The Deep State

I'm being DUMB I'm sure... but on Sunday afternoon, 2pm, I just came off the M69 on to the A5 N and a police wagon stopped me. The traffic built up behind for a minute, it must have rippled up the '69. Then a squadron of police cars appeared from the A5 S followed, alternately, by three or four huge military transports with containers on the back, interspersed by police trucks the like of which I'd never seen before, with another squadron of police cars at the tail. They must have gone on the M69 N.

WHAT was going on? What was being moved? From where to where?

And why invoke the DUMB? This most probably came from a surface base. There are underground command centres for sure. Former RAF Strike Command for one. Under the porous chalk of Wiltshire? When I was in Gibraltar, 2.6 sq. mi. footprint, I was told it has a thousand miles of roads. London has 15 miles of road per square mile. So Gib could manage 40 in its footprint. 25 layers. Call it 100 miles of narrow roads. Just 10 layers. Including over a thousand feet up in the Rock. And a thousand down. Safe from an H bomb. 100 feet a layer. No problem. Everyone knows about the vast non-public London Underground.

I remember New Scientist, a quarter century ago, doing superb failed debunks. One was on anomalous radio traffic. In my fevered false memories I remember correlation with the aforementioned secret railway. Especially beneath Hampstead. Stories about RAF Gaydon on Edge Hill; trains playing the shell game with nukes to other hills under Russian satellites in the 60s. (Similar to a game I saw the Americans play with missile launchers on the Munich-Stuttgart autobahn 45 years ago. Scared the bejaysus out of me.)

It was seeing a very good old Silent Witness, with a wrecked underground nuclear train that started this coalescence. All conspiracist nonsense I'm sure.
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Comments

  • Trident warheads, Burghfield to Coulport. Semi regular routing for those convoys.

    There’s an eastern route and a western route. When they cross between the two for whatever reason they go past where you were held up.

    The rest of the post…. Where to start?
  • People really believe the stuff linked to DUMB above? :O Then again, that’s not far from Qanon stuff.
  • ChastMastrChastMastr Shipmate
    edited August 2024
    Martin54 wrote: »
    I'm being DUMB I'm sure... but on Sunday afternoon, 2pm, I just came off the M69 on to the A5 N and a police wagon stopped me. The traffic built up behind for a minute, it must have rippled up the '69. Then a squadron of police cars appeared from the A5 S followed, alternately, by three or four huge military transports with containers on the back, interspersed by police trucks the like of which I'd never seen before, with another squadron of police cars at the tail. They must have gone on the M69 N.

    WHAT was going on? What was being moved? From where to where?

    And why invoke the DUMB? This most probably came from a surface base. There are underground command centres for sure. Former RAF Strike Command for one. Under the porous chalk of Wiltshire? When I was in Gibraltar, 2.6 sq. mi. footprint, I was told it has a thousand miles of roads. London has 15 miles of road per square mile. So Gib could manage 40 in its footprint. 25 layers. Call it 100 miles of narrow roads. Just 10 layers. Including over a thousand feet up in the Rock. And a thousand down. Safe from an H bomb. 100 feet a layer. No problem. Everyone knows about the vast non-public London Underground.

    I remember New Scientist, a quarter century ago, doing superb failed debunks. One was on anomalous radio traffic. In my fevered false memories I remember correlation with the aforementioned secret railway. Especially beneath Hampstead. Stories about RAF Gaydon on Edge Hill; trains playing the shell game with nukes to other hills under Russian satellites in the 60s. (Similar to a game I saw the Americans play with missile launchers on the Munich-Stuttgart autobahn 45 years ago. Scared the bejaysus out of me.)

    It was seeing a very good old Silent Witness, with a wrecked underground nuclear train that started this coalescence. All conspiracist nonsense I'm sure.

    Given what the DUMB link goes to, and that nothing you mention really connects with “ a conspiracy theory that children being trafficked by the Deep State are being held in secret military bases underground. Conspiracy theorists believe earthquakes are caused by members of the military freeing children from these bases and arresting members of the Deep State,” indeed, why bring that in?

    Removed duplicate quote. BroJames, Purgatory Host
  • Martin54Martin54 Suspended
    Thanks @betjemaniac. Had to be nukes. And they'll be pretty deep at either end? In my amazement I lost count, so could have been 6. And no, of course I don't give conspiracist 'beliefs' the time of day (don't worry @ChastMastr!). It's just the idea of Deep Underground Military Bases. Technically advanced states would have to have them surely? Not just control centres. What about the thin end of the conspiracist wedge stuff? Secret London, and other, Underground (on the radio as per New Scientist)? Silent Witness episodes 139-140, 'Legacy'? Just X-File paranoid fantasy? And surface rail maneuvers in S. Warwickshire? (I saw the plume of this. And was deeply nuclear paranoid for decades. Still can be! It spawned my Apocalyptic belief 'system').
  • Not sure why we need a conspiracy, surely everyone knows there are nuclear weapon silos and heavily policed movements of military equipment.
  • Martin54Martin54 Suspended
    The point is, between those, what lies beneath?
  • Martin54 wrote: »
    The point is, between those, what lies beneath?

    Beneath the silos? Earth Martin, and eventually magma.
  • ChastMastrChastMastr Shipmate
    edited August 2024
    Martin54 wrote: »
    The point is, between those, what lies beneath?

    Beneath the silos? Earth Martin, and eventually magma.

    Cannibalistic Humanoid Underground Dwellers? (I’ve never seen that movie nor its sequel… more here: )

    https://youtu.be/3Bw1xcORWGE?si=KV5CeOjGoZUdoQbW
  • Martin54Martin54 Suspended
    Martin54 wrote: »
    The point is, between those, what lies beneath?

    Beneath the silos? Earth Martin, and eventually magma.

    Conceptually between the conspiracist nonsense and nuclear weapons stores and active command centres (like the radio active Hampstead one off the Underground).
  • Of course past the magma you get to the center of the Earth, where you can find dinosaurs and stuff.
  • Martin54Martin54 Suspended
    Martin54 wrote: »
    The point is, between those, what lies beneath?

    Beneath the silos? Earth Martin, and eventually magma.

    The UK doesn't have launch silos. France did. Targeting Germany. Up until '96.
  • KendelKendel Shipmate
    edited August 2024
    Martin54 wrote: »
    The point is, between those, what lies beneath?

    Do you suspect you witnessed a portage of sorts, then?
    Sorry. I don't think military very often. Except when the occassional heliocopter goes over our property here among the farms....
  • Martin54 wrote: »
    Martin54 wrote: »
    The point is, between those, what lies beneath?

    Beneath the silos? Earth Martin, and eventually magma.

    The UK doesn't have launch silos. France did. Targeting Germany. Up until '96.

    Right, and I assumed you were responding to the previous comment which mentioned them, rather than free associating.

    There's no shortage of serious investigative works that you could look at if it's an actual concern.
  • Martin54 wrote: »
    Martin54 wrote: »
    The point is, between those, what lies beneath?

    Beneath the silos? Earth Martin, and eventually magma.

    The UK doesn't have launch silos. France did. Targeting Germany. Up until '96.

    Right, and I assumed you were responding to the previous comment which mentioned them, rather than free associating.

    There's no shortage of serious investigative works that you could look at if it's an actual concern.

    Exactly, and the reality is pretty mundane. The subject of nuclear weapons obviously has people for and against, but the day to day reality while the rights and wrongs are debated is mundane rather than James Bond.

    I couldn't have been a submariner on the trident force. Aside from the one moment of terminal excitement, which no one in their right mind wants to happen, it's an incredibly tedious existence.
  • Martin54Martin54 Suspended
    edited August 2024
    Martin54 wrote: »
    Martin54 wrote: »
    The point is, between those, what lies beneath?

    Beneath the silos? Earth Martin, and eventually magma.

    The UK doesn't have launch silos. France did. Targeting Germany. Up until '96.

    Right, and I assumed you were responding to the previous comment which mentioned them, rather than free associating.

    There's no shortage of serious investigative works that you could look at if it's an actual concern.

    No concern. Just fascination. I remember New Scientist, again, a quarter century ago reporting on how the SBS tested UK nuclear power station security. The first one station new about it was when they dropped in to the control room. As you say, mundane. No Commander Bond shenanigans. One traumatized manager had to retire on ill health. Never recovered.

    So, no one can comment on the secret London Underground?
  • Why do you think that anyone on this website knows anything about this "conspiracy". Even if there is anything secret to uncover, the chances of anyone knowing anything and being willing to share it here are next to zero.

    It feels like you've tried posting on the /r/conspiracy subreddit and by some magical computer trickery have instead posted it on a forum where people admire the colour of rail carriages.

  • Martin54Martin54 Suspended
    What conspiracy? Just wondered about people's sightings. Especially on the Underground. And there are people on this site who know stuff. On this thread. Even I've been security vetted. Had a couple of interviews for a very interesting job.
  • I give up.
  • KoF wrote: »
    a forum where people admire the colour of rail carriages.

    though obviously you've painted a target on yourself there. Rail*way* carriages. This matters. ;)

  • peasepease Tech Admin
    Martin54 wrote: »
    The point is, between those, what lies beneath?
    Martin54 wrote: »
    Conceptually between the conspiracist nonsense and nuclear weapons stores and active command centres (like the radio active Hampstead one off the Underground).
    The safe? The hidden? The unclean? The devolved?
  • It is impossible to comment on the secret London Underground.

    Why? Because it's secret.
  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    Accessed via a junction at Mornington Crescent.

  • You may think that. I couldn't possibly comment.
  • Martin54 wrote: »
    Martin54 wrote: »
    Martin54 wrote: »
    The point is, between those, what lies beneath?

    Beneath the silos? Earth Martin, and eventually magma.

    The UK doesn't have launch silos. France did. Targeting Germany. Up until '96.

    Right, and I assumed you were responding to the previous comment which mentioned them, rather than free associating.

    There's no shortage of serious investigative works that you could look at if it's an actual concern.

    No concern. Just fascination. I remember New Scientist, again, a quarter century ago reporting on how the SBS tested UK nuclear power station security.

    There's always back issues of Lobster Magazine.
  • KendelKendel Shipmate
    I am finding information on formerly secret underground shelters that will be turned into a museum in 2027.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/27/world/europe/london-tunnels-tourism.html?unlocked_article_code=1._k0.m_XN.cc3HeJPwkp20&smid=url-share

    Probably not at all what you are looking for.
  • KendelKendel Shipmate
    More in the same useless vein....

    Inside London's New Subterranean Urban Farm

    July 1, 2015 | CityLab (USA)

    Author/Byline: Feargus O'Sullivan | Section: News

    London's newest urban farm proves that with the right equipment, you can grow food just about anywhere. The 1,805-square-foot carbon-neutral project has one of the strangest locations of any city horticulture project. It's located 115 feet below a busy South London street, inside a sprawling World War Two air raid shelter. The new farm, run by the company Growing Underground, opened its doors to the press for the first time this week and will release its first crops onto the market later this month.
    Continued.
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited August 2024
    There's quite a lot of Odd Stuff beneath modern-day London, not just the Underground railways, whether operational or disused...

    I'm intrigued by the idea of a radio-active bit just off the Underground near Hampstead. Can you give any further information @Martin54 ?

  • Martin54Martin54 Suspended
    edited August 2024
    Old Stuff, indeed @Bishops Finger. Quatermass and the Pit anyone? A fine wee 'ammer Arse er Rorrer (Trans. Hammer House of Horror).

    As for the Hampstead numbers station, or whatever it was... is, I'd have to get a New Scientist subscription and plumb the archives. I'll try a ham radio forum first. Believe me, despite my failing memory, The Truth Is Out There! In the NS archives. I've never forgotten the story or series style.

    Tip o' the iceberg @Kendel!
  • There's quite a lot of Odd Stuff beneath modern-day London, not just the Underground railways, whether operational or disused...

    I'm intrigued by the idea of a radio-active bit just off the Underground near Hampstead. Can you give any further information @Martin54 ?

    Just be careful--one wrong turn and you might run into the labyrinth where the goblins live, or blunder into a cavern with statues of the Seven Deadly Enemies of Man, or...
  • HarryCHHarryCH Shipmate
    This is an interesting use of "deep state" to refer to something physically underground and not merely clandestine. The nasty connotation seems to be present either way.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    edited August 2024
    What lies beneath the silos? Hell, man. Unless you are an Eskimo north of the Artic Circle. Their Hell is in the sky.

    Of course, I do not believe in a literal hell, but that is not the issue here.
  • KendelKendel Shipmate
    Martin54 wrote: »
    1) I'd have to get a New Scientist subscription and plumb the archives.

    2) The Truth Is Out There! In the NS archives. I've never forgotten the story or series style.

    3) Tip o' the iceberg @Kendel!

    1) No you don't. You need to take a research field trip!
    Your local university library has it in print back to 1956. Their databases are too recent I suspect. Mine goes back to 2002.
    It was indexed in the U.S. in "Chemical Abstracts." Not sure about over there.
    They give library cards to the public.
    It's a good idea to email the reference desk or call and ask about where to find New Scientist (Also New Scientist and Science Journal; they merged, but it's all in the same library catalog record).
    In your email or call, you can ask what index you should use to navigate.

    2) Of course it is! Now get yourself to the library!

    3) Obviously. I hadn't gotten to anything involving the shunting of human waste. One must dig deeper, I expect.
  • Martin54Martin54 Suspended
    As Einstein proved, @Kendel, t=$. I don't have enough of either, but I have less tangible t than $. But that is superb news, thank you, that if I could be *rsed I could spend a day (that's one lot of margin for a little utility) at Leicester Uni. I need frangible t and for that I must pay.
  • What are you talking about?
  • Secret tunnel under Whitehall:
    https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/more-on-the-secret-tunnel-under-whitehall-1760/

    Also, people who work at St Thomas's Hospital have long believed there is a tunnel under the Thames from the hospital to the Houses of Parliament -but I don't know anyone who has actually seen it!
  • Martin54 wrote: »
    As Einstein proved, @Kendel, t=$. I don't have enough of either, but I have less tangible t than $. But that is superb news, thank you, that if I could be *rsed I could spend a day (that's one lot of margin for a little utility) at Leicester Uni. I need frangible t and for that I must pay.

    I assume that t=$ means “time is money.” What is frangible (brittle) time, in that case? And why would you have to pay for it? 🤷
  • DoublethinkDoublethink Admin, 8th Day Host
    I’m going to remind everyone on this thread, once, that posts should be comprehensible in order to facilitate discussion.

    Doublethink, Admin
  • There are loads of structures underground in cities built for all sorts of weird and sometimes unknown reasons. Think the Williamson tunnels in Liverpool (I think they were featured in an episode of Doctor Who).
  • There's the labyrinth of tunnels under Box Hill, used for WW2 arms storage ... and, so people have said, Britain's strategic reserve of old steam locomotives (for when the oil runs out).

    Er ... no.
  • KoF wrote: »
    What are you talking about?

    He doesn't have the spare time to actually look at the subject which purportedly fascinates him.
  • Alan Cresswell Alan Cresswell Admin, 8th Day Host
    London, like any other city, has a lot of underground structures. Some are very well known. Many are known but not advertised (in some cases because you wouldn't want people to wander into unsafe locations), old tube lines and stations, there's an underground mail transport system (now defunct), various cellars and basements that have been bricked off, and, yes, some legacy defence infrastructure.

    I very much doubt there's anything radioactive in those lesser known structures, beyond possibly a bit of radon accumulation (but, not very much as the natural soil and rock of London isn't very rich in uranium). Some hospital radiotherapy sources were housed in basements where they could be more easily shielded, and it's possible one has been left there forgotten and unattended - but entirely safe.

    I couldn't comment on active military underground facilities, by the very nature of such things no one advertises to the potential enemy where your backup command and control systems are. We don't have billboards in bright colours saying "Secret Bunker this way" ... except in Fife, of course.
  • I couldn't comment on active military underground facilities, by the very nature of such things no one advertises to the potential enemy where your backup command and control systems are. We don't have billboards in bright colours saying "Secret Bunker this way" ... except in Fife, of course.

    Though you can piece together the sort of thing it used to be from a lot of open source information these days. The plans for Burlington (continuation of government bunker in Wiltshire) were as bleak as anything Ballard or Shute could come up with.

    One detail that has always stuck in my mind, bearing in mind we're talking about the 70s and 80s here, is that they had a whole minuted discussion on the need for a 'motherly' figure to be recruited and given a berth in the bunker, so that all the male (and it was mostly going to be men) staff would have someone to cry to about their lost/vaporised families and the end of the world outside the doors.
  • Martin54Martin54 Suspended
    Och no, I'm not suggesting radioactivity, but active radio, as in my wordplay here.
  • I do miss the frisson of excitement you could get from listening to Numbers Stations - like you were listening to something a bit naughty. I think the Lincolnshire Poacher and Cherry Ripe were still running well into the 2000s.
  • Baptist TrainfanBaptist Trainfan Shipmate
    edited August 2024
    There's an underground mail transport system (now defunct).
    I visited it, including bits not usually visitable, with a school group c1970. It was fascinating, like a giant model railway. Part of it is open to the public (and rideable-on!) today.
    We don't have billboards in bright colours saying "Secret Bunker this way" ... except in Fife, of course.
    There is another one at Kelvedon Hatch in Essex.

  • FirenzeFirenze Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    Edinburgh of course works its underground for every tourist bawbee - but there's no mystery about the various cellars and a bit of street (and no ghosts either tbh). Liberton Cove otoh is genuinely mysterious.
  • I remember seeing the really spooky Inchindown oil tanks on TV some time back - huge underground tanks with (allegedly) the longest reverberation in the world!
  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    I do miss the frisson of excitement you could get from listening to Numbers Stations - like you were listening to something a bit naughty. I think the Lincolnshire Poacher and Cherry Ripe were still running well into the 2000s.
    Ever since my comment about secret underground tunnels being accessed from a junction near Mornington Cresent I've been fantasising that all these years those involved in I'm Sorry I Haven't a Clue have been using the game of Mornington Crescent to pass on knowledge to those cognoscenti who have deciphered the code about how to get into this secret world. Those aren't just random stations. It's an attempt to pass on things that 'they' are trying to hide from you, covert messages for those who have ears to hear, about the Deep State, Davos, Covid vaccines, Roswell, the Bermuda Triangle, George Soros, the CIA, chemtrails, who really shot JFK, Freemasons the lot.

    Next time the programme is on, just listen. You'll know.

    Warning specially for @Martin54. This is a joke! And for mystified shipmates outside the UK, this is what I'm talking about.

  • Enoch wrote: »
    I do miss the frisson of excitement you could get from listening to Numbers Stations - like you were listening to something a bit naughty. I think the Lincolnshire Poacher and Cherry Ripe were still running well into the 2000s.
    Ever since my comment about secret underground tunnels being accessed from a junction near Mornington Cresent I've been fantasising that all these years those involved in I'm Sorry I Haven't a Clue have been using the game of Mornington Crescent to pass on knowledge to those cognoscenti who have deciphered the code about how to get into this secret world. Those aren't just random stations. It's an attempt to pass on things that 'they' are trying to hide from you, covert messages for those who have ears to hear, about the Deep State, Davos, Covid vaccines, Roswell, the Bermuda Triangle, George Soros, the CIA, chemtrails, who really shot JFK, Freemasons the lot.

    Next time the programme is on, just listen. You'll know.

    Warning specially for @Martin54. This is a joke! And for mystified shipmates outside the UK, this is what I'm talking about.

    Trust no one George. Everyone Lies.
  • Baptist TrainfanBaptist Trainfan Shipmate
    edited August 2024
    But is that final statement itself a lie, designed to put us off the scent?
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