Ship of Fools: St Andrew’s Reformed Episcopal, Glendale, Arizona, USA
The Mystery Worshipper
Shipmate
Ship of Fools: St Andrew’s Reformed Episcopal, Glendale, Arizona, USA
Our Mystery Worshipper might as well have been invisible at the end of the service
Read the full Mystery Worshipper report here
Comments
I have had that exact same feeling about other "breakaway" Anglican churches I have visited.
Thank you for visiting St. Andrew's Reformed Episcopal Church (Anglican). We sincerely appreciate your review and the opportunity to learn from your feedback. I am genuinely sorry that you felt invisible as people arrived and after the service. This is something we will address, as we have often been commended for our sense of community. I believe you would have experienced this if you were able to stay after the service for the weekly meal that we provide for all who attend. After the worship service, our weekly meal is the time where people find great opportunities to fellowship and ask questions about Christianity. Being a new church plant located on an university campus, we have many logistical aspects to manage each week, including setup, teardown, and cleaning.
We do have a pianist (the Vicar's wife) but she was traveling with her husband who serves as the Pastor of our new church plant. They were away visiting some of our Deanery churches in the Western states where our Vicar (Rev. Dr. Steven Rutt) was preaching and teaching. During their absence, we do our best to sing without instruments, which is not our preference.
Additionally, due to the university's policy for fire regulations, we cannot use incense or real candles. Unfortunately, amidst the challenges of setup and dealing with illnesses among our team, we overlooked checking the batteries in the battery-operated candles. As you mentioned, we had a lower turnout that week but that was due to summer vacation for the university students, as well as those who were travelling.
The men serving are all Postulants-in-training (seminarians) and have much to learn. I recently purchased a couple pairs of black dress shoes, so if you choose to return, you will not need, as you stated: "smelling salts."
It's worth noting that the 1662 Book of Common Prayer service follows a different order for Holy Communion than what you are accustomed to. I am pleased that you enjoyed the hymns and found the message in the Assistant Vicar's homily to be helpful.
As a new church plant, we recognize that there is much for us to improve upon. We take full responsibility and appreciate your unexpected visit. We extend an invitation for you or anyone else to visit us again at a later time.
May the Lord bless your endeavors, and may the people at St. Andrew's Reformed Episcopal Church be granted soft hearts and tough skin.
Thank you once more. We are committed to growing in our service to the Lord and striving to be the very best we can be!!!
Warm regards,
James Allen
Postulant (seminarian in training)
As I live the other side of 'The Pond' I've only ever met one person - an ordinand - from a 'break-away' Anglican group and he was from the US. I'm more familiar with the 1662 Prayer Book of course than the 1928 one which I've only heard about.
I'm no longer Protestant or Anglican but Orthodox so don't have any 'stake' in upheavals within the Anglican communion other than a sadness at seeing 'relatives' - or 'kin' as the Americans still say - fall out.
I'm not sure where 'Reformed' folk within the Anglican communion might go if they wanted to retain an episcopal form of church governance yet couldn't, for whatever reason, feel that they could remain in communion with Canterbury and TEC in the USA.
I can see the dilemma but am not sure an entrepreneurial proliferation of 'non-canonical' groups is the answer.
Something best discussed over a fellowship lunch ...
Yes, further discussion of the reasons why churches feel compelled to "break away" from their denominations would be out of place here. Comments on MW reports should be limited to what took place during the service, as reported on. I will say, however, that it is a complex question. On the one hand, I'm sure God doesn't care what clergy call themselves -- whether it be priest, minister, presbyter, or grand poo-bah, or whether or not they wear a maniple. But on the other hand, I think he cares very much about what they think of the eucharist -- whether the elements, while retaining the physical characteristics of bread and wine, are in actuality the Body and Blood of his Son; or whether Jesus is merely "present" in the elements; or whether they are simply a "memorial" of the Last Supper.
I’m not convinced God cares nearly as much about what different Christians think about the Eucharist as those Christians do. I suspect God is more concerned about why we allow disagreement about the Eucharist to cause division in the church. And I suspect God is much more concerned with how our participation in the Eucharist, however we may understand it, bears fruit in our lives.
Yes, Jesus did say that. (Though I have heard that in Aramaic, he actually would have said “this my body” and “this my blood.” No idea if that’s accurate.) And there are a number of legitimate ways to understand what “is” means in that context—including the same way we mean “is” when we show someone a photograph and say “this is my mother.” And I say that as one who is not a memorialist.
But in any event, that Jesus said “is” doesn’t address why God “cares very much about what they think of the eucharist.”
Nenya - Mystery Worshipper and Ecclesiantics Host
FWIW, and perhaps to encourage someone else to visit one, here's their website:
https://fcofe.org.uk/
There are 16 churches in England (including a new plant in York), and one on the Isle of Man (with an interesting backstory).
There's also the breakaway Evangelical Connexion of the Free Church of England, which has 4 churches:
https://ecfce.com/
As Miss Amanda says, these are probably the nearest English equivalents to the church MWed.
Please take the discussion about what people think of the eucharist and whether it matters elsewhere if you want to continue it: possibly to Ecclesiantics if it's to be limited to clergy, otherwise Purgatory.
Nenya - Ecclesiantics and Mystery Worshipper Host
[/Hosting]
Bells are if anything here even more of a mark of being self-consciously Anglo-Catholic than incense. Those who were sensitive to the risk of 'Romish germs' would have regarded them as cast iron evidence of having been infected.
As I recall, he stood in the center with his back to the congregation.
Bowing briefly at the name of Jesus in the Apostles Creed was common practice at BCP Evensong in the Tin Tabernacle Of My Youth, which modest fane inclined to MOTR churchmanship. I don't recall any bowing at all during the services (also BCP, but much further down the candle*) at the Parish Church.
(*so low down the candle as to have no candles anywhere, nor even a plain cross!)
We do it at our place, but it seems to be restricted just to the altar party. I’ve not noticed many in the congregation doing it.
It was the same in German when preachers would refer usually to 'der Heiland' ( the saviour)
Ah yes. I remember it too. My seminary days were biretta'd. It was a real distraction having to listen out of the name of Jesus during the homily - and there was something slightly comical about 80+ young men solemnly doffing their headwear at the same time.
Strange times indeed.