You can lead a Trumpian to water....
It all started out with me responding to a FaceBook meme to the effect:
November 5, 2020
Gas was $2,79
Milk was $0.99
Everything was better then.
Do your research.
So, I responded back.
In 2020, our economy was all but shut down.
Small Businesses were collapsing
We were stacking bodies in refrigerator trucks
because of Trump mishandling of the pandemic.
Do YOUR research.
All of the sudden, I get flamed by Trumpians.
One said, "Oh sure, blame Trump for everything,
Another posted a meme that said "You can lead a liberal to water..."
Another asked, "Do you believe everything you read in the media?"
After the third strike, I just unfollowed the person that made the original meme.
But, I got to thinking I should have some retorts lined up.
For the first one, I could have said, "Well, ya..."
The second one, I could have said, "We liberals say the same thing about you Trumpians.
And a few combacks for the third one: "What media do you follow?" Or, "Something tells me you don't follow media." Or, "Must be bliss to be ignorant."
I don't know. I must just be getting two old to put up with this garbage. Tell me I am wrong.
November 5, 2020
Gas was $2,79
Milk was $0.99
Everything was better then.
Do your research.
So, I responded back.
In 2020, our economy was all but shut down.
Small Businesses were collapsing
We were stacking bodies in refrigerator trucks
because of Trump mishandling of the pandemic.
Do YOUR research.
All of the sudden, I get flamed by Trumpians.
One said, "Oh sure, blame Trump for everything,
Another posted a meme that said "You can lead a liberal to water..."
Another asked, "Do you believe everything you read in the media?"
After the third strike, I just unfollowed the person that made the original meme.
But, I got to thinking I should have some retorts lined up.
For the first one, I could have said, "Well, ya..."
The second one, I could have said, "We liberals say the same thing about you Trumpians.
And a few combacks for the third one: "What media do you follow?" Or, "Something tells me you don't follow media." Or, "Must be bliss to be ignorant."
I don't know. I must just be getting two old to put up with this garbage. Tell me I am wrong.
Comments
On the other side why bother? No cure for stupidity.
I do wish I, being of an argumentative nature, (no I'm not!) could remember that more often!
If you want a decent discussion come here or discuss things with family or friends.
I only post pics of places I visit on FB these days.
Is of the same opinion still"
I have read that when people are surveyed about how much they agree with a speaker, the content hardly sways them at all.
By far the strongest predictor of agreement is: "Do I like and identify with this person?", notwithstanding what they say or if they contradict things they have said earlier.
Emotion eats reason for breakfast.
Way at the beginning of the pandemic, friends of one of my cousins were arguing on FB that there was no disease, and nobody was dying from it. Trying to do my civic duty, I told them about a doctor I took my parents to for an annual check-up who was at that moment dying of Covid. They called me a liar and said horrible things to me. I, knowing that was not my 'wrassling' venue, told them 'you do you' and blocked them.
BTW, that cousin's husband died from Covid and she came very close to dying. She still doesn't believe in the pandemic and especially refuses to take the vaccine.
We all have selective memories. They will list you a litany of Biden's evils and liberal evils that are causing the world is going to hell in a handbasket.
Trump promotes the mythology of inherent U.S. greatness and that God-ordained might makes right and gives us the right to use it however we please. People who love it love it. Only the most moderate, if any, of his possible voters will be willing to think otherwise.
As an aside (sorry!) I rather like, "You can lead a horticulture but you can't make them think!"
Or should this be in 'Bad Jokes'?
I like the comment about wrestling with a pig.
Yes, and even if they are not a bot or a human in a Russian troll farm, they could very well be an amateur troll here in the US out to “own the Libs”, not to persuade anyone or even to support any particular policy agenda. Even if they are not a true believer in Trump, they could have a chip on their shoulder
from being looked down on by liberal celebrities, academics, and professionals, and feel that taking Liberals down a notch is the main point of politics - or at least of political discussion on social media.
@Gramps49, you weren’t wrong at all, at least not factually. But there was no other way that discussion was going to go. “Don’t feed the trolls” is generally good advice, in my experience.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jclPWidTfak
Sorry about that! My cousin doesn't.
At least today was a good day to go outside here.
Wow. No need to apologise! It did read like that, but it seemed so extraordinary that I was searching for a possible alternative interpretation of the wording.
This.
Arguing against a belief entrenches the belief further.
Asking questions like “what makes you think that” helps, sometimes.
aka Socratic ignorance.
Yes, but, as you say, only sometimes...at other times, talking about something (or nothing) else is a better option!
A local issue around here is the proposed placement of a wind farm near a butte that is beloved for its scenery. I am not in favor of the placement of the windfarm in that area, but I can point to other places in the county which would be as good for wind production. The reason why the company proposing the farm near the butte is it can tap in to a trunk line that hooks a local dam into the national grid. The other place does not have such a trunk line.
Anyway, someone posted two arguments that wind turbines contribute to global warming and they will not turn a profit in their expected lifetime. Both are easily refuted. The manufacturing of wind turbines does release some CO2 but their use does not. And, modern wind turbines turn a profit within five to ten years of their placement.
The guy could not refute my counter argument, so what does he do, but accuse me of being a democrat who has no sense. So much for an ad hominin attack.
Do other people get into these types of arguments in other countries, or is this just an American problem?
It doesn't just apply to political issues either. Just one or two instances.
On a social media group in my town there was some discussion about a family with two dogs which would run loose around the streets. They weren't vicious but were something of a nuisance. Neighbours would often bring the dogs back.
Amidst some sane and sensible discussion and suggestions as to how to address the issue, someone piped up. 'My five year old grandson goes that way on his way to school. If those dogs do anything to him, I won't be responsible for my actions!'
I politely pointed out that we are all responsible for our actions and if anything were to happen to the dogs and they were harmed in some way, then guess who'd be the prime suspect based on their social media posts?
On another discussion an elderly poster complained that a Spider-Man cut-out in a window display in a pizza joint was dangerous as it would distract motorists who would then swerve and hit pedestrians in the town centre. Yeah, right. 'Hey look! It's Spider-Man!' Screee-eecch! SMASH!
I used to engage with this group when I was a town and borough councillor, generally in an attempt to put the record straight on things or explain how things actually worked. I was impressed by how some well-informed people behaved. But the loud-mouths and misinformed could not be persuaded to consider any other viewpoint.
A classic was after I'd explained that town councillors were volunteers and didn't get paid, but that borough councillors receive an allowance, some numpty continued to insist that I was lying and either taking a salary or brown envelopes. Nothing anyone else said could persuade him otherwise.
So, no, it's not just a US problem. It's a universal one.
Some people are stupid.
It's the same the world over.
What's the solution? Avoid social media other than to post holiday snaps or check what your friends are up to.
If you want a serious conversation about politics, science or anything else, find another way of doing it.
Whilst a cutout Spiderman is unlikely to cause such a distraction, the theory is sound. I drive past an electronic billboard on my way home, which blinks between different advertisments, and if you catch it at the right time in its cycle, what you see out of the corner of your eye is a flash of red and blue. That has the potential to cause an accident.
If I could show you the location of the pizza outlet you would see that the location and road layout in a small town centre location makes the likelihood of a dangerous distraction highly unlikely. It wasn't an animated or articulated image. No flashing lights or movement.
But sure, it wasn't as whacky a social media comment as others I could cite. I've also seen others more loopy than the instances I gave. They were simply ones that sprang to mind.
My point was simply that obdurate refusals to listen to other points of view aren't limited to the US or to Trump supporters but can be found everywhere and anywhere. What social media does is give these things a wider platform.
My Facebook therefore is a non-event and very strictly boundaried. After posting, I curate replies and delete anything too personal or controversial. If a post attracts too many volatile responses, I take it down right away. Facebook is increasingly an unskilled platform, so conversations (or civil arguments) aren't possible in a polarised, ignorant and alienated setting. From time to time I post pics of interesting plants, landscapes, apolitical local news, travel pics, brief book reviews or recommendations (where I have no direct involvement, no self-promotion). No 'train-smash' posts or emotional over-disclosing when I am upset or tired, no spicy gossip about mutual acquaintances, no complaints about former employers, no jokes or witty asides that might backfire, no unkindness. I never comment on complex political issues happening in places where I haven't lived or worked. Facebook for me is an uncontained environment because anyone can copy and paste text or images from a post so that personal info goes viral with no way of retrieving it, ensuring privacy or restriction. (And that is before we think about Google/Microsoft invasiveness or ads.) I don't share any other posts that might infringe copyright or be invasive of someone's privacy.
And when I respond to others' posts, it is blandly positive and supportive 99% of the time. What I have found is that if you post personal stuff on your daily life on Facebook, people who are distant acquaintances (and their more distant FB acquaintances) start feeling as if they know you very well and then offer unsolicited advice or pass moral judgments or pick fights. Most FB isn't an educational or receptive place for the exchange of ideas or experiences. There is no shared social skill-set or consensus or agreed rules for debate or sharing. Those posters I know who do engage and have a lively Facebook timeline, limit their readership to a handful of trusted close friends, usually no family.
I'm looking for ways to further insulate my online presence - which makes up the greater part of my social life - from the news of people and events I find disturbing but about which I can do nothing.
I only really use it to look at a couple of groups I'm part of (one around a particular hobby and one around a podcast).
Facebook: The Musical is still relevant…
https://youtu.be/Y2JhpNbe2Io?si=WDPr0AzuZEghpH5I
Oh, they have other videos via their other channels! They each do their own channel, though only Vijay's seems active with quite a few AVByte-style videos (the latest one is from a month ago!).
https://www.youtube.com/@PixelPlayhouse/videos
Antonius' channel is less active, though it looks like he's still doing stuff, just not so much on YouTube.
https://www.youtube.com/@antoniusnazareth/videos
(I don't think they've had a falling out or anything.)
WHERE WE LOVE GOD, THE SECOND AMENDMENT AND OUR NEIGHBOR
(Go Badgers)*
*Referring to the local high school
Another sign seen later
Our hosts were very conservative. We just smiled and changed the subject whenever they tried to bring up Trump.
Yikes, yikes, yikes. Can I ask what state? (I’m in Florida, with our own Trump Mini-Me, Governor DeSantis. Pray for us!!)
I've always thought that some enterprising Florida drag queen should start using the stage name Rhonda Santis.
Umm, I had to remind myself too.
They did!
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100082947523028&mibextid=LQQJ4d