Church rebranding

I don't know if this is a thing where you are but....
One of the local churches has just announced a new name for itself, it's 3rd name in roughly 30 years. Apparently they have a new vision to match which as far as I can see involves very much what you'd expect - worshipping god, telling people about jesus etc etc.
Several other churches in this neck of the woods are on their second name at least.
Given that most non churchgoers are pretty indifferent to such things I'm left wondering what these rebranding exercises are meant to achieve and what they actually achieve (apart from hassle updating the charity commission and bank accounts)?
«1

Comments

  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    A cynic might suggest that a name change would be useful if you've pissed off so many people that they flee when they hear the name of your organisation. See also Home Delivery Network renaming as Yodel and Hermes renaming as Evri.
  • chrisstileschrisstiles Hell Host
    Twangist wrote: »
    I don't know if this is a thing where you are but....

    It's more common on one side of the pond than the other, though has increasing purchase in some of the newer networks, and within established churches is usually associated with mergers and/or replantings.

    As for the brand itself, I assume the idea is that people are more like to go to 'Glow!' than 'St Drogos'.
  • I heard, many years ago, that a "Cemetery Road Gospel Hall" had rebranded itself as "Resurrection Church". But that may not be true.

    Sometimes churches simply rebrand themselves through popular usage: for decades St Philip's & St Jacob's in Bristol has been known as "Pip and Jay".

    What I find interesting (and somewhat clone-like) is how many of the so-called Resource Churches are rebranding their services as "The Eleven" or "The Six". I appreciate that terms such as "Matins", "Eucharist" and "Compline" are unintelligible to non-church people, but it somehow seems a bit like restaurants which give the price of dishes as "9.5" rather than "£9.50".

    Mind you it's better than a Methodist Church I knew which had a "Tuesday Fellowship" which met on Wednesdays!!!
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    I avoid any place that gives itself a "cool" or otherwise non-standard name like the plague.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    I heard, many years ago, that a "Cemetery Road Gospel Hall" had rebranded itself as "Resurrection Church". But that may not be true.

    Sometimes churches simply rebrand themselves through popular usage: for decades St Philip's & St Jacob's in Bristol has been known as "Pip and Jay".

    Yuck
    What I find interesting (and somewhat clone-like) is how many of the so-called Resource Churches are rebranding their services as "The Eleven" or "The Six". I appreciate that terms such as "Matins", "Eucharist" and "Compline" are unintelligible to non-church people, but it somehow seems a bit like restaurants which give the price of dishes as "9.5" rather than "£9.50".
    Often associated with serving you a toastie on a builder's flat cap or expecting you to drink out of a sodding jam jar. Hell hath no fires hot enough.
    Mind you it's better than a Methodist Church I knew which had a "Tuesday Fellowship" which met on Wednesdays!!!

    Have I ever bored I mean told you about my Primary School's Orange Pink Folders?

  • chrisstileschrisstiles Hell Host
    What I find interesting (and somewhat clone-like) is how many of the so-called Resource Churches are rebranding their services as "The Eleven" or "The Six".

    I have a vague idea that this comes from Hillsong via HTB (and of course, 'The Eleven" is where they have 'The preach").
  • TwangistTwangist Shipmate
    What I find interesting (and somewhat clone-like) is how many of the so-called Resource Churches are rebranding their services as "The Eleven" or "The Six".

    I have a vague idea that this comes from Hillsong via HTB (and of course, 'The Eleven" is where they have 'The preach").

    When do they have "The bread and The wine"?

    Does this clone-y franchise-y shenanigans make any difference to outsiders or just make the insiders feel cooler?
  • chrisstileschrisstiles Hell Host
    Twangist wrote: »
    What I find interesting (and somewhat clone-like) is how many of the so-called Resource Churches are rebranding their services as "The Eleven" or "The Six".

    I have a vague idea that this comes from Hillsong via HTB (and of course, 'The Eleven" is where they have 'The preach").

    When do they have "The bread and The wine"?

    Does this clone-y franchise-y shenanigans make any difference to outsiders or just make the insiders feel cooler?

    I think it sometimes demystifies church in a way that is helpful for newcomers, but this effect is also a lot smaller than the proponents of such things would admit (for instance, the targets set by the Archbishops Council are nowhere near fulfilment)
  • KarlLB wrote: »
    I avoid any place that gives itself a "cool" or otherwise non-standard name like the plague.

    I wouldn't go near a church that called itself "The Plague" ...
  • Twangist wrote: »
    When do they have "The bread and The wine"?
    No, no: "The Meal" - surely?

  • There has always been a code in the naming of services:

    Family = older children present, possibly a concurrent Sunday School
    All Age = nothing to challenge the under 8s
    Play & Praise = Toddler group with action songs
    Messy Church = craft sesion with action songs
    Pop-Up X = we haven't rehearsed the nativity/passion
    Civic service = hymn sandwich with local councillors
    Village harvest = hymn sandwich with vegetables
    Songs of Praise = Vicar's hymn taste laid bare
    Crafty Communion = hybrid of Messy Church & Pop-Up with sourdough
  • HugalHugal Shipmate
    Twangist wrote: »
    What I find interesting (and somewhat clone-like) is how many of the so-called Resource Churches are rebranding their services as "The Eleven" or "The Six".

    I have a vague idea that this comes from Hillsong via HTB (and of course, 'The Eleven" is where they have 'The preach").

    When do they have "The bread and The wine"?

    Does this clone-y franchise-y shenanigans make any difference to outsiders or just make the insiders feel cooler?

    As someone who went to a plant of a plant from HTB (we were never really connected with them) I can say they are less franchisey than your average traditional Church of England church which uses the same service as the others of their kind. Not only that but by doing what you are doing you are missing out. They even do a traditional for those who want it because they are parish members as well.
  • To be fair, I think the HTB 'franchise' thing is probably more a perception or misapprehension than anything else. Although things do vary from place to place.

    I've heard of one ultra-High and Trad Anglo-Catholic priest who was both relieved and delighted that the HTB-ers who moved into his parish allowed him to do his own thing pretty much as before - whilst they got on and did what they do.

    I don’t think all HTB 'plants' work as smoothly as that, but give praise where it's due.

    In answer to @Twangist's question about churches rebounding themselves with hipster coffee bar type names - 'The Zone', 'Space', 'Inspire' and so on ...

    Does it make much difference to anyone other than those who attend. No. But then not many people are that interested in what my church does or doesn't do.

    I agree with @chrisstiles that these things can offer marginal benefits for those unused to churchy language, but I tend to think that, irrespective of 'style' or theology what draws people into churches is a palpable sense of community or an impression that it's going to make a difference to their lives.

    And that can happen anywhere. Or otherwise.
  • Mostly, I tend to find cutesy branding exercises offensive.

    If your business is delivering parcels, or preaching the word of God, or operating a train service, do that. Calling yourself "Package!" or "<-Ship" as a distraction from the fact that you're not very good at delivering parcels efficiently is offensive.
  • TwangistTwangist Shipmate
    Hugal wrote: »
    Twangist wrote: »
    What I find interesting (and somewhat clone-like) is how many of the so-called Resource Churches are rebranding their services as "The Eleven" or "The Six".

    I have a vague idea that this comes from Hillsong via HTB (and of course, 'The Eleven" is where they have 'The preach").

    When do they have "The bread and The wine"?

    Does this clone-y franchise-y shenanigans make any difference to outsiders or just make the insiders feel cooler?

    As someone who went to a plant of a plant from HTB (we were never really connected with them) I can say they are less franchisey than your average traditional Church of England church which uses the same service as the others of their kind. Not only that but by doing what you are doing you are missing out. They even do a traditional for those who want it because they are parish members as well.

    Sorry what am I doing? And what am I missing out on?
  • chrisstileschrisstiles Hell Host
    edited May 2024
    Well, as much as branding exercises have become somewhat superficial these days, partly due to survivorship bias and a folk memory for the ones which went wrong, the initial premise of some form of external signalling to indicate 'things have changed here' does have some value.

    As to whether the names are any more/less bad than 'St RandomSt at RandomPlace' seems more down to taste than anything else.
  • Things have changed it what way?

    Guitars instead of organs?

    A kind of studied informality instead of po-faced piety?

    And @Hugal, yeah, what's @Twangist missing out on by not attending an HTB-plant? I suspect he'd pretty much know what he'd find there.

    It'd be like a Quaker telling the rest of us we're 'missing out' because we don't do what Quakers do or me telling you that you're 'missing out' because you don't have the Liturgy of St John Chrysostom.

    Or have we misunderstood?

    I'm fully prepared to accept that HTB-plants are more varied than is popularly supposed and that they cater for people who don't all want the particular HTB vibe, but it seems a bit of a stretch to say that other people are 'missing out' if they're not part of it.

    Or have I got the wrong end of the stick?
  • chrisstileschrisstiles Hell Host
    Things have changed it what way?

    Guitars instead of organs?

    A kind of studied informality instead of po-faced piety?

    Or simply attempting to reach out to their community rather than being stuck in a holy huddle? As a theme this has managed to cross-over to the point where it became a broadcastable joke: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRujuE-GIY4
  • Looks like my kinda church ... 😉
  • HugalHugal Shipmate
    There is a lot strong faith and good teaching in HTB style churches. Just because it is not stylistically your type of Church doesn’t mean it is shallow. They are still C of E after all. Just another avenue to explore
  • Baptist TrainfanBaptist Trainfan Shipmate
    edited May 2024
    I'm going to be in danger of junior hosting here ... but this thread isn't about the pros and cons of HTB-plant churches (yes, I know it was me who started it) but church rebranding in general. Other denominations do it too: for instance, Sheringham Baptist Church is now Sheringham Lighthouse Church.
  • Two parishes in Our Town were recently joined in a united benefice, but calling the new outfit by using the two dedications would have been a bit clumsy.

    Instead, they went for a simple name - *The one-word hidden to protect their identity Benefice*.

    I don't know if anyone yet uses the new title, apart from on official documents, and their website!
  • chrisstileschrisstiles Hell Host
    I'm going to be in danger of junior hosting here ... but this thread isn't about the pros and cons of HTB-plant churches

    It's not surprising that it comes up, given the large (some would say oversized) role of HtB in the CofE's growth plans (c.f Church Times), but yes a lot of Baptist Churches (in the UK) seem to have gone down this road too - often coincidental to a building project, and I just wonder if if part of that is because a distinct 'Baptist' identity feels somewhat dated to many people.
  • Hugal wrote: »
    There is a lot strong faith and good teaching in HTB style churches. Just because it is not stylistically your type of Church doesn’t mean it is shallow. They are still C of E after all. Just another avenue to explore

    If you'd read my posts properly you'd have seen that I was cutting HTB more slack than you anticipated.

    What I said was that their church plants don't always conform to the stereotype. Try not to get so defensive.

    But yes, as to the wider point about rebranding ... I don't know about anywhere else but around here the Pentecostals have stopped using the term 'Pentecostal' because they feel it carries negative connotations for some people.
  • Alan29Alan29 Shipmate
    Two parishes in Our Town were recently joined in a united benefice, but calling the new outfit by using the two dedications would have been a bit clumsy.

    Instead, they went for a simple name - *The one-word hidden to protect their identity Benefice*.

    I don't know if anyone yet uses the new title, apart from on official documents, and their website!

    That happened to us. We went from English Martyrs to Holy Apostles and Martyrs. The church notice board has Holy Apostles and Martyrs Parish, English Martyrs Church.
    Everyone calls us HAM. (Or English Martyrs.)
  • TwangistTwangist Shipmate
    Hugal wrote: »
    There is a lot strong faith and good teaching in HTB style churches. Just because it is not stylistically your type of Church doesn’t mean it is shallow. They are still C of E after all. Just another avenue to explore

    No beef with htb - I am a charismatic myself.
  • TwangistTwangist Shipmate
    Alan29 wrote: »
    Two parishes in Our Town were recently joined in a united benefice, but calling the new outfit by using the two dedications would have been a bit clumsy.

    Instead, they went for a simple name - *The one-word hidden to protect their identity Benefice*.

    I don't know if anyone yet uses the new title, apart from on official documents, and their website!

    That happened to us. We went from English Martyrs to Holy Apostles and Martyrs. The church notice board has Holy Apostles and Martyrs Parish, English Martyrs Church.
    Everyone calls us HAM. (Or English Martyrs.)

    Ham and English mustard?

    I still think of our friends in the op by the original name!

    What I find odd is that it's the same people (current pastor is the son of the founding pastor who is still arpund), same denomination, same building, decent reputation in the town....
  • I heard today of two Cardiff URC churches - Roath Park and Minster Road - which combined to form the rather euphonious Parkminster church.

    However that's not quite the sort of rebranding we're really thinking of, is it?
  • I just wonder if if part of that is because a distinct 'Baptist' identity feels somewhat dated to many people.
    The Baptist title which really causes difficulty is "Strict and Particular" which is actually to do with ecclesiology and doctrine rather than, as might be assumed, personal morality. I believe that these churches, which aren't part of the Baptist Union of Great Britain, now call themselves "Grace Baptists".

  • TwangistTwangist Shipmate
    In Chelmsford where I grew up there was "Ebenezer strict and particular baptist Chapel " (Sarah Perry the author was involved as a child) the branding was a little off putting to be fair.
  • TwangistTwangist Shipmate
    The peculiar people were another non conformist group who had good reason to rename themselves
  • chrisstileschrisstiles Hell Host
    I just wonder if if part of that is because a distinct 'Baptist' identity feels somewhat dated to many people.
    The Baptist title which really causes difficulty is "Strict and Particular" which is actually to do with ecclesiology and doctrine rather than, as might be assumed, personal morality.

    I meant that the "Baptist" is seen as increasingly meaningless in a more secularised community which might be why these churches pivot away from using it (either settling on a noun or something like 'Such and Such Community Church'.).
  • Twangist wrote: »
    The peculiar people were another non conformist group who had good reason to rename themselves

    They changed their name (which they took from a Bible verse) fairly late on in their history:

    https://www.uec-churches.net/history/
  • TwangistTwangist Shipmate
    They have a church in Chelmsford too (a mate of mine was an organist there for a bit). Historically a strong peace witness IIRC
  • Twangist wrote: »
    They have a church in Chelmsford too (a mate of mine was an organist there for a bit). Historically a strong peace witness IIRC

    Yes. A fair few were conscientious objectors during WW1 - not sure about their stance in WW2.

    As to their rebranding in 1956, this seems to have been a response to decline, and also to the church's growing closer in practice to other evangelical bodies. Perhaps rebranding in order to appeal to a wider *market* is nothing especially new!
  • A church in my former area USA named its self, "The Church You Have Been Looking for." I note it is no longer around, or perhaps changed it's name.
  • Just (in my mind's eye) looking around Our Town, which has a wide variety of churches, I can't think of any which have renamed or rebranded themselves, apart from the new united benefice I mentioned earlier.

    There may be one or two, of course, which I don't know about, but a change of name sometimes occurs when a denomination takes over a church formerly owned by another group. The new congregation very often is of a completely different character to the original - a C of E church in Our Town, which had an Anglo-Catholic ethos, closed many years ago, but has in recent years been taken over by an African Pentecostal congregation.

  • The 'Community Church' title is an interesting one, as it appears to be growing in popularity as a name among Baptist churches whereas it used to be almost exclusively a Pentecostal or independent charismatic thing.

    Which just goes to show that many of these groups are becoming virtually indistinguishable to anyone other than the cognoscenti. They all tend to sing the same songs and have a largely charismatic-lite style.

    I'm not saying that's good, bad or indifferent. Just making the observation.

    FWIW I do have some beefs with HTB but will happily acknowledge that they don't always act according to the stereotypical view that their detractors hold of them. I was never a fan of Nicky Gumbel but an RC priest friend who heard him speak a few years back was pleasantly surprised and found him not at all what he'd expected.

    We have to judge everything on its own merits. That applies to rebranding to. If it's done for good reasons, such as those @chrisstiles outlined upthread, then fine.

    If it's done to sound cool and trendy then, no ...

    I suspect it's one of those things that very much comes down to individual cases and contexts.
  • A church in my former area USA named its self, "The Church You Have Been Looking for." I note it is no longer around, or perhaps changed it's name.

    Perhaps no-one found it?
  • Baptist TrainfanBaptist Trainfan Shipmate
    edited May 2024
    Twangist wrote: »
    In Chelmsford where I grew up there was "Ebenezer strict and particular baptist Chapel " (Sarah Perry the author was involved as a child) the branding was a little off putting to be fair.

    I'm reading her "Enlightenment" at the moment. Her "Aldleigh" sounds very like Chelmsford. Ebenezer is still there, as New London Road Baptist Church.
  • TwangistTwangist Shipmate
    Twangist wrote: »
    In Chelmsford where I grew up there was "Ebenezer strict and particular baptist Chapel " (Sarah Perry the author was involved as a child) the branding was a little off putting to be fair.

    I'm reading her "Enlightenment" at the moment. Her "Aldleigh" sounds very like Chelmsford.

    That's been mentioned in a few promotional interviews. I'll be interested to read it.
  • TwangistTwangist Shipmate
    Community Church used to be a common restorationist label.
    Was place-name Christian fellowship also one or was that more independent?
  • TwangistTwangist Shipmate
    Ebenezer is near the cricket ground.
  • TwangistTwangist Shipmate
    You can see the floodlights here
    http://www.ship-of-fools.com/mystery/2017/3216.html

    A schoolfriend went with her family once (and once only) in the late 80s/early 90s and reported king James only and hats for the ladies.
  • By 'independent charismatic' I was including the various restorationist 'new church' streams as well as those which were unaffiliated to one or other of those.

    I should have made myself clearer.
  • Our local Methodist church is known as the Town Name, Community United Methodist Church. I always wondered about the Community part.
  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    edited May 2024
    A church in my former area USA named its self, "The Church You Have Been Looking for." I note it is no longer around, or perhaps changed it's name.

    Assuming an otherwise neutral presentation(eg. standard 1970s suburban church architecture), and assuming the slogan does, in fact, have an impact, that's one that could attract anyone who feels alienated from their standing faith, regardless of where they are on the theological-political spectrum. Two rough categories:

    "Praise the Lord! Finally, a bible-believing congregation not under the sway of humanistic liberals!"

    "Word. A tolerant and affirming community not run by a bunch of bible-thumping bigots."

    Only one of whom would likely stick around for more than one service. And I'm guessing there were other things about the outward appearance of the place that would indicate what to expect. (My guess would be it's appealing to the person in my first example.)
  • Our local Methodist church is known as the Town Name, Community United Methodist Church. I always wondered about the Community part.

    I think 'Community' is one of those buzz-words with more aspiration than substance behind it

    For instance, when you see a road sign which says, 'Community Speed Watch Area' you could be forgiven for thinking that a committee of concerned locals were running this initiative. Instead, it's a local authority initiative - nothing wrong in that - with the word 'community' inserted to make it sound more cuddly and grass-roots. Sure, there might be volunteers out with speed-guns every so often but it's not a community initiative in the same way as the local Rotary, WI or U3A might be.

    On the use of the word 'Community' in the names of churches I think it's become embedded now in the sense that - if it means anything to non-churchy people at all - it carries connotations of, 'it must be happy-clappy' and 'they must run Foodbanks' - at one and the same time. Even if the church with 'Community' in the title isn't particularly charismatic evangelical or a hub for that many community initiatives.

    Our local Pentecostal church is a 'Community Church' and has eschewed the term 'Pentecostal' whilst remaining pretty charismatic in style.

    It has justifiably won awards for community initiatives and genuinely does valuable work in the community.

    In an instance like that, I'd say Name of Town Community Church is entirely appropriate.

    Nothing against bog-standard non-conformist churches, but if a bog-standard non-conformist church were to label itself 'Name of town Community bog-standard nonconformist Church' in order to make itself sound more attractive, then no - unless it really was proving a community service of some kind - mums and tots, debt counselling, foodbanks etc etc.
  • chrisstileschrisstiles Hell Host
    The 'Community Church' title is an interesting one, as it appears to be growing in popularity as a name among Baptist churches whereas it used to be almost exclusively a Pentecostal or independent charismatic thing.

    I think you are reading too much into this - it may be picked purely because it has a neutral sound and avoids a label that is increasingly seen - by outsiders - as a purely sectarian one (I'm sure many of us have had conversations along the lines of 'Why are there all these different churches that disagree with each other?').
    Which just goes to show that many of these groups are becoming virtually indistinguishable to anyone other than the cognoscenti. They all tend to sing the same songs and have a largely charismatic-lite style.

    I don't think this is necessarily a justifiable conclusion, I don't think that the name itself is indicative of that kind of convergence (apart from existing in the same society). In practical terms the actual convergence is to a position where some doctrinal positions are rather loosely held and not seen as a distinctive (although I suspect you'd be similarly resistant to a party line being enforced).
  • Twangist wrote: »
    Was place-name Christian fellowship also one or was that more independent?
    I suspect that this has been used either by Brethren groups that have become more "open" or by churches which wish to appear informal.

Sign In or Register to comment.