Two nation separated by a common language

Gill HGill H Shipmate
edited April 2024 in Heaven
This is the thread to discuss differences in language usage. Depite the title, it’s not restricted to US and UK usage.

I joined in an online conversation today, where a US author mentioned that their editor corrected ‘another thing coming’ to ‘another think coming’.

As a 50-something Brit I went for ‘think’. But talking to @Hugal who is also a 50-something Brit, I discovered he would opt for ‘thing’.

Thoughts?

(ETA title spelling, DT, passing crew)
«1345

Comments

  • It would depend on the context.

    Did you mean 'thought', or idea or did you mean another incident or circumstance - another 'thing'?
  • I'd definitely go for "thing" - I've never heard anyone say "another think coming".

    I'm a Londoner but I've lived in Southampton, Glasgow, Ipswich and Cardiff, by the way, so reasonably comprehensive experience!
  • PuzzlerPuzzler Shipmate
    I vote for ‘think’, in the sense that ‘If you think you can avoid getting wet this morning, you’ve got another think coming’ . Think again. Think on, as they say in Yorkshire. Change your plans or take an umbrella.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    Always 'think' to me. "If you think that, you've got another 'think' (ie thought) coming!"

    'Thing' doesn’t seem to make any sense.

    I don't think this is a UK/USA thing.
  • Gill HGill H Shipmate
    Sorry, could a kind host fix the title please? I don’t believe ‘languagr’ is correct usage anywhere!
  • Gill HGill H Shipmate
    I associate it with being told off.

    “If you think you’re going out dressed like that, you have another think coming, young lady!”
  • North East QuineNorth East Quine Purgatory Host
    I'd say "another think coming."
  • Gracious RebelGracious Rebel Shipmate
    edited April 2024
    Reminds me of a deliberately humourous variation on the verb 'to think' used by my RE teacher at school 'have a think about it, and when you have thunk....'
  • I’d also say ‘another think coming’, in the same way as Gill.
    (Dr Seuss had a story about ‘The Gluck that got thunk’.
  • Gill HGill H Shipmate
    It’s probably confusing because we don’t use ‘think’ as a noun very often, unless you are Dr Seuss (as above, and also ‘Oh the thinks you can think!’) Although we do say ‘I’ve had a think about this’.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    Gill H wrote: »
    It’s probably confusing because we don’t use ‘think’ as a noun very often, unless you are Dr Seuss (as above, and also ‘Oh the thinks you can think!’) Although we do say ‘I’ve had a think about this’.

    That, and the fact that "thing coming" and "think coming" are realised the same way, unless someone is careful to geminate the k sound in the middle.
  • ArielAriel Shipmate
    There are beginning to be so many differences now that I think in a century or so the two languages will have diverged sufficiently to have to be taught as such. It's already possible to make a long list of words that are used differently on either side of the Atlantic. The reason we can still understand each other here and now, despite periodic misunderstandings, is probably the influence of television and films.
  • KendelKendel Shipmate
    In the U.S., it's: "You've got another thing coming."

    It DOES make sense! For example:

    "If you believe I'm going to back up such a stupid business plan with real money, you've got another thing coming!"

    And that thing could be:
    • a bad reference letter
    • a longer talking-to
    • dismissal from my office
    • dismissal from employment
    • a very expensive bill for wasting my time
    • a cup of coffee in the face
    • legal proceedings for trademark infringement
    • etc.

    I wonder if the aparent UK preference for "think" is related to "have a think"? Sometimes one hears this in the U.S., but I think that it's widely understood as having come from "elsewhere."
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    edited April 2024
    KarlLB wrote: »
    Always 'think' to me. "If you think that, you've got another 'think' (ie thought) coming!"

    'Thing' doesn’t seem to make any sense.

    I don't think this is a UK/USA thing.
    Agreed.

    Kendel wrote: »
    In the U.S., it's: "You've got another thing coming."
    Maybe in your part of the US. I’ve never heard “another thing coming” in all my 63 years in the American South. (In fact, I don’t think I’d encountered it at all until this thread.) It’s definitely “if you think . . . , you’ve got another think coming” here.

    One nation separated by a common language? :lol:

  • TrudyTrudy Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    I feel like the original phrase might once have been "another thing coming" and the replacement of "think " for "thing" may have once been a sort of humourous rewrite to imply "the next thing you have coming is something you should THINK differently about" or something like that. But this is just a general impression I have and I'm not sure it's possible to determine the origin or either phrase or which came first.
  • TrudyTrudy Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    In fact, it is possible to determine, and I am exactly wrong: it looks like "think" came first!

    https://www.merriam-webster.com/grammar/usage-another-think-coming-or-another-thing-coming
  • KendelKendel Shipmate
    edited April 2024
    Nick Tamen wrote: »
    I’ve never heard “another thing coming” in all my 63 years in the American South. (In fact, I don’t think I’d encountered it at all until this thread.) It’s definitely “if you think . . . , you’ve got another think coming” here.

    For real??!!! I've never heard it before.

    My mom's side of the family is mostly from Arkansas, so we have quite a few words and idioms that came from there, but I've never heard this one before.

    There are also differences throughout regions. I used to get calls for a while at the library from a man in rural Mississippi. We could hardly understand each other. But we both worked hard. Sometimes it came down to asking him to spell something. "The South" is not just "The South" and likewise, "The North" is not just "The North."

    How about "Doorwall?" I've head that's a Michiganism. My aunt lived for years in FL and got all snooty about it's use. I stuck to my guns, though.
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    edited April 2024
    Kendel wrote: »
    Nick Tamen wrote: »
    I’ve never heard “another thing coming” in all my 63 years in the American South. (In fact, I don’t think I’d encountered it at all until this thread.) It’s definitely “if you think . . . , you’ve got another think coming” here.

    For real??!!! I've never heard it before.
    For real. It sounds like misunderstanding “think” to me. “Thing” doesn’t make any sense at all to me, I’m afraid.

    "The South" is not just "The South" and likewise, "The North" is not just "The North."
    Indeed!

    How about "Doorwall?" I've head that's a Michiganism. My aunt lived for years in FL and got all snooty about its use. I stuck to my guns, though.
    I’ve never heard “Doorwall.” What does it mean?

  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    edited April 2024
    As I pointed out upthread "another thing coming" and "another think coming" sound exactly the same unless you're terrifically careful to double the K sound in one and not the other. Couple that with dialects which sound the g in -ng separately from its preceding nasal and you've got an utterance ripe for confusion.
  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    @Nick Tamen

    "Doorwall" apparently means a sliding door made of glass. Fairly common item, though I've never heard that particular phrase before. (I'm from western Canada.)
  • stetson wrote: »
    @Nick Tamen
    "Doorwall" apparently means a sliding door made of glass. Fairly common item, though I've never heard that particular phrase before. (I'm from western Canada.)
    Ah, thanks. That’d be a sliding glass door or maybe a patio door here.

    KarlLB wrote: »
    As I pointed out upthread "another thing coming" and "another think coming" sound exactly the same unless you're terrifically careful to double the K sound in one and not the other. Couple that with dialects which sound the g in -ng separately from its preceding nasal and you've got an utterance ripe for confusion.
    But they really don’t sound the same where I am. The way most people here speak, they’re distinct sounds—related but distinct and generally pretty easily differentiated.


  • SarasaSarasa All Saints Host
    I've never heard of another think, it's always another thing coming, but then I'm deaf so maybe I've been mishearing it all my life. Not heard of doorwall either.
    My pet hate of the moment is 'uptick, a word where I would also use 'upturn',
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    To me, if it relates to a new thought, then the word should be "thought." Usually, though, around here, the expression is "another thing coming."
  • PuzzlerPuzzler Shipmate
    I came across 'uptick' being used to mean increase. However the context was a negative uptick, which seems a nonsense to me.
  • KarlLB wrote: »
    As I pointed out upthread "another thing coming" and "another think coming" sound exactly the same unless you're terrifically careful to double the K sound in one and not the other. Couple that with dialects which sound the g in -ng separately from its preceding nasal and you've got an utterance ripe for confusion.

    Good point. Also the following /c/ could tend to devoice the /g/, assimilation, common in some dialects .
  • CaissaCaissa Shipmate
    I have heard both in New Brunswick. Think does make more sense in my mind.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    edited April 2024
    Nick Tamen wrote: »
    stetson wrote: »
    @Nick Tamen
    "Doorwall" apparently means a sliding door made of glass. Fairly common item, though I've never heard that particular phrase before. (I'm from western Canada.)
    Ah, thanks. That’d be a sliding glass door or maybe a patio door here.

    KarlLB wrote: »
    As I pointed out upthread "another thing coming" and "another think coming" sound exactly the same unless you're terrifically careful to double the K sound in one and not the other. Couple that with dialects which sound the g in -ng separately from its preceding nasal and you've got an utterance ripe for confusion.
    But they really don’t sound the same where I am. The way most people here speak, they’re distinct sounds—related but distinct and generally pretty easily differentiated.


    Thing and think in isolation are quite distinct. But with the word 'coming' immediately following both are likely to come out as
    [θɪŋˈkʌmɪŋ], which could be either.
  • LeafLeaf Shipmate
    Gill H wrote: »
    As a 50-something Brit I went for ‘think’. But talking to @Hugal who is also a 50-something Brit, I discovered he would opt for ‘thing’.

    Just had this exact experience, except with two mutually bemused Canadians! Another anecdata to indicate that whatever divergence in understanding occurs does not seem to be Pond-related.

  • The_RivThe_Riv Shipmate
    KarlLB wrote: »
    As I pointed out upthread "another thing coming" and "another think coming" sound exactly the same unless you're terrifically careful to double the K sound in one and not the other. Couple that with dialects which sound the g in -ng separately from its preceding nasal and you've got an utterance ripe for confusion.

    Good point. Also the following /c/ could tend to devoice the /g/, assimilation, common in some dialects .

    In choral music circles over here (the US) we casually refer to these as voiced and unvoiced consonant pairs:

    G : K
    Z : S
    D : T
    [etc.]
  • KendelKendel Shipmate
    edited April 2024
    KarlLB wrote: »
    Nick Tamen wrote: »
    stetson wrote: »
    @Nick Tamen
    "Doorwall" apparently means a sliding door made of glass. Fairly common item, though I've never heard that particular phrase before. (I'm from western Canada.)
    Ah, thanks. That’d be a sliding glass door or maybe a patio door here.

    KarlLB wrote: »
    As I pointed out upthread "another thing coming" and "another think coming" sound exactly the same unless you're terrifically careful to double the K sound in one and not the other. Couple that with dialects which sound the g in -ng separately from its preceding nasal and you've got an utterance ripe for confusion.
    But they really don’t sound the same where I am. The way most people here speak, they’re distinct sounds—related but distinct and generally pretty easily differentiated.


    Thing and think in isolation are quite distinct. But with the word 'coming' immediately following both are likely to come out as
    [θɪŋˈkʌmɪŋ], which could be either.

    Not in Michigan.
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    To me, if it relates to a new thought, then the word should be "thought." Usually, though, around here, the expression is "another thing coming."

    In my example, the person expected an investment of cash. They were about to get something entirely different. They had another thing coming that was not what they had hoped for.
    stetson wrote: »
    @Nick Tamen

    "Doorwall" apparently means a sliding door made of glass. Fairly common item, though I've never heard that particular phrase before. (I'm from western Canada.)

    Yeah. "Doorwall" is a sliding glass door. If we feel really fancy, sometimes we will say the whole thing: sliding glass doorwall.

    I guess it's to be CLEAR about the glass, rather than walking through the screen.

    Come to think of it, we would never say: sliding screen doorwall. I guess the screen is too insubstantial to count as a "wall."
  • BoogieBoogie Heaven Host
    edited April 2024
    From vocabulary.com -
    Think is often used as a noun in Britain, where this expression originated. You'll hear people say, "I had a good think this morning," for example. The confusion of think with thing is largely an American phenomenon, because speakers of American English rarely use think as a noun. But the beauty of another think coming is its implication of deep contemplation: you may have given the subject some thought, but you reached the incorrect conclusion and need to think about it some more. It's a more interesting way of saying, "You're wrong about that, and you should reconsider."

    I have always said ‘another thing coming’ and assumed ‘think’ was plain wrong and a result of the mishearing of ‘thing’.

    Interesting 🤔

    Ariel wrote: »
    There are beginning to be so many differences now that I think in a century or so the two languages will have diverged sufficiently to have to be taught as such. It's already possible to make a long list of words that are used differently on either side of the Atlantic. The reason we can still understand each other here and now, despite periodic misunderstandings, is probably the influence of television and films.

    My friend is American and lives in Germany - she speaks Italian, French, Spanish and German. She also speaks English - which she has learned and deliberately uses when visiting England or speaking to an English person.
  • The_RivThe_Riv Shipmate
    My opinion is that many if not most Americans would understand "thing" as a response to "think" as used in the lyric from the metal band Judas Priest's song "Another thing comin' " as follows:

    If you think I'll sit around as the world goes by
    You're thinkin' like a fool cause it's a case of do or die
    Out there is a fortune waitin' to be had
    You think I'll let it go you're mad
    You've got another thing comin'


    Full lyric found here.

  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    Kendel wrote: »
    KarlLB wrote: »
    Nick Tamen wrote: »
    stetson wrote: »
    @Nick Tamen
    "Doorwall" apparently means a sliding door made of glass. Fairly common item, though I've never heard that particular phrase before. (I'm from western Canada.)
    Ah, thanks. That’d be a sliding glass door or maybe a patio door here.

    KarlLB wrote: »
    As I pointed out upthread "another thing coming" and "another think coming" sound exactly the same unless you're terrifically careful to double the K sound in one and not the other. Couple that with dialects which sound the g in -ng separately from its preceding nasal and you've got an utterance ripe for confusion.
    But they really don’t sound the same where I am. The way most people here speak, they’re distinct sounds—related but distinct and generally pretty easily differentiated.


    Thing and think in isolation are quite distinct. But with the word 'coming' immediately following both are likely to come out as
    [θɪŋˈkʌmɪŋ], which could be either.

    Not in Michigan.

    Could you explain how they would differ, using IPA if possible.
  • Gill HGill H Shipmate
    Loving the way this thread is turning out!

    In the original online conversation I referred to, opinions were similarly divided. The author said their character was an upper-class Brit among Americans, so the consensus was to use ‘think’. I suggested the controversy could be used to develop the characters, with them arguing over the usage. The author loved the suggestion!
  • Interesting.

    'Another think coming' is a very common expression and I've heard it in South Wales, where I grew up, in Yorkshire, in Cheshire and other parts of the UK. It's used in the context that other posters have highlighted.

    'If you think that boss of yours is going to willingly give everyone a pay rise, you've got another think coming!'

    'If you think I'm going to overlook your scratching the car door just because you've apologised, you've got another think coming.'

    I have never, ever heard 'another thing coming' but I could imagine it being used when the object isn't a thought or idea but something else, literally another 'thing.' Not this thing, but that thing.

    I don't think it's a Pond thing at all.

    On the divergence between US and UK English, I remember a fascinating series on BBC Radio 4 about the English language which suggested that given time, South African English, Indian English, West Indian or Caribbean English etc would morph into completely separate languages in the same way as Italian, Spanish and French diverged from Latin.

    The differences between US and UK English tend to be idiomatic and we can generally work out what we each mean.

    Incidentally, and I am not being cheeky or finding fault in any way here, but it's a funny thing but I find I can 'hear' various forms of US accent when I read posts by some US Shipmates. For instance, I 'feel' I know how @Lamb Chopped, @Kendel and @Gramps49 sound when they are talking.

    @Nick Tamen often 'sounds' closer to UK usage to me and I imagine him with a mild 'Southern gent' type of accent.

    I find myself wondering whether US (or Canadian and South African or Australian) Shipmates have a particular 'sound' in their imaginations when they read posts by British Shipmates.

    I wonder how accurate our impressions are?

    For instance, I 'feel' I have a pretty good idea how @KarlLB might sound in real life, as it were, as I am familiar with the part of the country he lives in.

    Equally, I have some impression of how a Mid-Western US accent might differ from a Californian one, say or one of the Southern US accents, but certainly wouldn't claim pin-point accuracy.

    A chap hearing me speak once nailed my birthplace within a radius of 9 miles. He was spot on.

    As a thought experiment I'd be interested to hear how British Shipmates 'sound' to everyone else. Like King Charles? Like John Lennon? Like a band member from Spinal Tap?
  • BoogieBoogie Heaven Host
    I sound a lot like Guy Garvey from Elbow. 🙂
  • HedgehogHedgehog Shipmate
    Trudy wrote: »
    In fact, it is possible to determine, and I am exactly wrong: it looks like "think" came first!

    https://www.merriam-webster.com/grammar/usage-another-think-coming-or-another-thing-coming

    Thank you, @Trudy . That was an interesting read. Like you, I had thought "thing" came first. I figured "think" was used more as a joke version of the phrase. But I am wrong.
  • Puzzler wrote: »
    I came across 'uptick' being used to mean increase. However the context was a negative uptick, which seems a nonsense to me.

    Yeah, a "negative uptick" would be a downtick.
  • 'Another think coming' is a very common expression and I've heard it in South Wales, where I grew up, in Yorkshire, in Cheshire and other parts of the UK. It's used in the context that other posters have highlighted.

    'If you think that boss of yours is going to willingly give everyone a pay rise, you've got another think coming!'

    'If you think I'm going to overlook your scratching the car door just because you've apologised, you've got another think coming.'

    In both those sentences, I'd always use "thing" instead of the second "think".

  • But it is ‘another’ so I would interpret it as repeating the original word ie think.
  • @Nick Tamen often 'sounds' closer to UK usage to me and I imagine him with a mild 'Southern gent' type of accent.
    I’m afraid your imagination may be running away with you.

    Kendel wrote: »
    KarlLB wrote: »
    Nick Tamen wrote: »
    stetson wrote: »
    @Nick Tamen
    "Doorwall" apparently means a sliding door made of glass. Fairly common item, though I've never heard that particular phrase before. (I'm from western Canada.)
    Ah, thanks. That’d be a sliding glass door or maybe a patio door here.

    KarlLB wrote: »
    As I pointed out upthread "another thing coming" and "another think coming" sound exactly the same unless you're terrifically careful to double the K sound in one and not the other. Couple that with dialects which sound the g in -ng separately from its preceding nasal and you've got an utterance ripe for confusion.
    But they really don’t sound the same where I am. The way most people here speak, they’re distinct sounds—related but distinct and generally pretty easily differentiated.
    Thing and think in isolation are quite distinct. But with the word 'coming' immediately following both are likely to come out as
    [θɪŋˈkʌmɪŋ], which could be either.
    Not in Michigan.
    Nor in North Carolina.

    @KarlLB, I’m rusty on my IPA, and even more rusty on posting in it. I can just tell you that where I live, “think coming” doesn’t typically out as [θɪŋˈkʌmɪŋ]. It typically comes out as [θɪnkˈkʌmɪn], while “thing coming” typically comes out more [θɪ:ŋˈkʌmɪn]. The vowel in “thing” is longer than the vowel in “think.”

    I hope I got that right.

  • But it is ‘another’ so I would interpret it as repeating the original word ie think.

    Absolutely.
  • NicoleMRNicoleMR Shipmate
    I have rarely heard either, to be honest, but I believe that when I have heard it, it's been "think".
  • KendelKendel Shipmate
    edited April 2024
    KarlLB wrote: »
    Kendel wrote: »
    KarlLB wrote: »
    Nick Tamen wrote: »
    stetson wrote: »
    @Nick Tamen
    "Doorwall" apparently means a sliding door made of glass. Fairly common item, though I've never heard that particular phrase before. (I'm from western Canada.)
    Ah, thanks. That’d be a sliding glass door or maybe a patio door here.

    KarlLB wrote: »
    As I pointed out upthread "another thing coming" and "another think coming" sound exactly the same unless you're terrifically careful to double the K sound in one and not the other. Couple that with dialects which sound the g in -ng separately from its preceding nasal and you've got an utterance ripe for confusion.
    But they really don’t sound the same where I am. The way most people here speak, they’re distinct sounds—related but distinct and generally pretty easily differentiated.


    Thing and think in isolation are quite distinct. But with the word 'coming' immediately following both are likely to come out as
    [θɪŋˈkʌmɪŋ], which could be either.

    Not in Michigan.

    Could you explain how they would differ, using IPA if possible.

    So, like this?

    You and I are hanging around the Oktoberfest in Munich next fall, and you ask me where you could order a nice India Pale Ale. And I say:
    @KarlLB , if you think you're gonna get an India Pale Ale around here, in the heart of Bavarian brew culture, you've got another thing comin'!
  • KendelKendel Shipmate
    Boogie wrote: »
    From vocabulary.com -
    Think is often used as a noun in Britain, where this expression originated. You'll hear people say, "I had a good think this morning," for example. The confusion of think with thing is largely an American phenomenon, because speakers of American English rarely use think as a noun. But the beauty of another think coming is its implication of deep contemplation: you may have given the subject some thought, but you reached the incorrect conclusion and need to think about it some more. It's a more interesting way of saying, "You're wrong about that, and you should reconsider."

    I have always said ‘another thing coming’ and assumed ‘think’ was plain wrong and a result of the mishearing of ‘thing’.

    Interesting 🤔

    @KarlLB and @Boogie I think this is a very good explanation. Maybe the key. I've been driving around making weird sounds all afternoon. I don't know that the International Phonetic Alphabet (?) would really help, because the sounds are so subtly different.

    But for us who say "another [i[thing[/i] coming" maybe we don't hear "think" because it doesn't fit the established pattern that makes sense to us.

    I think I say them differently, but really, you'd have to record me saying them, when I"m not thinking about how I'm saying them.

    But I probably WOULD be thinking about how I"m saying "another think" because it would be a pattern error and be confusing to me.
  • carexcarex Shipmate
    Growing up on the West Coast of the US, I have only ever heard (or read) "think" in that context.

    But I've also noticed differences between those who learn by reading, and those who learn by sound, especially for uncommon words or constructs. "Mute point" rather than "moot point" is a common example of an uncommon word that I assume someone picked up by ear and associated with the closest word they knew. And these can be passed along to later generations who learn speech from their parents.
  • HedgehogHedgehog Shipmate
    I am spending the evening watching a Columbo mystery. Every time he is about to leave the suspect he turns around and says "Just one more thing..." Not "Just one more think..."

    So, clearly, the suspect has another "thing" coming!
  • KendelKendel Shipmate
    edited April 2024
    Precisely, @Hedgehog
  • MamacitaMamacita Shipmate
    I grew up with “another think.” My mother was from rural Minnesota and would say it as “you’ve got another think a-comin’ .” We understood it to mean a person (generally my sister and I!) was wrong in their thinking. So, not another “thing” that would be coming to a person, but that person’s need to take the action of reconsidering.
  • FirenzeFirenze Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    Always and only ever 'another think' (Ireland, Scotland) usually, as with @Mamacita 's mother, in a tone of ominous reproof.

    On the theme of transcribing what you hear rather than see written, I give you the English version of the menu in a French cafe offering 'smocked dust bread'.
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