read The Silmarillion know that this was essentially Sauron's arrangement with Morgoth. Sauron got the power of being Morgoth's most trusted lieutenant and in return gave Morgoth loyal servitude. Sauron seems baffled (and possibly enraged) by the idea that anyone would choose any differently.
Comments
It was probably a much more magical blade. Woven with elven words.
The others were more normal blades.
Also - story requirements.
Frodo's barrow blade never struck the witch-king. At one point it pierced his cloak, but the blade survived that. It was later shattered by a spell. Éowyn's blade did not vanish, it was described as having "broke sharply into many shards", which sounds a lot like what happened to Narsil. Merry's barrow blade is described as "smoking like a dry branch that has been thrust in a fire; and as he watched it, it writhed and withered and was consumed", so that's the only example we have of a blade striking the witch-king actually vanishing.
As for the differing qualities of the various swords (or re-purposed daggers) carried by the hobbits, we have an illustration of this in Shelob's lair. It takes several hefty swings of Sam's barrow blade to sever even a single strand of Shelob's web, but Sting easily cuts through multiple strands "like a scythe through grass".
No. Aluminium is soft, and wouldn't make good armor. A decent sword would slice through an aluminium mail coat.
To a certain degree. Mithril is very versatile. The very hard steel-like version is just one application.
The phrase "make of it" implies that Frodo's mail coat is an alloy containing mithril, not pure mithril. It is sometimes referred to in the text as "mithril steel", which would seem to imply this alloyed nature. Mithril was also used in creating ithildin, the substance that reflects only moonlight and starlight found on the west gate of Khazad-Dûm, and Nenya, the ring of power worn by Galadriel. It's never explicitly stated in the text that I'm aware of, but I wouldn't be surprised if the moon-letters on Thorin's map in The Hobbit was another application of mithril.
Aluminum might be a good candidate given its low density, ductility, and resistance to oxidation. It falls down on the question of hardness, though. Titanium is another candidate, being lower density than steel, resistant to oxidation, and also harder than steel. It's similarly difficult to refine absent modern technology. Where titanium falls down is that it's not very ductile, thus could not be "beaten like copper". So imagine something as light and ductile as aluminum but (in alloy form) as hard as (or harder than) titanium.
I assume that, but there is also some similarity to existing materials. And in Tolkiens day, the uses of Aluminium for example would have been surprising. So I suspect he drew from that, and wondered about a material that had the properties of both lightness and strength.
Also, it was an alloy, and the dwearves were very talented in this work, so it could have been anything.
Most members had to use proper iron chainmail - because I got to shows on the bus or train, laden down with kit, I was allowed to use mithril.
It’th very mith-teriouth, ithn’t it?
Sorry, that was ghastly
Alloys though ... some of the latest 'meta-alloys' and ceramic composites being developed for jet turbines do (at last) come close to Mithril's wonderful properties.
If you can develop a seeing stone such an alloy would be easy!
PS: I have three heart valves with Titanium in them. As I'm struggling I wish they were made of Mithril. I shall suggest this when I see the cardiac surgeon later this month!
That's not helpful. So which blade melted away?
It's fik-shun.
Probably the best prescription around for the Periodic Table.
We've got three descriptions of blades perishing in unusual ways, all of them in some relation to the Witch-King. As I noted earlier, Merry's blade "writhed and withered and was consumed", which isn't quite vanishing but isn't that far off, and Éowyn's sword "broke sharply into many shards", which is more of a rapid unscheduled disassembly to borrow a modern term. The only blade that unambiguously vanishes is the Witch-King's dagger which he used to stab Frodo.
He said "my sword burned all away like a piece of wood", which is consistent with the fire imagery of the narrative description two chapters previous; "smoking like a dry branch that has been thrust in a fire; and as he watched it, it writhed and withered and was consumed". It sounds more like being burned than simply vanishing, if that's a meaningful distinction.
It should be noted that Merry is somewhat delirious when he gives this description.
Thank you.
I think the scouring of the Shire was an important part of the books. It was necessary to demonstrate that the Shire is part of Middle-earth and affected by what happens there, not some isolated idyllic haven from whence Hobbits have occasional adventures before returning to their static, peaceful, unchanging squirearchy.
That being said, I can understand why Peter Jackson chose to drop it from his film adaptation. The visuals (and cinema is a visual medium) would suffer by comparison with the siege of Gondor or the battle of the Pelennor Fields, and at a running time of 3 hours and 21 minutes (4 hours, 23 minutes in the extended version) some things had to be dropped.
I missed it being in the movies, but understood why it wasn’t.
I think that would have made a lot of sense. Th scouring shows a lot of important things - that people who leave their comfort come back different - and for some - Frodo - that comfort can never be resumed.
And it means that the differences, which are sometimes subtle and have happened slowly, can be seen in toto by others who have seen them before.
I think it shows - from a pseudo-psychological position - that when you have gone out and battled problems outside yourself, some of those inside are shown to be so much smaller and easily handled. It is a completion of the growth story.
Very wise. 'The Scouring of the Shire' is a favourite of mine.
Question (asked before?) why no chapter early in LOR about the reforging of Aragan's sword? Do I have to write it myself? Pass the Mithril solder ....
And attached to the latter, showing how the hobbits have been changed by their journey.
That's very easy to depict in written narrative, but very difficult to portray in film, especially films inflected towards the action/adventure genre. It's asking a lot of audiences to expect them to suddenly switch genres to a psychological character study after more than nine hours of action film. (Eleven and a half if you're watching the extended edition.) Then there's the problem that the big action sequence, the battle of Bywater, isn't that dramatic from an action point of view. Unlike facing a relentless and massive orc horde backed up by Mûmakil (for example), the battle of Bywater involves luring the Middle-earth equivalent of street thugs and petty criminals into an ambush where they could be pincushioned by archers holding the high ground. It would also be very difficult to film this in a way that is not evocative of the death of Boromir, which might cause some discomfort in an audience that is simultaneously being asked to switch genres to psychological character study.
There's also the problem that audiences who have not read the books won't have any context for why Lotho Sackville-Baggins is important, or even who he is.
Here's the quick answer to your previously asked question. Reforging Narsil into Anduril is the kind of thing that works better on film but in a written format is only worth a few lines of text, not a whole chapter.
That seems sufficient for a series of books titled Lord of the Rings, not Lord of the Swords. I think a good argument could be made that the Ring is a character in its own right, while Andúril is an inanimate object. That's why we get a whole chapter on the history of the Ring and a single paragraph on reforging Andúril.
You mean like he ruined the Hobbit?
(Wide-eyed and innocent emoji)
I start my mumblenth reading of The Lord of the Rings tonight.
Meanwhile, I have been watching season 2 of “The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power,” though I haven’t seen the most recent episode yet. I have really enjoyed some aspects of it; other aspects have been disappointing.
Link
I am watching and finding it slow. Very slow. I feel like a man living an elf life. Endlessly drawn out.
I wonder if there are some additional nuances to the restrictions over what they can use that has led to the series as it is.
Though after reading this piece by David Bratman https://dc.swosu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1038&context=mythcon it seems equally possible that it's what happens if you essentially have to unpick Tolkein's later harmonisations, using none of the material from the earlier work and operating to a deadline.
Apparently they can use some things from outside LOTR and its prologue and appendices; they just have to pay an additional amount for each additional bit used. That’s how they get to use the name Annatar.
Well, they're trying to stretch multiple TV series out of a few footnotes and appendices in The Lord of the Rings, without using any of the material in the Silmarillion or Tolkein's other published works.
And I suspect one of the reasons that Tolkien didn't write a "rise of Sauron in middle-earth" book is that many years passed without much actually happening. Evil lurking around in the shadows, and slowly growing without attracting overt attention isn't the most thrilling of stories.
You could get that guy with the unidentifiable accent to say "several millenia pass."
Surely "A few millenia later"
Technically Tolkien did write that book. Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age is the last book of The Silmarillion and, despite the title, covers the rise of Sauron in the Second Age. I'm sure one of the most frustrating things for the showrunners of Amazon's Rings of Power series is not having the rights to that material. Being able to use material from Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age would have made their jobs a lot simpler.
Well said!
Done with a French accent and a title card in the SpongeBob way…
https://youtu.be/g59HBXPuuQk?si=e87aRlurdv3MIi3Y
I’m imagining a series in three parts. These parts are separated in time so you’d need a bit of exposition between parts.
Part 1: Forging the Rings of Power and the War of Elves and Sauron (SA 1500-1701). Part suspense thriller (who is Annatar?) and part action/adventure. Most of the story will be concentrated in relatively two narrow patches of time, 1590-1600 and 1693-1701. Númenorean ships show up in the last act to save the day, and there is A New Hope.
Part 2: The downfall of Númenor (SA 3254-3319). Maybe an intermezzo between Part 1 and this bit, taking place around SA 2200 and dealing with the embassy Tar-Atanamir received from the Valar, showing the Númenoreans turning away from the Old Ways and their growing fear of death. Lots of intrigue and corruption in Númenor, and a lot of potential action in Middle-earth as Gil-galad pushes back against Sauron's gains while Sauron is absent. A big cataclysm overtakes Númenor, ending this arc on a bit of a down note. Sauron's Empire Strikes Back.
Part 3: The War of the Last Alliance (SA 3429-3441). Possible intermezzo: Sauron taking shape again after the downfall of Númenor to discover that not only did his worst Númenorean enemies (Elendil and his sons) survive, there's now a Númenorean realm in exile (Gondor) right on his doorstep. Possible heartwarming scene as Elendil re-connects with Isildur and Anárion in Middle-earth. Intrigue and diplomacy as the Alliance is formed and some allies (Men of the Mountains) prove faithless. Lots of action as the war is joined, with a final climactic combat between Sauron, Gil-galad, and Elendil on the slopes of Mount Doom. The disaster of the Gladden Fields is a coda to this arc. We can call this one the Return of the Dúnedain.
This may be way out there, but I think story in a visual medium that hits these notes could be quite popular.
At any rate I'll be posting various statements by various characters in Lord of the Rings either claiming or renouncing the Ruling Ring and I hope others will share their observations and insights (and let me know if I've missed any of these kinds of statements). I'll be taking them in chronological order, or at least I hope so.
This is pretty much the "mission statement" of the One Ring. Sauron too, for that matter. The Ring exists as a means "to rule them all". It's about dominion over others. Tolkien seems to view this as the superlative and definitive form of evil. He later spends some time differentiating between legitimate rule (e.g. Aragorn) and pure autocracy (Sauron). This is, in some ways, not surprising. Western philosophy has been wrestling with the argument of Thrasymachus ("justice is nothing other than the advantage of the stronger") since Plato wrote The Republic.
I look forward to your posts.
Tolkien's legitimate rulers do rather less of those things if only because if their rulership is regarded as legitimate they don't need to.
Nine decades is a long time between your plans being discovered and launching a war as a follow-up. Some of this can probably be attributed to the fact that Sauron is immortal and can afford to take his time, but we see examples in Lord of the Rings where he can move quickly if given a good reason.
My take on this is that the there's no backup plan because the Ring itself is the plan and Sauron doesn't see any potential failure points. Sauron knows that his Ring will give him control over anyone using or wearing another ring of power so the plan is simply to rule the elves of Middle-earth by controlling their leadership. The flaw in the plan is that the elves figure out what he's doing and simply take off their rings. I get the impression that this is completely unexpected by Sauron. Having power over others is his summum bonum and it seems to be literally inconceivable to him that anyone would voluntarily give up power, even if it's power won at the expense of autonomy.
Those who've read The Silmarillion know that this was essentially Sauron's arrangement with Morgoth. Sauron got the power of being Morgoth's most trusted lieutenant and in return gave Morgoth loyal servitude. Sauron seems baffled (and possibly enraged) by the idea that anyone would choose any differently.