...
From where I stand, the nature of the problem is, bluntly, that you are looking at life (and life as a follower of Christ) from the perspective of avoiding coercive relationships.
Not sure I see why that is a problem. Among other things, we are discussing the nature of love with a capital L, and a refusal to coerce is surely one major characteristic of Love—and thus of God.
To be clear, my experiences of being overwhelmed by God take place in an existing relationship where I’ve already consented to that sort of thing. If I can use the analogy, we’re married, and happily so. For God to overwhelm people who do not have that relationship and consent in place is to fail to respect the freedom and dignity of the person—And that’s not a loving thing to do.
There are many things that Love might refuse to do.
Not all of us have been afflicted by, or even particularly bothered by, coercive relationships. The question of consent isn't always a big issue. Those of us who consented, easily and naturally, to being overwhelmed, but were only ever underwhelmed, or even eventually appalled, where do we go from here?
@Martin, is there a word missing here? I cannot make sense of this sentence.
Sorry, it refers back to 'the most beautiful part of the story'? The Pericope Adulterae, with which Nick is most familiar, cut down by Bart Ehrman following on from it being flagged up for fifteen hundred years.
@martin54 - why couldn't you have said "Because of the Pericope Adulterae, the most beautiful part of the story, which Ehrman showed to be likely a later interpolation"?
Then we'd have understood without having to play cryptic crosswords again.
You're not writing prog rock song lyrics here.
I hope I'm not causing @KarlLB and other prog rock fans any offence, but this is one of the main reasons I'm not into Prog.
Perhaps Martin54 used to write lyrics for Gene-snores, Jethro Dull or Pink Floyd ...
(Apologies, some Tull is ok and Floyd are historically important ... .
...
From where I stand, the nature of the problem is, bluntly, that you are looking at life (and life as a follower of Christ) from the perspective of avoiding coercive relationships.
Not sure I see why that is a problem. Among other things, we are discussing the nature of love with a capital L, and a refusal to coerce is surely one major characteristic of Love—and thus of God.
To be clear, my experiences of being overwhelmed by God take place in an existing relationship where I’ve already consented to that sort of thing. If I can use the analogy, we’re married, and happily so. For God to overwhelm people who do not have that relationship and consent in place is to fail to respect the freedom and dignity of the person—And that’s not a loving thing to do.
There are many things that Love might refuse to do.
Not all of us have been afflicted by, or even particularly bothered by, coercive relationships. The question of consent isn't always a big issue. Those of us who consented, easily and naturally, to being overwhelmed, but were only ever underwhelmed, or even eventually appalled, where do we go from here?
I brought this particular issue up because it was what Martin was demanding of God, not because it’s the only issue out there. If you want to discuss a different one, sure, we can do that.
Host hat on
This discussion is starting to fail under the weight of its own tangents. I’m taking the view that the original OP has been thoroughly responded to. If anyone wants to take one of the tangents and plant it into the soil of a new thread to see if it will thrive then you are very welcome to do that. I am, however, declaring this thread closed. Host hat off
BroJames[, Purgatory Host
Comments
Not all of us have been afflicted by, or even particularly bothered by, coercive relationships. The question of consent isn't always a big issue. Those of us who consented, easily and naturally, to being overwhelmed, but were only ever underwhelmed, or even eventually appalled, where do we go from here?
I hope I'm not causing @KarlLB and other prog rock fans any offence, but this is one of the main reasons I'm not into Prog.
Perhaps Martin54 used to write lyrics for Gene-snores, Jethro Dull or Pink Floyd ...
(Apologies, some Tull is ok and Floyd are historically important ...
I'll get me coat ...
Oh, wait, that's happened already ...
I brought this particular issue up because it was what Martin was demanding of God, not because it’s the only issue out there. If you want to discuss a different one, sure, we can do that.
This discussion is starting to fail under the weight of its own tangents. I’m taking the view that the original OP has been thoroughly responded to. If anyone wants to take one of the tangents and plant it into the soil of a new thread to see if it will thrive then you are very welcome to do that. I am, however, declaring this thread closed.
Host hat off
BroJames[, Purgatory Host