Ship of Fools: St Mary’s, Old Hunstanton, Norfolk, England

The Mystery Worshipper

Ship of Fools: St Mary’s, Old Hunstanton, Norfolk, England

Singing hymns to a recording of the church organ, with jackdaws singing along in the roof

Read the full Mystery Worshipper report here

Box Pew

Thanks for the report Frollo. I have passed this church from time to time but not found it open. I see this benefice has no fewer than nine churches, mostly handsome and spacious medieval structures. Thats a lot of pews to fill and many roofs to keep weathertight and jackdaw proof. I hope they find someone a new priest with loads of energy !

Spike

“Communion was taken standing, the celebrant dipping the wafer into the wine before handing it over.”

I’m disappointed to see that this horrible practice is still in place in some places

Box Pew

In London dipping (intinction) was ruled out firmly by bishops letter during the post Covid pandemic period—as the communion in-one-kind-only rule was relaxed. I think the public health argument was that contaminated fingers are more likely to taint the wine than lips are the rim of the chalice. That's beyond my expertise but the Bishop of London was formerly the Chief Nursing Officer for the UK, so presumably up to date with the epidemiology of chalice infection. Surely, the same science would apply in Norfolk?

Puzzler

Doesn’t that potential contamination only apply if several communicants do the dipping? If just the priest, the risk is surely no greater than communion in one kind?

Amanda B Reckondwyth

What does the priest do with the host after dipping it? Does he place it back in the hands of the communicant, or does he place it on the communicant's tongue? If the latter, then he runs the risk of contaminating his fingers with the communicant's saliva.

Bishops Finger

Spike wrote: »

“Communion was taken standing, the celebrant dipping the wafer into the wine before handing it over.”

I’m disappointed to see that this horrible practice is still in place in some places

So am I.

One or two at Our Place used to intinct (pre-Covid), but FatherInCharge forbade it very quickly indeed. AFAIK, it is still discouraged, and those who once intincted have become accustomed to receiving the host only.

Frollo

The intincted wafer was placed into my hand. I've only come across this a couple of times before, and as far as I know it's not diocesan policy. Personally I much appreciate a good swig from the common cup.

Amanda B Reckondwyth

Frollo wrote: »

Personally I much appreciate a good swig from the common cup.

Miss Amanda prefers a dainty wee sip.

Alan29

Intinction is a strange interpretation of the very clear instruction to "Take, drink ....."

angloid

I have only encountered this strange practice a couple of times (both post-covid). The most recently when people seemed to have no difficulty shaking hands effusively with each other during the Peace, but came over all hygiene-conscious at communion. I was the guest presider on that occasion so I couldn't do anything about it unfortunately.

Our own practice was communion in one kind during the pandemic, until we were assured that sharing the chalice offered little risk. Now, maybe one or two people receive in one kind and everyone else takes the chalice (though there are a couple of 'dippers' who it is diplomatically difficult to dissuade).

Amanda B Reckondwyth

It's hard to believe that Jesus would allow disease to be transmitted via his Most Precious Blood.

Box Pew

I adopted intinction when someone suggested it 'as I wore a beard'. I think the notion that I represented additional risk was a deeply beardist view. But I went along with it to soothe the anxious and practiced intinction for many years until I was audibly told off at the communion rail by one stickler priest as I moved to dip; he has now been made a flying bishop and I have not returned to that church.

Nick Tamen

Alan29 wrote: »

Intinction is a strange interpretation of the very clear instruction to "Take, drink ....."

Well, one could also say little wafers of flour and water is a somewhat strange interpretation of “bread.”

Amanda B Reckondwyth

Box Pew wrote: »

I . . . practiced intinction for many years until I was audibly told off at the communion rail by one stickler priest as I moved to dip.

I once began to intinct but the eucharistic minister literally yanked the host out of my fingers and gave me a dirty look.

Alan29

Nick Tamen wrote: »

Alan29 wrote: »

Intinction is a strange interpretation of the very clear instruction to "Take, drink ....."

Well, one could also say little wafers of flour and water is a somewhat strange interpretation of “bread.”

Indeed.

Nenya

Clears Hostly Throat

Let's swing this thread back to focus on the report itself and take the discussion about the rights and wrongs of intinction elsewhere, please.

Nenya, Mystery Worshipper Host

Enoch

Amanda B Reckondwyth wrote: »

What does the priest do with the host after dipping it? Does he place it back in the hands of the communicant, or does he place it on the communicant's tongue? If the latter, then he runs the risk of contaminating his fingers with the communicant's saliva.

I have never encountered placing the host directly onto the communicant's tongue in the Church of England. With all apologies to Catholics but to CofE eyes, sticking your tongue out like that just looks alien and odd - disrespectful and undignified. I'm not that familiar with Roman Catholic practice but I associate it with pre-Vatican II RCs and those that hanker still be back there.

Bishops Finger

Back to the MW, and the Reporter was concerned that there were no young people in the congregation, fearing for the church's future. A valid point, but I wonder to what extent the age range of those present typified the demographics of the parish?

angloid

Bishops Finger wrote: »

Back to the MW, and the Reporter was concerned that there were no young people in the congregation, fearing for the church's future. A valid point, but I wonder to what extent the age range of those present typified the demographics of the parish?

Yes I wonder. Many commentators are predicting the collapse of the C of E based on the state of rural churches; however that only matches the collapse of services like post offices and schools and public transport in rural areas, partly caused by and partly causing the takeover of villages either by wealthy retired people or younger professional people with jobs in the cities and no investment in their local areas. It's a massive problem.

Of course urban churches have their own problems and no-one is suggesting that, apart from a few exceptions, church life is thriving anywhere. But from my limited experience urban congregations represent a wider demographic, and there are signs of growth.

angloid

Enoch wrote: »

Amanda B Reckondwyth wrote: »

What does the priest do with the host after dipping it? Does he place it back in the hands of the communicant, or does he place it on the communicant's tongue? If the latter, then he runs the risk of contaminating his fingers with the communicant's saliva.

I have never encountered placing the host directly onto the communicant's tongue in the Church of England. With all apologies to Catholics but to CofE eyes, sticking your tongue out like that just looks alien and odd - disrespectful and undignified. I'm not that familiar with Roman Catholic practice but I associate it with pre-Vatican II RCs and those that hanker still be back there.

I think you are right to associate the practice with pre-Vatican 2 Roman Catholics, and many of those Anglicans who felt impelled to follow every detail of RC practice tended to follow suit, although I don't know of any parishes where communicants were all expected to do this. Many if not most RCs (it often depends on nationality as some countries were slow to take up the practice) have been receiving the host in their hands for many years.

AFAIK, since the Covid pandemic, communion on the tongue has been forbidden in the RCC owing the risk of the priest's fingers conveying infection. It was also forbidden by the C of E authorities, but English Anglicans have a long history of ignoring episcopal directions. However the messy, and to my mind irreverent, compromise of dunking a host and placing the sticky mess on the communicant's hand doesn't seem much of an improvement.